Why The Subspace Emmissary Got It Right...

[Mysteltainn]

I dont know why you guys take di-dara posts seriously at all. Maybe he has a mental impairment or something, idk, but every thing he says is very self righteous, biased, rude, condescending towards opposite views, and he refuses to let anyone else have their way. Hes literally a tumblr nerd or at least comes off as it, and unless you guys are just giving him recognition because he gets bullied irl and you want him to feel special about himself, then you guys should stop ackowledging him. When he says stuff like real nintendo fan and how its every smash fans wet dream (lol you still have those?) I thought it would be obvious how unworthy of credibility he is.

And boom goes the dynamite! I think he just said what the whole community is thinking though, lol.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I dont know why you guys take di-dara posts seriously at all. Maybe he has a mental impairment or something, idk, but every thing he says is very self righteous, biased, rude, condescending towards opposite views, and he refuses to let anyone else have their way. Hes literally a tumblr nerd or at least comes off as it, and unless you guys are just giving him recognition because he gets bullied irl and you want him to feel special about himself, then you guys should stop ackowledging him. When he says stuff like real nintendo fan and how its every smash fans wet dream (lol you still have those?) I thought it would be obvious how unworthy of credibility he is.

Not needed, you don't need to insult him. And using mental disabilities as an insult is disrespectful and unintelligent.There's no need to start a ruckus when it's been settled by many already. Besides, you sink to a level lower than him by retaliating and continuing unneeded argument.

I'm not mod, but I'd say drop it and post about the thread and not about users opinons.

 

[D-idara]

I dont know why you guys take di-dara posts seriously at all. Maybe he has a mental impairment or something, idk, but every thing he says is very self righteous, biased, rude, condescending towards opposite views, and he refuses to let anyone else have their way. Hes literally a tumblr nerd or at least comes off as it, and unless you guys are just giving him recognition because he gets bullied irl and you want him to feel special about himself, then you guys should stop ackowledging him. When he says stuff like real nintendo fan and how its every smash fans wet dream (lol you still have those?) I thought it would be obvious how unworthy of credibility he is.

I think you're the one with mental impairment. I'm just fine and I don't get bullied IRL...and if you really don't understand what I mean by every Smash Fans' wet dream, then I'm done with you. People like you should just be eliminated from existence, especially since you seem to have created an account just for the sake of insulting me...very dignified. I don't refuse to let anyone else have their way, I just want to have mine.

And boom goes the dynamite! I think he just said what the whole community is thinking though, lol.

Siding with outburst-happy, ghost-account-creating flamers? Very dignified, I'm stating my opinion, I'm just louder and ruder about it than most people.

 

[Curious Villager]

Hey guys settle down a little, don't go insulting each other please.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hey guys...

Let's not insult each other...

That goes for both sides...

I'm just louder and ruder about it than most people.

That's not something to brag about....

 

[D-idara]

Hey guys...

Let's not insults each other...

That goes for both sides...

That's not something to brag about....

He was the one insulting...and why should I be ashamed of standing up for my opinions?
I already stated that I understand the reason for removing SSE on this game, and that there's legitimate (Although highly subjective) reasons for people to dislike it, I just hate how 90% of the community can express their extremely rude, extremely uncalled-for opinions about the SSE and Brawl, and I get infraction points for doing so...the fact that some people use pretty words doesn't make it any less insulting.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He was the one insulting...and why should I be ashamed of standing up for my opinions?
I already stated that I understand the reason for removing SSE on this game, and that there's legitimate (Although highly subjective) reasons for people to dislike it, I just hate how 90% of the community can express their extremely rude, extremely uncalled-for opinions about the SSE and Brawl, and I get infraction points for doing so...the fact that some people use pretty words doesn't make it any less insulting.

I said everyone.

Not just you...

Don't get all defensive.

 

[D-idara]

I just want to discuss Smash :I That's what these forums are for, right?

 

[Baskerville]

Yeah, and neither is telling another person to go kill themselves over an opinion.

 

[Big-Cat]

I just want to discuss Smash :I That's what these forums are for, right?

Yet no need for being angry at a disagreement. If anything, you could use some lessons in etiquette.

