Why the hate for the heels?

[Shiliski]

Right.

So if we go back to talk about her heels, from a developer's perspective, why do you think they were implemented?

There are tons of potential reasons why Sakurai (or whoever is working on Samus's design) would implement heels, ranging from "They look cool" (and frankly they fail at that about as much as they do at being sexy) to "Because I didn't like Other M's useless heels and I wanted something that actually added to Samus's moveset".

Assuming the worst (that they exist for the sake of fanservice) is pretty cynical, especially when they fail at doing just that. Especially when it'd be the only character design failure on the whole roster. Especially when there is likely a large number of males on the dev team who'd be able to look at that design and point out that it fails at being fanservice. When I google "samus's sexy heels", I see a ton of arguments against them, a ton of claims that they are sexist without any real evidence to back them up (the majority of one article is a history lesson on Samus which doesn't at all relate to heels), a few strawman arguments that actually fail at burning the strawman (the point of the strawman is to create a weak argument and defeat it, not weakly flail at it and resort to ad-homs and namecalling (and yes, when you call someone ignorant or misogynist, then you are namecalling)). Shortly after that I see heel advertisements that have nothing to do with Samus.

Oh, wait. There was one article that defended them. His argument basically consisted of "there's worse stuff out there" and he said almost nothing about them being sexy. Nothing meaningful. Nothing substantial. An article just as logically weak as all the anti-heels ones I saw, with the only difference being that it's pro-heels. I think that alone shows that many are failing to give this subject any serious thought. There's also another article that seems thought out until you look at the glaring inconsistencies and ignorance of the facts, which again just tells me that thought was put into the construction of the argument, but no thought was put into deciding whether or not this was worth arguing over.

Aside from the many detractors, I have yet to hear anyone talk about how sexy her heels are. If they were actually sexy, then someone, somewhere out there, would be drooling over them, and yet this person seems to be completely absent or nonexistent. I think that alone casts serious doubt on their ability to work as fanservice. Heck, it's hard to even view Samus's new model in a sexy light without mentally blocking out the heels.

Now, if I see a vehicle with wings and a prop that can't go full speed without literally flying off the road, I'm not going to assume that it's a car with terrible design. I'm going to assume that it's a plane and that the flight is intentional.
If I see a cube with dots on it, I'm not going to assume that it's a poorly designed golf ball. I'm going to assume that it's a die.
If I see a bottle full of some transparent fluid with no carbonization and no sugary taste or caffeine... I'm not going to assume that it's a failed bottle of soda. I'm going to assume that it's water. Or vodka.
If I see someone walking past a SSB tournament and attend an SF4 tournament, I'm not going to assume that he's a smasher who got lost. I'm going to assume that he's a Street Fighter player.

The only things the heels succeed at is "not being Other M's heels" and "giving Zamus a rocket jump". So naturally I have to assume that to be the intent. I cannot accept fanservice as the intent because they fail at being that, and they fail pretty hard.

 

[Ffamran]

Point is: They serve a function even if they're based on sexy footwear.

Make fun of Raiden's effeminate side or be angered by Samus being sexualized, but they show up and start kicking ass, you better run. The other thing is that it's shaming people who wear heels. What if Samus likes wearing heels and looking pretty? Is there a problem? Should she not be a beautiful badass? Should Raiden cut his hair and be a "man"? Maybe he likes having long hair. People are people.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Sakurai and two other higher-ups walk into a bar. One employee wants no heels because it will take up development time, the other wants heels because he's into that kind of thing. The two argue until Sakurai tells them to do this wonderful thing: Compromise.

:O

And here's the shocker: BOTH employees had to do it!

Spoiler

Spoiler

Why is the game logo in English?

No amount of anything would desensitize anybody from such things.

Overgeneralizing.

There are tons of potential reasons why Sakurai (or whoever is working on Samus's design) would implement heels, ranging from "They look cool" (and frankly they fail at that about as much as they do at being sexy) to "Because I didn't like Other M's useless heels and I wanted something that actually added to Samus's moveset".

Assuming the worst (that they exist for the sake of fanservice) is pretty cynical, especially when they fail at doing just that. Especially when it'd be the only character design failure on the whole roster. Especially when there is likely a large number of males on the dev team who'd be able to look at that design and point out that it fails at being fanservice. When I google "samus's sexy heels", I see a ton of arguments against them, a ton of claims that they are sexist without any real evidence to back them up (the majority of one article is a history lesson on Samus which doesn't at all relate to heels), a few strawman arguments that actually fail at burning the strawman (the point of the strawman is to create a weak argument and defeat it, not weakly flail at it and resort to ad-homs and namecalling (and yes, when you call someone ignorant or misogynist, then you are namecalling)). Shortly after that I see heel advertisements that have nothing to do with Samus.

