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Why The Subspace Emmissary Got It Right...

andimidna

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I loved the SSE

Idea: A stage in SSB4 based off the levels, a moving level, based off Subspace Emissary that would change through certain points in Brawl's version. It would split the levels in two, and be random like Mushroom Kingdom. It wouldn't have cutscenes, as a stage, but would be called Subspace Emissary. There would be many Stage Hazards throughout the mode in the stage including Rayquaza and Tabuu, and common enemies appearing throughout the stage like Thicken, Feyesh, Jyk, Goomba, Koopa Troopa, Spaak, and Primids.

Would you guys like this? I would. There are quite a lot of possibilities and potential.
 
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D-idara

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I don't care for fanfics, I want a story that I can play through with amazing cutscenes and engaging story...and no, the characters fighting each other isn't enough at all! Why should I care if Mario and Sonic are fighting each other if there's no context? It's just incredibly bland and boring. There's a good part of the fanbase who are sad because we won't get more amazing cutscenes, and there's a good part of the franchise who are worried about there being no co-op this time, because playing the SSE with a friend was a blast.

Even the cutscenes weren't worth it for me. The regular Smash gameplay is already a fascinating crossover to me. I see Mario throwing a Poké Ball and my inner child squeals. And as a kid playing the N64 Smash, I think my musings for why these characters meet and fight was more creative than a naked glowing man bombing random mountains and fields.
Boring as hell, Mario being thrown a Pokeball by the Pokemon trainer and both of them smiling assertively as Mario throws it towards a bad guy and a Pokemon's released in a flash of light, setting the stage for a battle to start with epic camera angles and background music, now that's exciting.
 
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Morbi

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It was all style and no substance.
I completely and utterly agree with this sentiment... wholeheartedly. I really enjoyed the premise of Subspace Emissary; however, it wasn't executed properly. The bonds formed felt attenuated by the generic plot, it was unfounded conflict met with acceptance once the characters fighting realized that they weren't really enemies... for every single pair that wasn't already a team. It was redundant and the notion that Nintendo characters don't speak was VERY apparent. It just wasn't enjoyable, the game-play wasn't fun and the story wasn't immersive or engaging.

That wouldn't have been so bad if it didn't take 3/5 of the development time.
 

number1029

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I don't understand what everyone's beef with SSE is. I mean it was one mode of a fighting game. As a stand alone game you could be more critical of it but I thought it was the best story mode inside of a fighting game to date. I wasn't expecting there to be some kind of deep, moving motivation or character development coming from the likes of Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch. The gameplay was fun, the stickers were a nice touch, and the game was very challenging on intense mode. I cleared the mode on intense multiple times, and I intend to give it another run through before the next Smash comes out. I DID play the game on co-op however. I imagine it's a much more enjoyable experience that way.
 

Big-Cat

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Had the mode never been highly hyped and advertised like it had been pre-release, the SSE would've been much better received. Brawl, in general, was a victim of Hype Backlash.
 

Knight Dude

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Eh, I could take it or leave it myself. Personally, I would want something similar to the Melee Adventure Mode, but improved. One thing that needs to be brought back is the enemies actually being from Nintendo games. Very few were, and at the top of my head I can only think of some Mario minions and a few bosses. Along with that, we should have the areas where we fight actually based on the many series. Though I will say Brawl adding co-op was pretty awesome, and I hope to see that again.
 

Morbi

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I don't understand what everyone's beef with SSE is. I mean it was one mode of a fighting game. As a stand alone game you could be more critical of it but I thought it was the best story mode inside of a fighting game to date. I wasn't expecting there to be some kind of deep, moving motivation or character development coming from the likes of Donkey Kong and Mr. Game & Watch. The gameplay was fun, the stickers were a nice touch, and the game was very challenging on intense mode. I cleared the mode on intense multiple times, and I intend to give it another run through before the next Smash comes out. I DID play the game on co-op however. I imagine it's a much more enjoyable experience that way.
I just don't feel as though it was worth the majority of development time. If that was over half of the game, it should have been much more comprehensive. Just based on the development time alone, one could make a compelling argument that the actual game was tacked onto Subspace. Okay, maybe not... but still. :awesome:
 

FlareHabanero

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Had the mode never been highly hyped and advertised like it had been pre-release, the SSE would've been much better received. Brawl, in general, was a victim of Hype Backlash.
I don't think SSE would of been positively received regardless of whether or not it was treated as the focus, because regardless the mode has some really notable flaws.
 

