Why Ness should be out and Lucas should replace him.

[Super Smash Master]

If anyone wants Ness in over Claus, then they are a moron. Claus = pure awesome.

 

[vesperview]

They already had two Links in Melee, for the 400th time. They had two Marios too. That argument is bad.

They weren't adult links and Mario wasn't wearing the same outfit.

 

[Tyr_God_of_war]

I read the post and even though I don't like either that much( I would rather have FE characters) he makes sense. Why is anyone arguing about it without reading his post!

 

[Mom_Your_Son_Is_Dead]

i did it for the lulz

 

[brawlpro]

how do you get banned with two posts?

 

[Oldskool]

It's kind of sad after reading your well developed topic to people come in and post the same old ****.... It's like they learned nothing from this, but , they will learn I guess, when Ness doesn't appear in the dojo (because they know he would have been revealed FIRST)....

 

[burrito]

Please keep this thread open. It may not be the first thread of it kinds, but it best presents the logic as to why Lucas should replace Ness, whether seem to be completely misunderstanding it or not.

They already had two Links in Melee, for the 400th time. They had two Marios too. That argument is bad.

If you think that, you totally missed the point of the argument. The point of the argument is not that there couldn't be two Link characters in the game, because obviously they were. It is specifically focused on OOT Link and TP Link who happen to be similar in a lot of ways to Ness and Lucas. It argues that TP link is an update of OOT Link, so it would be pointless to add OOT Link. Adult Link was not an "update" to Young Link, so that is irrelevant, plus Adult Link and Young Link have even more differences.

 

[Big-Cat]

how do you get banned with two posts?

His first post must have something incredibly offensive like a disturbing 4Chan image.

 

[Stormkeeper]

So if there is a new Zelda game out and the main character was left-handed, had a magical sword and boomerang, wore a Hawaiian shirt with his hair kept in a pony tail and was named Charlie, would he be Link?

No. Despite having similar moves and stuff, Ness and Lucas are different characters.

Also, lets look at some things we know:

1. There have been no clone characters announced as of yet.
2. Clone characters are an easy way to bolster the roster and appeal to the fans.
3. Nintendo is keeping up with current games. (Ike, Zero Suit Samus, TP Link).
4. Nintendo is one of the most unpredicatable gaming companies around and is also one of the most closed-lipped.
5. Brawl is breaking previous rules. Snake is not a liscnesed Nintendo Character.
6. There are other characters from the original 12 that have not been announced (Luigi, Falcon and Jiggs. Although I strongly doubt Nintendo will can the Eternal Understudy.)
7. Ness has a strong fanbase in the Smash Bros games, but not really from the Mother games.
8. It would be weird to have a character with all of Ness's old moves but not be Ness.

So what does all this mean?

Basically, we don't know jack.

Will Ness be lost to smash? Will Lucas be Ness's clone? Will they be separate characters but from the same game series (like Meta Knight and Kirby)? We just don't know. With Nintendo, it is too hard to predict what is going to happen. So lets stop pretending we are cool and just wait patiently for Brawl.

Then we can argue about it.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get why all three, Ness, Lucas and Clause, can't be in it? I've always said in my time playing Melee that it needed more Mother/Earthbound characters but, not replace HIM. =/ I barely even know Lucas, I started playing Mother 3 on ROM and it is worth, by far, a 'K'. Earthbound/Mother 2 on the other hand was, what I found, great. I enjoyed it.

I am on no ones side here but, hearing vespers point of views, I might have to agree with him on this one. Since TP Link and OoT Link are different, they still look the EXACT same. (Not EXACT EXACT but, you know what I mean. >__>;; ) So, people would get used to TP Link because he has the same moveset and looks ad the one from OoT. Who cares if his voice is different, he never talks anyways. >__>;;

Lucas already has some different moves as Ness. WHen we look at the picture of him standing and having all that enery come out of his hand is a clue, kinda.

 

[burrito]

So if there is a new Zelda game out and the main character was left-handed, had a magical sword and boomerang, wore a Hawaiian shirt with his hair kept in a pony tail and was named Charlie, would he be Link?

No. Despite having similar moves and stuff, Ness and Lucas are different characters.