Oh, wait. There was one article that defended them. His argument basically consisted of "there's worse stuff out there" and he said almost nothing about them being sexy. Nothing meaningful. Nothing substantial. An article just as logically weak as all the anti-heels ones I saw, with the only difference being that it's pro-heels. I think that alone shows that many are failing to give this subject any serious thought. There's also another article that seems thought out until you look at the glaring inconsistencies and ignorance of the facts, which again just tells me that thought was put into the construction of the argument, but no thought was put into deciding whether or not this was worth arguing over.

Aside from the many detractors, I have yet to hear anyone talk about how sexy her heels are. If they were actually sexy, then someone, somewhere out there, would be drooling over them, and yet this person seems to be completely absent or nonexistent. I think that alone casts serious doubt on their ability to work as fanservice. Heck, it's hard to even view Samus's new model in a sexy light without mentally blocking out the heels.

Now, if I see a vehicle with wings and a prop that can't go full speed without literally flying off the road, I'm not going to assume that it's a car with terrible design. I'm going to assume that it's a plane and that the flight is intentional.
If I see a cube with dots on it, I'm not going to assume that it's a poorly designed golf ball. I'm going to assume that it's a die.
If I see a bottle full of some transparent fluid with no carbonization and no sugary taste or caffeine... I'm not going to assume that it's a failed bottle of soda. I'm going to assume that it's water. Or vodka.
If I see someone walking past a SSB tournament and attend an SF4 tournament, I'm not going to assume that he's a smasher who got lost. I'm going to assume that he's a Street Fighter player.

The only things the heels succeed at is "not being Other M's heels" and "giving Zamus a rocket jump". So naturally I have to assume that to be the intent. I cannot accept fanservice as the intent because they fail at being that, and they fail pretty hard.

^ He's right, ya know. ^

Point is: They serve a function even if they're based on sexy footwear.

Make fun of Raiden's effeminate side or be angered by Samus being sexualized, but they show up and start kicking ***, you better run. The other thing is that it's shaming people who wear heels. What if Samus likes wearing heels and looking pretty? Is there a problem? Should she not be a beautiful badass? Should Raiden cut his hair and be a "man"? Maybe he likes having long hair. People are people.

What I've been saying this whole time.

 

[kuk]

There are tons of potential reasons why Sakurai (or whoever is working on Samus's design) would implement heels, ranging from "They look cool" (and frankly they fail at that about as much as they do at being sexy) to "Because I didn't like Other M's useless heels and I wanted something that actually added to Samus's moveset".

Assuming the worst (that they exist for the sake of fanservice) is pretty cynical, especially when they fail at doing just that. Especially when it'd be the only character design failure on the whole roster. Especially when there is likely a large number of males on the dev team who'd be able to look at that design and point out that it fails at being fanservice. When I google "samus's sexy heels", I see a ton of arguments against them, a ton of claims that they are sexist without any real evidence to back them up (the majority of one article is a history lesson on Samus which doesn't at all relate to heels), a few strawman arguments that actually fail at burning the strawman (the point of the strawman is to create a weak argument and defeat it, not weakly flail at it and resort to ad-homs and namecalling (and yes, when you call someone ignorant or misogynist, then you are namecalling)). Shortly after that I see heel advertisements that have nothing to do with Samus.

Oh, wait. There was one article that defended them. His argument basically consisted of "there's worse stuff out there" and he said almost nothing about them being sexy. Nothing meaningful. Nothing substantial. An article just as logically weak as all the anti-heels ones I saw, with the only difference being that it's pro-heels. I think that alone shows that many are failing to give this subject any serious thought. There's also another article that seems thought out until you look at the glaring inconsistencies and ignorance of the facts, which again just tells me that thought was put into the construction of the argument, but no thought was put into deciding whether or not this was worth arguing over.

Aside from the many detractors, I have yet to hear anyone talk about how sexy her heels are. If they were actually sexy, then someone, somewhere out there, would be drooling over them, and yet this person seems to be completely absent or nonexistent. I think that alone casts serious doubt on their ability to work as fanservice. Heck, it's hard to even view Samus's new model in a sexy light without mentally blocking out the heels.

