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Why Sheik will Return

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dtp882

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IMO Shiek will return, because she's awesome. But just becuase Zelda has her TP design doesnt mean shes limited from her(Link's) OoT moves. Also many people say she was just in one game, and this doesnt fit in the continuity, since when is Smash based on continuity, and Lucas and Pit were only in one game(btw Technically Sheik was in Two. )

P.S.
I know just cause I stated some facts doesnt mean this is for certain, if anything it just means it possible.
 

Fawriel

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I was at least expecting arguments, not an extended version of "because I say so"...

Ah well, it'll be cool to see Zelda transform into Tetra.
 

Noshiee

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Real reasons:
1.-Continuity doesnt matter
2.-Not a clone
3.-been in a past SSB game
4.-can easily nerfed, so the being-to-powerful-in-melee and the my-butt-was-kicked-by-my-little-sister-who-had-never-played-a-game-using-sheik-which-is-why-I-hate-sheik arguments dont count
5.-was popular in melee ('couse she was overpowered, but it doesnt stop her from being popular)
6.-no good reason for her to be kicked out
7.-no good proof of deconfirmation
 

adumbrodeus

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I was at least expecting arguments, not an extended version of "because I say so"...

Ah well, it'll be cool to see Zelda transform into Tetra.
HEY, I bought that up, you're stealing my idea!

J/K, would be interesting, but I still think they should keep the nod to Ocarina.
 

RyokoYaksa

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If they want to keep a nod to Ocarina, then they can make Sheik return as an Assist Trophy who chaingrabs everyone. They don't have to make her playable.
 

Noshiee

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If they want to keep a nod to Ocarina, then they can make Sheik return as an Assist Trophy who chaingrabs everyone. They don't have to make her playable.
or not, it is just like Link in SSB64, his design was based on adult link from OoT, but he used a boomerang, which he couldnt used, or Zelda using OoT Magic (also in brawl), why cant she transform into Sheik?, continuity is the worst excuse people can use in any argument that has to be about a SSB game, as this doesnt excist (if you havent noticed >_>) in this games.
 

EPX2

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If they want to keep a nod to Ocarina, then they can make Sheik return as an Assist Trophy who chaingrabs everyone. They don't have to make her playable.
Or... they could do one better: keep Sheik as a playable character. Seriously, there's no real reason to exclude her.
 

Noshiee

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or not, it is just like Link in SSB64, his design was based on adult link from OoT, but he used a boomerang, which he couldnt used, or Zelda using OoT Magic (also in brawl), why cant she transform into Sheik?, continuity is the worst excuse people can use in any argument that has to be about a SSB game, as this doesnt excist (if you havent noticed >_>) in this games.
let me quote myself Tony
now,why do you want him as an AT?
 

blueriku

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IMO Shiek will return, because she's awesome. But just becuase Zelda has her TP design doesnt mean shes limited from her(Link's) OoT moves. Also many people say she was just in one game, and this doesnt fit in the continuity, since when is Smash based on continuity, and Lucas and Pit were only in one game(btw Technically Sheik was in Two. )

P.S.
I know just cause I stated some facts doesnt mean this is for certain, if anything it just means it possible.


wait a sec what is the technicality for sheik being in a second game ?
 

Fawriel

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or not, it is just like Link in SSB64, his design was based on adult link from OoT, but he used a boomerang, which he couldnt used, or Zelda using OoT Magic (also in brawl), why cant she transform into Sheik?, continuity is the worst excuse people can use in any argument that has to be about a SSB game, as this doesnt excist (if you havent noticed >_>) in this games.
You're right. Zelda should transform into Harry Potter.

