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Why should Zelda one-shots and Mario spin-off characters be playable in Smash?

Quillion

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From several discussions I've had about Smash, some people tend to think that Mario spin-off characters (like Waluigi and Geno) and Zelda one-shots (like the Champions and Skull Kid) are being treated unfairly by Smash, often being relegated to Assist Trophy status at best.

But honestly, I find that treatment fair. Zelda one-shots and Mario spin-off characters alike aren't important to their series as a whole. But since they are popular, they deserve to be acknowledged as Assists; it's a fair compromise between their lack of importance and their popularity. Despite that, some people will die on the hill that these two groups deserve to have representatives on the playable roster. Why should they be playable when both series can better focus on recurring main and maybe secondary characters?

Before you say "Piranha Plant", at least it is a main series Mario character. And before you say "Fire Emblem gets one-shots", Fire Emblem's one-shots are more important to their series than their recurring counterparts (of which there is only Anna). Just want to shut down those two arguments.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Mario doesn't really have a canon or main series, Odyssey and World are no more or less canon than Kart or Party, and if they were they'd probably be less - it's a Simpsons/SpongeBob deal, floating timelines where characters get into different wacky hijinx every week and rarely if ever bring it up again. Think of it as like if Smash was about cartoons...

Homer Simpson (Mario analogy) is a main character, therefore he can naturally be included
Mr. Burns (Bowser analogy) is the central antagonist, therefore he can naturally be included
Hans Moleman (Waluigi analogy) is a character with no plot relevance, but since the Simpsons isn't a show focused on plot and Hans Moleman does make frequest appearances, he would still be fair to include
Hank Scorpio (Geno analogy) only appeared in one episode, but made a lasting impression and has a big fanbase, putting him in a grey area of sorts - though there is an argument for his inclusion

Zelda I can't really speak in confidence for, but Zelda's games take on a variety of different tones that would hard to fully represent with only recurring characters, (especially since almost every game stars a different reincarnation of Link and Zelda) and the one off characters people tend to request are usually plot-relevant.
 
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xzx

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Does Paper Mario count as a Mario spin-off? I mean, yeah, the Paper Mario series is a spin-off to the Super Mario series, but Paper Mario is the protagonist in all 6 Paper Mario games. It is also canon that Paper Mario is not the real Mario, as shown by Paper Mario and Mario working together (with Luigi ofc) in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam Bros.

If we compare Paper Mario to Rosalina then Rosalina is just an important side-character in the Super Mario Galaxy games with appearences in multiplayer Mario games. Paper Mario on the other hand has a whole series going for him where he is the main character. So if Rosalina can get in, then Paper Mario definitely has a chance too.

For me it is just absurd that Paper Mario hasn't got in yet in the Smash series and that Rosalina and even Piranha Plant got in before him. But Sakurai doesn't pick characters "just to represent", as many tend to believe, rather he wants to include characters that are fun to play too. Paper Mario definitely would be a fun character to play with a really unique moveset to boot.
 

Quillion

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Mario doesn't really have a canon, Odyssey and World are no more or less canon than Kart or Party, and if they were they'd probably be less - it's a Simpsons/SpongeBob deal, floating timelines where characters get into different wacky hijinx every week and rarely if ever bring it up again. Think of it as like if Smash was about cartoons...

Homer Simpson (Mario analogy) is a main character, therefore he can naturally be included
Mr. Burns (Bowser analogy) is the central antagonist, therefore he can naturally be included
Hans Moleman (Waluigi analogy) is a character with no plot relevance, but since the Simpsons isn't a show focused on plot and Hans Moleman does make frequest appearances, he would still be fair to include
Hank Scorpio (Geno analogy) only appeared in one episode, but made a lasting impression and has a big fanbase, putting him in a grey area of sorts - though there is an argument for his inclusion

Zelda I can't really speak in confidence for, but Zelda's games take on a variety of different tones that would hard to fully represent with only recurring characters, (especially since almost every game stars a different reincarnation of Link and Zelda) and the one off characters people tend to request are usually plot-relevant.
There may not be a timeline, but there's still a main series and spinoffs. I don't think that analogy really works since all of those characters are part of the Simpsons cartoon and not any spin-off media.

Does Paper Mario count as a Mario spin-off? I mean, yeah, the Paper Mario series is a spin-off to the Super Mario series, but Paper Mario is the protagonist in all 6 Paper Mario games. It is also canon that Paper Mario is not the real Mario, as shown by Paper Mario and Mario working together (with Luigi ofc) in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam Bros.

If we compare Paper Mario to Rosalina then Rosalina is just an important side-character in the Super Mario Galaxy games with appearences in multiplayer Mario games. Paper Mario on the other hand has a whole series going for him where he is the main character. So if Rosalina can get in, then Paper Mario definitely has a chance too.

For me it is just absurd that Paper Mario hasn't got in yet in the Smash series and that Rosalina and even Piranha Plant got in before him. But Sakurai doesn't pick characters "just to represent", as many tend to believe, rather he wants to include characters that are fun to play too. Paper Mario definitely would be a fun character to play with a really unique moveset to boot.
Sakurai may not have said anything about it, but his actions have proven that he has had a preference for not having any spin-off characters be playable.
 

Oracle Link

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So let me show you some Chars That arent one shot and still arent in smash!

Was in every Zelda outside of Tp which is more impresive Than Pirahna Plant!
Is a really major Character that is MUUUUUUUUCH more important than shiek
Was in Zelda Oot, MM, Tp, Hw and Cadence while The mask got a lot of cameos and even if you say that the species doesnt count he is still 100% in Oot mm, Cadence and HW

Only apeared in Galaxy 1+2 and Sm3dW Every other apearence is Spinoffmaterial

But you may say Spin offs count yes they do but mario is the biggest Game franchise Therefore it has the most spinoffs Skullkid appeared in most Zelda Spinoffs so Does Rosalina making Both The exact same ammount of Important
 
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UserKev

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Fan demand is enough reason alone. Smash is turning into a fan service IP, might as well go out. Spin-off but recurring characters are more merited than one off characters.

You can def expect Waluigi and highly possibly Geno at some point, bud.
 

Quillion

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Is there really such a thing as "canon" and "spin-off" though? I doubt it. For me, a game equals a game, and Super Mario 3D Land is no more "canon" than, say, Mario Kart Double Dash. So, why not?
Maybe not canon, but there is a main series. Double Dash just doesn't have the same prestige as 3D Land.
 

xzx

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There may not be a timeline, but there's still a main series and spinoffs. I don't think that analogy really works since all of those characters are part of the Simpsons cartoon and not any spin-off media.