Now, if I see a vehicle with wings and a prop that can't go full speed without literally flying off the road, I'm not going to assume that it's a car with terrible design. I'm going to assume that it's a plane and that the flight is intentional.
If I see a cube with dots on it, I'm not going to assume that it's a poorly designed golf ball. I'm going to assume that it's a die.
If I see a bottle full of some transparent fluid with no carbonization and no sugary taste or caffeine... I'm not going to assume that it's a failed bottle of soda. I'm going to assume that it's water. Or vodka.
If I see someone walking past a SSB tournament and attend an SF4 tournament, I'm not going to assume that he's a smasher who got lost. I'm going to assume that he's a Street Fighter player.

The only things the heels succeed at is "not being Other M's heels" and "giving Zamus a rocket jump". So naturally I have to assume that to be the intent. I cannot accept fanservice as the intent because they fail at being that, and they fail pretty hard.

Well, I think it ultimately depends on your subjective view, but a woman in heels (IRL) is generelly regarded as more sexy than one without heels for a number of reasons. Maybe not the heels themselves, but what they do to a woman's body. Heels make a woman's butt stick out more, they make her walk in a certain way etc.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

LuLZ....

So it wasn't the skin tight one piece that made Samus over sexualized, it was the awesome rocket powerd jet heels that, as a man, find in now way sexually appealing. Course, I think women look sexy in Timberland boots, fitted hats and hoodies so...meh.

I know others have pointed it out but, you know, just to reiterate Peach and Zelda been kicking butt in heels since Melee. At least Zamus' heels are designed to give a combat advantage.

 

[PikaSamus]

"ATTENTION!!! Don't give the heels too much height!"

 

[Shiliski]

If it's a matter of Samus's butt, well... her's does stick out more and that's been noticed. That's a difference that would certainly make her more sexualized than she would be without it.

As for her walk... well... Looking at current gameplay videos she doesn't really seem to have a butt-shakey walk that is often associated with heels. Her walk is more cautious, more like a trained soldier trying to not get her head blown off and less like a woman trying to call attention to her hips. It's almost like they didn't update her animation to consider the fact that she has heels... (which is a bit of an artistic "oops" if they forgot about that).

I really have to wonder why the argument is "She's being increasingly sexualized" instead of "She never should've been sexualized in the first place". The former is going to be disregarded by those who played the older games while they were relevant, whereas the latter would be a much stronger (and more to the point) argument. Sure, people will try to give you some sort of argument like "It's always been that way so stop ruining my games!" but... really a reductio ad antiquitatem fallacy isn't a strong argument, and most players care more about the hours of gameplay and not the stuff at the end.

By arguing that she's being increasingly sexualized, you're not making the argument about whether or not Samus is being sexualized at all. You're making it about whether or not the sexualization is more than it has been in the past. Not only is that hard to quantify and completely beside the point, but it leads people to think that you're saying she used to be not nearly as sexualized as she is now (regardless of whether or not that's what you're actually saying)... which just isn't true.

With the classic Metroid endings, Samus doesn't just show up and immediately remove her powersuit. There is a waiting period of a few seconds meant to tease the player and build anticipation. After that tease, the player is rewarded with a picture of Samus in tight, revealing clothes. This is an important and critical difference that often gets overlooked. First off, the teasing and anticipation make it seem like a bigger deal than it otherwise would be. It's a psychological trick that is found all throughout many forms of story telling... and... other things that I wont mention. Secondly, the fact that the player has to meet a certain standard means that this is a reward for "proving himself as a man". These are important distinctions in regards to Samus's objectification. Ending Samus is a trophy, which is an earned thing and is, by implication, "owned".

A woman minding her own business while wearing a skin-tight suit and heels doesn't really compare to a woman who teases you, rewards you, and wears almost nothing. Heck, even the sports bra without the teasing/rewarding isn't on the same level of sexualization as the same clothing with the teasing/rewarding.

A trophy that the player has earned is an object, though admittedly it's offset a little by the fact that Samus is a player character. During gameplay she's the person that the player identifies with and not the object that the player wishes to obtain, while in the ending the opposite is true. It's more complicated than that because you might be playing the game to get a certain ending, but you know.. that's the general idea.

If Samus were wearing more conservative clothing and heels on top of that, I doubt people would be arguing against the heels, which really makes me wonder if the heels are to blame for this.

"ATTENTION!!! Don't give the heels too much height!"

