Why my love for JRPGs has diminished

[finalark]

Link to original post: [drupal=4119]Why my love for JRPGs has diminished[/drupal]

I used to adore JRPGs, I grew up playing them on my PlayStation as a kid and played them to death on my GBA when I had the chance. When I was younger, I got a hold of as many JRPGs as a could and beat them all (or at least got as far as I could before I got bored). But lately I’ve noticed that they aren’t what they used to be to me. And I don’t mean the genre’s recent decline as a whole, I mean that they don’t mean what they once meant to me. And I believe this can be traced back to the day I got a game by the name of Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.

I was always a console gamer. My parents never needed a computer for anything more than doing taxes and such so it wasn’t particularly powerful meaning that we rarely had any games on it. So I grew up playing my games on consoles, mostly with my older cousin who we often visited. I was through him that I was introduced to RPGs a whole thanks to Final Fantasy on the PS1 and a game that I would later learn was Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall on the PC. It was through him that I played numerous NES, SNES and N64 in addition to a few Game Boy games on his GBC (including Pokemon Red and Gold). However, it eventually came time for him to head off to collage and as parting gifts he gave me Final Fantasy Origins (containing FFI and II), Final Fantasy Chronicles (Chrono Trigger and FFIV) and Final Fantasy IX. I played and loves these games to death on my own PS1 which I got for Christmas a year or so prior. These games where like nothing I had ever seen before at that time. They had massive worlds that sucked me in as I almost felt like I was their alongside the characters. I didn’t boot up my PlayStation to play games, I did it to go on an adventure.

My adventures in JRPGs didn’t stop there, though. I got a GBA for Christmas in 2002 or so. Even though I had a Game Cube, which severally lacked in good JRPGs (TALES OF SYMPHONIA IS BLAND, GENERIC AND FORGETTABLE), the GBA thankfully let me continue playing. It was on the GBA that I played Breathe of Fire, Golden Sun, Sword of Manna and numerous other JRPGs. I loved them all (except for Riviera, that game sucks) and they still bring some great memories.

But then my parents decided that it was time for a new computer, so they went out and bought one. This new computer, while not mind-blowing awesome, was enough to run a good number of games. I bought Starcraft and one or two more games for it over the course of the year. But then I got Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind for my birthday. It was absolutely mind-blowing, an RPG where I can go and explore. It was an RPG where I wasn’t restricted to the storyline, I could go anywhere, talk to anybody, and do whatever I wanted. For once I actually felt like I was my character, this was something absolutely new to me. The idea of an RPG where I wasn’t restricted to a linear storyline and a pre-made protagonist with a personality set in stone. At the time I had a friend who was pretty into PC gaming, RPGs in particular, who gave me several suggestions. Among these games he suggested that I ended up borrow or buying were Never Winter Nights (which actually got me into Dungeons and Dragons) and Knights of the Old Republic. All of these games immersed me into their world and did exactly what JRPGs once did for me only ten times better.

Don’t get me wrong, I still like JRPGs. I enjoy their dungeon crawling, their approach to character customization, their foreign worlds and sometimes (well, closer to rarely) even their stories and characters (when they’re not trying to shove a million anime clichés down your throat). But at the same time I also love western RPGs, perhaps a little more, for what they do. They draw me into their worlds and stories and make me care about the characters. They let me be myself in fantastic scenarios the truly feels like escapism. I love their game play, their diverse character customization and everything that makes them what they are.

tl;dr: I used to love JRPGs to death then I played Morrowind now I don’t like them as much as I used to.

 

[Jam Stunna]

tl;dr- JRPGS suck. It really is as simple as that, and one of the things Western RPGs do so well is to make all of their shortcomings so obvious that they can't be ignored.

 

[Melomaniacal]

What it really comes down to is that JRPGs are for kids. Sure, they were really amazing when I was 10, but as I grew, I realized that they all tell the same stories with the same characters and same cliches.

 

[Jam Stunna]

What it really comes down to is that JRPGs are for kids. Sure, they were really amazing when I was 10, but as I grew, I realized that they all tell the same stories with the same characters and same cliches.

And that they try to differentiate those same stories by including increasingly more convoluted battle systems.