Sakurai may not have said anything about it, but his actions have proven that he has had a preference for not having any spin-off characters be playable.
But he clearly chose Rosalina, a spin-off character? Rosalina is more spin-off than Paper Mario ever will be, yet she was included. (Yes, Rosalina is a playable character in other Mario games but still.) Aside from fan-service, Sakurai's #1 reason to make a fighter is that they should be fun to play as, nothing else.
 

Quillion

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I don't know where that comes from. Daisy's "prestige" is due to the sport and party games, not from her two-seconds appearance in Mario Land. And even if it wasn't the case, Mario Kart is still way more "prestigious" than several franchises with playable characters.
What I mean is that the spin-offs are meant to be super-accessible games for parties or with friends, while the Mario main series are (relatively) more serious works of art, which is why the latter is more consistently innovative.

And while Daisy is best-known for being a spin-off character, she is still primarily based around her one main-series appearance, which was being a stand-in for Peach, albeit with her spin-off personality.

But he clearly chose Rosalina, a spin-off character? Rosalina is more spin-off than Paper Mario ever will be, yet she was included. (Yes, Rosalina is a playable character in other Mario games but still.) Aside from fan-service, Sakurai's #1 reason to make a fighter is that they should be fun to play as, nothing else.
Rosalina is a main series character; I don't know where you get the idea that she's a spin-off character.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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the Mario main series are (relatively) more serious works of art
What are you on about? Have you been touching Fuzzy and getting dizzy?

Rosalina is a main series character; I don't know where you get the idea that she's a spin-off character.
Four main series appearances, one playable but not plot relevant, one plot relevant but not playable, two cameos. Only slightly, marginally more important than Daisy or Waluigi.
 
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Quillion

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What are you on about? Have you been touching Fuzzy and getting dizzy?
I mean more serious not in the "Dark Souls" way, but more in that they clearly put a lot more thought and effort into designing the Mario main series compared to the spin-offs.
 

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Super Mario is definitely not "more serious". They've always been lighthearted. The only sub-series to have anywhere near dark moments are the rpg's. There's barely anything dark in the core series(which mind you, Super Mario Maker is a core game. And it has zero story. Same as Super Mario Land 1 and 2) to begin with.

Hell, there's sometimes a darker story in the Party games since the first 6 actually had their own story modes. The sub-series/spin-offs get way more darker and serious overall than the main series ever has.

So no, that's not remotely correct. In reality, the main series is really damn lighthearted. That's their point. They're super accessible to everyone. The RPG's are the only sub-series that don't rely on this and have sometimes very touchy controls in general, as well as have proper storytelling, allowing for rather dark moments. The Thousand Year Door got pretty damn dark alone, and SMRPG was hardly "light" either.

------------

Also, to reply to the latest one? Nope. They put massively strong designs in all flavors of the game, with different purposes in general. Party is meant to appeal to multiplayer, but constantly has had a strong story mode. There's no "more effort" in general. They're done by different teams, and they generally put a ton of effort into the entire Super Mario series. One isn't more special than the other. Hell, even the CD-i game has outright cutscenes, which require a lot of work(as silly as they look, they are impressive for their time).

I don't really agree with the idea there shouldn't be a core story in the Super Mario series, but that's Miyamoto's choice as the creator anyway. Yes, we have a list of main series and spin-offs. Spin-offs still are clearly a part of Smash, and Dr. Mario is already as the start of them. If Sakurai didn't want them, he wouldn't have put Dr. Marrio in. No, him being a clone doesn't matter because it means he would've ignored the easy work cause of spin-off bias. He didn't because he doesn't actually care if it's a spin-off or not. Mario's canon is "anything goes". That's literally it. It's the Zelda canon that is wayyyyyyyy more important to Nintendo in general, though we honestly don't know if Sakurai cares about that. Why he doesn't put in one-offs besides Sheik is unknown. Albeit, she came with Zelda as a pair(the entire concept was based around both getting in. So at the time, it was both or nothing. Zelda would've clearly made it into Brawl, though, but she might've been way different in abilities, even having her rapier).
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I mean more serious not in the "Dark Souls" way, but more in that they clearly put a lot more thought and effort into designing the Mario main series compared to the spin-offs.
That makes no sense. The Mario spin-offs do tend to be mechanically complex - Tennis Aces being a standout example, given it's basically a mini-traditional fighting game and arguably more complex than the main series.
 

Quillion

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Also, to reply to the latest one? Nope. They put massively strong designs in all flavors of the game, with different purposes in general. Party is meant to appeal to multiplayer, but constantly has had a strong story mode. There's no "more effort" in general. They're done by different teams, and they generally put a ton of effort into the entire Super Mario series. One isn't more special than the other. Hell, even the CD-i game has outright cutscenes, which require a lot of work(as silly as they look, they are impressive for their time).
That makes no sense. The Mario spin-offs do tend to be mechanically complex - Tennis Aces being a standout example, given it's basically a mini-traditional fighting game and arguably more complex than the main series.
Sure I can't really deny either of those, but there is a reason why Mario's main series is entirely internal at Nintendo EPD while the spin-offs are entirely (Kart aside) farmed out to many development partners and outside studios. They're never going to let a partner or outside studio touch the main series.

I don't really agree with the idea there shouldn't be a core story in the Super Mario series, but that's Miyamoto's choice as the creator anyway. Yes, we have a list of main series and spin-offs. Spin-offs still are clearly a part of Smash, and Dr. Mario is already as the start of them. If Sakurai didn't want them, he wouldn't have put Dr. Marrio in. No, him being a clone doesn't matter because it means he would've ignored the easy work cause of spin-off bias. He didn't because he doesn't actually care if it's a spin-off or not. Mario's canon is "anything goes". That's literally it. It's the Zelda canon that is wayyyyyyyy more important to Nintendo in general, though we honestly don't know if Sakurai cares about that. Why he doesn't put in one-offs besides Sheik is unknown. Albeit, she came with Zelda as a pair(the entire concept was based around both getting in. So at the time, it was both or nothing. Zelda would've clearly made it into Brawl, though, but she might've been way different in abilities, even having her rapier).
Well, Sakurai did consider James Bond, but after that fell through he swore off non-video game characters entirely. It's possible that they're leaving Doc and Sheik around solely for legacy purposes while other Mario spin-off characters and Zelda one-shots are relegated to assists at best due to the team swearing them off as being playable from that point on.
 

White Frost

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Sure I can't really deny either of those, but there is a reason why Mario's main series is entirely internal at Nintendo EPD while the spin-offs are entirely (Kart aside) farmed out to many development partners and outside studios. They're never going to let a partner or outside studio touch the main series.
This has nothing to do with Smash whatsoever. It's purely a rule for how the Super Mario series work. That's it. This was also made well after Smash already had spin-off characters.