Tetra was Wind Waker. Try again.
How can you get my point and yet miss it so entirely?
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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let me quote myself Tony
now,why do you want him as an AT?
Allow me.

or not, it is just like Link in SSB64, his design was based on adult link from OoT, but he used a boomerang, which he couldnt used
But he used a boomerang that he actually owned. You're talking about a boomerang that Link owned that he used as a kid that the game simply wouldn't allow you to use as an adult because you'd get niftier stuff (specifically the hookshot) as you progressed. That Link still owned that boomerang though. That's not nearly the same as Zelda literally transforming into a different person (or at least performing a magic that only an ancient ancestor was ever known to do).

or Zelda using OoT Magic (also in brawl)
Not confirmed. We don't know they're OoT attacks yet. As of right now, we've just seen her use some attacks that look like the ones she had in Melee, which (at the time) were named after attacks seen in OoT. For all we know, this could just be "Zelda magic".


why cant she transform into Sheik? continuity is the worst excuse people can use in any argument that has to be about a SSB game, as this doesnt excist (if you havent noticed >_>) in this games.
SSB does take some liberties with the characters, but what we're talking about here is more than a little liberty. Regardless of what everyone says, the Smash universe MUST operate under some sense of continuity, otherwise we'd see Pikachu with a firearm and a cigarette, muttering overused puns about "takin' out the trash" whenever he capped someone. I, for one, am glad we don't see that.

Sheik could crop up again. But it's not so unrealistic to think Sakurai may decide against joining her to Zelda's hip again due to continuity issues. It would not be beyond him to go "Oh wait, that makes no ****ing sense. Separate character/Assist Trophy".

Despite my rambling walls-of-text, Fawriel's post seems much more effective. Whatever, this took too long to type not to post. *submit*
 

PrettyGoodYear

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Wait, Sheik as an Assist Trophy?

That would be like having a playable Zelda and an Assist Trophy Zelda.

Due to the above reasons, I hope Sheik doesn't return. But if she does, she should still be Zelda's transform. I don't want her as a separate character.
 

JPW

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I'd rather see Zelda get a new Down+B. The float/swoop move we see in Zelda: TP would be great.

Other then that, I don't see Sheik returning.

Though one could suggest. That due to Shiek's popularity in Melee, Sheik could be part of the roster as a whole new character. Then again we could see an AT.

No Zelda reference at all.

To be honest we have all seen a progression of each character in one form or another.

Everyone has a new move or a new look.

So far Zelda has only seemed to have a new look. All her original attacks seem to be the same as before. I really don't want that to be the case. We need some new stuff. Zelda relying on Sheik brings the past out.

And to me makes Zelda very boring.
I want to see some change some progression it's all well and good the look changing, but I want to see a difference of moves.

If I wanted the same old Zelda, I stick with Melee.

Besides FS, there really is nothing to look forward to if Zelda is the same as before.
 

geemann2236

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Shiek will return because she is bad@$$, and will only not be returning if Sakurai gets stupid. The main question is whether she will be a solo character or be with Zelda.
 

DH_Ninja

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Shiek will return because she is bad@$$, and will only not be returning if Sakurai gets stupid. The main question is whether she will be a solo character or be with Zelda.
I dunno, they did put sonic in brawl so....

okay now for the non satiric part of the statement.

Personally, i don't want sheik in brawl but, I really can't say for sure if she will return or not. Its really hard to say.
 

blueriku

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this is all just opinions and debate now rather sheik comes back or not, well nowone knows that and will never know this until sakurai reveals zelda......these ramblings mean nothing until we get updated from the dojo or some official announcement, but debate is healthy but it gets real tiering seeing ppl complain that they don't want sheik in and for what no one has yet to give one legitimate reason why because they cant now my opinions i think sheik will come back and then ppl that said she wouldn't or did not want it happen will eat their words but i guess the tables can easily be turned... in any case all their is to do is be patient and wait.......
 

vonfinell

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Okay, they've clearly been avoiding saying anything about Zelda since she was confirmed as returning, and in all the videos we haven't seen anything even remotely like a Down-B replacement move. Sakurai is clearly trying to build up the Sheik fanboy's nervousness, but in the end there is no real reason to take out Sheik.
It would require less work to just keep the character in than to have to think of the stats for a new move for Zelda, not to mention that she hasn't done anything useful in the series
Like I keep saying, the Light Arrows solution is bull, because they were a useless ability that she had to a few of the games, and they were a dumb addition anyway. They wouldn't fit her character, and if they were trying to follow the TP idea, than she wouldn't be able to hit the stage floor (that's right, she'd miss at missing)
Sheik was hugely popular, had a large fanbase, an original character, and the much needed Ninja that we all want to be.
Therefore, everyone who keeps getting pwned by Sheik and then forsaking him entirely for that very reason needs to just shut it. Tires don exits, Sheik is just popular among skilled players. (although I acknowledge that I am mid-level at best. Last time I used this argument I was accused of being narcissistic.)

