Why the hate for the heels?

[FirestormNeos]

Maybe it's abuse, but not the "I want to vent my suffering to my sexual partner and screw with their feelings," so much as the "I have no regard for this person's life who just so happen " kind of abuse.

I don't know if you're aware of the concept of the Death of the Author. The gist of it is that in literary analysis, authorial intent is meaningless, because that can't be known except through the text.

As someone who wants to become a Game Designer/Film Director/Whoever's the one in charge of conveying the story, this concept scares me. Greatly.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Samus strong. Fully clothed now. Wear jet boots. Now stronger.

I swear some discussions give me the worst headaches.

Seriously though, does NO ONE remember that Samus is essentially a super-super enhanced super soldier, and has been since seven years old? Why would she have a problem wearing anything? I'm sure that Chozo DNA enhanced her balance too, so it's not like they're impractical for her to wear.
Plus, she obviously focuses on kicks for physical attacks, and heels sure as hell are gonna hurt.
Besides, jet boots. At least they do SOMETHING, and aren't just there to be there.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Yeah - the practicality/balance argument really doesn't hold up when in-game footage quite literally shows that she has no problems whatsoever using them effectively.

 

[Brendan Stepladder]

As somebody who was originally a heel-hater, I think they're awesome now.

I originally thought they were just going to make ZSS look more like a sex object, but seeing her in action now only makes her look more dynamic and less like a character whose main property is being hot.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Yeah - the practicality/balance argument really doesn't hold up when in-game footage quite literally shows that she has no problems whatsoever using them effectively.

AND those heels are not just solid bricks:

Imagine if they would actually be just solid heels that wouldn't bend like that. THEN it would be a bad choice. So, everyone who can at least stand and walk could wear them without any problems. So, no Chozo training is required for them. BUT NOOOOOOOO, they are HEELS, HEELS ARE BAAAAAAD! Even though we have Raiden and enough men in the past who was wearing them. They wasn't some kind of jet boots. Those heels they was wearing was just heels. But when you have Samus wearing PRACTICAL heels instead of just impractical heels like Raiden and those guys, everyone goes insane!

Why Captain Falcon lacks thread like this? He is even worse - just look at him and dare to say that he doesn't looks too manly. You just can't say that about the manly Captain Falcon himself. Why this debate/discussion/whatever even exists? Who will care about that in the actual gameplay? Just ignore that or just don't use ZSS. Seriously, there is more discussion of that stuff that ZSS gameplay discussion.

 

[FirestormNeos]

When you see a complete stranger wearing heels in public, do you yell at her for being a "sexist representation of women"?

If not, treat Samus like a human being and not as Nintendo's pet.
If yes, I sure hope that poor soul filed a restraining order.

 

[Druxonol]

When you see a complete stranger wearing heels in public, do you yell at her for being a "sexist representation of women"?

If not, treat Samus like a human being and not as Nintendo's pet.
If yes, I sure hope that poor soul filed a restraining order.

That's poor reasoning. It's sexist because the only reason for Samus to wear heels and not something practical like boots is titillate people. Samus isn't a person, she's a character, and wearing heels is something that's out of character with how Samus was portrayed in her other games.

It would be like if Nintendo included a shirtless Snake costume to appeal to women. I haven't played the entire Metal Gear series, but I'm pretty sure that going into combat without anything to cover his chest is not something that he would normally do. The only purpose of that would be to increase his sex appeal, just like the heels for Samus.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

That's poor reasoning. It's sexist because the only reason for Samus to wear heels and not something practical like boots is titillate people. Samus isn't a person, she's a character, and wearing heels is something that's out of character with how Samus was portrayed in her other games.

It would be like if Nintendo included a shirtless Snake costume to appeal to women. I haven't played the entire Metal Gear series, but I'm pretty sure that going into combat without anything to cover his chest is not something that he would normally do. The only purpose of that would be to increase his sex appeal, just like the heels for Samus.

Well, Metal Gear Solid 3 and Peace Walker do both provide costumes that let Snake walk around without a top on.