I can't tell if you are arguing against me or for me here, but I have made it clear that each hero from each Zelda game (excluding direct sequels) is a different character. So, I would agree that Ness and Lucas are different characters, as OOT Link and TP Link are different characters. The thing is, they are updated versions of each other.

Will Ness be lost to smash? Will Lucas be Ness's clone? Will they be separate characters but from the same game series (like Meta Knight and Kirby)? We just don't know. With Nintendo, it is too hard to predict what is going to happen. So lets stop pretending we are cool and just wait patiently for Brawl.

Then we can argue about it.

Wait, what? What's the point of arguing once the game is already out, we will know. Speculation and healthy debate is a good way to pass the time until Brawl comes out and is a good exercise. Otherwise, the forums would just turn into endless "I can't wait for this game" comments. It is actually possible to predict some things in Brawl with fair accuracy, it is all about understanding the philosophy of Brawl.

Of course, I never said that Ness wont be in the game. He still has a chance, I just believe that the chance is low. I would just like to explain my logic and allow others to understand it.

 

[freeman123]

Super Smash Bros.
If anyone wants Ness in over Claus, then they are a moron. Claus = pure awesome.

Claus = Professor Chaos
Lucas = Dennis the Menace

vesperview
They weren't adult links and Mario wasn't wearing the same outfit.

So? Ness and Lucas are entirely different people.

Tyr_God_of_war
I read the post and even though I don't like either that much( I would rather have FE characters) he makes sense. Why is anyone arguing about it without reading his post!

We have read his post, and he doesn't make sense. You can't make sense when you say things like "Having both Ness and Lucas would be like having 2 Links." They had 2 Links in Melee.

Oldskool
It's kind of sad after reading your well developed topic to people come in and post the same old ****.... It's like they learned nothing from this, but , they will learn I guess, when Ness doesn't appear in the dojo (because they know he would have been revealed FIRST)....

Luke maybe banned, but his stupidity lives on through people like you. This isn't pro Ness people Vs. anti Ness people. It's reasonable people Vs. know it all douche bags. I don't know if Ness will be in Brawl, and I don't really care. The difference is that I don't act like I know, and act like a total @#$% to anyone who doesn't agree with me.

burrito
Please keep this thread open. It may not be the first thread of it kinds, but it best presents the logic as to why Lucas should replace Ness, whether seem to be completely misunderstanding it or not.

People argue about whether or not Ness will return in the Ness topic. There's no reason for this thread.

burrito
No, that's not the same as all. Mario is always been the same character in all his games. It is the same Mario.

And yet they had 2 Marios in Melee. So if they can have 2 characters who are the exact same person, why can't they have both Ness and Lucas, who are entirely different people?

burrito
Have you played any Zelda games? Any one who plays them should know that it is made pretty obvious that each Hero is a different character.

That has nothing to do with anything. The Link argument is bad! They had 2 Links in Melee. If anything, you're just making the case to why they could have both Ness and Lucas.

This would be like me saying "They can't put Sonic in the game. That would be like putting Snake in the game."

burrito
If you think that, you totally missed the point of the argument. The point of the argument is not that there couldn't be two Link characters in the game, because obviously they were. It is specifically focused on OOT Link and TP Link who happen to be similar in a lot of ways to Ness and Lucas. It argues that TP link is an update of OOT Link, so it would be pointless to add OOT Link. Adult Link was not an "update" to Young Link, so that is irrelevant, plus Adult Link and Young Link have even more differences.

I understand the argument. The problem isn't that people don't understand it, it's that we do and it's ridiculous. They had 2 Links in Melee. You could say all day that "Those 2 Links were more different from eachother then these other 2 Links. Blah blah blah blah..."

Let me ask you a question. Do you truly believe that the odds of Ness returning are equal to the odds of both TP Link and OOT Link being in the game as separate characters? In other words, if Monday's update was Ness, would you be equally surprised as you would be if it were OOT Link? Because I find that very hard to believe. I think that you know how ridiculous that sounds.

So according to you, I could show the pictures above to any random person and say "Which pair looks the most alike?" And people would say "I can't tell. Both sets are equally similar." Do you expect me, or any reasonable person that reads this, to believe that?