 

[fkacyan]

tl;dr- JRPGS suck. It really is as simple as that, and one of the things Western RPGs do so well is to make all of their shortcomings so obvious that they can't be ignored.

Western RPGs are also pretty ****ty.

 

[finalark]

And that they try to differentiate those same stories by including increasingly more convoluted battle systems.

That and increasingly convoluted retellings of the same stories.

 

[fkacyan]

That and increasingly convoluted retellings of the same stories.

Have you played more than one WRPG? Almost every single WRPG tells the same story as well.

 

[finalark]

Have you played more than one WRPG? Almost every single WRPG tells the same story as well.

Have you seen this chart?

Spoiler

There's anther one for JRPGs, too lazy to find it. I still think that western RPGs tend to do a better job at pulling you in than JRPGs.

 

[fkacyan]

Have you seen this chart?

Spoiler

There's anther one for JRPGs, too lazy to find it. I still think that western RPGs tend to do a better job at pulling you in than JRPGs.

it's not just Bioware; almost every single WRPG is:

AN ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS

And I think it just has to do with how well each individual game is crafted, really. It's just easy to generalize JRPGs because so many studios pump them out and we get relatively few WRPGs in comparison.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

I don't think I've ever played a game with a story that was actually in the realm of awesome.

 

[Skadorski]

I don't think I've ever played a game with a story that was actually in the realm of awesome.

The World Ends With You had a really good story imo.
Never really played any other JRPGs though.

 

[Melomaniacal]

My issue is that JRPGs take basic archetypes and do nothing to them. The characters behave exactly how you think they will behave based off the first minute of introducing them.

That, and I hate feeling like I play no role in how the story progresses. I like interaction, and JRPGs are movies. Mediocre, long movies. With WRPGs, I can play the character how I want to play, and even if the story's result is the same, I can at least alter how we reach the conclusion.

Basically, Square needs to stop making video games, and start making ****ty movies.

 

[MK26]

There's anther one for JRPGs, too lazy to find it. I still think that western RPGs tend to do a better job at pulling you in than JRPGs.

I am intensely amused by large flow charts:

 

[finalark]

it's not just Bioware; almost every single WRPG is:

AN ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS

That's basically what I was saying. Anyway, Bioware is kind of like the Square of the Western RPG world in the sense that they make the most well-known Western RPGs. The biggest difference being hat Bioware actually makes new IPs rather than Square who have made fourteen (mostly) different games all with the same name.

My issue is that JRPGs take basic archetypes and do nothing to them. The characters behave exactly how you think they will behave based off the first minute of introducing them.

Pretty much. In most JRPGs I can tell you exactly what personality each character holds just by looking at their character design. Especially those who look to anime for inspiration.

That, and I hate feeling like I play no role in how the story progresses. I like interaction, and JRPGs are movies. Mediocre, long movies. With WRPGs, I can play the character how I want to play, and even if the story's result is the same, I can at least alter how we reach the conclusion.

Just you summed up one of the biggest reasons why I prefer WRPGs.

I am intensely amused by large flow charts: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_r9FQXmZtsR8/TMFOU08uKvI/AAAAAAAAAlg/QqeWWeQvdS4/s1600/gi_rpgflowchart.jpg
(it doesnt look any good resized, so here's a link)

And that was the chart I was going to link.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

The World Ends With You had a really good story imo.
Never really played any other JRPGs though.

Oh yeah, that RPG slipped my mind somehow lol, Although for a JRPG it was really unique in most ways.

 

[Falconv1.0]

On the subject of wrpg's, everything Bioware does right is a complete accident.

And Dragon Age was ****ing terrible.

 

[finalark]

On the subject of wrpg's, everything Bioware does right is a complete accident.

And Dragon Age was ****ing terrible.

You do know that Bioware has made more than just Dragon Age and Mass Effect, right?

 

[4 Aces]

My issue is that JRPGs take basic archetypes and do nothing to them. The characters behave exactly how you think they will behave based off the first minute of introducing them.

That, and I hate feeling like I play no role in how the story progresses. I like interaction, and JRPGs are movies. Mediocre, long movies. With WRPGs, I can play the character how I want to play, and even if the story's result is the same, I can at least alter how we reach the conclusion.

Basically, Square needs to stop making video games, and start making ****ty movies.