Well, Sakurai did consider James Bond, but after that fell through he swore off non-video game characters entirely. It's possible that they're leaving Doc and Sheik around solely for legacy purposes while other Mario spin-off characters and Zelda one-shots are relegated to assists at best due to the team swearing them off as being playable from that point on.
Correction: We have no knowledge of when he swore of non-game characters until 4. He said James Bond wasn't doable for licensing reasons. Once 4 hit, he noted they weren't doable, but also when a Smash Ballot was happening. He could've easily have considered them during Brawl as well, but didn't go with it(again, for licensing reasons).

It's not that simple. Doctor Mario was not put into Brawl either, despite being a damn easy clone to do(easier than anyone else), meaning he was just low priority. He almost became a costume in 4. It's more that he really doesn't care if they're from a spin-off or not nor is there any evidence he legitimately does. Doctor Mario became a full character again from a costume in 4 because of legacy reasons. He was already going to be in Brawl and 4 in some way regardless, cause he's damn easy to do.

Sheik got into Brawl because there was art created for/already available(Hyrule HIstoria is awkward on its wording. It's suggesting they considered Sheik for Twilight Princess, but only made concept art based upon it strictly for Brawl. But that's just one interpretation of it). She was going to be cut if there was no material to work with. Sakurai didn't really care at that point, and she's not kept for legacy reasons, but because it was even plausible in the first place.

In both cases, legacy is not the exact reason they returned. There's no evidence that's why they think that about the Zelda cast either, as your Sheik premise is faulty reasoning-wise. You also forget the factor that Sheik got in cause Zelda and her were a concept together. Nobody else among the one-offs was lucky in this regard, so it's not surprising they didn't get in. You could also say "Sheik is Zelda" is a core reason, and that's not necessarily wrong. It could be he views the Triforce Trio as the important ones for playable. It could be the others simply don't interest him, or they came at the wrong time for a plausible option(or didn't dance in his head). Just being a one-off is a possible factor, but with no evidence supporting why it matters, there's no way to know what's going on. The only ones that are pretty obvious is that he can't throw all four Champions in at once(who are all equal), so them being Spirits is understandable. And some didn't even start as AT's or some kind of item. Tingle, who was a one-off during Melee, was just a Stage Hazard. He made the Moon an AT, despite, Skull Kid(specifically the one wearing the Majora's Mask, not the species or other Skull Kids in general) literally having the same ability and could do that at any point, meaning it's an extra unnecessary AT in a way. This could also be on Nintendo. Maybe they don't want others playable besides the Triforce Trio. I doubt it, but we have zero real information on these factors, and only one good guess at most. One also has to consider that every franchise is different. For instance, while people say that the "Champions aren't all equal. Just look at Pokemon starters!", that makes no lick of sense. The starters are billed uniquely so there's a clear front-runner in many cases, sometimes more than one. And that doesn't necessarily matter anyway. Sakurai is being given concept art and just looks at it, at least for the latest two Pokemon. Not for promotional reasons, but moreso cause they're very notable Pokemon at the time and easy to work with. They're recognizable enough to work for trailers in general, and will be popular among players anyway because they're already promoted(to clarify, him choosing a Pokemon lately isn't to promote the Pokemon games, it's cause by the time the character appears in Smash, they're already promoted enough to work well among players. Some might not like the choice, but hot damn, they'll know who it is).
 

Pupp135

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I’d be open to characters like Midna, Ghirahim, Marin, and Waluigi, but I’d say the main reason that a LoZ one-off or a Mario spin-off character would be added is huge demand for the character. While the mainline Mario series still has Toad/Toadette, Pauline, and enemies like Goomba and Koopa, Waluigi is highly requested, so I could see him getting in due to requests similar to K. Rool (K. Rool is important to DKC, but I think it’s important to note that his last appearance was a decade before Ultimate’s release). For LoZ, I feel that getting a one-off (Midna) or even a less relevant recurring character (Skull Kid, Tingle) would be a similar situation since it seems that Link‘s most recent reincarnation tends to be used for promoting the most recent game with the exception of Skyward Sword, and I assume that relevancy has some role in the character selection process.
 

Quillion

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White Frost White Frost : Honestly I'd say that Dr. Mario and Sheik's "special circumstances" seems to speak more for the Smash team's lack of preference for Mario spin-off characters and Zelda one-shots than it does against it.

I'm aware that Dr. Mario was put in partly because Sakurai liked "Fever" and partly because of the easy clone opportunity. It's also easy to see that Sheik only got in due to her association with Zelda.

No other Mario spin-off character or Zelda one-shot have any similar special circumstance to those two, and everyone else is just an Assist Trophies at best.
 

White Frost

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White Frost White Frost : Honestly I'd say that Dr. Mario and Sheik's "special circumstances" seems to speak more for the Smash team's lack of preference for Mario spin-off characters and Zelda one-shots than it does against it.

I'm aware that Dr. Mario was put in partly because Sakurai liked "Fever" and partly because of the easy clone opportunity. It's also easy to see that Sheik only got in due to her association with Zelda.

No other Mario spin-off character or Zelda one-shot have any similar special circumstance to those two, and everyone else is just an Assist Trophies at best.
Zelda only got in due to being in part with Sheik. It goes both ways. She wasn't going to get in otherwise. It's entirely a concept factor that got both in. It wasn't till Smash 3DS forced a split that he even considered separating Zelda, and Brawl at most was on his mind otherwise. And if anything, it shows that he didn't want to separate them or cut Sheik, going out of his way to secure a new design. He's constantly finding a way to make sure she returns, but it's far more than legacy reasons. It's more that she's a Smash staple, not just a fan favorite, and she's overall an important part of who Zelda is, as OOT is still one of the most influential games in history. It makes sense it has a character(or more) based upon it. In this case, there's two(Sheik and Ganondorf. Young Link also has MM as part of his core character, though clearly they didn't really represent his items from it well, or even use his particular equipment that would still work for aesthetic reasons. Only his stage is blatantly a MM thing. Well, Skull Kid and the Moon too, respectively).

Sheik was always going to be in Melee because Zelda was. Zelda was always going to be in Melee cause Sheik was. He never had an intention to ever split them up, and it shows.

Dr. Mario doesn't become that kind of special circumstance here whatsoever. You say that... yet why is the content from the spin-offs massively among the Super Mario content in general over and over and over again. It's almost like it's a very important part of the Super Mario series too. Your premise assumes he cares about the fact they're spin-offs... when we see a hard opposite.

