Why isn't auto L Canceling an option?

[Veishi336]

sounds like a fun thread...this is my opinion completely in every way: Yes L cancelling is needless we should all know this, but i know i enjoy having it as a small upper-hand on other players who don't do it well. I enjoy having the upper-hand due to my ability to do a mechanic. Just like with other fighting games, there are certain COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS button combinations to do something as simple as a high damage combo grab or just a special. Even though that combination is absolutely ridiculous in everyway, i know it is wonderfully satisfying to pull it off. L-cancelling just allows you to help maneuver a little bit more and is also very satisfying to do. Hey if they put in a toggle for no l cancelling ill be fine with it... i just wont use it. Sorry for those joint shortcomings though but just do you as best as possible man.

 

[Celestis]

Pretty sure this topic is dead.
I hate the idea of not having to L cancel. I L cancel in Smash 4 cause it feels right.

 

[Pfhor]

Could achieving these small positives L-cancel adds to the game be done the same way with a better mechanic, certainly yes. But would I ask Project M to remove L-cancel? I wouldn't ask Street Fighter to remove motions, it's part of the identity of that gameplay, even though they're much bigger and intrusive artificial barriers for new players.

This is a bit of a false equivalency. Motions in fighting games are there to force players into a chain of inputs which may limit what else they can do at the same time. For instance, if Ryu is inputting a fireball or shoryuken, he can't block for the 4 frames it takes to input the motion, or if Guile is charging a Sonic Boom he can't advance forward for a few frames. A fighting game that takes away motions would fundamentally change high level play, and unless I am missing something, making L-cancel automatic would not be such a drastic change.

 

[Aex]

Not allowed in competitive play though.

Even if the PMDT were to add an automatic L-cancel option, it still wouldn't be allowed in competitive play, the same way input assist isn't allowed in competitive play.

 

[masterpad]

lmao!

and what else, an auto shield option on hit?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

lmao!

and what else, an auto shield option on hit?

Strawmaning doesn't help you out.

 

[masterpad]

apologises , I let myself go.

 

[.alizarin]

the usual argument that i see against l-canceling is that it's an unnecessary input and that there is no situation where you would strategically miss an l-cancel. however, one could argue that since the l-cancel input overrides the ac option (also i would like a confirmation/denial on this because i'm not entirely sure), l-canceling puts you in a risk/reward situation and gives ac aerials an inherent risk in using them, creating situations where you would and wouldn't want to l-cancel. just something to consider.

 

[GP&B]

AC puts you into impact landing (4 frames) as long as the aerial's subaction allows it. Anywhere in-between gives you aerial landing lag. An input during AC wouldn't have any effect.

 

[.alizarin]

that's not what i meant lol

l-cancel inputs only work before you land while in the middle of the aerial animation, yeah? the ac window and ac action itself is the act of landing during the animation during a specific frame-window. obviously inputting an l-cancel when you've already landed (ie: the ac animation/impact landing) does nothing because you missed the window for the l-cancel. what i asked is if you input the l cancel prior to landing, but still land during the window that lets you ac, will the l cancel (sped-up aerial recovery animation) override the ac animation (impact landing)? if it does, then there's a risk/reward thing is there and l-canceling has a reason to stay. if it doesn't, l-canceling should either be removed or be made to override.

 

[GP&B]

No, because aerial landing lag wasn't induced to begin with.

 

[Boardwalk]

instead of the football example. think about basketball free throws. you practice it a million times, not very hard, same thing everytime. but you still have to execute it when the time is right. if you want to take all the execution skill out of the game, just play a strategy game like chess. when you start getting more consistent with l canceling and start to string together longer combos it will be rewarding to see yourself improve

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

instead of the football example. think about basketball free throws. you practice it a million times, not very hard, same thing everytime. but you still have to execute it when the time is right. if you want to take all the execution skill out of the game, just play a strategy game like chess. when you start getting more consistent with l canceling and start to string together longer combos it will be rewarding to see yourself improve

I hate the sports analogies.

Yes there are easy technical to basketball and other sports, but ultimately choice and what people value to see made done are different.

Dibbling is to make sure someone doesn't just hog the ball and run down with it like in Football, freethrows are a reward on enalties but also open up the idea of intentionally missing so you can aim for a 2 pointer instead of just 1.

