Why Ness should be out and Lucas should replace him.

[SteveTV]

If I see "taking up roster space", in any sentence, one more time I'll have to destroy whoever said it. That is a figment of your imagination. There's no such thing as roster space. If the developers truly think that Claus/Paula/etc should be in Brawl, then that's what will happen.

Yes the Wii disc has limited space, but if you're telling me that they can include millions of trophies/stickers/whatever, and not a character (i.e. the basis of what Smash is all about) that should rightfully be there, then you deserve a slap in the face with an iron glove.

Thank you.

 

[nobletoast]

If I see "taking up roster space", in any sentence, one more time I'll have to destroy whoever said it. That is a figment of your imagination. There's no such thing as roster space. If the developers truly think that Claus/Paula/etc should be in Brawl, then that's what will happen.

Yes the Wii disc has limited space, but if you're telling me that they can include millions of trophies/stickers/whatever, and not a character (i.e. the basis of what Smash is all about) that should rightfully be there, then you deserve a slap in the face with an iron glove.

And I don't care if you think Mother can only have 2 reps. You're not making the game. If Claus/Paula/etc is as worthy as you say s/he is, then I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.

And the OoT vs TP Link argument will mean that WW, Seasons and whatever other Zelda game came out, should not have another Link representative as they are the same person. Which I totally agree with but crazy WW fanatics will not agree with.

And this topic was not aimed at anyone in particular. More like a general collection of my thoughts.

I suppose your right. I take back my statement of the chances of their being three mother/earthbound as nill. But i still think we will only get two earthbound/mother reps if were getting a roster of 40-45 characters....of course i dont know thats the number its just the general consensus. When you take into account the contenders for playable slots theres too much competition to shell out three slots to Mother/Earthbound. I agree they decide who gets in but if they have a list of all the worthy choices then i doubt disc space/devolpment time would allow them all in.

I do agree with you but ive explained how i see things really badly above me and im having trouble articulating it into writing. I'm not looking for a debate over this.

 

[Masque]

You can tell that some people didn't read thhearte entire article before posting. =/

I agree wholeheartedly--and I was a Ness main in SSB64! I loved the little guy, so it was very sad for me to see what happened to him in the transition to SSBM. It's not that I don't want to see Ness come back--I wouldn't mind--I would just MUCH rather see Claus / Masked Boy get a spot on the roster. I can just picture the process now...

*MOTHER3 Spoilers*

Event: Brotherly Love
"Defeat the Masked Boy without attacking him!"
The gyst of the event is to pick up a Franklin Badge and reflect the Masked Boy's attacks back at him to win.

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Regarding the Link "proof"

May I remind you that Even thou Link change from OOT to TP, noone is complaining because IT IS STILL LINK. DUH. NESS IS NOT LUCAS OR VISE VIRSA.


Besides, one thing I never got was why is NESS a CLONE of LUCAS. Whether Ness stole his moves or not, THEY ARE HIS MOVES FOR SUPER SMASH BROTHERS. If ANYTHING, people should be saying LUCAS would be a clone of NESS. LUCAS would need a different moveset. Sence Luigi is gonna be in brawl, does not mean we have to give Mario a new moveset?!?!? Of course not.

Honestly Luke Groundwalker, (I like your name) most of your reasons can be easily countered, it seems like you didnt even try to come up with some decent reasons for ness, and instead gave your god Lucas more respect.

I mean, I always wanted Lucas in ALONGSIDE ness at first, but ever since Lucas was confirmed, I have grown to dislike him.....Claus is awesome, thou.

And the "message" Sakurai put could mean anything. It could also mean they will have to fight in order to see who is stronger.

ya..................Kirby fighting Petey Piranha saving Princess Peach and Zelda has PLENTY to do with Kirby's personal story....MHM.

I rest my case.

 

[:034:]

Time to defend the Groundwalker a lil'bit.

However I agree with all of your points, I still find it amusing how people actually think Mother 3 is getting translated by just having Lucas in Brawl. Mother 3 is now an almost 2 years old GBA game. The GBA is dead. Yes they could port it to the DS, but they didn't brought Mother 1 and Earthbound over aswell even though Earthbound got released in the U.S. Also, we never saw Roy's game Fire Emblem 6 either...