These were never once special circumstances due to "one-off" or "spin-off". These weren't even relevant factors. Nobody else could make sense as a Mario clone because they were too different)like Wario, the only other plausible choice). There was, as I noted, no way in hell Zelda could make it on her own at that point. She had zero usable canon abilities beyond turning into Sheik. That's why the concept exists. It's a core part of the OOT character. It was both or nothing. Brawl was a clear time Zelda could've gotten in on her own, but by then she also had a weapon she could use, and even then, she was pretty clearly outshined by Midna & Wolf Link. It's actually not till WW she starts actually properly fighting... albeit, as Toon Zelda and Tetra separately. Sheik never fought at any point(the manga released well after Melee, and that was mostly offscreen). They made up massive stuff for both, showing how little material Zelda had plausible.

In the end, the one-off and spin-off things weren't actual factors at that point. I could see one-off mattering now, but not back then. There wasn't enough major characters being introduced beyond what is literally... Tingle, and he wasn't doing much just yet. It took till WW before he became far more notable, and obviously that only worked well in Japan anyway. Same with Skull Kid(albeit, Majora's Mask more in particular) as well, from the same game no less.

In the end, these are being given way more credit than they deserve. They just weren't important reasons at all when determining who to add in Melee. Why would they be? They mean nothing to how the characters work. Why would they be important now? Them being a one-off doesn't change that they're important characters. As I said before, the only ones who couldn't really make sense were the Champions, since they're hard equal-billing. And we already know that other factors can change that, as Min Min is a great example of someone who is not an important character or really "main" yet got in strictly due to a fan request. But she's a real exception and being DLC is possibly relevant. Maybe the fact Spring Man had an AT mattered. Sakurai actually found the request strange too, since she was clearly not the mascot or main character(but he later found out ARMS doesn't have a straight story, so she can be a main character within the story... she's just never billed at one at any point. Only at most Max Brass is, and Dr. Coyle for DLC purposes. The protagonist is whoever is possible to choose). Min Min stands out cause she subverts what you would think makes the most sense(you know, the mascot, especially as there's no main protagonist to begin with in ARMS). She's a true special circumstance. Dr. Mario is just another easy clone and luckily also had good music. Sheik was too important to not be in, cause she was hard-tied to Zelda(and it goes the other way around). A lot of these so-called special circumstances are just way more rare at this point. Clones were always special cases, but not Echoes(who were planned from the start), and some games had last minute additions who are similar to Clones(though this mostly applies to Smash 64. As each of them used a character base, but only Luigi is really clone while the rest share animations or some styles of moves otherwise. Ness used Mario as a base, but they barely seem similar. While the other three clearly are more comparable to their base characters).
 

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Why should one shot Mario and Zelda characters be playable in Smash?



Relevance and significance are concepts debated to the point of meaninglessness so why not just pick out ones you like?
 

Michael the Spikester

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But he clearly chose Rosalina, a spin-off character? Rosalina is more spin-off than Paper Mario ever will be, yet she was included. (Yes, Rosalina is a playable character in other Mario games but still.) Aside from fan-service, Sakurai's #1 reason to make a fighter is that they should be fun to play as, nothing else.
Rosalina a spin-off character? LOL!

As someone mentioned. 4 mainline appearances, one that was playable but not plot-relevant. Totes a side-character amIrite? It's no wonder she got in before Daisy and also over Waluigi.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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Rosalina a side character? LOL!

As someone mentioned. 4 mainline appearances, one that was playable but not plot-relevant. Totes a side-character amIrite? It's no wonder she got in before Daisy and also over Waluigi.
You do know the point I was trying to make with that post is that Rosalina is a side character, right?
 

Oracle Link

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i can say a reason why pure popularity choices are bad!
Look at every Dragonball games since Wii not one Classic Db char is in most of them because Z, super ,gt and even the Movies are more popular meaning that in every new Db games there are giant holes in the Roster!
 

JOJONumber691

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If Fire Emblem one shots & Xenoblade one shots are acceptable, then so are Zelda one shots.
But then again. Zelda also has consistent Cast Members alongside the One-Shots, being Link, Zelda, and some form of Ganon, whereas Fire Emblem only consistently has Anna in every game, and Xenoblade only crosses over when it's Non-Canon, allowing the Current Protagonists to get their story told.
 

MAtgSy

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But then again. Zelda also has consistent Cast Members alongside the One-Shots, being Link, Zelda, and some form of Ganon, whereas Fire Emblem only consistently has Anna in every game, and Xenoblade only crosses over when it's Non-Canon, allowing the Current Protagonists to get their story told.
There's Impa & Tingle as series wide recurring characters (Tingle's had his own games even), & Malon's been in like 4 games herself (OoT, OoS, 4SA, MC).
 

JOJONumber691

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There's Impa & Tingle as series wide recurring characters (Tingle's had his own games even), & Malon's been in like 4 games herself (OoT, OoS, 4SA, MC).
Impa is too inconsistent. I would be saying the same thing about Ganon had he not have gotten into Melee. Tingle is your best bet essentially, and he’d 100% be a Joke Character like Norimaro. Malon could be a cool Retro Character as well. Maybe she fights with the animals she has on her farm?
 

Lenidem

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Most Fire Emblem games need to be represented by a playable character but Zelda games don't? Come on. Link and Zelda differ so much from one game to another that it's often impossible to confuse them: the adult Link from Twilight Princess is clearly not the one from Skyward Sword or the one from Ocarina of Time, and we have none of those three. In fact, Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess are not represented at all. As someone said above, Link, Zelda and Ganon(dorf) are the bare minimum, but they should represent the serie as a whole, while the best way to represent Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword is clearly with Skull Kid, Midna or Ghirahim. I'm very glad that these games have at least stages and assists though, but if it's supposed to be enough, then why isn't it enough for Fire Emblem?
 

White Frost

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This is also why Link himself is odd. He just changes into different variations, same with Zelda. They're different people multiple times in Smash. There's even two different canon versions of GanonTo Clarify, Ganon reincarnates in Four Swords Adventures in the same way that Link does in games like Wind Waker. They're different people that one time. It's weird, cause it didn't properly fit into ALTTP that well. Ganon/dorf don't reincarnate at any other point, but get revived at best. This is also why the Gerudo there do not recognize him as Ganondorf. It's a different person they know., which aren't the same person, and even then, only his human form luckily got in, a different version of the overall person.

It's sad the actual Ganon isn't Smash either.

Also, Impa isn't inconsistent, her design is. There's no easy to use design because she could change at any moment. She isn't tied to any character like Sheik is(and it's not like Sakurai would know Sheik would never be used in a canon game anyway), but he does know Impa is super changed up. He didn't replace Link with Toon Link, he made another notable one using Young Link's assets. And Young Link was an easy clone too.