 

[RelaxAlax]

He was the one insulting...and why should I be ashamed of standing up for my opinions?
I already stated that I understand the reason for removing SSE on this game, and that there's legitimate (Although highly subjective) reasons for people to dislike it, I just hate how 90% of the community can express their extremely rude, extremely uncalled-for opinions about the SSE and Brawl, and I get infraction points for doing so...the fact that some people use pretty words doesn't make it any less insulting.

Why do people go to mental impairments for insults -_-
Maybe if someone you cared about suffered from it you'd be more sensitive to the subject. I digress.

Most people didn't express rude opinions, just opinions. You view them as rude because they contradict your view, although I do get what you mean by the "pretty words." And I'm sure the vast majority didn't attack you directly, just the argument at hand. You should have expected it coming.

Your point is made and most don't agree. Just accept it, it shouldn't bother you. I admire your strength in opinion and not being swayed if it's any consolation.

 

[Curious Villager]

It's okay to express your opinion. Just try to avoid insulting others just because they disagree with you. This isn't only directed at you D-idara, this goes for everyone.

 

[Trick or Treat]

I liked SSE, though I do think it could've been executed a lot better. Also, maybe integrate more elements from the various Nintendo series as opposed to these random creatures.

But I liked it.

Melee's adventure mode was boring (sorry for not being a Melee fangirl), and had even less substance. As far as I'm concerned, it was just a random adventure that meant nothing, one which you could do with every character. I liked the 'story' that SSE had, and I definitely wish there was something like it in SSB4, but polished up a bit.

HOWEVER. If taking out an SSE-style mode means more characters/stages, improved gameplay, and an earlier release date, then I'm all for it. For me, Smash Bros is still primarily about the VS mode.

 

[D-idara]

Why do people go to mental impairments for insults -_-
Maybe if someone you cared about suffered from it you'd be more sensitive to the subject. I digress.

Most people didn't express rude opinions, just opinions. You view them as rude because they contradict your view, although I do get what you mean by the "pretty words." And I'm sure the vast majority didn't attack you directly, just the argument at hand. You should have expected it coming.

Your point is made and most don't agree. Just accept it, it shouldn't bother you. I admire your strength in opinion and not being swayed if it's any consolation.

-_- I have a mentally-impaired familiar, and that's the kind of outburst a mentally-impaired person would have, going so far as to create a new account just to insult someone because they stated their opinion? I view those opinions as rude because most of them not only contradicted my view, but also made pretty violent statements about how it was 'crappy' or 'awful' or 'terrible' or about how could anyone like it?

Of course, there were some people who made sense about something they didn't like about the SSE (Pretty rare on these boards). These people want no SSE so they can get more multiplayer content, and they sometimes express that they don't want the game to have the better of both worlds...that makes absolutely no sense! Why can't the game please everyone? Why does it only have to please one group of people?

 

[Mysteltainn]

Siding with outburst-happy, ghost-account-creating flamers? Very dignified, I'm stating my opinion, I'm just louder and ruder about it than most people.

For what it's worth, my apologies. I wasn't really insinuating you were mentally challenged, I was just agreeing with his idea that stating opinions that differ from yours seems hopeless and makes for bad conversation. Stating your opinion in a "louder and ruder" manner isn't going to help you very much, it is contagious negativity, similar to how positivity is also contagious. We understand you enjoyed the SSE, that's great. Many others have replied stating why they did or did not like it without coming across as being pushy or rude (telling people to kill themselves). This is called being formal, it certainly makes things easier.

 

[Trick or Treat]

Just gonna jump in here for a sec.

Of course, there were some people who made sense about something they didn't like about the SSE (Pretty rare on these boards). These people want no SSE so they can get more multiplayer content, and they sometimes express that they don't want the game to have the better of both worlds...that makes absolutely no sense! Why can't the game please everyone? Why does it only have to please one group of people?

But as long as a good single player mode take its place, why does it matter?

Like I said, I liked SSE a lot, but if taking it out means better multiplayer, and there's still a good form of single player in its place, then I wouldn't mind at all. Still get the best of both worlds.