True, all true. But, let's take a look at Phoenix Wright. His first GBA game was made in 2001, and was ported to the DS for America and Europe FOUR years later, in 2005. If they can do it for him, they can do it for Lucas. Besides, Lucas is more known and popular due to ROMs and such.

And be glad Fire Emblem 6 wasn't ported - pretty crappy game.

Will somebody wanting Luigi in the game simply LOOK at Mario's design?

ITS THE SAME GUY.

Seriously, a couple clicks of the color changing button in the character select and holy crap there's Luigi.

Luigi has BACKSTORY. More than Ness anyway. More personality too, he's not just a carbon copy of Mario. Everybody who played Mario & Luigi can confirm this. Seriously, you can't have Mario without Luigi anymore. Luigi also has enough for a completly new moveset, where Ness took stuff from other characters for 64 and Melee. One could argue Lucas doesn't have enough either - but that makes it the same story as with Ness. And last time I checked, Lucas was announced first, not Ness.

ya..................Kirby fighting Petey Piranha saving Princess Peach and Zelda has PLENTY to do with Kirby's personal story....MHM.

Kirby's personal story has nothing to do with this. The Subspace Emmissary is a completely new story, with character development. It'd be handy if you'd already have a wide background to work with, no?

It's also pretty obvious that a lot of people didn't read the article completly. Which, if you're gonna reply, seems like a pretty important thing.

May I remind you that Even thou Link change from OOT to TP, noone is complaining because IT IS STILL LINK. DUH. NESS IS NOT LUCAS OR VISE VIRSA.

We're not complaining over the fact that OoT Link was changed to TP Link, we're saying that, even though they're different characters, they're virtually the same. If they'd both be in, then what the hell? They're exactly alike with very MINOR changes, moveset-wise.

And we're not saying Ness = Lucas either. You might wanna read that excellent first post Luke made.

 

[Masque]

Perhaps it's just me, but it seems as if some of these highly vehement rebuttals only serve to embolden his point about how some fans will lash out at anyone who suggests that Lucas could replace Ness.

 

[burrito]

Oh man, thank you Luke Groundwalker. You completely and perfectly expressed my feelings on this subject (except that there are some Mother 2 characters that would fit in Brawl more than Ness, but that's besides the point.). It's too bad the people just seem to completely ignore the points that you make. It's kind of annoying. Oh well, I'm just glad someone gets it.

Please people, I implore you to actually read and understand Luke's points.

Regarding the Link "proof"

May I remind you that Even thou Link change from OOT to TP, noone is complaining because IT IS STILL LINK. DUH. NESS IS NOT LUCAS OR VISE VIRSA.

Actually, OOT Link and TP Link are different characters, they just happen to share the same default name. So, no, OOT Link is NOT TP Link. It's just that Lucas was given a different name as opposed to Ness.

 

[paralasalud]

i agree with luke completely.

 

[A Diamond For Disease]

My main problem (only real problem) with Lucas replacing Ness would be the fact that Nintendo hasn't released Mother 3 worldwide.

Oh yeah...and robo-Ness would be cooler than anybody.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Florida]

Point 1: Generations need to pass!​

Yes, that is right, I feel that we need to go to the next level with Lucas' inclusion and replacing with Ness. I really feel Lucas will be a step up as the stereotypical Mother main character.

Generations needing to pass is your logic for Lucas to replace Ness? Let's take a look at the Pokémon series; we'll get rid of the old and in with the new!

Pikachu - OUT
Jigglypuff - OUT
Mewtwo - OUT
Charizard, Squirtle, Ivysaur - OUT

All old generations should be replaced with fourth generation Pokémon, such as Deoxys, Lucario, Munchlax, and others!

... that is simply not a good enough reason for Ness' boot.

Some random Ness-supporter: BUT THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE CHARACTERS!!

Well, yeah. But guess who else are two separate characters?