I'm the opposite; I don't find the multiple choices all that appealing; the constant breaks in between dialogue with you and your friends going "NO NO THAT ONE! THAT SENTENCE IS COOLER!" is lame, and even when I'm by myself, I tend to just get wrapped up in even the most simplest decision-making portions, which is further discouraged when hardly a difference happens -- or sometimes the change is too major. I just don't find it to be as appealing as most people hype it up to be. I find JRPGs pull me in moreso than WRPG (doesn't mean that I won't play them). But it seems that I'm in the minority here.

 

[Falconv1.0]

You do know that Bioware has made more than just Dragon Age and Mass Effect, right?

Is that a real question? Of course I know they've made other games.

 

[finalark]

Is that a real question? Of course I know they've made other games.

Yeah, well in this day and age of twelve year olds screaming over XBL and Gears of War a surprising number of people had no idea that Bioware made any games before Mass Effect 1.

I've never played any of the Dragon Ages so no opinion there.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Yeah, well in this day and age of twelve year olds screaming over XBL and Gears of War a surprising number of people had no idea that Bioware made any games before Mass Effect 1.

I've never played any of the Dragon Ages so no opinion there.

The changes made from ME1-ME2 show a lack of much real thought, and the issues in both are just glaringly dumb. It's so hard to say you 'x' whatever amount of gun, right guys? So let's just have you go through 5 of the same ****ing item when you scroll through ****. Oh, they didn't like that? Let's just take out the system entirely! And **** armor customization, the best armor is **** you download! Also, if they're going to make a class that puts the game on super easy mode (Sentinel), can they at least make it a bit more obvious before you start the ****ing thing?

Also, KotOR is so ****ing overrated, I swear.

 

[finalark]

The changes made from ME1-ME2 show a lack of much real thought, and the issues in both are just glaringly dumb. It's so hard to say you 'x' whatever amount of gun, right guys? So let's just have you go through 5 of the same ****ing item when you scroll through ****. Oh, they didn't like that? Let's just take out the system entirely! And **** armor customization, the best armor is **** you download! Also, if they're going to make a class that puts the game on super easy mode (Sentinel), can they at least make it a bit more obvious before you start the ****ing thing?

That was more or less some of my problems with the ME games. ME1 had a inventory system that was a hassle to navigate in addition to the Mako, which controlled like a greased motorcycle on ice. And ME2 was just so dumbed down to the point where I was starting to wonder if Bioware didn't think very highly of it's players or if EA asked them to make it easier for the Madden fans to understand.

Also, KotOR is so ****ing overrated, I swear.

My opinion on Kotor is the same as my opinion on Ocarina of Time. It's good, but nowhere near as mind-rapingly awesome as everyone claims it is.

 

[*JuriHan*]

i feel same way with same games. After getting into the elder scrolls series, I don't even know what other rpgs are... including zelda games =/

ffx was my last jrpg that i enjoyed.

 

[fkacyan]

That was more or less some of my problems with the ME games. ME1 had a inventory system that was a hassle to navigate in addition to the Mako, which controlled like a greased motorcycle on ice. And ME2 was just so dumbed down to the point where I was starting to wonder if Bioware didn't think very highly of it's players or if EA asked them to make it easier for the Madden fans to understand.



My opinion on Kotor is the same as my opinion on Ocarina of Time. It's good, but nowhere near as mind-rapingly awesome as everyone claims it is.

You have to look at games in the context of their release. OoT defined the 3d adventure game - Games are STILL based on the core tenants of OoT over a decade later.

 

[finalark]

You have to look at games in the context of their release. OoT defined the 3d adventure game - Games are STILL based on the core tenants of OoT over a decade later.

Ugh, not this **** again.

All I'm gonna say is that it's very nice that OoT did that. I couldn't care less about what it did back in '98 because as far as I'm concerned what really matters with old games is if they stand the test of time. Could someone today who has never played OoT in their life pick it up and enjoy it just as much as we all did back in '98?

I don't know, it's been nearly ten years since I last played OoT. I personally think WW was better anyway.

 

[fkacyan]

Ugh, not this **** again.

All I'm gonna say is that it's very nice that OoT did that. I couldn't care less about what it did back in '98 because as far as I'm concerned what really matters with old games is if they stand the test of time. Could someone today who has never played OoT in their life pick it up and enjoy it just as much as we all did back in '98?