Tingle is the other reoccurring character and got his own games. But only the Toon version did, who may even be a different person. The MM one is from Termina. The Toon version is native to Hyrule's dimension, possibly. We don't know. The Toon version is technically more popular in Japan, but, well, got his own games. The MM one? Nope. Other than kind of existing in the Oracle games and outright being used for HW, it's barely used. This one is more popular in the West(it helps that he isn't from WW, who is not a very well-liked version for good reasons. He's a bad guy, but on your side. He's not a villain in terms of the story, but he's certainly no hero either. Thankfully this is fixed in later games where at most he's a fun antagonizing character like in the Four Sword games, matching his greed from his official backstory).

But you get the point. Both are oddball characters with issues. It's not that hard to see why neither made it into Smash. Now why other one-offs haven't yet is another story. I want to take notice on what I said on Sheik. She isn't really a one-off in this case. She's a special situation. Sakurai may be wanting to be a bit more careful about who he chooses since a lot of characters don't return, and he doesn't like cuts. Maybe the real reason is that the Zelda series tends to not reuse new characters as often, so he might find it hard to bring them back. He can easily transfer over Link and Zelda designs because they're almost identical models bar the aesthetics. And upgrade them with new weapons. BOTW isn't even a daunting task. He still had to do a bit more than TP Link, but it's nothing like adding an entirely new moveset and model to the game. Just an updated one.

That's not even a knock to the idea. I absolutely think one-offs are more than deserving. But development could be why. Sakurai didn't even know he'd continue the series after 64, nor after Melee. He now is more used to the series being continuous, and that means who he chooses has to be clear. Also, worth noting Fire Emblem likes to do stuff and have cameos of other characters as DLC/etc. lately, so the characters aren't nearly as hard-dropped as Zelda. Though to be fair, there's other circumstances even then. Corrin was suggested by Nintendo, as was Byleth, and Roy was an easy clone(not a character who is the mascot like Marth). Chrom and Lucina were special echo situations that wouldn't be playable otherwise(Lucina wasn't labeled an echo till later, but same point). Chrom was considered but dropped, and the other core protagonist, Robin, was added in. Lucina was a secondary protagonist compared to the other two. Of course, Chrom got clearly shafted, but it's moreso the trailer and guidance that shafted him. Him not making it due to Sakurai wanting someone more unique at the time is fair. What he used Chrom's assets for... not so fair.

Also, worth noting that Sheik is lucky to return anyway. She was able to have artwork either ready or was drawn for Sakurai. If it wasn't for that, she'd have been dropped, and he knows she's a one-off. I clarify this further, because this suggests he might not consider one-offs from Zelda a good idea due to the above points. He wants veterans to return in general.

But yeah. They should get in. But them not getting in is a bit understandable due to the LOZ series being awkward. Also, Ganon is a notable one since he has just as many inconsistent forms as Impa. He can't update him most of the time. Ganondorf, sure(and he had to go back to an old one, and couldn't use the Toon design either), but even that was limited. Is this why regular Ganon isn't in? Maybe. Or maybe cause Ganondorf was a very special situation. We might've only gotten Toon Ganondorf in Brawl otherwise, and he can't actually update him to another design(Toon Link is the same way, since he's not actually Young Link nor can be more than a high-end clone. They have different bodyshapes, though some similar animations).

I don't think I can note much more. I certainly hope next game gives some more series some love. Zelda is brimming with cool one-offs. Hell, I'd love some of the basic races, and they have actually quite a few members that can have costume references. And if they ever evolve a single Champion into a much bigger character, that one could plausibly get in(but only then. Basically, they'll need to hit Charizard levels at least, an actual true stand-out that Nintendo wants to promote. So far, nobody is that close).
 
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Oracle Link

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This is also why Link himself is odd. He just changes into different variations, same with Zelda. They're different people multiple times in Smash. There's even two different canon versions of GanonTo Clarify, Ganon reincarnates in Four Swords Adventures in the same way that Link does in games like Wind Waker. They're different people that one time. It's weird, cause it didn't properly fit into ALTTP that well. Ganon/dorf don't reincarnate at any other point, but get revived at best. This is also why the Gerudo there do not recognize him as Ganondorf. It's a different person they know., which aren't the same person, and even then, only his human form luckily got in, a different version of the overall person.

It's sad the actual Ganon isn't Smash either.

Also, Impa isn't inconsistent, her design is. There's no easy to use design because she could change at any moment. She isn't tied to any character like Sheik is(and it's not like Sakurai would know Sheik would never be used in a canon game anyway), but he does know Impa is super changed up. He didn't replace Link with Toon Link, he made another notable one using Young Link's assets. And Young Link was an easy clone too.

Tingle is the other reoccurring character and got his own games. But only the Toon version did, who may even be a different person. The MM one is from Termina. The Toon version is native to Hyrule's dimension, possibly. We don't know. The Toon version is technically more popular in Japan, but, well, got his own games. The MM one? Nope. Other than kind of existing in the Oracle games and outright being used for HW, it's barely used. This one is more popular in the West(it helps that he isn't from WW, who is not a very well-liked version for good reasons. He's a bad guy, but on your side. He's not a villain in terms of the story, but he's certainly no hero either. Thankfully this is fixed in later games where at most he's a fun antagonizing character like in the Four Sword games, matching his greed from his official backstory).

But you get the point. Both are oddball characters with issues. It's not that hard to see why neither made it into Smash. Now why other one-offs haven't yet is another story. I want to take notice on what I said on Sheik. She isn't really a one-off in this case. She's a special situation. Sakurai may be wanting to be a bit more careful about who he chooses since a lot of characters don't return, and he doesn't like cuts. Maybe the real reason is that the Zelda series tends to not reuse new characters as often, so he might find it hard to bring them back. He can easily transfer over Link and Zelda designs because they're almost identical models bar the aesthetics. And upgrade them with new weapons. BOTW isn't even a daunting task. He still had to do a bit more than TP Link, but it's nothing like adding an entirely new moveset and model to the game. Just an updated one.

That's not even a knock to the idea. I absolutely think one-offs are more than deserving. But development could be why. Sakurai didn't even know he'd continue the series after 64, nor after Melee. He now is more used to the series being continuous, and that means who he chooses has to be clear. Also, worth noting Fire Emblem likes to do stuff and have cameos of other characters as DLC/etc. lately, so the characters aren't nearly as hard-dropped as Zelda. Though to be fair, there's other circumstances even then. Corrin was suggested by Nintendo, as was Byleth, and Roy was an easy clone(not a character who is the mascot like Marth). Chrom and Lucina were special echo situations that wouldn't be playable otherwise(Lucina wasn't labeled an echo till later, but same point). Chrom was considered but dropped, and the other core protagonist, Robin, was added in. Lucina was a secondary protagonist compared to the other two. Of course, Chrom got clearly shafted, but it's moreso the trailer and guidance that shafted him. Him not making it due to Sakurai wanting someone more unique at the time is fair. What he used Chrom's assets for... not so fair.