And this is the same exact thing in many other series, especially RPGs. It's a very recurring theme.

People will simply ask, however, "Since when was Lucas and Ness the same concept?" Well, someone hasn't played a Mother game before and if so they missed one of the major factors of it, especially the main characters.

Much like Zelda, each main Mother character is literally the same concept. In Zelda, we have a silent protagonist named Link, who ends up wearing a green tunic and wields a sword to go on some adventure to save the world from Ganon/Vaati/whatever. Sometimes even having to save Princess Zelda or something. In the Mother series, it always stars a young boy kids can relate to with a stripped shirt, similar facial features, same exact stats in pretty much every way, same exact basic moves, equips the exact same items, etc. Pretty much, every is the same with the Mother protagonist.

(Yes, the Lucas one is fanmade, deal with it.)​

As you can see from each one, they're pretty much the same overall. The only difference is, with Lucas, he looks drastically different, and this sets people off quite greatly, really. Do NOT be set off by his looks alone, he is indeed the same exact concept like every Link. Yes, he's a different character, just as much as Ninten is a different character. Yes, Link in OoT IS a different character from Link in TP. Now, I dunno about you, but this would pretty much make me just rather have Lucas than having both him and Ness. That'll be the same exact thing as having both Ninten and Ness in at the same time, and I'm sure no one in hell wants that.

Yes, if Lucas happens to replace Ness and take all of his moves, he really wouldn't be much of a newcomer, really. I can honestly completely agree with that. But, logically, yeah, he does count as one, because he does have a different name. Even with each Mother protagonist having different names, they're are STILL the same concept. Anyone who's played each game would simply know that. In terms of actual fighting ability, personality, ideal, they are, indeed, the same character.

Ness and Lucas could be exactly the same, or one of the both could reveal an unique and different fighting style. Let's take the screen shots that we've received from the DOJO as an example (the third picture to be more head-on). In this screen we see Lucas performing a move which is very similar to Ness' fair in Melee. However you also have to spot the differences.

Instead of leaning foward, with both hands in front such, as Ness; Lucas seems to be standing up straight, with one hand in front of him. Also, the hitbox of the move seems much larger than Ness', plus it seems like to me that this move won't be consecutive-- but just deliver one intense blow to the opponent.

So it could turn out that it'll be a Fox / Falco sort of thing: they're very similar, but at the same time they differ.

Edit:

Oh, and, that Link comparison is a horrible example of what you're trying to say.

Point 2: Other characters deserve the spot more than Ness!​

This is going to be quite simple, I hope.

I honestly think that other Mother characters deserve a spot in before Ness and Ness just becomes an alt. for Lucas to save up space for more needed characters.

Some randomer: Ness is not needed as a veteran to return?!

Yes, that's right, Ness could easily be an alt. for Lucas, really, it wouldn't be that hard. But that's not the point.

People seem to think it's simply okay to have two completely the same characters other than small tweaks in design and different name in Brawl. Yes, they would be similar, very similar, if they were both in Brawl. Luigified clones, yeah, I could see that easily. I'll give them that, Lucas could have some moves different from Ness to make him completely new and original like Luigi is to Mario. However, would you rather something like that, or something completely new?

I dunno 'bout you, but I want something new, and just drop Ness as an alt. for Lucas. Period.

Now, who could possibly be that important to take the spot?!

Well, fans of Mother 3 would know exactly who would take up the spot: The Masked Boy (a.k.a. Claus).

People seem to think he's just some random Mother character, really. Know why? Well, it's because they haven't played Mother 3 at all, literally. Because anyone who's played Mother 3 knows that the Masked Boy plays a huge part in Lucas' backstory, which is much more richer and deeper than Ness' ever could be, and plays a huge role in the game.

o.O
Ness "deserves" to be in Brawl just as equally as any other character. Sure other Earthbound characters should make it in as well, such as

Spoiler

Maked Man / Claus

, but why can't all of them just be in? There really isn't any need for replacement!