I don't know, it's been nearly ten years since I last played OoT. I personally think WW was better anyway.

Yes, OoT is still just as good. Can't wait for its portable release.

WW is great until TRIFORCE SEARCH MUST EXTEND PLAYTIME

 

[EpixAura]

I really like JRPGs, but I like WRPGs, too, and I don't think I could decide which is better. I admit JRPGs use similar stories over and over, but that's because it works so well. Take FFVII. Sure it's incredibly stereotypical, even the fans should acknowledge that, but it truly is amazing. People were fine with taking an old formula, and just adding a few twists and turns.
The problem is, nearly every twist and turn has been done. It's hard for a series to change plot structure altogether, but if they don't, the games end up remarkably average. The World Ends With You, on the other hand, is easily the most original JRPG I've seen to date, and I LOVED it. We just need a little more diverse plot structures to bring JRPGs back.
WRPGs are about the same. Since they weren't always very popular, they haven't had to change plot structures much, but now the repetition is becoming apparent as well. They will be in the exact same position JRPGs are in now while the JRPGs will be back and selling strong due to the return of originality.
Then the "original" plot structure will also become stale, and the WRPGs will come up with a new structure and win. Then JRPGs will, then WRPGs will.
It's a cycle. Give it a while.

 

[finalark]

Yes, OoT is still just as good. Can't wait for its portable release.

I'll find out once I've replayed it on the 3DS.

WW is great until TRIFORCE SEARCH MUST EXTEND PLAYTIME

That was the only part of WW I didn't like.

 

[Espy Rose]

You do know that Bioware has made more than just Dragon Age and Mass Effect, right?

They also made Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I actually thought FFXIII did a good job story wise, but meh. I'll admit the villian fell short, though. To each their own you know?

 

[Jam Stunna]

Ugh, not this **** again.

All I'm gonna say is that it's very nice that OoT did that. I couldn't care less about what it did back in '98 because as far as I'm concerned what really matters with old games is if they stand the test of time. Could someone today who has never played OoT in their life pick it up and enjoy it just as much as we all did back in '98?

I don't know, it's been nearly ten years since I last played OoT. I personally think WW was better anyway.

This is exactly how I feel about Super Mario 64.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't it pretty commonly known that the Japanese are falling way behind in the video game industry? Just look 25 years ago, it was hard to find a game NOT from Japan. These days, the vast majority of games non-Nintendo are made domestically. Weird how Japanese power has declined in the last century, from military, to economic, to the video game world.

 

[finalark]

Isn't it pretty commonly known that the Japanese are falling way behind in the video game industry? Just look 25 years ago, it was hard to find a game NOT from Japan. These days, the vast majority of games non-Nintendo are made domestically. Weird how Japanese power has declined in the last century, from military, to economic, to the video game world.

That can mostly be blamed on Microsoft. After the crash of '83 it looked like us westerners had no idea how to keep the video game market afloat, which lead to the Japanese to do it instead. Because the market was dominated by Japanese consoles that meant a vast majority of the games were Japanese. Then along came the Xbox, the first successful western console since the Atari 2600, which eventually exploded into the Xbox 360 and practically became the center of the video game world.

The dominance of a western console brought the techniques and style of often western developed PC games. This came as a ***** slap to the Japanese developers who were convinced that the Xbox was a baka gaijin console due to the fact that it was in a distant third in Japan (and the 360 still is). Now Japanese developers are trying to use old techniques and game design that come off as dated and out of place in a western-dominated gaming world.

 

[Teran]

Ugh, not this **** again.

All I'm gonna say is that it's very nice that OoT did that. I couldn't care less about what it did back in '98 because as far as I'm concerned what really matters with old games is if they stand the test of time. Could someone today who has never played OoT in their life pick it up and enjoy it just as much as we all did back in '98?

I don't know, it's been nearly ten years since I last played OoT. I personally think WW was better anyway.

I agree with this to an extent, but I also think it is sort of true that the release period should be kept in mind. We're used to glossy visuals, smooth controls, all sorts of things.

We were used to a lot of different mechanics back then, and although they work very well, they still might feel very unrefined, not to mention people ARE put off by bad graphics to an extent, there is no denying it.