It has purpose or choice, something that L-Cancel lacks.

 

[Phaiyte]

cuz this would make newbies life easier, and the game less fun, and more simple for more simple minded people and i would hate and so would everyone who likes competitive play and because bowser

If L cancelling is literally the only thing making the game "fun" for you, you may want to reevaluate your entire life.

On top of which, if the only thing you can come up with is a fear of an L cancelling Bowser, you should seriously consider quitting Smash altogether or just accept the fact that you are mega bad.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've always wondered what Sakurai/HAL were thinking when they implemented z and l cancelling. Why would people so invested in the idea of making an experience that anyone can enjoy put such an arbitrary skill barrier in their game?

CPUs use it to cheat. Clearly wasn't enough... But anyway, it was either so players could be equal to the CPUs (lolololol), it was just an Easter Egg, or was left with a real imput because Smash 64 had a non-existent budget and was grandfathered over to Melee. (It's worth mentioning Master Hand also has real imputs, so it may of not been possible even then.)

 

[masterpad]

in my opinion setting pm to auto L-canceling is just an heresy to SSBMelée.

Even if PM actually have his specificities that make him not identic to mélée, the fidelity to mélée main advanced technics is one of the core of projectM; and L-Canceling is a mélée main advanced technics!


I have another proposition to improve ProjectM. Please people, tell me what you think:
http://smashboards.com/threads/my-c...than-the-l-cancel-blink.395549/#post-18791348

 

[GP&B]

That's literally saying "because Melee". It also doesn't help your case that several Melee mechanics have been altered as is, namely ledge occupation duration, meteor cancel window, and ledge grab invincibility limit (which is more of a universal change) all for the sake of a better game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

in my opinion setting pm to auto L-canceling is just an heresy to SSBMelée.

Even if PM actually have his specificities that make him not identic to mélée, the fidelity to mélée main advanced technics is one of the core of projectM; and L-Canceling is a mélée main advanced technics!


I have another proposition to improve ProjectM. Please people, tell me what you think:
http://smashboards.com/threads/my-c...than-the-l-cancel-blink.395549/#post-18791348

That's not sound reasoning.

Yes it was an advanced technique but does it at it's core benefit game-play. Just because it was in Melee, doesn't mean it was a good idea.

People need to stop trying to treat PM like it is Melee 2.0, it's not. It needs to set itself apart as being a good core smash game instead of just Melee with updated graphics. Change is inevitable, but games need to evolve and push forward in what is better or worse game-play.

Technical play should matter, but the real question as a designer is, why is this here? What does it accomplish for gameplay? Is this necessary?

Just because it was something that existed in a past game doesn't mean you leave it alone and never touch it again.

 

[Foo]

That's not sound reasoning.

Yes it was an advanced technique but does it at it's core benefit game-play. Just because it was in Melee, doesn't mean it was a good idea.

People need to stop trying to treat PM like it is Melee 2.0, it's not. It needs to set itself apart as being a good core smash game instead of just Melee with updated graphics. Change is inevitable, but games need to evolve and push forward in what is better or worse game-play.

Technical play should matter, but the real question as a designer is, why is this here? What does it accomplish for gameplay? Is this necessary?

Just because it was something that existed in a past game doesn't mean you leave it alone and never touch it again.

Honestly, I DO consider PM to be melee 2. Keep in mind, a sequel doesn't mean "here's the same exact thing again."I imagine PM to be around what would of happened if nintendo decided to make a sequel to melee, rather than making brawl a totally different game. However, like any good sequel, it can remove bad mechanics from the previous one, add new content, and tweak current mechanics to refine the game as a whole.

There is no smash game like 64, and there is no (official) smash game like melee, but sm4sh is like a sequel to brawl. It is very similar overall, but has lots of tweaks, new mechanics, and removal of old mechanics they decided weren't good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Honestly, I DO consider PM to be melee 2. Keep in mind, a sequel doesn't mean "here's the same exact thing again."I imagine PM to be around what would of happened if nintendo decided to make a sequel to melee, rather than making brawl a totally different game. However, like any good sequel, it can remove bad mechanics from the previous one, add new content, and tweak current mechanics to refine the game as a whole.