Point 3: Lucas would have a richer Subspace Emissary than Ness!​

Yes, he would. Over Ness, Lucas would have a lot better Subspace Emissary story that would fit perfectly with his character. Yes, there will be actual story and character development, as quoted by Sakurai in the update of the Subspace Emissary:



Now, I don't hate Mother 2's main characters or anything, but they hardly had any backstory at all. Matter of fact, NONE of them had backstory. Ness was just simply called by Buzz Buzz to defeat Gigyas, who's a gigantic mass of evil emotion with no form, without hardly any reason at all, really. Ness HAD to do it for Buzz Buzz, and that's where the rest of Ness' quirky and fun adventure starts, and got some friends along the way to help him. Anyone would know that Ness' Subspace Emissary story mode that has him "shouldering his burdens" wouldn't really work out at all, really.

However, it CAN work out for Lucas, perfectly.

Lucas has a very strong relationship with his brother Claus throughout the game, in which, during a certain number of events, Claus is turned into the Masked Boy and literally controlled by the Pig King for the Pig Army, which also plays a huge role in their tragic life. I won't say much, though, but they really do have a lot of development, and Mother 3 really excels at telling a great story with amazing characters. It has a lot of meaning, even though it's dramatic style is different from the first two games, it really pulls it off amazingly. Basically, however, if the relationship between Claus, the Pig Army, and the Pig King is explored in Lucas' Subspace story, it would work out smoothly.

Ness really doesn't have much to work with at all, sadly. That's a fact, either you like it or not. Sakurai could pull it off, but it probably won't be very much at all.

Edit: More in-depth -

Couldn't agree more on how Lucas' Subspace plot would exceed Ness', but that STILL isn't a good enough reason to get complete rid of an original twelve. Let's take Mr. Game and Watch as another one of examples. How could he possibly have a good Subspace role? Yet, even you predict that his return is absolute!

Some of your statements were a bit personal and biased, but you also shared with us some good points, in all.

I just don't see why Ness AND Lucas AND

Spoiler

youknowwho

all can't appear in Brawl together! Sakurai and his team could easily seperate them moveset wise, but still give them that sense that they are indeed from the same game (if that makes sense).

 

[Llumys]

I agree.

Ness, let other MOTHER characters have their turn.

Lucas replacing Ness is like (TP) Link replacing (OT) Link, as you said.

I want Claus to be playable, he'd be so cool.

 

[The Subspace Muffin]

That was a really, really good post. Really convincing, Luke Groundwalker. I don't want Ness in... we can have the Masked Man, or the Pig King... or... or... I've got it!

Ninten for Super Smash Bros. 4!

 

[brawlpro]

lucas shouldn't replace ness because...lucas looks dumb imo, his eyebrows are almost invisible, now ness is a cooler lookin dude!

 

[VanillaMummy]

Ness should still be a fighter in Brawl since he is one of the original 12 fighters.

Horrible argument.

 

[axemangx]

This picture bugs me like heck. First of all, are Ness and Lucas the same person? Nope. Who cares if they have the same specials? They could have the same EFFECTS.


EFFECTS. Key word der.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Is Link from OoT and Link from TP the same person? Nope.

 

[Neiteio]

My thoughts on why Ness should (and will) stay

That was a good read, Luke Groundwalker, and you raise many interesting points. However, I'd like to respectfully disagree with a number of them. I think Ness should -- and could -- still be included, even though I like Lucas more. Here's why:

1) You say that Lucas and Ness would be too similar. This makes a dangerous assumption, that they'll have the same moves and fighting style. Now I understand that they have the same moves and stats in their source games (read: Mother 2 and Mother 3), but that doesn't mean a creative mind like Sakurai couldn't give them completely different fighting styles for Smash. The moves might have the same names (i.e. PK Thunder), but the way they perform the moves could be radically different, to the point where they even differ in basic functionality and effect. Off the top of my head: A PK Fire from Ness is a lightning bolt that consumes the foe in lingering flames; a PK Fire from Lucas could be a rapid-fire scattershot of explosive energy pellets. They have different minds, so it wouldn't be altogether unreasonable for the precise nature of their psychic powers to differ as well.