Also, worth noting that Sheik is lucky to return anyway. She was able to have artwork either ready or was drawn for Sakurai. If it wasn't for that, she'd have been dropped, and he knows she's a one-off. I clarify this further, because this suggests he might not consider one-offs from Zelda a good idea due to the above points. He wants veterans to return in general.

But yeah. They should get in. But them not getting in is a bit understandable due to the LOZ series being awkward. Also, Ganon is a notable one since he has just as many inconsistent forms as Impa. He can't update him most of the time. Ganondorf, sure(and he had to go back to an old one, and couldn't use the Toon design either), but even that was limited. Is this why regular Ganon isn't in? Maybe. Or maybe cause Ganondorf was a very special situation. We might've only gotten Toon Ganondorf in Brawl otherwise, and he can't actually update him to another design(Toon Link is the same way, since he's not actually Young Link nor can be more than a high-end clone. They have different bodyshapes, though some similar animations).

I don't think I can note much more. I certainly hope next game gives some more series some love. Zelda is brimming with cool one-offs. Hell, I'd love some of the basic races, and they have actually quite a few members that can have costume references. And if they ever evolve a single Champion into a much bigger character, that one could plausibly get in(but only then. Basically, they'll need to hit Charizard levels at least, an actual true stand-out that Nintendo wants to promote. So far, nobody is that close).
Toon version? The tingle from his games is 100% a diffrent character!
 

Quillion

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White Frost White Frost : You make really good points there. When the series was young (64 and Melee), clearly character selection was a bit looser since there was less guarantee the series would be continuous. There's the fact that half the reason Doc is in is because Sakurai liked Fever, and there was no regard as to whether Sheik would be a staple aspect of Zelda or not.

But I can't see them pulling a Doc-like stunt where a character is selected mostly on music nowadays. I also can't see them doing something like bring in Hilda from ALBW just for the easy echo opportunity because of her connections to Zelda.

I'm just resigned to the fact that while Mario spin-off characters and Zelda one-shot characters could've had a place in the first two games, there's no place for them now.

Most Fire Emblem games need to be represented by a playable character but Zelda games don't? Come on. Link and Zelda differ so much from one game to another that it's often impossible to confuse them: the adult Link from Twilight Princess is clearly not the one from Skyward Sword or the one from Ocarina of Time, and we have none of those three. In fact, Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess are not represented at all. As someone said above, Link, Zelda and Ganon(dorf) are the bare minimum, but they should represent the serie as a whole, while the best way to represent Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword is clearly with Skull Kid, Midna or Ghirahim. I'm very glad that these games have at least stages and assists though, but if it's supposed to be enough, then why isn't it enough for Fire Emblem?
If Zelda did what Fire Emblem is doing now, would YOU want more Links and Zeldas (or (semi-)echoes of such) to represent each game?
 

White Frost

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White Frost White Frost : You make really good points there. When the series was young (64 and Melee), clearly character selection was a bit looser since there was less guarantee the series would be continuous. There's the fact that half the reason Doc is in is because Sakurai liked Fever, and there was no regard as to whether Sheik would be a staple aspect of Zelda or not.

But I can't see them pulling a Doc-like stunt where a character is selected mostly on music nowadays. I also can't see them doing something like bring in Hilda from ALBW just for the easy echo opportunity because of her connections to Zelda.

I'm just resigned to the fact that while Mario spin-off characters and Zelda one-shot characters could've had a place in the first two games, there's no place for them now.



If Zelda did what Fire Emblem is doing now, would YOU want more Links and Zeldas (or (semi-)echoes of such) to represent each game?
...If Sakurai was looking for an echo of Zelda, HIlda would get in. She'd be easy roster padding, but keep in mind she barely works as she outright has a weapon she uses. She's her counterpart, but not really much of an echo material. She could use similar moves, but would require big animation changes. So it has to be at least Chrom-like, who has an entirely different way he holds his weapon.

I don't see how they "lack a place". They clearly don't lack a thing. They're still big characters in their own right, and that's more than enough for Sakurai. Or did you forget the one he shafts more than Waluigi, who is a big AT with animations and outcry, while Toad took even longer to actually do more than be a mushroom shield. In fact, he just now got added other animations. That's right, the last big main Mario character got way less than Waluigi, a spin-off only character(though Waluigi has cameoed in main games, so he's not just spin-off only. But playable-wise, is).

It may be half the reason for Doc, but in the end, he didn't think him being a spin-off character mattered. There's no reason to believe it's a magical mindset he has. Considering he added a quirky Mook alone, he doesn't have any clear special standard. Why isn't Waluigi in yet? Well for one thing, Nintendo has to say yes to him being playable. Another is that he cannot be a clone whatsoever(at most, he'd be like Ness, using someone as a very loose base. Luigi/Wario or both of their assets). So no way he could get in over Daisy, who is effectively a spin-off character anyway and was an easy as hell echo. Besides, Mario has no canon, and Sakurai has given Mario Kart what is effectively its own section in Smash. While it's probably due to too many songs, it's the only spin-off to have its own music section. He could've easily had all spin-off songs thrown into one section, but didn't. Mario Kart is massive, so it makes sense it's treated that well in Smash. It also has no character special to it, so of course it doesn't have a playable character. Nobody actually represents the series as unique. ...Well, Metal Mario probably could act as one, but he's not willing to change icons anyway so it's not like Luigi will start magically representing Luigi's Mansion either icon-wise. Gooigi as an Echo, maybe. Nobody said an Echo has to represent the same game icon. It's just currently that way.

The Fire Emblem comparison doesn't work. You're forget the biggest protagonist, Chrom, who is the Link of that game, was not in for Robin, who while a main character just as much, clearly was unique and different(you could compare them to Zelda in a way), and the last one who got in before him was a lucky thing with Lucina, who is a main character but clearly lesser than Robin or Chrom(could be compared to Ganondorf in this context. Mainly the clone part). So they didn't add the Link of the series. They added someone else. FE is about one-offs. Those one-offs are the ones getting into Smash. If LOZ is like FE, that means Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, etc. would get in. So no, they're completely different setups. We'd be getting unique characters, not more Links/Zeldas/Ganon(dorfs). Maybe one here or there(since FE does have a clone thing going on), but that's... it.
 