 

[ThomasTheTrain]

To me single player just isn't worth it, the story mode at best would connect the characters but even that isn't really a big deal IMO. A lot of the characters in these games are from games we played as kids and the characters stories etc reflect that.

As a player Megaman is fun challenging and an original game but character development 15+ years later he's still super linear and *skin deep*. The bad guys are had cuz they're evil and they're evil because they do bad things...

Most Nintendo games have similar stuff and the good guys are always damn near perfectly good morality and character development in these games make them hard to connect too (excluding the nostalgic effect) and make for rather mediocre stories.

So at best ssb4 could connect 40 simplistic characters for the sake of nostalgia or it could make an actual good fighting game. And this by no means applies to all Nintendo series but it does apply to a lot of the older ones IMO.

Also if you want good story based games, Deus ex, metro 2033, fall out 2 and 3, and morrowind oblivion and to a degree Skyrim, and a lot of there games exist.

 

[Big-Cat]

If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

 

[Crocovile]

D-idara, there's nothing wrong with wanting both a story mode and a VS mode in the same game, the problem is how it was executed in Brawl.

Fact is, a lot of people just weren't satisfied with what they got, and with good reason. SSE took up alot of resources that could have been used elsewhere in the game, and still came up short. SSE had a lot of potential that it simply failed to use, and all the resources poured into SSE meant that the VS gameplay suffered for it.

I respect that you stand by your opinion of thinking SSE as something great, but please try to understand that for me and many others, it simply wasn't that great of an experience.

 

[PreacherDudeRox]

People who hated the SSE were just blowing things out of proportions. Cutscenes made me keep playing, actual gameplay wasn't perfect, but it was bearable, and the only clear negative about it all was the Great Maze. It WAS better than Melee's Adventure Mode in every way. The Co-Op did wonders for the mode, and the comparatively simple story was charming enough.

I can't say SSE was done perfectly, or it did its job for Brawl perfectly, but it certainly didn't do a terrible job at it. Simple as that: SSE wasn't that bad.

 

[D-idara]

To me single player just isn't worth it, the story mode at best would connect the characters but even that isn't really a big deal IMO. A lot of the characters in these games are from games we played as kids and the characters stories etc reflect that.

As a player Megaman is fun challenging and an original game but character development 15+ years later he's still super linear and *skin deep*. The bad guys are had cuz they're evil and they're evil because they do bad things...

Most Nintendo games have similar stuff and the good guys are always damn near perfectly good morality and character development in these games make them hard to connect too (excluding the nostalgic effect) and make for rather mediocre stories.

So at best ssb4 could connect 40 simplistic characters for the sake of nostalgia or it could make an actual good fighting game. And this by no means applies to all Nintendo series but it does apply to a lot of the older ones IMO.

Also if you want good story based games, Deus ex, metro 2033, fall out 2 and 3, and morrowind oblivion and to a degree Skyrim, and a lot of there games exist.

Nintendo characters with amazing developments that are potential or already-existing characters:
Samus
Marth
Ike
Chrom
Bowser
Luigi
Lucario
Mewtwo
Ridley
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Rosalina
Snake
Sonic
Fox
Falco
...etc.

That argument doesn't hold ground, and as I said on an earlier post, it's like the episode of Power Rangers when all the Red ones team up...these games aren't showing me my childhood heroes working together, and they're not very charming games either.

If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

That's probably one of the most pessimistic things I've ever read.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's probably one of the most pessimistic things I've ever read.

How is it pessimistic. If you have two people with opposite views? How do you please both? You can't just compromise because neither side is pleased.

 

[D-idara]

How is it pessimistic. If you have two people with opposite views? How do you please both? You can't just compromise because neither side is pleased.

I would even accept the return of wavedash if we got another SSE, so yes, he could please everyone.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wave dash and SSE are apples and carrots. You can't compare the two.

 

[OmegaObi-wan144]

How is it pessimistic. If you have two people with opposite views? How do you please both? You can't just compromise because neither side is pleased.