There is no smash game like 64, and there is no (official) smash game like melee, but sm4sh is like a sequel to brawl. It is very similar overall, but has lots of tweaks, new mechanics, and removal of old mechanics they decided weren't good.

I can see it in that sense.

What I more so meant was people wanted to port everything from Melee without much thought as to why it should be back or not. In that sense is why I said melee 2.0 more so that it wants to copy Melee far more than reconsider certain elements within it.

Which is something I think Smash 4 did a lot better than PM did.

 

[Bleck]

there's a difference between "the good parts of Melee" and "it's good because it was in Melee"

 

[masterpad]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu @ GP&B pm is not melee 2.0 OK point taken.
Let's argue very seriously. " setting l-canceling to auto should be considered since there are no situations where fighter would not want to l-cancel"
May be I don't get it at all as this proposition still looks absurd to me.
MY REASONS:
- since We are talking about improving a competitive dedicated game. Lets reviens what made it competitive (no melee arguments)
* the fact that there are moves that needs skills to be performed!
* the fact that succeding in performing must of those moves is ONE OF the main factors to determines whether a player is more performant than an other or not.

A competitive game sets deep and complex conditions to execute things in game such as combos or special deadly attacks that serverly helps to take advantages .
NOW WHAT ABOUT LAND CANCEL IN P.M.
L-cancel is a timed moved performed to cancel the landing animation (after an air normal attack) so that the fighter can get back quickly in the fight . That could allows the fighter to execute combos by following his opponent with a another stryke
Or L-canceling could alloWs the fighter to quickly take defensive stance.

TO IMPROVE A COMPETITIVE GAME, IN WHAT WAYS SETTING L-CANCELING TO BE AUTOMATIC PERFORMED COULD REALLY HELPS?!

I am radically opposed, is my position and i explained why . I am really open to any explanation on what I din't understood.

In my opinion if automatic ledge grabbing is removed in the future and set to manual it will be relevant and not disturbing at all.Thank you

 

[Foo]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu @ GP&B pm is not melee 2.0 OK point taken.
Let's argue very seriously. " setting l-canceling to auto should be considered since there are no situations where fighter would not want to l-cancel"
May be I don't get it at all as this proposition still looks absurd to me.
MY REASONS:
- since We are talking about improving a competitive dedicated game. Lets reviens what made it competitive (no melee arguments)
* the fact that there are moves that needs skills to be performed!
* the fact that succeding in performing must of those moves is ONE OF the main factors to determines whether a player is more performant than an other or not.

A competitive game sets deep and complex conditions to execute things in game such as combos or special deadly attacks that serverly helps to take advantages .
NOW WHAT ABOUT LAND CANCEL IN P.M.
L-cancel is a timed moved performed to cancel the landing animation (after an air normal attack) so that the fighter can get back quickly in the fight . That could allows the fighter to execute combos by following his opponent with a another stryke
Or L-canceling could alloWs the fighter to quickly take defensive stance.

TO IMPROVE A COMPETITIVE GAME, IN WHAT WAYS SETTING L-CANCELING TO BE AUTOMATIC PERFORMED COULD REALLY HELPS?!

I am radically opposed, is my position and i explained why . I am really open to any explanation on what I din't understood.

In my opinion if automatic ledge grabbing is removed in the future and set to manual it will be relevant and not disturbing at all.Thank you

Not all difficulty is a good thing. If we wanted to, we could implement ALL KINDS of ridiculous crap to make the game more "difficult." We could throw in an unnecessary button press into just about everything. Why not have to press A and B to use smash attacks and disable the c-stick. Let's make tap jump the only option and make other jump buttons not work. How about, after every stock, we have to hit L+R otherwise we lose two stocks.

The thing with difficulty of input, is that you don't want to make it artificial. All of the most difficult things to do in smash are as simple as they can be without sacrificing depth (or adding more buttons for macros). Think about frame perfect multishining. There is no way to make that easier without adding a macro to do it, yet it's still basically impossible for a human to do in PM. If you want the game to be input intensive, you have to make the moveset complicated enough, or make the game fast enough to achieve this, you don't intentionally make your controls clunkier just for the sake of "difficulty." That's as lame as making a single player game more difficult as it progresses by simply upping the HP values on the enemies without improving AI. (Dark Souls is a great example of a game that DIDN'T take short cuts like that)

L-canceling isn't hard at all once you have the muscle memory anyway, all it does is serve as a wall to hinder newer players from getting into PM, which is something that PM really needs right now, new players.