 

[Jackal478]

Wait whats that?

"Luke Groundwalker
Banned (6 Points)"

Oh....finally...

 

[burrito]

People argue about whether or not Ness will return in the Ness topic. There's no reason for this thread.

I suppose Freeman, but the Ness thread might be better suited for speculation of what Ness would be like in Brawl. This thread offers the most organized well explained points as to why Ness should not be in Brawl.

And yet they had 2 Marios in Melee. So if they can have 2 characters who are the exact same person, why can't they have both Ness and Lucas, who are entirely different people?

I never said that Ness couldn't be in Brawl if that's what you think. Sakurai is unpredictable sometimes and he is prone to doing crazy things such as adding Mario twice. There is a possibility that would increase with whether or not there are: clones in Brawl, alternate costumes in brawl, a large amount of characters in Brawl.

Plus, there is one other major reason why I think Ness shouldn't be in Brawl, besides the similarities to Lucas.

That has nothing to do with anything. The Link argument is bad! They had 2 Links in Melee. If anything, you're just making the case to why they could have both Ness and Lucas.

They had 2 Links in Melee. You could say all day that "Those 2 Links were more different from eachother then these other 2 Links. Blah blah blah blah..."

I've already explained why the 2 links in Melee point is irrelevant.

This would be like me saying "They can't put Sonic in the game. That would be like putting Snake in the game."

uhhhhh.... what?

I understand the argument. The problem isn't that people don't understand it, it's that we do and it's ridiculous.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be the judge of that Freeman.

I think you obviously don't understand the argument if you keep bringing up the 2 Links in Melee point.

Let me ask you a question. Do you truly believe that the odds of Ness returning are equal to the odds of both TP Link and OOT Link being in the game as separate characters? In other words, if Monday's update was Ness, would you be equally surprised as you would be if it were OOT Link? Because I find that very hard to believe. I think that you know how ridiculous that sounds.

That is a good question, but I believe I would not be equally as surprised to see that Ness is in Brawl as I would be to see Lucas in brawl. There are definitely some other factors (fan support) as to whether Ness should be in Brawl. So, I would be a bit less surprised to see Ness in Brawl. That is why, though, that the OOT Link/TP Link and Ness/Lucas comparison is only a half of the argument.
And.... nope, I don't think it really sounds that ridiculous. It really is all just about how you look at it.

So according to you, I could show the pictures above to any random person and say "Which pair looks the most alike?" And people would say "I can't tell. Both sets are equally similar." Do you expect me, or any reasonable person that reads this, to believe that?

Appearance is only a very small part of it. For example, do you think that if Lucas wore a baseball cap it would drastically change whether you want him in Brawl? There are many other things that factor into the argument, this isn't just about two characters that look similar. If you really care that much, though, I think that OOT Zelda and TP Zelda would offer a better example for you.

 

[freeman123]

If TP Link is just as different from OOT Link as Lucas is from Ness, then why isn't TP Link listed as a newcomer on smashbros.com? Lucas is a newcomer, so should TP Link be a newcomer too?

The answer is no, because it's still just Link. The different Link thing is just some Nintendo came up with so they could tell a new story in every game while reusing the same characters.

Ness and Lucas are more like Cloud and Tidus. Link is more like Pokemon Trainer.

 

[prettymanfairy]

Why was Luke banned?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If TP Link is just as different from OOT Link as Lucas is from Ness, then why isn't TP Link listed as a newcomer on smashbros.com? Lucas is a newcomer, so should TP Link be a newcomer too?

The answer is no, because it's still just Link. The different Link thing is just some Nintendo came up with so they could tell a new story in every game while reusing the same characters.

Ness and Lucas are more like Cloud and Tidus. Link is more like Pokemon Trainer.

Link never runs into another Link from a different game and fights him, so I don't see how PKMN Trainer is anything like him...

Red Vs. Gold?

 

[vesperview]

Claus = Professor Chaos
Lucas = Dennis the Menace


So? Ness and Lucas are entirely different people.


We have read his post, and he doesn't make sense. You can't make sense when you say things like "Having both Ness and Lucas would be like having 2 Links." They had 2 Links in Melee.