Also, many were quick to dismiss Ike as a Marth clone, but this is hardly the case, with Ike's moves being slow and powerful instead of fast and technical. Ness and Lucas could be just as different. I don't even think one would be the "Luigi" of the other. The only similarity would be the names of their moves; everything else could be different. If Sakurai wills it, it will be done.

2) Ness is the only Earthbound lead protagonist with worldwide recognition, AND with a Smash legacy spanning two generations. Furthermore, Ness represents Mother 2. It doesn't matter that his backstory is not as interesting as Lucas'. The simple fact of the matter is that Ness represents for many people all of their fond memories from Earthbound. Ness' inclusion serves as a foothold into the world of Mother 2 in Smash, paving the way for the appearance of other M2-themed elements, such as trophies, stages and more. When one takes this into consideration, it's no wonder so many Ness fans are concerned.

Ness represents the world of Mother 2, one beloved worldwide.​

If I were Sakurai, here's what I'd do: make Lucas the Mother rep in the starting line-up, and make Ness a hidden character you unlock by beating Classic Mode (assuming it's back) with Lucas. As for The Subspace Emissary, I don't think you'll be able to choose any one character and play the entire game with said character; it seems quite clear that you'll play specific characters during specific chapters, thus allowing the developers to milk the most out of each level's design by tailoring it the character's strengths, like Target Practice. The reason I bring this up is because I would only tell Lucas' story in Subspace Emissary; I wouldn't put any chapters in it involving a hidden character, Ness. Thus, Ness' lack of a backstory would be completely irrelevant.

At any rate, please let me know what you think. I feel you have many good ideas, Luke, but I think there's still plenty of merit to the belief that Ness has a place in Brawl.

- N

 

[Big-Cat]

About the Link argument, I remember hearing in an interview around the time Wind Waker came out. I believe Miyamoto was on the subject of there being different Links in each game. Then, he mentioned that the SSB series has its own Link.

In other words, the SSB Zelda characters have makeovers inbetween the games.

 

[vesperview]

Is Link from OoT and Link from TP the same person? Nope.

They're in different times but they're the same character so that's not an argument, plus they only differ in items.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

1) You say that Lucas and Ness would be too similar. This makes a dangerous assumption, that they'll have the same moves and fighting style. Now I understand that they have the same moves and stats in their source games (read: Mother 2 and Mother 3), but that doesn't mean a creative mind like Sakurai couldn't give them completely different fighting styles for Smash. The moves might have the same names (i.e. PK Thunder), but the way they perform the moves could be radically different, to the point where they even differ in basic functionality and effect. Off the top of my head: A PK Fire from Ness is a lightning bolt that consumes the foe in lingering flames; a PK Fire from Lucas could be a rapid-fire scattershot of explosive energy pellets. They have different minds, so it wouldn't be altogether unreasonable for the precise nature of their psychic powers to differ as well.

Also, many were quick to dismiss Ike as a Marth clone, but this is hardly the case, with Ike's moves being slow and powerful instead of fast and technical. Ness and Lucas could be just as different. I don't even think one would be the "Luigi" of the other. The only similarity would be the names of their moves; everything else could be different. If Sakurai wills it, it will be done.

Perhaps, I could see something of that sort, good point.

2) Ness is the only Earthbound lead protagonist with worldwide recognition, AND with a Smash legacy spanning two generations. Furthermore, Ness represents Mother 2. It doesn't matter that his backstory is not as interesting as Lucas'. The simple fact of the matter is that Ness represents for many people all of their fond memories from Earthbound. Ness' inclusion serves as a foothold into the world of Mother 2 in Smash, paving the way for the appearance of other M2-themed elements, such as trophies, stages and more. When one takes this into consideration, it's no wonder so many Ness fans are concerned.