I'd say it's pretty clear that Samus' sex appeal was intended to be a focal point for her model in Smash 4. I just don't think the heels warrant the amount of controversy that revolves around them. It might seem out of character for her, but as I understand it, we'd seen very little of her character in the games until Other M and the general perception of Samus' personality before then was based on gameplay that involved very little of her actual personality. I don't think her wearing rocket heels to boost her combat effectiveness directly contradicts anything we've been told about who she is and her preferences. If I'm wrong here or am missing something, feel free to let me know.

 

[FirestormNeos]

That's poor reasoning. It's sexist because the only reason for Samus to wear heels and not something practical like boots is titillate people. Samus isn't a person, she's a character, and wearing heels is something that's out of character with how Samus was portrayed in her other games.

It would be like if Nintendo included a shirtless Snake costume to appeal to women. I haven't played the entire Metal Gear series, but I'm pretty sure that going into combat without anything to cover his chest is not something that he would normally do. The only purpose of that would be to increase his sex appeal, just like the heels for Samus.

Pretty sure that's the same reason why a lot of people wear heels. Boots? Boots are for poor people like Link. Samus is probably filthy rich from the missions she's performed; I'd say she's earned her integrity-compromising footwear.

Also,

>Nintendo
>Solid Snake
>Nintendo
>Not Konami
>mfw

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Edit: Never mind.

 

[Druxonol]

Well, Metal Gear Solid 3 and Peace Walker do both provide costumes that let Snake walk around without a top on.

I'd say it's pretty clear that Samus' sex appeal was intended to be a focal point for her model in Smash 4. I just don't think the heels warrant the amount of controversy that revolves around them. It might seem out of character for her, but as I understand it, we'd seen very little of her character in the games until Other M and the general perception of Samus' personality before then was based on gameplay that involved very little of her actual personality. I don't think her wearing rocket heels to boost her combat effectiveness directly contradicts anything we've been told about who she is and her preferences. If I'm wrong here or am missing something, feel free to let me know.

I did not know that about Snake, but my argument could easily apply to someone else. Look at those things. They could easily snag or terrain, they would be easy for a quick opponent to grab, and they stick out like a sore thumb. They're impractical. They may not directly contradict Samus' personality, but they contradict how she's been shown in most of her games.

Pretty sure that's the same reason why a lot of people wear heels. Boots? Boots are for poor people like Link. Samus is probably filthy rich from the missions she's performed; I'd say she's earned her integrity-compromising footwear.

Also,

>Nintendo
>Solid Snake
>Nintendo
>Not Konami
>mfw

By "integrity-compromising" you mean "spine damaging," right? It seems pretty out of character for Samus, someone who kills for a living, to wear something that would eventually make her a less effective killer. Also, at no point in the games do we ever see her collecting a big bounty. I'm not sure what your last "point" is, but nothing would stop Nintendo from giving Snake an extra costume (if he's ever confirmed), because he is/would be in their game. That still doesn't affect my argument, because it could be applied to someone like Link or Marth.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

They could easily snag or terrain, they would be easy for a quick opponent to grab, and they stick out like a sore thumb. They're impractical. They may not directly contradict Samus' personality, but they contradict how she's been shown in most of her games.

Well, sure, those things could happen if this was reality we were talking about, but the fact is that their in-game purpose is improving her combat effectiveness, which is observable in her buffed gameplay. The way I see it, it makes more sense to say that they won't snag on anything or be grabbed by an opponent because she's proficient enough with them to not let that happen; that she's a badass that can take something that others might find impractical and use them to maximise her abilities in battle. A heel to the face would hurt a lot more than a flat sole would.

 

[ihskeyp]

She's a bounty hunter who fights a big purple dragon. If high heels are too 'unrealistic' for her than I don't want to know what is realistic.
If she was wearing like stilettos I'd understand the outrage, but wtf guys they have jets in them, and they're all bendy.

 

[Rockaphin]

I actually like the idea of the heels. I think they look nice so no complaints from me. I mean, those are some badass heels.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Look at those things. They could easily snag or terrain, they would be easy for a quick opponent to grab, and they stick out like a sore thumb. They're impractical.