Quillion

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...If Sakurai was looking for an echo of Zelda, HIlda would get in. She'd be easy roster padding, but keep in mind she barely works as she outright has a weapon she uses. She's her counterpart, but not really much of an echo material. She could use similar moves, but would require big animation changes. So it has to be at least Chrom-like, who has an entirely different way he holds his weapon.
To be fair, they're ignoring Sheik's Goddess Harp, and that's the most iconic thing she uses. Would Hilda's staff really be missed if she were Zelda's echo?

Still don't think Hilda would be a good choice for a clone or echo though. Those need to be selected with the same amount of care as full characters in this day and age.

I don't see how they "lack a place". They clearly don't lack a thing. They're still big characters in their own right, and that's more than enough for Sakurai. Or did you forget the one he shafts more than Waluigi, who is a big AT with animations and outcry, while Toad took even longer to actually do more than be a mushroom shield. In fact, he just now got added other animations. That's right, the last big main Mario character got way less than Waluigi, a spin-off only character(though Waluigi has cameoed in main games, so he's not just spin-off only. But playable-wise, is).
Toad doesn't really do much on his own if we're counting either the singular retainer to Peach or the race as a whole. It isn't like Piranha Plant where it can draw from all these different Piranha Plant species.

Now if we're talking actual main series character Captain Toad, a specific character who is both a main series character and has his own spin-off, then HE has enough of an identity to work.

I'd say Waluigi and Toad are pretty fairly treated considering their positions within the Mario franchise. Only Captain Toad is being shafted.

It may be half the reason for Doc, but in the end, he didn't think him being a spin-off character mattered. There's no reason to believe it's a magical mindset he has. Considering he added a quirky Mook alone, he doesn't have any clear special standard. Why isn't Waluigi in yet? Well for one thing, Nintendo has to say yes to him being playable. Another is that he cannot be a clone whatsoever(at most, he'd be like Ness, using someone as a very loose base. Luigi/Wario or both of their assets). So no way he could get in over Daisy, who is effectively a spin-off character anyway and was an easy as hell echo. Besides, Mario has no canon, and Sakurai has given Mario Kart what is effectively its own section in Smash. While it's probably due to too many songs, it's the only spin-off to have its own music section. He could've easily had all spin-off songs thrown into one section, but didn't. Mario Kart is massive, so it makes sense it's treated that well in Smash. It also has no character special to it, so of course it doesn't have a playable character. Nobody actually represents the series as unique. ...Well, Metal Mario probably could act as one, but he's not willing to change icons anyway so it's not like Luigi will start magically representing Luigi's Mansion either icon-wise. Gooigi as an Echo, maybe. Nobody said an Echo has to represent the same game icon. It's just currently that way.
I get where you're coming from with the Mario spin-offs getting tons of content in Smash, but again, there's a certain prestige attached to having a playable representative. I don't think the Smash team as a whole considers the Mario spin-offs prestigious enough to warrant having a spin-off exclusive character. Maybe it could've happened in 64 and Melee, but that ship has sailed.

On a tangent, I think making Yoshi his own franchise was a mistake since the Yoshi's Island series is more heavily tied to Mario than Wario or Donkey Kong, so I wouldn't want to see Luigi's Mansion get the same treatment.

The Fire Emblem comparison doesn't work. You're forget the biggest protagonist, Chrom, who is the Link of that game, was not in for Robin, who while a main character just as much, clearly was unique and different(you could compare them to Zelda in a way), and the last one who got in before him was a lucky thing with Lucina, who is a main character but clearly lesser than Robin or Chrom(could be compared to Ganondorf in this context. Mainly the clone part). So they didn't add the Link of the series. They added someone else. FE is about one-offs. Those one-offs are the ones getting into Smash. If LOZ is like FE, that means Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, etc. would get in. So no, they're completely different setups. We'd be getting unique characters, not more Links/Zeldas/Ganon(dorfs). Maybe one here or there(since FE does have a clone thing going on), but that's... it.
My point is that the Fire Emblem section of the roster is padded with Marth and three characters directly (through Lucina) or semi-directly (through Roy and Chrom) based on his template.

If Zelda were to imitate Fire Emblem in Smash, I guess that we would get a fourth Link considering the other two Links (which to be fair I do want since I miss the old moveset too much).
 

White Frost

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To be fair, they're ignoring Sheik's Goddess Harp, and that's the most iconic thing she uses. Would Hilda's staff really be missed if she were Zelda's echo?
The Harp is a small used item and isn't how Sheik actually fought enemies. She never fought until the Manga. Thus, they can't really do much with it. It'd be a taunt at most. Hilda uses her staff as an outright weapon. Entirely different situations. It's like Link's Sword in terms of how core it is.

Still don't think Hilda would be a good choice for a clone or echo though. Those need to be selected with the same amount of care as full characters in this day and age.
...Like Daisy, you mean? An easy Echo as is? Cause that's really the equivalent we're talking here. A quick one off but notable character. Actually, Hilda is way more important than Daisy but still.

Toad doesn't really do much on his own if we're counting either the singular retainer to Peach or the race as a whole. It isn't like Piranha Plant where it can draw from all these different Piranha Plant species.
But is still a missing core character. Captain Toad is a new character who is getting notable, but is unrelated to the main Toad and has his own merits to be in. He has a massive identity as an important ally of Mario anyway. And Toad does a lot. The issue is the lack of unique moves, if that's what you mean. But that's not hard to find. He can represent the spin-offs like Mario Kart perfectly if they needed an idea. We have no one representing power-ups(of which he and the race uses). It's not an issue.

Now if we're talking actual main series character Captain Toad, a specific character who is both a main series character and has his own spin-off, then HE has enough of an identity to work.
Toad's a specific character, so this already has no merit as an argument. What you're forgetting is that Toad is just the name of the Species in the US. He has a very specific individual name in the Japanese region. Which means they're outright ignoring a specific incividual.

Captain Toad isn't anywhere near as important and only rising up as a star. He's notable on his own right, but isn't even on Rosalina's level yet of notability. He's awesome, don't get me wrong, but not comparable to Toad's iconicness. They're different characters with different skillsets. And both are just individual members of the Toad species.

I'd say Waluigi and Toad are pretty fairly treated considering their positions within the Mario franchise. Only Captain Toad is being shafted.
Captain Toad got a new background role not long after he had his own game. And a Spirit. That's not being shafted. That's being fair.

Otherwise he'd be an AT if you want to give him more. But he wasn't shafted in any way. He represents exactly a core portion of his first Super Mario appearance, a character with a vehicle. He's actually pretty accurate. Could he be more? Sure. But he's not at this time and that's okay.