As long as the views arent conflicting then it shouldnt be too hard to please people. If you want something like a good competitive experience while still being fun for more casual players, this can be solved by making a deep game with easy controls for beginners. It only cant be compromised when the opinions devolve into "put sonic in hes le cool anime hero or I wont play" and "keep that sonic garbage out of my smash bros look at his eyes, disgusting if hes in I wont play"

 

[Big-Cat]

As long as the views arent conflicting then it shouldnt be too hard to please people. If you want something like a good competitive experience while still being fun for more casual players, this can be solved by making a deep game with easy controls for beginners. It only cant be compromised when the opinions devolve into "put sonic in hes le cool anime hero or I wont play" and "keep that sonic garbage out of my smash bros look at his eyes, disgusting if hes in I wont play"

But then you won't be able to please everyone with the Sonic situation. Some will want him and others won't. It's impossible to please both.

 

[D-idara]

Wave dash and SSE are apples and carrots. You can't compare the two.

Both are things that make or break the game for extremists of each side of the fanbase.

 

[OmegaObi-wan144]

I would even accept the return of wavedash if we got another SSE, so yes, he could please everyone.

The reason why putting sse into the game is a problem for some people is because its so big that many of the developers resources are utilized on it instead of the other features of the game. Time, money, capital are all resources and are not unlimited. If i wanted to have a good single player, then I wouldnt be able to attend to the multiplayer smash is famous for. If i havd a strong multiplayer, the single player will be weaker. If i want both, then id have to half ass everything to meet my constraints or take even longer to release the product, sometimes taking so long that the project falls into obscurity or fails do to lack of funding. None of these options please everyone, and while its sad that sse wont come back, its understandable if we get to have a strong multiplayer for all sorts of people.

 

[Trick or Treat]

But then you won't be able to please everyone with the Sonic situation. Some will want him and others won't. It's impossible to please both.

Sure you can. Put in Shadow instead of Sonic.

Problem solved.

Or just convince people that whether or not Sonic, a single character, is in the game shouldn't actually matter. If you're mad about a certain character being in the game, just play as other characters. One character doesn't ruin a game. If you're mad that he isn't in the game...it's the same deal. Sonic, or any character, can't really be your biggest reason for playing the game.

 

[OmegaObi-wan144]

But then you won't be able to please everyone with the Sonic situation. Some will want him and others won't. It's impossible to please both.

Not all conflicts can be settled with everyone ending up happy, though others can, such as making the game both competitively viable and also balanced for casual players

 

[IsmaR]

I think you mean fun, not balanced.

 

[ThomasTheTrain]

Nintendo characters with amazing developments that are potential or already-existing characters:
Samus
Marth
Ike
Chrom
Bowser
Luigi
Lucario
Mewtwo
Ridley
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Rosalina
Snake
Sonic
Fox
Falco
...etc.

That argument doesn't hold ground, and as I said on an earlier post, it's like the episode of Power Rangers when all the Red ones team up...these games aren't showing me my childhood heroes working together, and they're not very charming games either.

Most of those characters aren't well developed at all Luigi for example.. what drives him? Where the hell is everyone else why is bowser bad and do what he does? Characters that seem relate-able and you can picture yourself in their situation etc are "well developed".

Donkey Kong as well I'm mostly familiar with his n64 game, but (I'm familiar with his nes incarnation just they flesh him out more in the n64) why does donkey Kong act as he does, where the hell are the rest of his people, it seems like there are hundreds of baddies yet only 9 good guys and why is his nemesis doing what he does (mainly the kidnapping ).

And well Pokemon quite obviously is a kids show with no development (in the first 3 seasons or so ash develops and even hints at some deeper subjects, but than it turns into a kid show and 10+ years later ash is still twelve) lucario for example is a sentient being who takes **** from all these humans and basically watches as his kind (Pokemon) have no form of legal representation and to a degree are treated as second class citizens. (There's Pokemon theft/kidnapping but nobody dares do it to a human...)

Marth however is pretty fleshed out the act of vengeance is a understandable driving force, and he regrets his murder to a degree and kind of says he's nit a good guy any more but he's better than the people he's replacing. I wouldn't say his game is exactly a master piece but it's relate-able enough.