Did you not see the photo?

It seems pretty out of character for Samus, someone who kills for a living, to wear something that would eventually make her a less effective killer.

It seems pretty out of character for King Dedede, someone who's always been selfish, to try and stop Tabuu's plot when he'd have nothing to gain from doing so...

But Sakurai did it anyway.

Also, at no point in the games do we ever see her collecting a big bounty.

How else do you explain where she keeps getting new ships? She stole them? They all look like her helmet!

I'm not sure what your last "point" is, but nothing would stop Nintendo from giving Snake an extra costume (if he's ever confirmed), because he is/would be in their game. That still doesn't affect my argument, because it could be applied to someone like Link or Marth.

= <- The Joke.

O <- Your head.

Spoiler: WARNING- I EXPLAIN THE JOKE

That was a joke poking fun at the fact that you did not clarify what game you were referring to, which could lead to people thinking you were talking about the actual MGS games. Nintendo does not make the MGS games, thus the joke.

 

[IsmaR]

Okay, you guys can hate heels now. Bigger fish to fry, etc. etc.

 

[FirestormNeos]

This just in: PANIC.

 

[Shiliski]

That's poor reasoning. It's sexist because the only reason for Samus to wear heels and not something practical like boots is titillate people. Samus isn't a person, she's a character, and wearing heels is something that's out of character with how Samus was portrayed in her other games.

It would be like if Nintendo included a shirtless Snake costume to appeal to women. I haven't played the entire Metal Gear series, but I'm pretty sure that going into combat without anything to cover his chest is not something that he would normally do. The only purpose of that would be to increase his sex appeal, just like the heels for Samus.

Shirtless Sephiroth exists in Dissidia, and I don't care. Shirtless Little Mac exists in Smash, and I don't care. Go ahead and put in shirtless Snake. It's nothing that I don't already see when I go to a beach or water park.

The only thing sexist about heels is that they are gender-exclusive wear. They are not titillating or even remotely sexy at all. Anyone who thinks those bendy tech-heels are sexy has a very specific fetish. Saying that they exist to titillate people when they fail at doing that exact thing just... I don't know how I'm supposed to give that argument any credibility.

If you were complaining about Riven's Bunny Suit or Nurse Akali (both from LoL), then sure, obvious fetish wear is obvious. However, we're not talking about that. We're talking about some tech-heels. This is no different from giving Rosalina a dress, or giving Mario a tuxedo.

For that note, the sports bra isn't that titillating either. If you are seriously drooling over a sports bra then you lack a basic respect for women. They have the right to go to a gym and work out and not be ogled by strangers. If you want to say that such people exist who would do that, well okay, but don't act like that's the majority or even a significant minority of males.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Shirtless Sephiroth exists in Dissidia, and I don't care. Shirtless Little Mac exists in Smash, and I don't care. Go ahead and put in shirtless Snake. It's nothing that I don't already see when I go to a beach or water park.

Shirtless Snake? Wasn't he already shirtless? He certainly looked like it.

If you were complaining about Riven's Bunny Suit or Nurse Akali (both from LoL), then sure, obvious fetish wear is obvious. However, we're not talking about that. We're talking about some tech-heels. This is no different from giving Rosalina a dress, or giving Mario a tuxedo.

As someone who plays LoL, I think you're leaving out a couple examples. Going through the Lol Wiki, my RAM went to hell from trying to list them all. Good word, that game has a truckload of fanservice.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Zamus' design is very tame compared to the majority of the female LoL roster.

 

[kuk]

The reason the heels are wrong is because she didn't have them from the start - they were ADDED for one reason and one reason only - to make her look sexier.

Males usually don't get such makeovers in order to increase sex appeal.

And come on, the boost feature is just a bad excuse. She could have had a boost feature in her regular shoes as well.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

The reason the heels are wrong is because she didn't have them from the start - they were ADDED for one reason and one reason only - to make her look sexier.

Males usually don't get such makeovers in order to increase sex appeal.

And come on, the boost feature is just a bad excuse. She could have had a boost feature in her regular shoes as well.