Ness represents the world of Mother 2, one beloved worldwide.​

If I were Sakurai, here's what I'd do: make Lucas the Mother rep in the starting line-up, and make Ness a hidden character you unlock by beating Classic Mode (assuming it's back) with Lucas. As for The Subspace Emissary, I don't think you'll be able to choose any one character and play the entire game with said character; it seems quite clear that you'll play specific characters during specific chapters, thus allowing the developers to milk the most out of each level's design by tailoring it the character's strengths, like Target Practice. The reason I bring this up is because I would only tell Lucas' story in Subspace Emissary; I wouldn't put any chapters in it involving a hidden character, Ness. Thus, Ness' lack of a backstory would be completely irrelevant.

At any rate, please let me know what you think. I feel you have many good ideas, Luke, but I think there's still plenty of merit to the belief that Ness has a place in Brawl.

- N

Well, there's nothing much I can say, really, you do bring up really good points for Ness in Brawl, compared to most other points. I can understand where people come from, really, in Ness' case, especially fans who grew up or is more familar with Earthbound/Mother 2, they would feel really odd without Ness being playable and an almost unknown character (guessing that most people haven't played Mother 3) to take his place.

However, and this is more of my own personal preference, but, to me, it'd just seem like Ness would take a perfectly fine character space when he could easily be an alt. for Lucas. Allowing people to still play as Ness, but with Lucas' moveset, so their nostalgia could still be present. It'll be a lot easier for something like that to happen, to make way for more character, Mother related or not, in Brawl. But, again, that is more of my own personal preference, I suppose.

They're in different times but they're the same character so that's not an argument, plus they only differ in items.

So is Ness and Lucas, point?

...But ****, each Link does have something goin' on with them. I mean, unlike Ness and Lucas, they COULD be different with their different items, Lucas and Ness hardly being different at all in any case other than in design and backstory.

 

[vesperview]

So is Ness and Lucas, point?

Lucas and Ness are the same character? wow you certainly fail with your arguments, everybody knows that Link is Link, no matter what game he's in, you're just using that argument to support your reasoning, Lucas is NOT Ness!

 

[burrito]

Lucas and Ness are the same character? wow you certainly fail with your arguments, everybody knows that Link is Link, no matter what game he's in, you're just using that argument to support your reasoning, Lucas is NOT Ness!

It's as simple as this vesperview: despite a name change, Ness and Lucas are no more different characters than OOT Link and TP Link. OOT Link and TP Link are each their own character.

OOT Link is NOT TP Link. Is it that hard to understand?

 

[vesperview]

It's as simple as this vesperview: despite a name change, Ness and Lucas are no more different characters than OOT Link and TP Link. OOT Link and TP Link are each their own character.

OOT Link is NOT TP Link. Is it that hard to understand?

Ok, same tunic, same sword, same face, same boots, same hat, same voice... how is OOT Link different than TP Link? don't be a fool no one would fall for that, of course this comes from someone named "Burrito" lol!

 

[EricShiznit]

There should be no reps from Mother. All 3 games were simple, boring, and very hurtful to the eyes. The plots and characters were just cliche after cliche. All 3 of the games could've been released on NES, and I'm shocked that it has the fanbase it does. Frankly, I don't understand why they would bother releasing a "brand new" (very loosely thought of as brand new) game on a platform that has already been deemed obsolete.

Ness was good in Smash bros, but now that we have Lucas, it's time to upgrade to games with SNES graphics, and let Lucas be the little boy that nobody cares about. There is no reason, however, Metroid and Earthbound have the same number or characters in brawl, when there are half a dozen Metroid games, very popular games I might add, and 3 Earthbound games that almost NO ONE bought.

For all we know anyway, Sakurai got rid of that gay PK Cross, and now Lucas has Ness's moves plus a new "b" move.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

*grins* You're wrong on one point. OoT Link and TP Link have completely different voices. XD

 

[EricShiznit]

There should be no reps from Mother. All 3 games were simple, boring, and very hurtful to the eyes. The plots and characters were just cliche after cliche. All 3 of the games could've been released on NES, and I'm shocked that it has the fanbase it does. Frankly, I don't understand why they would bother releasing a "brand new" (very loosely thought of as brand new) game on a platform that has already been deemed obsolete.