D-idara

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I don't think SSE would of been positively received regardless of whether or not it was treated as the focus, because regardless the mode has some really notable flaws.
It also had many good parts which were overlooked (Everyone talks about the cutscenes, but the co-op's often ignored...and my best times with Brawl were had playing SSE with friends and grabbing the 'coolest' character first).
 

Morbi

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It also had many good parts which were overlooked (Everyone talks about the cutscenes, but the co-op's often ignored...and my best times with Brawl were had playing SSE with friends and grabbing the 'coolest' character first).
I am going to have to agree with you on that one, the co-op is what saved the mode. It is the only reason I even touched the mode for a second (and subsequently third) time.
 

number1029

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I don't think SSE would of been positively received regardless of whether or not it was treated as the focus, because regardless the mode has some really notable flaws.
Says the guy with the Wonderful 101 sig. Lolz tasteless I know.
 

D-idara

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I am going to have to agree with you on that one, the co-op is what saved the mode. It is the only reason I even touched the mode for a second (and subsequently third) time.
Yeah, but people often said it had no replay value :I I spent a lot of times trying to capture all of the bosses with Trophy Stands and collecting the hidden goodies in each level, most of these things were also easier to do with a friend. I understand the reasoning for removing SSE, I really do, the Wii U's not in a good situation and it needs a killer app quick, but if the Wii U was doing as well as the Wii was, I wouldn't mind waiting a couple more months for an even meatier game.

What I mean is that I fully understand the reasons for it being removed, but I think the idea shouldn't be ditched entirely, maybe this one could have a fresh take on the adventure mode formula and then SSB5 or 6 (If you consider the 3DS version 5) could take another stab at an epic, grand-scale story mode...

Just ****ing give me Ridley and I'll be happy.

Says the guy with the Wonderful 101 sig. Lolz tasteless I know.
I don't get it, a W101 sig shows good taste in games.
 
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Big-Cat

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I don't think SSE would of been positively received regardless of whether or not it was treated as the focus, because regardless the mode has some really notable flaws.
You still have to take into account expectations vs. reality. I'm not saying the flaws wouldn't have been recognized, but, as a whole, it would've been received better.
 

Miss Fit

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The SSE felt like a watered down Kirby title.

The environments were bleak, the level design felt so uninspired, the padding was unbearable and the great maze felt like Super Metroid if they sucked out all the fun. And I also really disliked the enemies alot. I feel like they would have worked n any other game but when you are working with like 30 different franchises each with their own set of baddies it just feels like a waste of potential. And I will guarantee you that Brawl wouldn't have been delayed so much if they didn't have it in the game. Almost every music track was a remix of the Brawl theme too, it got pretty annoying!
 

Knight Dude

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I do think the co-op was one of the best choices that the Subspace ever brought. But the lack of actual Nintendo locations, makes the whole crossover aspect a little less powerful. At least that's what I think.
 

TimeSmash

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An ideal version of SSB4's Adventure mode would be something more akin to Melee's, where you literally are on a sort of aimless adventure to beat a big enemy like Bowser or Master Hand. However, if you wanted more substance than that, a few more cutscenes would be needed, or at least some sort of intro. I loved Melee's adventure though, even though since SSE I would like to see character crossovers (and for those who say read fanfiction, yes, that is a reasonable output, but do you think things like Mario Warfare would have been so successful as a text?) as I appreciated odd teams like Zamus and Pikachu travelling together. Someone said a mode like Starfox 64, where you branch off depending on the actions you take during the stage, would be a great idea for stage variety and I totally agree with them. As for enemies, return to NIntendo ones, but if I see original ones again that's not terrible. Master Hand is an original creation after all, as are such fan favorites like Crazy Hand and Giga Bowser. The thing about Melee's adventure mode is that is was crisp and compact, but had little things here and there that made it a challenge and more about fighting. Subspace Emissary was sort of like this, but incredibly drawn out, and I enjoyed it. Were SSB4'a little longer than Melee's, alright. And I honestly loved the little introductions before you faced characters in Melee, which probably didn't take that long to produce (they were like, ten second clips or less). And I loved the Special Movie in Melee, too, and that wasn't even really rendered that much or anything, it was just a tribute to interesting and funny recordings of most or all of the starters and I'd love to see that return.