Side note, @FireBall Stars and everyone else who suggested it, I feel that making is optional is actual the worst thing to do right now. It has to be mandatory one way or the other. If it's optional, all of the more casual players will turn it off, and all of the tourneys will keep it on. This will heavily discourage casual players from making the transition to tournament play. I almost certainly would not have gotten into competitive play if L-canceling was optional. I had a really hard time learning L-cancelling at first, and almost rage quit smash over it. Letting casual players turn it off, while all of the tournaments keep it on will just create an even bigger divide between casual and competitive players. (I think turning it off all around would REALLY help grow the tournament scene, that's why I am so adamant about it).

 

[Phaiyte]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu @ GP&B pm is not melee 2.0 OK point taken.
Let's argue very seriously. " setting l-canceling to auto should be considered since there are no situations where fighter would not want to l-cancel"
May be I don't get it at all as this proposition still looks absurd to me.
MY REASONS:
- since We are talking about improving a competitive dedicated game. Lets reviens what made it competitive (no melee arguments)
* the fact that there are moves that needs skills to be performed!
* the fact that succeding in performing must of those moves is ONE OF the main factors to determines whether a player is more performant than an other or not.

A competitive game sets deep and complex conditions to execute things in game such as combos or special deadly attacks that serverly helps to take advantages .
NOW WHAT ABOUT LAND CANCEL IN P.M.
L-cancel is a timed moved performed to cancel the landing animation (after an air normal attack) so that the fighter can get back quickly in the fight . That could allows the fighter to execute combos by following his opponent with a another stryke
Or L-canceling could alloWs the fighter to quickly take defensive stance.

TO IMPROVE A COMPETITIVE GAME, IN WHAT WAYS SETTING L-CANCELING TO BE AUTOMATIC PERFORMED COULD REALLY HELPS?!

I am radically opposed, is my position and i explained why . I am really open to any explanation on what I din't understood.

In my opinion if automatic ledge grabbing is removed in the future and set to manual it will be relevant and not disturbing at all.Thank you

Pressing a shield button before touching the ground doesn't "set deep and complex conditions" for execution. It is an absolutely needless tech barrier that wouldn't even effect players of the same skill level.


You don't have any real arguments to this other than "bcuz maylay", and you literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just admit that and we're cool.

 

[Bleck]

You don't have any real arguments to this other than "bcuz maylay", and you literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just admit that and we're cool.

this is basically what I want to say to literally everyone who argues in favor of l-canceling

 

[Phaiyte]

I don't even mind the fact that it's there. But if someone's going to try and say that it's an actually important part of the game I will point and laugh in your face irl and make a huge mockery of you.

 

[masterpad]

Pressing a shield button before touching the ground doesn't "set deep and complex conditions" for execution. It is an absolutely needless tech barrier that wouldn't even effect players of the same skill level.


You don't have any real arguments to this other than "bcuz maylay", and you literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just admit that and we're cool.

First of all, I love you all.
Be insulting is not an argument.
Excuse me but i may have no idea of what is really going on here but you people still didn't gave a single reason for setting l-cancel on auto.

may you please excuse my bad english i will try to explain myself again.

What i said about setting automatic ledge grapping to manual was to make my point.is a picture. I am not a maniac at all. It was a way to explain why L-cancel exists, it philosophy .

i gently expose my point and i will do it again since i don't get why you are tring to make me look stupid without arguing.
Actually there are games that requires really complicated commands to perform technics like Virtua Fighter or Budokai Tenkaishi 3 (recoveries) , and to my eyes, Smash makes everything so easy and i am still asking what is so negative about l-canceling?

IT IS SO LOGIC to have a landing animation, it is logic that while landing you are "loosing time" by leting the opportunity for your opponant to recover if you hit him or to punish you if you didn't hit him with your normal air-attack AND THEN it is logic and a good idea to settle a way to cancel this animation and to make this way achievable by a command that will reward the worthy.
Is a common creative process in designing fighting gameplays. Performing L-cancel makes me fell like "i am striking in the air and perfectly landing to stryke again or protect my self, but to LAND PARFECTLY THERE IS A PRICE"

If you are finding this command so easy to perform just do it and take advantages on other players. But i am still waiting for a clear explaination of it negetive effect!