Luke maybe banned, but his stupidity lives on through people like you. This isn't pro Ness people Vs. anti Ness people. It's reasonable people Vs. know it all douche bags. I don't know if Ness will be in Brawl, and I don't really care. The difference is that I don't act like I know, and act like a total @#$% to anyone who doesn't agree with me.


People argue about whether or not Ness will return in the Ness topic. There's no reason for this thread.


And yet they had 2 Marios in Melee. So if they can have 2 characters who are the exact same person, why can't they have both Ness and Lucas, who are entirely different people?


That has nothing to do with anything. The Link argument is bad! They had 2 Links in Melee. If anything, you're just making the case to why they could have both Ness and Lucas.

This would be like me saying "They can't put Sonic in the game. That would be like putting Snake in the game."


I understand the argument. The problem isn't that people don't understand it, it's that we do and it's ridiculous. They had 2 Links in Melee. You could say all day that "Those 2 Links were more different from eachother then these other 2 Links. Blah blah blah blah..."

Let me ask you a question. Do you truly believe that the odds of Ness returning are equal to the odds of both TP Link and OOT Link being in the game as separate characters? In other words, if Monday's update was Ness, would you be equally surprised as you would be if it were OOT Link? Because I find that very hard to believe. I think that you know how ridiculous that sounds.

So according to you, I could show the pictures above to any random person and say "Which pair looks the most alike?" And people would say "I can't tell. Both sets are equally similar." Do you expect me, or any reasonable person that reads this, to believe that?

I thought you were pro the whole Link bullcrap, I guess I was wrong... I totally agree with this post.

 

[Oldskool]

Guys, there is a chance of original characters leaving, there is rarely a fighting game series that CONTINUES to stack up playable characters. At one point or another they have to get rid of some of the originals to make room for new characters (usually getting rid of low to mid popular characters). Otherwise the game would be an upgrade of melee, not a totally new game with freshness. Sakurai said for a fact characters were getting cut, but he never said how many or if the clones were going. My guess is all clones accept Ganondorf will be scrapped because the rest of them were just thrown in at the last minute. But he can choose other characters to cut. Expect less expansion of already installed franchises such as Mario and Zelda and more expansion on new franchises.

While Lucas was revealed first between the two, WHY would the OLDER version who was moved to default character move BACK to hidden? What sense does that make? I mean PIT is a defualt and he's older than Ness.

 

[Spellman]

I'll accept them removing Melee characters, but none of the original Smash Bros.

I want Luigi, Captain Falcon, and most of all, Ness to return. Ness... despite his appearance being similar to Ness, shouldn't be removed. There's a lot more to the Earthbound series then the look of the character, and that's the back story behind them. The character designs have never been extremely exciting, they're just pictures of ordinary looking kids (save for the proportions.)

If Lucas just rips off all of Ness's Smash Bros attacks and replaces Ness, that'd be the biggest injustice of them all. I'm glad that they've paid tribute to a unique and cool JAPAN only game, but if they're just going to spit in the faces of all the English gamers who have been pulled to the Earthbound series because of all the rep that Ness gave in Smash Bros., then I will be pretty mad. It's bad enough they won't release Mother 3 across the world, but to take away a localized character is mighty annoying.

I'm sure the boys at Starmen.net are sticking up for Ness.

 

[burrito]

If TP Link is just as different from OOT Link as Lucas is from Ness, then why isn't TP Link listed as a newcomer on smashbros.com? Lucas is a newcomer, so should TP Link be a newcomer too?

The answer is no, because it's still just Link. The different Link thing is just some Nintendo came up with so they could tell a new story in every game while reusing the same characters.

Ness and Lucas are more like Cloud and Tidus. Link is more like Pokemon Trainer.

I frequently mentioned that the only difference between OOT Link and TP Link from Ness and Lucas is that they share the same name. Lucas had to be added as a newcomer because of his different name or else it would have lead to much confusion, but I maintain, under this theory, that that was he only reason he was added as a newcomer.

If Lucas was named Ness, than he wouldn't have been added as a newcomer. If TP Link was named Charlie, than he would've been added as a newcomer.

I don't think that the difference in names would be enough to get Ness into Brawl, though. Also, Ness and Lucas are nothing like Cloud and Tidus.