In short, Sheik will return. Sakurai's silence has made it clear enough, and there have been no subtle hints thusfar (i.e. "could he even surpass Ness?") suggesting that he might not.
 

sheikan7

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well said von =P
People who just got beaten by sheik a lot don't want sheik in Brawl. Just like my freind who keeps getting beaten by Sheik and Peach. He wants them both nerfed..surprise surprise. If brawl totally stinks, melee will never change =D
 

RyokoYaksa

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Have you ever tried firing a bow and arrow at a swiftly moving target while riding on horseback with any sort of accuracy? Besides the fact that it isn't easy, they needed a way to make sure Zelda's light arrows weren't EZ mode like they were in the final WW fight.

The implementation of Sheik in Melee is a major grease stain on the Smash Bros. series. It makes less and less sense over time since Sheik is a contemporary character, and barely half of one at that.
 

tafutureboy

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Have you ever tried firing a bow and arrow at a swiftly moving target while riding on horseback with any sort of accuracy? Besides the fact that it isn't easy, they needed a way to make sure Zelda's light arrows weren't EZ mode like they were in the final WW fight.

The implementation of Sheik in Melee is a major grease stain on the Smash Bros. series. It makes less and less sense over time since Sheik is a contemporary character, and barely half of one at that.
so you want her out(shiek)?
i dont get why she was in in the first place
she has been in 1 Game
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Okay. Vonfinell, I was going to just kind of leave this thread as is, but your post kind of pissed me off mostly because. . . there are just several things I disagree with. So allow me to shed my point of view on the situation.

Okay, they've clearly been avoiding saying anything about Zelda since she was confirmed as returning, and in all the videos we haven't seen anything even remotely like a Down-B replacement move. Sakurai is clearly trying to build up the Sheik fanboy's nervousness, but in the end there is no real reason to take out Sheik.
That's hardly proof to support your claim. You're essentially saying "They're not showing Zelda's down B. It MUST be Sheik!"

That's like saying, "I can't see the type of ice cream in my bowl under all this topping. It MUST be chocolate!"

Makes NO sense, yo.


It would require less work to just keep the character in than to have to think of the stats for a new move for Zelda, not to mention that she hasn't done anything useful in the series
Not necessarily. My understanding is that it's not just a matter of copying and pasting character stats from Melee to Brawl. Even if a character has very similar moves to the ones they had in Melee, certain aspects must be tweaked to work with the new physics. Now, would it be easier to give Zelda one new special move, or to tweak parts of an entire character (Sheik)? I don't know the answer, but I don't think you do either. So it's not necessarily true that Sheik is the easier option to take. Besides, even if she is, who cares? This game isn't exactly being rushed. The easiest way or the fastest way to develop a character still will not be employed if it's not the right way.

Like I keep saying, the Light Arrows solution is bull, because they were a useless ability that she had to a few of the games, and they were a dumb addition anyway.
That's a completely subjective statement. The light arrows can work entirely differently in Brawl, and thusly be infinitely more effective. And what's this about Light Arrows being in only a few games? I seem to remember a certain character that only appeared in one game. . . .

They wouldn't fit her character
But transforming into Sheik, something this Zelda has never done before, would?

and if they were trying to follow the TP idea, than she wouldn't be able to hit the stage floor (that's right, she'd miss at missing)
Right. Since the moves in Smash always work exactly the same way they do in the game they were taken from. Din's Fire is a real good example of that. . . .