We can't know the thought process of the designers exactly, but I do struggle to see how the heels make her look "sexier". I believe Sakurai's insinuation that she was given new footwear for the purposes of providing her attacks with extra power (they seemed to think she was lacking power in Brawl); not for the purposes of sexualising her. The fact that they gave her heels does direct focus towards her femininity, but she is a female with an already feminine design; giving her footwear that is consistent with this just kind of... makes sense. There are many examples of fictional female fighters wearing heels in the past; they would hurt a hell of a lot more than a flat sole would due to the sharper point. It's not necessary, and they could've given her flat boots, but the heels themselves are not sexist and I don't think I've seen a single person saying that these particular heels are "sexy" (though some probably think so).

 

[ihskeyp]

The reason the heels are wrong is because she didn't have them from the start - they were ADDED for one reason and one reason only - to make her look sexier.

Males usually don't get such makeovers in order to increase sex appeal.

And come on, the boost feature is just a bad excuse. She could have had a boost feature in her regular shoes as well.

I still don't understand how adding a stick to the girls heel makes her extra sexy. I mean, she's already wearing a skin tight suit.
Even if it was to make her sexier, she is still less sexualized than in early games when she was half naked.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Zamus' design is very tame compared to the majority of the female LoL roster.

ZSS could be buck-****ing-naked and still wouldn't be as fanservicey as half the LoL roster.

 

[Shiliski]

I still don't understand how adding a stick to the girls heel makes her extra sexy. I mean, she's already wearing a skin tight suit.
Even if it was to make her sexier, she is still less sexualized than in early games when she was half naked.

Heels are supposed to make women's feet seem smaller, make their legs seem longer, and change the body posture so that the butt sticks out more. Whether or not Samus's heels actually accomplish that is up for debate.

Though I will certainly point out that they aren't making her feet look small. They actually kinda make her feet look big, which probably has something to do with why they're ugly.

Also, a lot of people seem to forget that, as you pointed out, Samus has always been sexualized. A skin-tight suit is actually a step away from Samus being sexualized, not towards it. The notion that Samus is being increasingly sexualized flies against the historical fact that she has always been sexualized, and the extent of her sexualization has decreased as society's standards have become more restrictive. The only way anyone would make that particular argument is if they were either ignorant of the facts, or choosing to ignore the facts.

 

[kuk]

We can't know the thought process of the designers exactly, but I do struggle to see how the heels make her look "sexier". I believe Sakurai's insinuation that she was given new footwear for the purposes of providing her attacks with extra power (they seemed to think she was lacking power in Brawl); not for the purposes of sexualising her. The fact that they gave her heels does direct focus towards her femininity, but she is a female with an already feminine design; giving her footwear that is consistent with this just kind of... makes sense. There are many examples of fictional female fighters wearing heels in the past; they would hurt a hell of a lot more than a flat sole would due to the sharper point. It's not necessary, and they could've given her flat boots, but the heels themselves are not sexist and I don't think I've seen a single person saying that these particular heels are "sexy" (though some probably think so).

Well, each to their own beliefs, but I think they gave her heels because she had them in Other M - and we all know how people reacted to those. So in order to "get away" with them again, they added a practical function - as rocket boots. I argue though that it's just an excuse to keep her "heeled". And heels are a symbol of femininity and sexiness.

Heels are supposed to make women's feet seem smaller, make their legs seem longer, and change the body posture so that the butt sticks out more. Whether or not Samus's heels actually accomplish that is up for debate.

Though I will certainly point out that they aren't making her feet look small. They actually kinda make her feet look big, which probably has something to do with why they're ugly.

Also, a lot of people seem to forget that, as you pointed out, Samus has always been sexualized. A skin-tight suit is actually a step away from Samus being sexualized, not towards it. The notion that Samus is being increasingly sexualized flies against the historical fact that she has always been sexualized, and the extent of her sexualization has decreased as society's standards have become more restrictive. The only way anyone would make that particular argument is if they were either ignorant of the facts, or choosing to ignore the facts.