Ness was good in Smash bros, but now that we have Lucas, it's time to upgrade to games with SNES graphics, and let Lucas be the little boy that nobody cares about. There is no reason, however, Metroid and Earthbound have the same number or characters in brawl, when there are half a dozen Metroid games, very popular games I might add, and 3 Earthbound games that almost NO ONE bought.

For all we know anyway, Sakurai got rid of that gay PK Cross, and now Lucas has Ness's moves plus a new "b" move.

 

[vesperview]

*grins* You're wrong on one point. OoT Link and TP Link have completely different voices. XD

Yes they do is the same stupid shriek everytime they're hit, still the voice is not part of his phenotype so that's out and not to be discussed.

There should be no reps from Mother. All 3 games were simple, boring, and very hurtful to the eyes. The plots and characters were just cliche after cliche. All 3 of the games could've been released on NES, and I'm shocked that it has the fanbase it does. Frankly, I don't understand why they would bother releasing a "brand new" (very loosely thought of as brand new) game on a platform that has already been deemed obsolete.

Ness was good in Smash bros, but now that we have Lucas, it's time to upgrade to games with SNES graphics, and let Lucas be the little boy that nobody cares about. There is no reason, however, Metroid and Earthbound have the same number or characters in brawl, when there are half a dozen Metroid games, very popular games I might add, and 3 Earthbound games that almost NO ONE bought.

For all we know anyway, Sakurai got rid of that gay PK Cross, and now Lucas has Ness's moves plus a new "b" move.

That is the most unnecesary topic ever! You're probably one of those euros who are just mad because they have never had a mother game in their hands, all three mother games are amazing.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

There should be no reps from Mother. All 3 games were simple, boring, and very hurtful to the eyes. The plots and characters were just cliche after cliche. All 3 of the games could've been released on NES, and I'm shocked that it has the fanbase it does. Frankly, I don't understand why they would bother releasing a "brand new" (very loosely thought of as brand new) game on a platform that has already been deemed obsolete.

Ness was good in Smash bros, but now that we have Lucas, it's time to upgrade to games with SNES graphics, and let Lucas be the little boy that nobody cares about. There is no reason, however, Metroid and Earthbound have the same number or characters in brawl, when there are half a dozen Metroid games, very popular games I might add, and 3 Earthbound games that almost NO ONE bought.

For all we know anyway, Sakurai got rid of that gay PK Cross, and now Lucas has Ness's moves plus a new "b" move.

Mother is one of Nintendo's best series, if you are able to appreciate how different it is of a game...Very unique with a strange sense of humor...

...Just because YOU can't appreciate it doesn't mean it's not worthy...it most definetly is an a large number of people think so...especially in Japan but also worldwide

 

[Yukiwarashi]

No they do not, Vesper. It's obvious you haven't played Twilight Princess, but Link's OoT seiyuu was not used in Twilight Princess. A completely new seiyuu voiced Link because you know, they are in fact of different Links. =l

 

[vesperview]

No they do not, Vesper. It's obvious you haven't played Twilight Princess, but Link's OoT seiyuu was not used in Twilight Princess. A completely new seiyuu voiced Link because you know, they are in fact of different Links. =l

Why is the voice supposed to be a problem and if it is another person doing the voice is certainly not that noticeable, plus the voice as I said is not part of his phenotype, he wears the same clothes, wields the same sword, has the same face, oh and yeah he's still blonde! they just improved his items, plus link doesn't even talk for his voice to be an issue so your point is?

And if you want two identical adult Links, whose only difference will be having a regular boomerang and hookshot instead of the gale boomerang and the clawshot, then you fail!

 

[burrito]

Ok, same tunic, same sword, same face, same boots, same hat, same voice... how is OOT Link different than TP Link? don't be a fool no one would fall for that, of course this comes from someone named "Burrito" lol!

OOT Link and TP Link have completely different items, have different relationships, and use different weapons and techniques. The only reason TP Link wears similar clothing to OOT Link is because he is given to it by the gods. TP Link actually wears different clothing at the beginning. Despite that, they're appearance is still enough to differentiate them: OOT and TP LInk have different colored tunics, OOT Link and TP Link have different hairstyles,TP Link wears chain mail armor.