Sheik was hugely popular, had a large fanbase, an original character, and the much needed Ninja that we all want to be.
"Hugely popular" and "had a large fanbase" are essentially the same points expressed with different words, so you can't use them as different pros for Sheik. Regardless, the main reason Sheik was popular was because she's so newbie friendly. She's got combo skills AND plenty of killing strokes. A REALLY fun character to play as. But that's the main reason MOST people liked her. You know it; I know it; the world knows it no matter how much some people may deny it. There are SOME legitimate Sheik fans out there, but they're greatly outnumbered by the ones who loved her for her hitboxes.

Therefore, everyone who keeps getting pwned by Sheik and then forsaking him entirely for that very reason needs to just shut it.
Well THAT'S true.

Tires don exits, Sheik is just popular among skilled players.
. . . And yet even MORE popular with newbies, due to the combos and KO moves I mentioned earlier. >_>

In short, Sheik will return.
You don't know that.

Sakurai's silence has made it clear enough
No it hasn't.

and there have been no subtle hints thusfar (i.e. "could he even surpass Ness?") suggesting that he might not.
Nor any hints suggesting that she's back. There's no more reason to think Sheik will be back than there is that she won't be. Just because you give your opinion with certainty doesn't make it a certainty.

EDIT: Also, I'd just like to point out that I find it interesting how all the people I see who think that Sheik is more likely to be in than not are the ones who have her plastered all over their sigs and avatars. I don't know. . . it just kind of leads me to believe that there's some blind fanboyism involved.
 

Drake3

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not to mention that she hasn't done anything useful in the series
It's called the Legend of Zelda, not the Legend of Sheik.

Like I keep saying, the Light Arrows solution is bull, because they were a useless ability that she had to a few of the games, and they were a dumb addition anyway. They wouldn't fit her character
And you're such a good judge of that, seeing as how you designed Zelda and know exactly what her character truly is.

Sheik was a gimmick.
I fixed it for you. :)

Tires don exits
Oh noes, my car.

That was fun.

Can you name me anything that Sheik does in Melee that she did in Ocarina of Time besides disappear with a deku nut and transform into Zelda?
 

Tony_

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Have you ever tried firing a bow and arrow at a swiftly moving target while riding on horseback with any sort of accuracy? Besides the fact that it isn't easy, they needed a way to make sure Zelda's light arrows weren't EZ mode like they were in the final WW fight.

The implementation of Sheik in Melee is a major grease stain on the Smash Bros. series. It makes less and less sense over time since Sheik is a contemporary character, and barely half of one at that.
Win the thread and explains why Sheik shouldn't return.
 

MirageofMadness

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The only reason anyone has to doubt the return of Sheik is the fact that Link's moves were changed to match his Twilight Princess Form, and pretty accurately.

I am fine whether or not Shiek is replaced for something as long as it is interesting. I'm a little worried about using light arrows because Link and Pit both already have bows, and Pit's arrows are even made of light, so it might start to get repetitive.
 

Shadowbolt

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It's not just Twilight Princess... it's the many, many Zelda games that have been released where there is no Sheik present.
THANK YOU.

Sheik is a one game, mediocre character, from a game with a PLETHORA of installments, in which she'll likely NEVER return. There is quite literally ZERO reason why she deserves to return - she was in ONE game, did next to NOTHING, and will never be in another Zelda game, EVER. She is now officially worthless to the Zelda franchise, and by extension, Smash Bros.
 

The Mark

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"IMO Shiek will return, because she's awesome."

Yeah your right. Good reason, I agree with you completely now.

Seriously tho, Alt-F4, and don't forget to shutdown your computer too.
 

Puffs

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All true. However, Sheik does represent the Sheikah element in the Hero of Time story. I have found elements of the Sheikah race in the strangest places. Termina, the fused shadows, the City in the Sky, and other places. which seems to be a vital aspect of Hyrule's history and mystey.
 

ScaryMunky

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ScaryMunky said:
Just gonna throw in my two cents concerning Zelda/Sheik.