 

[vesperview]

I don't think that the difference in names would be enough to get Ness into Brawl, though. Also, Ness and Lucas are nothing like Cloud and Tidus.

yes they are, they are two completely different characters starring in a same franchise, just like Ness and Lucas.

 

[burrito]

yes they are, they are two completely different characters starring in a same franchise, just like Ness and Lucas.

Tidus and Cloud have a lot more differences than Ness and Lucas, I know enough about Final Fantasy to know that. Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X are even completely different games.

 

[ndm508]

Yeah its been a while since I left a post that caused a little stir, so I have a bit of catching up to do.

First off, yeah, I don't think Ness will be out of the game completely. I personally think he should just be an alternate costume this time around. Design wise, there's barely a difference.

Yeah so they had two Marios and two Links in the last game. But guess what, even as clones they both look a tad more different from their counter-parts as opposed to Ness and Lucas. That and it's freaking Link and Mario, even their clones are better known than any Mother character.

And as for arguing that Ness was one of the originals, that's great, but he's not really one of Nintendo's biggest stars. Even though Lucas is the newest star, the series itself hasn't been represented in the states since Earthbound (Which is ridiculous) But the fact is he's not all that popular outside of Smash fans. Same can be argued about Jigglypuff (I don't want that thing back either) and Luigi, and Captain Falcon. But all three of them have been in more titles (Jigglypuff didn't star in anything, but it has been popular in the pokemon cartoon..ten years ago...I really don't want it back in) And yes Luigi is a mario clone (he is, get over it) but he is a freaking Mario brother. The ultimate second player character, everybody who knows Mario probably knows Luigi, and as weird as it sounds, he too probably has a bigger fanbase than Ness.

And again, most of you guys arguing for Ness probably havent even played Earthbound, those of you who have, yeah I can feel for ya. The biggest thing about me not wanting Ness in a spot is just because I got so sick of all the clones from the last game. I'm sure he'll be back. But I just think it would make more sense to have him as another costume. Either way you'll probably be able to play him, so stop making such a big fuss just because the name and hair is different.

 

[raphtmarqui]

First off, yeah, I don't think Ness will be out of the game completely. I personally think he should just be an alternate costume this time around. Design wise, there's barely a difference.

Yea a costume change would be the best thing to do. Ness doesnt really need to be a separate character.

 

[Deleted member]

Yea a costume change would be the best thing to do. Ness doesnt really need to be a separate character.

Niether should Lucas but, look where he is now.

 

[Oldskool]

I'm just sitting here trying to think why people would honestly believe he would reveal an older addition to the series AFTER the new addition OR even worse reassign them to unlockable possession, that's like them updating with Diddy Kong BEFORE they update with DK and then finding out DK was an unlockable character. What sense does it make? Also what sense would it make to keep an expendable character JUST for the sake of another country that hasn't gotten over 70% of the games in that series? That's like Sakurai asking us what Fire Emblem characters should be in the game...

I couldn't agree more with Sakurai's decision to keep the character poll Japan only. Otherwise the character roster would be a complete joke.

 

[freeman123]

burrito
I don't think that the difference in names would be enough to get Ness into Brawl, though. Also, Ness and Lucas are nothing like Cloud and Tidus.

How about this then: Ness and Lucas are like Marth and Roy.

 

[EPX2]

I'm just sitting here trying to think why people would honestly believe he would reveal an older addition to the series AFTER the new addition.

Ike and Marth would like to have a word with you.

 

[vesperview]

Tidus and Cloud have a lot more differences than Ness and Lucas, I know enough about Final Fantasy to know that. Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X are even completely different games.

Look just because Cloud is a clone of Sephiroth and Tidus doesn't exist doesn't mean they are not your typical Final Fantasy main, a sword wielder who doesn't know what to do with his ****ing life, sounds familiar? anyway I'm not gonna start discussing Cloud and Tidus now, my point was that Lucas and Ness are both stars of their own game in the same franchise, just like those two.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ike and Marth would like to have a word with you.

Actually, it makes sense for Ike to come before Marth. Marth was an unlockable last game and Ness wasn't.