I guess we're all just going to ignore the part where he says he'll enjoy drawing her butt? Okay, cool.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

With the classic Metroid endings, Samus doesn't just show up and immediately remove her powersuit. There is a waiting period of a few seconds meant to tease the player and build anticipation. After that tease, the player is rewarded with a picture of Samus in tight, revealing clothes. This is an important and critical difference that often gets overlooked. First off, the teasing and anticipation make it seem like a bigger deal than it otherwise would be. It's a psychological trick that is found all throughout many forms of story telling... and... other things that I wont mention. Secondly, the fact that the player has to meet a certain standard means that this is a reward for "proving himself as a man". These are important distinctions in regards to Samus's objectification. Ending Samus is a trophy, which is an earned thing and is, by implication, "owned".

I think it should be more "prove yourself as a gamer." Metrio wasn't the first game that gave a player a reward for finishing a game with a great amount of skill and it won't be the last. Just because you're getting a digitized woman in a bikini at the end of you speed run doesn't mean you're a man, or the designers specifically did it to appeal to the male gamer and give them incentive to beat the game faster. The first reactions to Metrio was "Wow, I was a bad ass WOMAN the whole time?" I believe the creator even went on record saying this but I would have to look that article up.

A woman minding her own business while wearing a skin-tight suit and heels doesn't really compare to a woman who teases you, rewards you, and wears almost nothing. Heck, even the sports bra without the teasing/rewarding isn't on the same level of sexualization as the same clothing with the teasing/rewarding.

Oooh, gettin all hot and bothered...

A trophy that the player has earned is an object, though admittedly it's offset a little by the fact that Samus is a player character. During gameplay she's the person that the player identifies with and not the object that the player wishes to obtain, while in the ending the opposite is true. It's more complicated than that because you might be playing the game to get a certain ending, but you know.. that's the general idea.

I can't speak for every guy, so you may be right, but I didn't 100% Metriod Prime games to oogle at Samus in laungerie and "cheat" on my girl friend. I did it for the gratification that I got every missile upgrade, every energy tank, every lore entry. Again, other gamers and Metriod fans might of have different motivations to beat a Metriod game the best way they could. But I think it's unfair to say Samus in the skinny is the prize when there where much more worthwhile things you get for beating a Metriod game fully like art gallery stuff, ratings, and bragging rights among friends.

If Samus were wearing more conservative clothing and heels on top of that, I doubt people would be arguing against the heels, which really makes me wonder if the heels are to blame for this.

I don't see why the heels that have mini jet packs are even an issue, especially compared to the one piece....but I said that already so...meh.

 

[Shiliski]

I think it should be more "prove yourself as a gamer." Metrio wasn't the first game that gave a player a reward for finishing a game with a great amount of skill and it won't be the last. Just because you're getting a digitized woman in a bikini at the end of you speed run doesn't mean you're a man, or the designers specifically did it to appeal to the male gamer and give them incentive to beat the game faster. The first reactions to Metrio was "Wow, I was a bad *** WOMAN the whole time?" I believe the creator even went on record saying this but I would have to look that article up.

I never really played the first Metroid (at least not thoroughly), and I went into Metroid 2 thinking "yay female character!" without really being aware of the endings. I didn't learn about those (never beat Metroid 2) until Super Metroid.

Aside from that, emotional reactions and logical conclusions are two different things. No, you're not really proving your "manhood" in any meaningful way, but none of that really matters when the power suit is coming off.

I can't speak for every guy, so you may be right, but I didn't 100% Metriod Prime games to oogle at Samus in laungerie and "cheat" on my girl friend. I did it for the gratification that I got every missile upgrade, every energy tank, every lore entry. Again, other gamers and Metriod fans might of have different motivations to beat a Metriod game the best way they could. But I think it's unfair to say Samus in the skinny is the prize when there where much more worthwhile things you get for beating a Metriod game fully like art gallery stuff, ratings, and bragging rights among friends.

I was going to point out the Prime series before I cut out that part from my post. Prime actually does very little to sexualize Samus at all, IIRC, and stands out as the exception to the rule. I also distinctly remember that no one really missed the bikini or complained about its absence, so this may be a difference in "what gamers really want" vs. "what people think gamers want".

I don't see why the heels that have mini jet packs are even an issue, especially compared to the one piece....but I said that already so...meh.

I agree. The concept that the heels are far and above worse than all the other stuff is strange to me.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

My memory is fuzzy from Prime. I believe the incentives to 100% those games where for the art gallery completion.Prime 1 ending was her with out the helmet on, I think? Prime 2, from what I remember was you talking to Chozo's and then she goes Zero Suit and flies off. Prime 3 wasn't that memorable so I forget that one. Consequently, Prime 2 is my favorite Metroid game. Thinking about it Retro made the Prime Series where it is suggest that Samus is "least" serialized there versus the Japanese made ones. So you may have a point in saying:

"what gamers really want" vs. "what people think gamers want".

since Retro where fans of Metriod before making the game.