However, a game that stands the test of time is one with content so fantastic that it can overshadow all its dated aspects. OoT for me does not really do that so well. It has some great music (but then again a bit of nostalgia, although still the music is great), and it bleeds Zelda, but it's a bit kinda get from A to B and kill Ganon.

The reason why Majora's Mask stood the test of time for me is that they decided to push into a deeper storyline, a massive amount of dialogue with implications, lots of subtle hints about the world and its history dropped here and there, a whole world of characters that feel alive. I still get that sense today, so I can still play it and forget how terrible it looks.

Also definitely agree with Jam about Mario 64. Mario games to me are now nothing more than a souped up tech demo. This isn't a bad thing, in fact it's great. Nintendo don't need to worry about story with Mario, we all know what happens. All they have to focus on is gameplay and taking advantage of the new controls. This means some really tight controls and great gameplay, but I mean, does Mario honestly give you that "wooow" feeling you get when you've just finished one of those special games? Not for me, and tbh they don't age so well, the 3D ones. Donkey Kong 64 had ten million times more personality and content, that stands the test of time for me.

2D Mario games had flair to them though, plus 2D games never get old, there's something about them.

And I'm just rambling, but yeah JRPGs suck and are always so generic because that's how the Japanese want them. So whatever, let them have their **** games, every now and again a gem like Monster Hunter will come out of that region. Notice how the game is action RPG LOL, and it's like a huge craze. It's not that they don't like change so much, it's that they hate anything that isn't Japanese.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Nintendo aside (that empire will never die), JRPGs are in a heavy decline. But every genre goes through that. (Platformers did a while back) Do to the massive influence of fps, I think that genre may be next.

 

[finalark]

Nintendo aside (that empire will never die), JRPGs are in a heavy decline. But every genre goes through that. (Platformers did a while back) Do to the massive influence of fps, I think that genre may be next.

When were platformers ever in decline? Sure, last gen most of us ignored the genre but with platformers you can pretty much go back to any era in gaming history and platformers had it good.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

When were platformers ever in decline? Sure, last gen most of us ignored the genre but with platformers you can pretty much go back to any era in gaming history and platformers had it good.

I was kinda refering to last gen. The N64/PS1 Era brought in SO MANY PLATFORMERS. Like I'm just now playing Rayman for the first time ever. Then the PS2/GCN era they had far less. This generation had good[SMG2] platformers, though.

They didn't "die", they just had a falling out sorta. I think JRPGs are just going through that right now. I really think in the future they'll recover. Actually, there are a few I plan on trying:

-Gave up on Star Ocean 4. there's so much boring content it's a waste of time for me..

-TWEWY
-Golden Sun[DS]
-DQIX
-DQVI
-Eternal Sonata

A few to name off the top of my head. Yeah, the DS has a lot of good jrpgs, XD. Eternal Sonata is on the PS3, but it looks really fun to me.

 

[finalark]

I was kinda refering to last gen. The N64/PS1 Era brought in SO MANY PLATFORMERS. Like I'm just now playing Rayman for the first time ever. Then the PS2/GCN era they had far less. This generation had good[SMG2] platformers, though.

Just because there were less platformers doesn't mean that quality dropped. Sly Cooper, Jak, Mario Sunshine, Ratchet and Clank. Are very good platformers from last gen (although R&C is more TPS than it is platformer).

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

True, but if you think about it, it's the same with JRPGs. The quality is still there[imo], just way, way less.

-FFXIIIis very underrated.

-While I don't like the loads of content, Star Ocean is still going strong.

-Monster Hunter is probably the best jrpg of this generation.

-Eternal Sonata(played it a bit) seems to be fairly nice, reminds me of Grandia...

Anyways I don't know, it just seems like Japan is going through a tough spot in general. There are still great JP games, just far less than there use to be. I think in the end JP will get better and what not, but meh.

I have to say, Moon Diver is <3. I wish you would get that, FinalArk. Me and my friend need a third

 

[finalark]

I have to say, Moon Diver is <3. I wish you would get that, FinalArk. Me and my friend need a third

I should get that, it does actually look pretty interesting. Right now I don't have a TV that my PS3 is compatible with (long story), so it's kind of out of commission for a while.