 

[EPX2]

Actually, it makes sense for Ike to come before Marth. Marth was an unlockable last game and Ness wasn't.

Yes, Marth was an unlockable in Melee... which, in no way, says that he'll be one in Brawl. You know, like how Ness was a secret character in SSB but became a default character in Melee. And seeing as how Marth is considered to be the face of FE by many, it'd make sense for him to be given a starring (default) position in Brawl, alongside Ike.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Yes, Marth was an unlockable in Melee... which, in no way, says that he'll be one in Brawl. You know, like how Ness was a secret character in SSB but became a default character in Melee. And seeing as how Marth is considered to be the face of FE by many, it'd make sense for him to be given a starring (default) position in Brawl, alongside Ike.

He could still be unlockable though.

 

[EPX2]

He could still be unlockable though.

Yes, and that's a possibility I never denied... if you'd re-read my last post, you'd see why there's a good chance his status may change in Brawl, though.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Yes, and that's a possibility I never denied... if you'd re-read my last post, you'd see why there's a good chance his status may change in Brawl, though.

I don't think that the fact that he's the "face of Fire Emblem" is reason enough to get him as a starter... the fact that he's the first lord makes me think he'll be unlockable.

 

[EPX2]

I don't think that the fact that he's the "face of Fire Emblem" is reason enough to get him as a starter... the fact that he's the first lord makes me think he'll be unlockable.

Making Marth a secret character while making Ike a default would make as much sense as making Mario and Link secret characters, while making Luigi and Young Link default characters.

To expand on my whole "face of Fire Emblem" argument: the most iconic characters of franchises (Mario for his franchise, Link for his, Kirby for his, and so on) are almost given starting position in the SSB series. In the event that they are not, that's because the franchise they originate from is exclusively represented by secret characters. Example: F-Zero and Mother in the original, Fire Emblem and the G&W handheld series in Melee. Seeing as how FE is already getting a starter who happens to not be the character that's widely regarded to be the face of the series, wouldn't it make sense for Marth to also be available from the start?

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Making Marth a secret character while making Ike a default would make as much sense as making Mario and Link secret characters, while making Luigi and Young Link default characters.

No it wouldn't. Marth and Ike are both main characters. Luigi is a sidekick and Young Link is a different version.

Mario is THE main character, Marth is A main character. They can hide him all they want to, it would make sense to put Ike in the starting roster because he's more popular worldwide.

And some people don't even consider Marth the face of Fire Emblem.

To expand on my whole "face of Fire Emblem" argument: the most iconic characters of franchises (Mario for his franchise, Link for his, Kirby for his, and so on) are almost given starting position in the SSB series. In the event that they are not, that's because the franchise they originate from is exclusively represented by secret characters. Example: F-Zero and Mother in the original, Fire Emblem and the G&W handheld series in Melee. Seeing as how FE is already getting a starter who happens to not be the character that's widely regarded to be the face of the series, wouldn't it make sense for Marth to also be available from the start?

But see, Ike is VERY iconic too, and maybe even more poupular than Marth. No it wouldn't make sense to have Marth available from the start given that Ike was revealed first. If he's in, I bet you my left shoe he'll be hidden.

 

[GenG]

Making Marth a secret character while making Ike a default would make as much sense as making Mario and Link secret characters, while making Luigi and Young Link default characters.

To expand on my whole "face of Fire Emblem" argument: the most iconic characters of franchises (Mario for his franchise, Link for his, Kirby for his, and so on) are almost given starting position in the SSB series. In the event that they are not, that's because the franchise they originate from is exclusively represented by secret characters. Example: F-Zero and Mother in the original, Fire Emblem and the G&W handheld series in Melee. Seeing as how FE is already getting a starter who happens to not be the character that's widely regarded to be the face of the series, wouldn't it make sense for Marth to also be available from the start?

Who do you think is more popular among gamers? Luigi or Peach? Luigi, right? But he always ends being unlockable, while Peach a starter. That doesn't mean that Luigi isn't less important than Peach, or less known. But this is a fighting game and somebody has to be unlockable. Luigi was an unlockable in SSB64, then Bowser and Peach were added in Melee as starters with Luigi unlockable again.