I don't want to justify serialization, or more so, objectification of woman...no matter if she's real or digital...but maybe it's just one of those cultural differences between Japan and America. I used to love watching anime but as I got older I just began getting "turned off" how much fan service an alleged 14 year old girl can provide give to the audience.

Again, I didn't miss the Bikini shots. It could stem from "People who have played Metriod before Prime" and "People who played Metriod after Prime"... As someone who "played Metriod before Prime" I guess I don't see "Sexy Suit Samus" as a big deal.

I
I guess we're all just going to ignore the part where he says he'll enjoy drawing her butt? Okay, cool.

LMAO!

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I feel as a major thing people have the problem with is the fact that she is showing femininity. not that we want her dressing like a boy. but it was always pleasing to see that she Seemed like the type of person who would not wear heals for professional reasons.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

It doesn't even look to me like she's walking in them like they're heels. She seems to emphasize the balls of her feet and uses the heel portion as a stabilizer for landings or when she drops into her gun stance.

That's probably been mentioned in here before, but watch some of the videos that do closeups on her. She bounces on the balls of her feet and doesn't appear to use the heel portion for its intended use.

I don't have a problem with them. They're fine. Also, something that clunky and mechanical looking, no matter what its design is, is only going to sexy for specific groups of people.

 

[Luminario]

This thread is still going? I thought it was generally accepted that a 6'3 super soldier wouldn't be wearing heels in battle (screw the 5'5 with platform shoes Other M bull****) I mean it works fine for characters like Peach. You ever been kicked in the face by a high heel? she doesn't just wear them cause they look good. But for ZSS, who uses the rocket boots like Alisa from Tekken, the more practical Zelda bootwear would make more sense.
All in all when you get past the whole sexualised Samus thing I do like the effect the boots give her. They make her kicks look like they really hurt.

 

[BloderModer]

The heels are ugly and I don't like them.
Also, it's very clear that we'll never get a rational serious discussion out of these very politically dividing subjects in Smashboards.

 

[Shiliski]

The heels are ugly and I don't like them.

They are ugly, and I've never seen anyone claim otherwise. Heels that actually look good are usually sleek and tight in design, whereas these are huge and bulky.

Also the yellow of the heels throws the color balance way off when viewing Samus from the front. They took an analogous blue color scheme and turned it into an incomplete Red Blue Yellow triad. If you view her from the back, she has red on her back so the triad is complete and it looks okay, but there isn't enough red on the front to make it look okay. In short it clashes with the rest of her pretty hard.

No one is actually defending the heels or saying that they should stay. Most people don't care and probably wouldn't have ever noticed if not for the huge controversy around them, nor would most even care if they suddenly vanished. We're just saying that ugly heels aren't sexy, and I'm not sure how that doesn't make perfect logical sense.

 

[BloderModer]

They are ugly, and I've never seen anyone claim otherwise. Heels that actually look good are usually sleek and tight in design, whereas these are huge and bulky.

Also the yellow of the heels throws the color balance way off when viewing Samus from the front. They took an analogous blue color scheme and turned it into an incomplete Red Blue Yellow triad. If you view her from the back, she has red on her back so the triad is complete and it looks okay, but there isn't enough red on the front to make it look okay. In short it clashes with the rest of her pretty hard.

No one is actually defending the heels or saying that they should stay. Most people don't care and probably wouldn't have ever noticed if not for the huge controversy around them, nor would most even care if they suddenly vanished. We're just saying that ugly heels aren't sexy, and I'm not sure how that doesn't make perfect logical sense.

Sexualization is ugly. Do you see how that would make sense?

 

[Shiliski]

Sexualization is ugly. Do you see how that would make sense?

Not a fair comparison.

First, You're using a different definition of the word ugly. Something that is physically ugly is by definition less sexy than something that is not. I dare you to find anything that is both physically ugly and sexy. I'll wait. When you finally give up on your futile search, I'll be here to tell you that I told you so.

Secondly, Whether or not it is morally ugly is a completely different discussion altogether, not to mention completely off topic. However, there is a big difference between saying that something doesn't appeal to your aesthetic sense, and saying that it offends you morally. Twisting around definitions like that does not lead to any sort of rational discussion, nor does it really convince any reasonable person to see your point of view.