FYI, the main Toad is an active member and isn't there just to protect Peach. He, like the Yellow and Blue Toads, are outright adventurers. That's the job of her regular bodyguards. Smash doesn't specify the differences due to a language barrier as is. Also, they just retired Kunopio-Kun, who is more or less a counterpart to the Main Toad. Not the same guy, but a similar idea. Also, the main Toad could not promote into Captain Toad anyway unless the development team screwed up. You'd have to check the Japanese spirits. It's the species or the specific member. Tons of people do not know that Captain Toad is officially a different person from the main Toad and it's an understandable mistake.

Waluigi is absolutely missing as playable and is a huge iconic character(or at best as you can get when you're below the biggest ones like Mario, Pac-Man, Sonic, and Steve/Alex. The four biggest icons in gaming). Like he's Level A. He is not "treated fairly". He's actually pretty bad considering he's more than just a guy with a tennis racket. He only now slightly does it better by being beaten, as he's a butt-monkey too. Yes, they actually upped his role considerably by representing him better. Even if it's more of a coincidence.

I get where you're coming from with the Mario spin-offs getting tons of content in Smash, but again, there's a certain prestige attached to having a playable representative. I don't think the Smash team as a whole considers the Mario spin-offs prestigious enough to warrant having a spin-off exclusive character. Maybe it could've happened in 64 and Melee, but that ship has sailed.
There's no "prestige". It's a matter of figuring out a good moveset. Sakurai chooses races over individuals very often(many of the Pokemon are just species and not a particular version. Only Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, and if you stretch it, Charizard, are based upon a particular version. Jigglypuff is kind of awkward only cause it was a clone, but you could loosely count it too. That's what, half of them being species? Hero is generically done, not focused just on one version, but is clearly the class). Your prestige argument makes no sense. Class characters are in(Pokemon Trainer, Villager, Miis). They are not individuals, therefore, it means they didn't care that much about that. Plus, PP is not a hero, but nor is Waluigi. The only thing PP had was more clear moves to work with(or you know, it just went better in Sakurai's head. Maybe he has a bias against Waluigi even. These happen. He's only human).

You're way overrating the Smash character selection process. Waluigi, like PP, has a thing they and only they can do. That's what matters. They're equal in that regard. One couldn't use a clear base, and PP was created under a circumstance it had to be a non-hero(does Waluigi really count as that? He's been a villain once, sure. The fact he can be a protagonist in Mario Party's story mode might mean he's effectively close enough to a hero or is grouped with them that Sakurai doesn't really see him as a clear antagonist anyway).

On a tangent, I think making Yoshi his own franchise was a mistake since the Yoshi's Island series is more heavily tied to Mario than Wario or Donkey Kong, so I wouldn't want to see Luigi's Mansion get the same treatment.
Luigi's Mansion as a point was if they added a character straight from it. They should be under that because it has no real ties to regular Mario. Yoshi is a Mario Spin-Off, but actually still is very similar. LM? Not even close. It's not even a platformer.

Yoshi made sense due to being based upon his Yoshi's Story design. If it wasn't for that, he'd have the Mushroom symbol. Of Luigi was added first in Melee, while Luigi's Mansion was in development, he very well could've been representing that. It's all about the timing. That's why Wario represents WarioWare, not Land. Because that was the active series, and also fit his characterization in Japan better.

My point is that the Fire Emblem section of the roster is padded with Marth and three characters directly (through Lucina) or semi-directly (through Roy and Chrom) based on his template.
So Young Link, Ganondorf, and Toon Link, who are special circumstances and are not equivalents to Robin, Ike, Corrin, or Byleth, who did get added too. You can't have it both ways here. Yes, we'd be getting unique one-offs and clones. Or it doesn't compare to Fire Emblem at all. It's both or nothing. It's nothing, cause it doesn't actually work like FE whatsoever.

If Zelda were to imitate Fire Emblem in Smash, I guess that we would get a fourth Link considering the other two Links (which to be fair I do want since I miss the old moveset too much).
Nah. We'd have a unique character because that's actually what Fire Emblem does for the first character and then a clone possibly too. Brawl added only a unique character and no clones, which also proves FE isn't just "clones all the time" like you're implying.

In other words, your premise is flawed since you're not looking at the full picture.
 

xzx

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Rosalina a spin-off character? LOL!

As someone mentioned. 4 mainline appearances, one that was playable but not plot-relevant. Totes a side-character amIrite? It's no wonder she got in before Daisy and also over Waluigi.
What is she then? She's definitely not a main character, that's for sure. (She's more spin-off than main.)
 

Freduardo

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Anna’s not the only fire emblem recurring character. Most fire emblem characters can occur in two games (exceptions for the awakening crew and, the fates crew, three houses crew, the stone fellows, and Fire Emblem 2 guys. But 1/3, 4-5, 6-7, and 9-10 all have character overlap to not be recurring.

Then remember that the fire emblem amiibo in smash gave you playable characters in codename steam and fates and you now have it so the only fire emblem character in smash that has truly been “one off” (appearing in only one game) is Byleth.

Granted if you don’t count amiibo in steam/fates than lucina, chrom, roy, corrin, and Robin all become one off characters. Not Marth and Ike though.

And if you look at fire emblem heroes than fire emblem characters in smash stop being one off characters from that alone as the gatcha gameplay gives the popular ones eleventy different versions.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,880
What is she then? She's definitely not a main character, that's for sure. (She's more spin-off than main.)
She's a main series character; that alone gives her a shot.

Anna’s not the only fire emblem recurring character. Most fire emblem characters can occur in two games (exceptions for the awakening crew and, the fates crew, three houses crew, the stone fellows, and Fire Emblem 2 guys. But 1/3, 4-5, 6-7, and 9-10 all have character overlap to not be recurring.

Then remember that the fire emblem amiibo in smash gave you playable characters in codename steam and fates and you now have it so the only fire emblem character in smash that has truly been “one off” (appearing in only one game) is Byleth.

Granted if you don’t count amiibo in steam/fates than lucina, chrom, roy, corrin, and Robin all become one off characters. Not Marth and Ike though.

And if you look at fire emblem heroes than fire emblem characters in smash stop being one off characters from that alone as the gatcha gameplay gives the popular ones eleventy different versions.
Anna is the only one who appears across "universes", though. Each universe of FE is also a completely self-contained saga, with only light connections between the Jugdral, Archanea, Valm, and Ylisse games.

Still doesn't change the fact that Anna isn't important enough to be playable much like the Zelda one-shots. It's a matter of what the series revolves around, and Zelda revolves around the Triforce trio while Fire Emblem revolves around the one-shots.
 
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