The dropping of bonuses also might have an effect slightly on how people view adventure modes. Things like Goomba KOs, that huge bonus for beating all the Links, and things like that provided more incentive to screw around, and SSE lost some of that.

Can't wait for this post to get ripped apart. Please use clean blades if you to do so, internet lockjaw is quite the *****
 

SmashShadow

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While co-op is a great feature, it's not as if they need a story mode to use it.
 

Eight Melodies

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I think I would rather have a Melee-style adventure mode with cutscenes before and after playing it that are unique to each character. Sorta like arcade mode in other fighting games.
 

Arcadenik

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I do think the co-op was one of the best choices that the Subspace ever brought. But the lack of actual Nintendo locations, makes the whole crossover aspect a little less powerful. At least that's what I think.
This... that's why I found the Subspace Emissary to be cumbersome... I got bored of Brawl's adventure mode. I prefer Melee's adventure mode.
 

Ridley_Prime

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1. Melee style adventure mode.

2. Co-op.

3. ?????

4. Profit!
 

Knight Dude

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1. Melee style adventure mode.

2. Co-op.

3. ?????

4. Profit!
All we need now are some Mustaches and some pointless fan-service! Everyone loves those things. Also I think some people would be happy to see some Alien, a fat King, and some Purple Dragon. So throw that in too if you want.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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It was more like classic mode, where you could do it in one sitting. You'd go through a platformer stage based on a franchise, then fight the character on one of their stages. Here this is easier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TgBReQZ0GQ

Edit: Wording
In actuality, I remember being disappointed when I first played this--mostly because a good half of the stages were just event matches. If Adventure mode Melee style consisted of more platforming styled stages and mixed things up a bit for each character, I would have liked it far more. Let's hope SSB4's adventure mode does what SSE and Melee's failed at.
 

Big-Cat

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In Melee's defense, that game was rushed in general. I wouldn't be surprised that if Adventure Mode has Melee elements, that we have more levels like the first level.
 

UltimateWario

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Melee Adventure Mode + Better Graphics and Not-**** Art Direction + Branching Paths with Secret Encounters + Cute Little Intro Scenes = Best.

Also, maybe make the Zelda section not a chore and ugly as ****.

Also, a section from every franchise included. Would be cool to go through a huge G&W-style area and fight LCD enemies, and a Fire Emblem area where you fight tons of generic red soldiers.
 
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RelaxAlax

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Well hey, let's remind ourselves that this game has been in development for quite some time. What is it been, 2 years? I sweat Brawl took just as long, I've seen that written on here many times.

I really do hope that we get a good single player. Looking back, SSE was fun for the first time just because of hype. Then you go back and get all the hidden goodies and unlockables. Then go for 100%. But even someone like that cough cough me found it very dull and half-hearted. My favorite cutscene is when Link frees Ganondorf and before Ganon can do a thing Link point to Tabuu and they walk away with Ganondorf clenching his fist. To me, that was awesome. But overall, flashiness doesn't beat out the content. The story was really boring and uninspired.

You can like it by all means, but don't say nobody is a true Nintendo fan if they didn't like it. That's uncalled for and blatantly fallacious.
 

UltimateWario

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You can like it by all means, but don't say nobody is a true Nintendo fan if they didn't like it. That's uncalled for and blatantly fallacious.
For that matter, don't ever call anyone "not a true anything" ever. It's more of a strawman than a ****ing scarecrow and it makes you look like a huge ****ing douche.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Frostwraith

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We still had other co-op modes outside of the SSE, incl. All-Star mode, Event matches and all Stadium modes as well. Home-Run and Multi-Man could be played cooperatively online too.

SSE could have been better, but I prefer if they focus on the multiplayer aspects of the game both competitive and cooperative. A story mode that consumes development time and money is not essential for that.

Still, they could make some individual story modes like some other fighting games do...
 

Crocovile

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Played some co-op SSE with a friend a few weeks back, we both got real tired of it.