After seeing her butt in SSB4, I would say it's safe to assume the heels accomplished THAT mission.

About historical sexualization:

It's true that she's been removing her clothes in the past as you finished the games fast. However, this was when graphics were 8 and 16 bit - there was not much to see anyway. With the introduction of Metroid Fusion, we got hi resolution arts, which changed everything. This was the start of truly sexualising her character, I would say. Shortly after Zero Mission came. Did you see the Japanese commercial for Zero Mission? THAT is sexualization, and it also explains the few butt shots in that game.

What I'm saying is that sexualization in older titles were very tame thanks to primitive graphics. So even though the zero suit does cover more skin than a thong bikini, it's still more sexulized because of vast improvement in graphics.

It's the same reason why today's FPS games are a lot more violent than those in the past - the graphics in the past depicted cut off heads, but the visuals were so poor that it didn't look that bad.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Well, each to their own beliefs, but I think they gave her heels because she had them in Other M - and we all know how people reacted to those. So in order to "get away" with them again, they added a practical function - as rocket boots. I argue though that it's just an excuse to keep her "heeled".

You're totally right; the Other M design slipped my mind at the time. The fact that her design in that game had heels would certainly have driven their inclusion in Smash 4. I suppose I'll amend my belief to be that the heels in her Other M design, her need for more fighting power than in Brawl and her inherent femininity all pointed towards rocket heels being a convenient solution.

 

[FirestormNeos]

@ TeaTwoTime What you said pretty much proved it makes sense giving her heels.

And heels are a symbol of femininity and sexiness.

In English class, I would have to prove that with an entire goddamn essay. I'd probably get a ****ing A on it, too.

After seeing her butt in SSB4, I would say it's safe to assume the heels accomplished THAT mission.

And you were staring in that area because... why?

It's true that she's been removing her clothes in the past as you finished the games fast. However, this was when graphics were 8 and 16 bit - there was not much to see anyway.

But there's also official artwork and other details, and that would bring the outfits right back to fanservice territory,

With the introduction of Metroid Fusion, we got hi resolution arts, which changed everything. This was the start of truly sexualising her character, I would say.

Then, everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

Shortly after Zero Mission came. Did you see the Japanese commercial for Zero Mission? THAT is sexualization.

wait, what commercial?

What I'm saying is that sexualization in older titles were very tame thanks to primitive graphics.

By that logic, Custard's Revenge isn't related to sex in any way whatsoever.

So even though the zero suit does cover more skin than a thong bikini, it's still more sexulized because of vast improvement in graphics.

So by the time the PlayStation 17 rolls around, this will no longer be sexualized? What kind of sense does that make?

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Shirtless Snake? Wasn't he already shirtless? He certainly looked like it.

Shirtless naked snake here and accounted for

 

[FirestormNeos]

Shirtless naked snake here and accounted for

what up with the duct tape? Is that a military thing, or is the whole "Snake is a robot" thing not quite as farfetched as I thought after all?

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

what up with the duct tape? Is that a military thing, or is the whole "Snake is a robot" thing not quite as farfetched as I thought after all?

Never played a metal gear game i see, its actually bandages from wounds he got, in metal gear solid 3 you needed to treat all your wounds as you got them. But he could also go almost full commando in peace walker

 

[Shiliski]

What I'm saying is that sexualization in older titles were very tame thanks to primitive graphics. So even though the zero suit does cover more skin than a thong bikini, it's still more sexulized because of vast improvement in graphics.

As a hetero male who was an immature teenager at the time of Super Metroid, I can assure you that they were not tame.

Our eyes adjusted to the resolution that was available. Sure, it looks blocky and pixelated now, but back then it was the peak of graphical achievement.

 

[kuk]

And you were staring in that area because... why?

I didn't stare, a quick glance is enough to tell. My question to you now is why you ask me such a question? Almost as you accuse me for something you made up out of thin air.

But there's also official artwork and other details, and that would bring the outfits right back to fanservice territory,

I can't recall a single artwork of her bikini back in the 90s. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

wait, what commercial?