Marth is the first Fire Emblem character, but in terms of importance he is paired with many others, and the cast is remade in each game so it's harder to notice. Marth was an unlockable in Melee, with Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Mr. G&W and Luigi. And that may not change.

If you see the pattern, there are newcomers revealed before oldcomers of that franchise (Ike before Marth, Trainer before Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, Lucas before Ness...), which doesn't mean they won't be revealed later to add dramatism to the DOJO updates or just keep being unlockables.

Oh, and marketing purposes. EVERYBODY knows Marth, but most people didn't knew who Ike was. Revealing Ike first made people interested on him.

 

[EPX2]

No it wouldn't. Marth and Ike are both main characters. Luigi is a sidekick and Young Link is a different version.

You completely missed my point - Mario, Link, and Marth are considered the "icons" of their respective franchises.

Mario is THE main character, Marth is A main character. They can hide him all they want to, it would make sense to put Ike in the starting roster because he's more popular worldwide.

Yes, Ike may or may not be more popular worldwide than Marth by virtue of the fact that his game was released internationally... that doesn't necessarily make him the face of Fire Emblem. Ike is a popular character, Marth is the face of FE, thus it'd make sense for both characters to be starters.

And some people don't even consider Marth the face of Fire Emblem.

Obviously... and this matters... how? That doesn't change the general consensus that Marth is the face of FE. Some people don't like the Halo franchise, that doesn't make it any less of a popular series.

But see, Ike is VERY iconic too, and maybe even more poupular than Marth. No it wouldn't make sense to have Marth available from the start given that Ike was revealed first. If he's in, I bet you my left shoe he'll be hidden.

Your logic really makes no sense... Ike being revealed first doesn't matter at all. The fact that he's a newcomer is completely irrelevant - if both characters are starters (which they more than likely will be), Sakurai could've chosen either character to reveal first. As it stands, he chose to go with Ike. This is not anything noteworthy; many newcomers were revealed prior to certain veteran characters being revealed. For example, we knew of Ike, PT, and Diddy before the ICs - are they going to be secret characters now since they were revealed afterwards?

Who do you think is more popular among gamers? Luigi or Peach? Luigi, right? But he always ends being unlockable, while Peach a starter. That doesn't mean that Luigi isn't less important than Peach, or less known. But this is a fighting game and somebody has to be unlockable. Luigi was an unlockable in SSB64, then Bowser and Peach were added in Melee as starters with Luigi unlockable again.

Luigi is a special case... his entire personality has been built on him being "the background brother," so an unlockable position suits him well. Not to mention, his movesets in SSB and SSBM are quite similar to Mario's, so that's only more reason to make him unlockable.

Regardless, I'm arguing that it wouldn't make sense to make the star character of a franchise unlockable while making another default, not that it wouldn't make sense to make one supporting character default while making another secret.

Marth is the first Fire Emblem character, but in terms of importance he is paired with many others, and the cast is remade in each game so it's harder to notice. Marth was an unlockable in Melee, with Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, Mr. G&W and Luigi. And that may not change.

Yes, I've acknowledged that may not change. As I've repeated, though, Marth is widely regarded as being the "icon" of FE (that doesn't necessarily suggest that he's the most important character in the entire franchise, mind you; Cloud is undeniably the star character of the Final Fantasy series, yet there's no real way to measure his importance against the other FF leads), so it'd only be appropriate for him to be given a starring position. The fact that Ike is a starter only serves as more incentive, in my opinion, since Sakurai is obviously interested in given FE a bit more exposure than it got in SSBM.

If you see the pattern, there are newcomers revealed before oldcomers of that franchise (Ike before Marth, Trainer before Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, Lucas before Ness...), which doesn't mean they won't be revealed later to add dramatism to the DOJO updates or just keep being unlockables.

Oh, and marketing purposes. EVERYBODY knows Marth, but most people didn't knew who Ike was. Revealing Ike first made people interested on him.

Agreed.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Wait whats that?

"Luke Groundwalker
Banned (6 Points)"

Oh....finally...

It's good to know I'm not the only one.

Why was Luke banned?

Where do I begin?





Anyways, back to the topic!

Er..

Ness
Claus
Lucas

For Brawl!