Not even co-op improves the experience of playing SSE. The levels are really dull and uninspired, the story is forgettable and makes very little sense at times, and feels very forced at other times (Tabuu out of nowhere). No voice-acting didn't really help with conveying the story, and when the entirety of the backstory needs to be posted on the net so that people can understand what's going on, instead of already being in the game, you know something's wrong.

The enemy design is awful (I still can't see primids as anything other than stupid looking monkeys with a bad fashion sense), and the fact that there's no contact damage from most enemies means that you don't even have to fight them all the time, making combat meaningless half of the time as you can just run past (almost) every enemy.

The music, when it wasn't a remix from another game, quickly became really annoying as it was just "Brawl main theme remix no. 347" (I'm absolutely sick of Brawl's main theme, the only remix I can stand listening to is Final Destination. Yes, Melee also remixed its theme alot, but not to this extent.)

Everything got really tedious (Great Maze, does it need any further explanation?!), and the gameplay was not optimized for the kind of platformer it tried to be (launch-percentage does not translate well into a damage-system for a beat-em up platformer like SSE).

And when you play co-op, Player 2 will always be at the mercy of Player 1. Because, only P1 can go through doors. The camera only follows P1. And if P1 dies and you have no stock left, it doesn't matter if P2 is still alive, because it still becomes a Game Over. all of this made SSE even more tiresome than when I went through it solo.

The cutscenes weren't even that impressive in my opnion.

So yeah, I don't mind Sakurai not making another story mode like SSE, because after what we got, I feel that if there should ever be a Nintendo All-Stars game with a great big story, then it should be dedicated to being its own unique game based around that premise, not some tacked on and watered-down "The Great Cave Offensive" clone that fails to live up to its potential, and instead affects the quality and production of the main-game.
 

D-idara

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The cutscenes weren't even that impressive in my opnion.
I think you're pretty alone on that.
We still had other co-op modes outside of the SSE, incl. All-Star mode, Event matches and all Stadium modes as well. Home-Run and Multi-Man could be played cooperatively online too.

SSE could have been better, but I prefer if they focus on the multiplayer aspects of the game both competitive and cooperative. A story mode that consumes development time and money is not essential for that.

Still, they could make some individual story modes like some other fighting games do...
Not essential? If all games had the 'essential' we wouldn't get bonus content, unlockables, music, I hate it when people use terms like these...it's like they don't want the game to have more content. I already said that the next Smash should have a big-scale story mode if Nintendo's doing better on the home console market, because there's no such thing as too much game content!

And Frost...you're seriously gonna compare a big-scale adventure mode with awesome cutscenes to...Home-Run Contest? I don't even know why HRC's still on the game :p I think everyone can agree on the fact that we should get both boss battles and intro/outro cutscenes. I want me some Robotnik.
 

Reila

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SSE is literally the only thing (besides tripping) I loath about Brawl. I am so glad it is gone. It was boring, overly long, the cutscenes weren't that interesting (I vastly prefer the SSB4 trailers for each character), the levels were extremely bland and gee, what was that villain (Taboo)? Not to mention the game was in part delayed because of goddamn SSE. Seriously, Brawl is my favorite game in the franchise, yet I have no trouble in admitting that Melee's single player mode was much much better than Brawl's. All of that being said, well, good for you if you liked SSE and I hope you somehow enjoy SSB4's single player mode.

Also, I should add that this is coming from who hardly plays multi player. I am in the minority who plays fighting games in single player mode, yet I think SSE sucked.
2. Smash should never be a story mode
I disagree with this. Smash can have story mode, but with individual and small storylines for each character. Kinda like the story modes in most fighting games out there. Just make a small cutscene for each character, like the ones in the last Mortal Kombat game (they are very simple, so it wouldn't take much time and resource to make them).
 
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OmegaObi-wan144

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I dont know why you guys take di-dara posts seriously at all. Maybe he has a mental impairment or something, idk, but every thing he says is very self righteous, biased, rude, condescending towards opposite views, and he refuses to let anyone else have their way. Hes literally a tumblr nerd or at least comes off as it, and unless you guys are just giving him recognition because he gets bullied irl and you want him to feel special about himself, then you guys should stop ackowledging him. When he says stuff like real nintendo fan and how its every smash fans wet dream (lol you still have those?) I thought it would be obvious how unworthy of credibility he is.
 
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