Just because Zelda has the TP look does not mean she can't turn into Sheik. The TP look is simply the most graphically updated version of Zelda; as far as Brawl goes, Zelda's new look is not a determining factor for her movesets or any possible transformations. As others have already pointed out, she uses OoT powers in Brawl, even though she used none of them in TP.
I do not desire for Sheik to return, nor do I loath the idea of it happening, but it cannot be denied that it remains a possibility. And Zelda to Tetra? No. Wind Waker Link was not the hero of time, and Tetra was a 100 year decendant of the Zelda that plays the role of princess of Hyrule in the Link timeline we see in Brawl. That aside, you'd be transforming not only into completely different people, but aging, and going from one art style to another.
 

Fawriel

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Circus, you almost make me reconsider my sexual orientation.

*ahem*


Why Sheik shouldn't return? Why should he/she/it?
Someone has said it before: Sheik was a gimmick that was meant to give Zelda some sort of cool twist that makes her interesting. The rest is history - this gimmick served to make the Zelda/Sheik combo the worst designed character in Smash history.
Now Zelda is a different person with a different background and not only would Sheik still run the risk of completely dragging down the whole character in terms of design, she would make no sense.
This Zelda has no reason for having the ability to transform into a male Sheikah. Except for fetish purposes. Or, hell, comedic purposes. The new smash hit anime straight from Japan, Zelda 1/2, featuring whacky tomboy female Link as the token love interest! Squee!
 

The rAt

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... otherwise we'd see Pikachu with a firearm and a cigarette, muttering overused puns about "takin' out the trash" whenever he capped someone. I, for one, am glad we don't see that.
Okay, Circus, I know you're making a point there, and I find it both intelligent and insightful. But I have to say, I've been waiting for Pikachu to do all of those things since SSB64. C'mon, can he at least say the "takin' out the trash" lines?

I was at least expecting arguments, not an extended version of "because I say so"...

Ah well, it'll be cool to see Zelda transform into Tetra.
You're right. Zelda should transform into Harry Potter.
Fawriel, I don't think I've ever read a post of yours I didn't like. Don't ever change.


All true. However, Sheik does represent the Sheikah element in the Hero of Time story. I have found elements of the Sheikah race in the strangest places. Termina, the fused shadows, the City in the Sky, and other places. which seems to be a vital aspect of Hyrule's history and mystey.
Incorrect; Impa represents the Sheikah. Why? Because she is a Sheikah, not a princess posing as a Sheikah. And since Impa has been appearing in Zelda games since Adventure of Link (1989, maybe? I'd have to look it up), it is arguable that the entire idea of the Sheikah was taken from her OoT incarnation (combined with elements mentioned in LttP). So here's an idea; why not replace Sheik with Impa?

For the sake of Smash Bros Brawl making any sense whatsoever (outside of the mind of a Sheik fan, in whose mind her appearance in Star Wars Episode 7: Return of the Revenge of the Wrath of Darth Fett would make sense), Sheik should have no connection with Smash Bros Brawl Zelda. I'm not sure if it can be said in better ways than it already has.

However, speaking in terms of what we know, I think we can establish that Sheik will return. I'm actually surprised nobody has mentioned the Aunoma (sp?) article yet. It's been floating around forever. It's linked on the Zelda Down + B Discussion, I believe. I'll try and dig it up (again) if its that big of a deal. Anyhow, it basically states that the director of Twilight Princess was approached by Sakurai to approve Twilight Princess-ish designs of Gannondorf and Sheik for Brawl.

Some people think this means she will return as an AT. That makes no sense to me. Why update her to match Twilight Princess specs, just to stick her in a Trophy? Especially when, as a trophy character she would be representing the game she was actually in, OoT, as opposed to the Zelda series overall. Also, why overhaul any character for a trophy? I mean, Andross is showing up in his SNES form. There is also her moveset to consider, and the fact that tossing it out completely, when you've already gone through the work of redesigning her makes no sense whatsoever.

For that reason, I'd say it's looking a lot like Sheik will be returning playably. I say this with full understanding that she is an extremely insignificant character in the Zelda series, and that there are many better characters to replace her. I don't like it either. I'm just trying to look at the facts.

The real question in my mind is whether or not Sakurai has the common sense of an autistic Pichu to understand that linking (no pun intended) Twilight Princess Zelda and OoT Sheik is pure madness. Only time will tell for sure.
 
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