Thirdly, how can it be possibly be sexualization if it isn't sexy at all? It's impossible. Even if you were to say that sexualization is evil, you'd still have to admit that this is not sexualization. Any other conclusion would be little more than mindless witchhunting. That kind of attitude is more commonly found in KKK meetings and the Salem Witch Trials, not in any logical discourse.

The simple fact remains that the claim "These ugly heels are oversexualizing Samus" is a blatant and clear contradiction. This isn't exactly shaky logic. This is a pretty clear and concise formal proof. It is literally impossible to believe this unless you're willing to completely throw logic out of the window. The only thing you can argue about is whether or not the heels are actually ugly... which is somewhat subjective, but most people agree that they are. No matter how much you insist that sexualization is evil, it doesn't really change the fact that this is not sexualization, therefore making the argument against sexualization completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

It's just a game... so Chill

 

[FirestormNeos]

It's just a game... so Chill

On the internet, video games are serious business.

With that said, you're probably the smartest person here for not caring.

 

[kuk]

"ATTENTION!!! Don't give the heels too much height!"

I don't know what is more scary here...

The fact that the designer pointed out how much he enjoys drawing her butt, or that her butt is twice the size of that in the game itself. Her butt looks much better here than it does in the final game. 0_o

About the whole sexualization issue, obviously it very much comes down to personal, subjective opinion.

About the heels, Samus never had them before. That's why comparisons to Peach don't make sense. The heels were GIVEN to Samus to make her more "feminine". In exactly the same way, she was GIVEN a big butt because it looks more "feminine" than a smaller, firmer butt.

Most characters change, and that's OK of course. But the changes made to Samus is almost always to increase her sex appeal or femininity. Can you imagine if Link got a bigger butt or if Mario suddenly slimmed down and became a bishounen? Because that is how Nintendo treats Samus - they treat her like a sex object.

 

[ph00tbag]

For what it's worth, butts are fun to draw no matter whom they belong to. DD=3

But yeah, the comment is pretty inappropriate.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't understand what's wrong with enjoying drawing a fictional butt. There's nothing wrong with liking Samus' butt or sex. Stop trying to demonize sex and sexual attraction. There is nothing wrong with the comment that he made unless you think there's something wrong with liking a girl's butt.

 

[Carrill]

Sexualization is only appropriate when the character already has some sort of sexual nature to them. Morrigan from Darkstalkers and the Marvel Vs. Capcom series is a succubus and is known to be very sexual. I wouldn't complain about any fanservice dealing with her. Samus on the other hand has never been known as a sexual person.

Samus is an intergalactic bounty hunter who was trained by the Chozo. Given her superhuman training, It'd make more sense for her butt to be smaller and firmer since it'd show more evidence of her athleticism. A curvier, more feminine body doesn't suit her at all.

So yeah... In a lot of ways, Samus is being unnecessarily sexualized. I'll ignore it when I'm playing as her though.

The heels are just ugly and out of place. That's how I feel about those.

 

[ph00tbag]

I don't understand what's wrong with enjoying drawing a fictional butt. There's nothing wrong with liking Samus' butt or sex. Stop trying to demonize sex and sexual attraction. There is nothing wrong with the comment that he made unless you think there's something wrong with liking a girl's butt.

No one's saying a sexually appealing character, or a character who acts alluringly is inherently wrong. The issue here is that very few of the aesthetic decisions with ZSS's design make sense, or are consistent with her past characterization. Samus, as a rule, doesn't express her sexuality very overtly. Presumably, she doesn't much care for the notion of showing off. As a result, any device that focuses on how attractive she is feels a little creepy at best, and downright voyeuristic at worst. It's a sexual engagement with the character that isn't on their own terms, and that's objectification, since you deprive the character of their agency. You can argue that as a fictional character, they don't actually have agency, and they are subject to their creator's whims, but generally, in literary pursuits, embracing this notion is considered bad form. You have to provide an internally consistent reason for the character to demonstrate sexuality. That doesn't really happen with Samus, here.

Her relative voluptuousness is, at least, strange, given how athletic she is. I would assume she'd look more like Kacy Catanzaro, with another fourteen inches on her. Not that one cannot be both athletic and look like Samus does in these games, but the two tend to conflict. The heels don't make any sense, whatsoever, given that the only rationalization for their existence falls apart on observation that fictional jet boots don't need to be particularly high-heeled. They certainly aren't sexy, but putting a female character in heels without a really solid reason, in a situation where one can't picture that character wanting to wear heels suggests some kind of subtle misogyny to me. Usually, I'm not necessarily one to get too worked up about the way Samus is voiced, because if she happens to be a bit husky, who's to say that's not just her voice, but the way it's played up, and in the context of these other eyebrow-raising problems the game presents, it certainly doesn't look good.