Besides, I thought clothing/appearance wasn't enough to classify two characters as the same? If so, Ness and Lucas have: the same shirt, the same face, the same shoes, the same pants, the same build. Should I say that Ness and Lucas are the same character now? Hmmmmm...

And if you want two identical adult Links, whose only difference will be having a regular boomerang and hookshot instead of the gale boomerang and the clawshot, then you fail!

They have even more potential for different movesets than Ness and Lucas would.

 

[Pete278]

OOT Link and TP Link have completely different items, have different relationships, and use different weapons and techniques. The only reason TP Link wears similar clothing to OOT Link is because he is given to it by the gods. TP Link actually wears different clothing at the beginning. Despite that, they're appearance is still enough to differentiate them: OOT and TP LInk have different colored tunics, OOT Link and TP Link have different hairstyles,TP Link wears chain mail armor.

Besides, I thought clothing/appearance wasn't enough to classify two characters as the same? If so, Ness and Lucas have: the same shirt, the same face, the same shoes, the same pants, the same build. Should I say that Ness and Lucas are the same character now? Hmmmmm...


They have even more potential for different movesets than Ness and Lucas would.

Might I add, given to him by the gods because the last Link wore it.

 

[freeman123]

 

[blayde_axel]

I nominate this thread be closed since the thread starter has been banned, further nulling his claims. All in favor?

 

[freeman123]

I think that this topic should have been closed to begin with, because there are already topics for Ness and Lucas. He's entitled to his opinion, but what if each person who had an opinion about the same thing made a separate topic about it? That would be like putting 2 Links in Smash Bros. Nevermind, that was a bad analogy.

 

[blayde_axel]

I think that this topic should have been closed to begin with, because there are already topics for Ness and Lucas. He's entitled to his opinion, but what if each person who had an opinion about the same thing made a separate topic about it? That would be like putting 2 Links in Smash Bros. Nevermind, that was a bad analogy.

I understand what you are pointing at, but what you said before... Luke Groundwalker is a Douche bag. "Opinion" to him means "bashing." So this should be closed.

 

[freeman123]

I didn't call him anything. Young Link did.

 

[blayde_axel]

I didn't call him anything. Young Link did.

Point taken.
Still, we have no proof that Ness is out yet. Although this is a forum of speculation, people have seemed to take that as an excuse to say that something as fact. With misguided evidence and fabricated facts, we've seen people say that someone is out with nothing to back it up. So...

Close this sucka!

 

[vesperview]

OOT Link and TP Link have completely different items, have different relationships, and use different weapons and techniques. The only reason TP Link wears similar clothing to OOT Link is because he is given to it by the gods. TP Link actually wears different clothing at the beginning. Despite that, they're appearance is still enough to differentiate them: OOT and TP LInk have different colored tunics, OOT Link and TP Link have different hairstyles,TP Link wears chain mail armor.

Besides, I thought clothing/appearance wasn't enough to classify two characters as the same? If so, Ness and Lucas have: the same shirt, the same face, the same shoes, the same pants, the same build. Should I say that Ness and Lucas are the same character now? Hmmmmm...


They have even more potential for different movesets than Ness and Lucas would.

So that means that you can put every Link that ever existed just because they are in different timelines and have different items? eh... NO!

That is like saying that because Mario has different items in Mario 64 he's not the same Mario from all of the other previous games, they have never publicized Link as being a different character in each game and I think this only applies to Wind Waker, plus, Link is the hero of time despite what game, time or who he interacts with, also, his tunic is just a little darker, and of course that they are going to be different from one game to another, that's why they improve games so you know... people don't get bored, so please is a stupid argument and stop discussing stuff that ain't gonna happen, you won't see two adult Links in Brawl, and you don't know about the hair because OoT Link never takes his hat off. Neither has it ever been implied that Lucas is Ness in another time for the comparison to even be viable.

Oh let's put Mario from Super Mario World and Mario from Mario 64 cause you know, they fly differently:

lol!

 

[freeman123]

They already had two Links in Melee, for the 400th time. They had two Marios too. That argument is bad.