 

[D-idara]

Did you watch Pokemon: The First Movie? And the Pokemon slavery argument has been debunked to hell and over, people don't 'enslave; Pokemon as you claim.
Luigi has gotten quite a bit of character development along Luigi's Mansion 1&2 and Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, when we're LITERALLY SHOWN WHAT DRIVES HIM AND WHAT TROUBLES HIM THE MOST.
Many theories have been made about Bowser's motive, and some part of his motives were cleared up on Super Mario Sunshine, hinting at the fact that the Koopaling's and Bowser Jr.'s mother is dead and Bowser probably wants to kidnap Peach and marry her so that his children can have a mother.

...also, since you mentioned Skyrim...PLEASE TELL ME HOW AWESOME OF A VILLAIN ALDUIN IS, OR HOW THE DRAGONBORN'S MOTIVATED BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN "THE PROPHECY!".

The thing is that Nintendo often gives some good development and personality to underdeveloped characters in certain games, and that makes them very memorable...also, you're not trying to deny my Power Rangers argument because you know I'm right, there's nothing like your childhood heroes teaming up and fighting evil all together.

 

[pitthekit]

Did you watch Pokemon: The First Movie? And the Pokemon slavery argument has been debunked to hell and over, people don't 'enslave; Pokemon as you claim.
Luigi has gotten quite a bit of character development along Luigi's Mansion 1&2 and Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, when we're LITERALLY SHOWN WHAT DRIVES HIM AND WHAT TROUBLES HIM THE MOST.
Many theories have been made about Bowser's motive, and some part of his motives were cleared up on Super Mario Sunshine, hinting at the fact that the Koopaling's and Bowser Jr.'s mother is dead and Bowser probably wants to kidnap Peach and marry her so that his children can have a mother.

...also, since you mentioned Skyrim...PLEASE TELL ME HOW AWESOME OF A VILLAIN ALDUIN IS, OR HOW THE DRAGONBORN'S MOTIVATED BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN "THE PROPHECY!".

The thing is that Nintendo often gives some good development and personality to underdeveloped characters in certain games, and that makes them very memorable...also, you're not trying to deny my Power Rangers argument because you know I'm right, there's nothing like your childhood heroes teaming up and fighting evil all together.

Skyrims story and character interpretations is entirely up to the player... Books use this a lot for ending.

Also "you're not denying my power rangers argument blah blah fighting evil all together"

Número one just because someone does not respond to apart of your argument does not make that portion correct without any doubt.

Solving and appreciating the world of math can be seen as a better feeling than watching superheroes of different games fight villains.

Watching superheroes beat up villains is not the most enjoyable thing in this universe I think.

I know what I said is mostly opinion except for the first string of words that I have bolded the third last word and the last word on my post

 

[Xermo]

This thread sure did evolve into an even ****tier ****-fest.

 

[DraginHikari]

Doesn't seem to take too long these days.

 

[The Slayer]

At the end of the day, some people will like it wholeheartedly and the rest ranged from indifferent or don't like it. Trying to force a similar idea in the next game just for the sake of it seems selfish to me and it wouldn't help things at all.

 

[Eight Melodies]

I wouldn't really say any Nintendo character has a particularly compelling story arc besides maybe some Fire Emblem characters and Lucas. A Nintendo crossover story will never be much of a masterpiece, but I guess it doesn't really need to be.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I dont know why you guys take di-dara posts seriously at all. Maybe he has a mental impairment or something, idk, but every thing he says is very self righteous, biased, rude, condescending towards opposite views, and he refuses to let anyone else have their way. Hes literally a tumblr nerd or at least comes off as it, and unless you guys are just giving him recognition because he gets bullied irl and you want him to feel special about himself, then you guys should stop ackowledging him. When he says stuff like real nintendo fan and how its every smash fans wet dream (lol you still have those?) I thought it would be obvious how unworthy of credibility he is.

UuUuUuww!! Kill Em'!

#GetTheGun

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Both are things that make or break the game for extremists of each side of the fanbase.

Not really. Wave dashing is cool, but having a solid game is better. There are so many more important things that people don't see in game that have a huge effect on gameplay,

Personally, I like wavelanding on platforms more than wave dashing on the base of the platform/stage.