There's two explanations, here. One, several inadvertent design mistakes were made that made for some strange characterization results, and they were not caught at any stage of production. Two, the consistent thread of objectification between all these strange things belies an actual consistent objectification of the character, and no one got called out for this objectification, because there's a systemic misogyny in the production staff.

 

[ihskeyp]

She has the heels, they aren't going anywhere until MAYBE the next metro if game. Arguing over whether they are too 'sexualized' or they 'don't fit her character' is pointless at this point.

 

[Carrill]

She has the heels, they aren't going anywhere until MAYBE the next metro if game. Arguing over whether they are too 'sexualized' or they 'don't fit her character' is pointless at this point.

I think it's a discussion worth having.

Besides, it's not like there was ever any chance of them actually going away because of what people thought.

 

[PikaSamus]

I don't understand what's wrong with enjoying drawing a fictional butt. There's nothing wrong with liking Samus' butt or sex. Stop trying to demonize sex and sexual attraction. There is nothing wrong with the comment that he made unless you think there's something wrong with liking a girl's butt.

I think it's referring to the whole image, actually, as all the other arrows face the other way.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Meanwhile, back at Sakurai's office...

I think he's just doing it to screw with us.

 

[Fafnir]

They look dumb and they don't fit her as a character. I'm not a fan of ZSS taking a combat role, but this goes beyond notions of sexualization.
As far as sexual context is concerned,I love everything about Bayonetta, especially the sexual aspects, but a lot of that has to do with her characterization fitting perfectly with that. On the other hand, ZSS heels, regardless of whatever functionality you spin them to have, just feel so blatantly out of place on her.

And as far as the artist showing interest in drawing her butt... Yeah. If you've ever drawn much of anything before, you'll find that some things are more interesting to draw than others. Likewise, other things... not so much. Anyone who's done life drawing with a model who wore a Prince Albert knows what I mean.

 

[The Monkey King]

I bet no one in this thread has a problem with Fire Emblem portraying soldiers as pretty boy male models, with no facial hair and perfect facial features complete with capes which make zero sense from a combat perspective as they inhibit movement and their opponent could easily choke them with it.

 

[Fafnir]

I bet no one in this thread has a problem with Fire Emblem portraying soldiers as pretty boy male models, with no facial hair and perfect facial features complete with capes which make zero sense from a combat perspective as they inhibit movement and their opponent could easily choke them with it.

But a female bounty hunter being physically attractive and having shoes to increase her mobility? Must mean the artist is a misogynistic women hater. /s

Fire Emblem's aesthetic is consistent with its world and characters. While it's packed with pretty boys and pretty girls wearing clean and flashy outfits, it's something that has always been part of the aesthetic, and always been the intention.

In the case of Samus, they go and change her from the 6'3", 200 lbs amazon that she is (and for what it's worth, not at all unattractive then either), into some 5'5" little pixie in a pair of the ugliest ****-me pumps this side of Zebes. The problem isn't sexualization itself, but rather that the way it's done completely betrays Samus' aesthetic and character; and in doing so, made her a lot less unique for it.

We like when Fire Emblem does what it does with its aesthetic because that's the way it's developed itself for so long, and the world it has built for itself.
For Samus, it doesn't mean that the artist is a misogynistic woman hater. It just means they're a crap artist (although it would usually be the art director making this kind of choice) trying to force in a crap artistic direction into the game for the sake of pandering. And it's here that it ends up feeling jarring and unnatural, a giant red thumb.

 

[FirestormNeos]

At this point Samus and ZSS might as well be different characters in terms of personality-- wait...

OH MY GOD, IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

#sakuraiisanevilgenius

 

[MegaMango]

I think it would be cool to see a DLC costume of Samus wearing her casual outfit from Other M. Then, sexualization wouldn't be an issue, and her heels could somewhat make sense and/or be concealed.

EDIT: INB4 Sakurai announces Young Zero Suit Samus as a clone DLC character.

 

[PikaSamus]

I think it would be cool to see a DLC costume of Samus wearing her casual outfit from Other M. Then, sexualization wouldn't be an issue, and her heels could somewhat make sense and/or be concealed.
-snip-

I don't know much about Other M (I don't like the idea of Metroid in 3D) other than the story, but isn't that her Galactic Federation uniform, or something of the sort?
EDIT: The second image didn't load for me >_<

 

[MegaMango]

I don't know much about Other M (I don't like the idea of Metroid in 3D) other than the story, but isn't that her Galactic Federation uniform, or something of the sort?
EDIT: The second image didn't load for me >_<

That's too bad... missing out on some quality games.