The crawling-through-a-tunnel-with-her-butt-in-the-air commercial. Just YouTube "zero mission japanese commercial" and you'll find it.

By that logic, Custard's Revenge isn't related to sex in any way whatsoever.

I never said it wasn't related. I said it was very tame, and that goes for CR, too. Now imagine if they remade CR with current gen graphics... it would be completely different.

So by the time the PlayStation 17 rolls around, this will no longer be sexualized? What kind of sense does that make?

No sense at all because your comparison is flawed. The graphics developers can make today are almost photo realistic. Sure graphics can still improve, but not in the same way they improved the last 20 years. Not even nearly in the same way.

As a hetero male who was an immature teenager at the time of Super Metroid, I can assure you that they were not tame.

Our eyes adjusted to the resolution that was available. Sure, it looks blocky and pixelated now, but back then it was the peak of graphical achievement.

So how do you think teenagers today react to hi resolution arts? The same as you did back in those days, or stronger?

 

[FirestormNeos]

Never played a metal gear game i see, its actually bandages from wounds he got, in metal gear solid 3 you needed to treat all your wounds as you got them. But he could also go almost full commando in peace walker

Oh good, I was worried about that whole "Snake's a Robot" thing. *shudders*

The crawling-through-a-tunnel-with-her-butt-in-the-air commercial. Just YouTube "zero mission japanese commercial" and you'll find it.

Links or it didn't happen.

I never said it wasn't related. I said it was very tame, and that goes for CR, too. Now imagine if they remade CR with current gen graphics... it would be completely different.

Oh please, do you honestly expect me to believe a woman in a sports bra and shorts in full HD is more gratuitous then pixels going in a particular pattern that even a four-year-old could easily interpret as on-screen sex?

So how do you think teenagers today react to hi resolution arts? The same as you did back in those days, or stronger?

The former.

 

[Shiliski]

So how do you think teenagers today react to hi resolution arts? The same as you did back in those days, or stronger?

I think the overabundance of hentai artwork would cause the modern teen to be desensitized to such things.

So probably less strongly, actually. Unless they don't know how to access such sites, then it should be... about the same?

 

[IsmaR]

wait, what commercial?

Links or it didn't happen.

Spoiler

I think the overabundance of hentai artwork would cause the modern teen to be desensitized to such things.

So probably less strongly, actually. Unless they don't know how to access such sites, then it should be... about the same?

No amount of anything would desensitize anybody from such things. Hell, there's people/kids nowadays feeling this towards WFT of all things.

And she's barefoot. Still not seeing how the heels matter at all in this respect.

 

[Shiliski]

No amount of anything would desensitize anybody from such things. Hell, there's people/kids nowadays feeling this towards WFT of all things.

And she's barefoot. Still not seeing how the heels matter at all in this respect.

I disagree. People will still have "thoughts" about Samus, sure, but I doubt that the image of a skin tight suit with heels is going to be as exciting if it isn't the first time you've seen it.

Some people think that way about Imp-form Midna. Enjoy the mental image. That said, the WFT thing was new to me, though I'm not surprised. Uncanny valley doesn't stop anyone it seems.

As for the heels... they don't matter at all. Which was the point of the topic to begin with. Heels are not inherently worse than... say... dresses. Except that these heels are ugly, so they matter even less.

 

[kuk]

I think the overabundance of hentai artwork would cause the modern teen to be desensitized to such things.

So probably less strongly, actually. Unless they don't know how to access such sites, then it should be... about the same?

That's a good point, but let's say they don't visit such sites. Since the graphics are much more realistic, I strongly believe she'll leave a much stronger impact when she's in HD and all polygon.

 

[Shiliski]

That's a good point, but let's say they don't visit such sites. Since the graphics are much more realistic, I strongly believe she'll leave a much stronger impact when she's in HD and all polygon.

Well, something like that will be very hard to quantify. There's no easy way to prove or disprove that at all.

 

[kuk]

Well, something like that will be very hard to quantify. There's no easy way to prove or disprove that at all.

Right.

So if we go back to talk about her heels, from a developer's perspective, why do you think they were implemented?