Anyways, yeah, that's her GF Military Dress. The second image had a "present day" version of her wearing civilian clothes that resembled her Military Dress. Immediate differences are: longer hair (she has it all down at one point), a longer jacket with long sleeves, and white boots.

 

[IsmaR]

The concept art shows she had an outfit under that, as well. Just a purple shirt, iirc.

 

[PikaSamus]

The concept art shows she had an outfit under that, as well. Just a purple shirt, iirc.

You remembered correctly.

 

[FirestormNeos]

You remembered correctly.

I didn't know a brawl mod had a concept art department

 

[BloderModer]

Not a fair comparison.

First, You're using a different definition of the word ugly. Something that is physically ugly is by definition less sexy than something that is not. I dare you to find anything that is both physically ugly and sexy. I'll wait. When you finally give up on your futile search, I'll be here to tell you that I told you so.

Secondly, Whether or not it is morally ugly is a completely different discussion altogether, not to mention completely off topic. However, there is a big difference between saying that something doesn't appeal to your aesthetic sense, and saying that it offends you morally. Twisting around definitions like that does not lead to any sort of rational discussion, nor does it really convince any reasonable person to see your point of view.

Thirdly, how can it be possibly be sexualization if it isn't sexy at all? It's impossible. Even if you were to say that sexualization is evil, you'd still have to admit that this is not sexualization. Any other conclusion would be little more than mindless witchhunting. That kind of attitude is more commonly found in KKK meetings and the Salem Witch Trials, not in any logical discourse.

The simple fact remains that the claim "These ugly heels are oversexualizing Samus" is a blatant and clear contradiction. This isn't exactly shaky logic. This is a pretty clear and concise formal proof. It is literally impossible to believe this unless you're willing to completely throw logic out of the window. The only thing you can argue about is whether or not the heels are actually ugly... which is somewhat subjective, but most people agree that they are. No matter how much you insist that sexualization is evil, it doesn't really change the fact that this is not sexualization, therefore making the argument against sexualization completely irrelevant to the discussion.

First: yes, it's a completely accurate adjective to describe tasteless forced sexualization. I don't even need to do a search. Just watch Nicki Minajs Anaconda video. I guess by your definition, it'd be compared to, I don't know, Claude Monet? But, hey, I don't mind Nicki Minaj or her crew, I don't listen to her music. What I do mind is uncharacteristic (and most of all: unnecessary) additions to a character that keeps alienating Metroid fans who thought of her as a subjectified heroine, not as an objectified sex object.

Secondly: You think this is about morals? I don't need to add anything here because my first paragraph explains it so well.

Thirdly: It is obvious sexualization. Here's an example why: Heels tend to give the wearer a lordosis-like posture. Men tend to like women wearing heels. Put two and two together. And oh, by the way, there's been overwhelming evidence coming from critics in this thread and other threads in ZSS subforum. Try to read their posts.

 

[ihskeyp]

First: yes, it's a completely accurate adjective to describe tasteless forced sexualization. I don't even need to do a search. Just watch Nicki Minajs Anaconda video. I guess by your definition, it'd be compared to, I don't know, Claude Monet? But, hey, I don't mind Nicki Minaj or her crew, I don't listen to her music. What I do mind is uncharacteristic (and most of all: unnecessary) additions to a character that keeps alienating Metroid fans who thought of her as a subjectified heroine, not as an objectified sex object.

Secondly: You think this is about morals? I don't need to add anything here because my first paragraph explains it so well.

Thirdly: It is obvious sexualization. Here's an example why: Heels tend to give the wearer a lordosis-like posture. Men tend to like women wearing heels. Put two and two together. And oh, by the way, there's been overwhelming evidence coming from critics in this thread and other threads in ZSS subforum. Try to read their posts.

They added heels to an already sexualized character. Zero Suit Samus has been sexualized from the day she was shown. I don't see how having heels is really that big of a deal considering she has always been either half naked or in a catsuit that shows off her butt and chest. Heels realy don't change much, considering she's still in the catsuit, her chest and butt are still shown off, it's the same as always just with different footwear. Metro is fans never complained in the old games when she'd pop-up as a half naked pixelated woman, but now that she's in heels DEAR LORD THATS SEXIST. I'm just confused by the people saying that it's a disgrace to the fans of the series event though it's been this way for a long long time.