Calling me a "bcuz maylay" is so outrageous and shows the empty in your reasons since i wrote about the general motives of competitive fighting games IN GENERAL. At least you could have said : i am wrong on how i consider competitive fighting games and explain it.

Excuse me to be such a stubborn but Before falling in love with Smash i used to play frequently various fighing games.
L-canceling looks so familliar to me and i am reallly open for a constructive reasons of his uselessness.
L-cancelling exist in many other formin other games.
L-canceling Is like the roman-cancel ( command to cancel an attack/grab/... that needs timing) in Guilty Gear since l-cancel helps to link attacks and perform combos especially at low percentage. Not every players of the game need it but many others do. Ike is my PM main and L-Canceling helps to react quickly and will really makes a difference between two ike.

If i remember correctly, Fox's combo: Neutral-Air/Down-Air+Down-B leads to deadly possibilities and it needs a L-cancel and i don't see where is the problem. if everybody is able to do it, very good! but a player even a pro could miss it for one reason or an other and it could make the difference during a match and that is enought to keep it.

Fighting gameplay mechanics have always work this ways, if you want a revolution very good ! what is your alternative? setting l-canceling to auto equals to no landing animation at all ;
This not about melee is about playing in a way that needs to be focus and skilled to have good results.
it hasn't be added to melée or PM from zero.
there should be a pool and in MY opinion you will understand that IT IS NOT A HERESY TO MELEE BUT TO THE WHOLE COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME PHILOSOPHY.

Since no one has explicitly, painstakingly explained why l-cancelling is important, (which is what OP wants, I guess), I'll give it my best shot:

As stated previously, L-cancelling gives you an edge; it makes your character perform better, but if you miss an l-cancel input, you are more likely to drop a combo or get punished. The result is that the pressure you were applying is suddenly halted in some way, and consequently, that your opponent can gain some sort of advantage. This gives the game a more interesting flow. No one gets every l-cancel ever single time. If it was just automatic, you would see less dynamic gameplay, more zero-to-death combos, and overall, less hype gameplay. It helps the game be more dramatic. It helps the game be more dynamic. It's something to improve on. It's a good thing; it's good design.

A final point: honestly, you sound like you're being whiney or trolling, both of which don't help your case at all. What competitive videogame has EVER been designed with ergonomics in mind? I mean, it sucks that you have ****ed up knuckle joints, but you don't ever hear someone with a missing finger/hand complaing that a game is too complicated and poorly designed for them to play, they just deal with it. I have a painful metatarsal condition that makes it hard for me to ride a bike without experiencing pain, and yet I ride my bike 10 miles to work every day; I don't ***** about how hard it is or how poorly designed bicycles are or some other nonsense; it's my CHOICE to ride a bike to work. You seem to like playing the game casually—maybe that's all you'll be able to do. Deal with it. This is a free mod that has taken THOUSANDS of hours to work out and it's not so simple as "adding an auto-L-cancel mode."

another

tbh all of your words are kinda extremely dumb. I'm not an extreme advocate of removing the need to L cancel as it's second nature now and I literally do it without even thinking, but your whole first paragraph only reiterates the point that there's no sense in not L cancelling and the fact that it is a needless tech barrier. If your positioning sucks so bad that you could possibly end up being 0-death'd, quite frankly you deserve it, and depending on your opponent to miss an L cancel is a /ridiculous/ crutch. That is not really "good design" at all, and I'd be hard pressed to believe you even know what that means lmao

Your second paragraph was just a slew of personal attacks and misinformation. Literally almost every good arcade game in the universe is ergonomically sound, especially some of the more recent ArkSys games. No one gives a **** about your pretentious bragging. And there's already a code that exists for auto L cancelling I'm pretty sure.

Please shut the **** up now.

WOAH! all this violence??!!

 

[GP&B]

L-canceling Is like the roman-cancel

I've never played GG and I know this is blatantly wrong. Roman cancels involve depleting a resource to expand your attack opportunities. L-canceling has no such downside to performing it, which is the big reason on why it's an arbitrary input; the other part being that it provides very little additional interaction (hitting shields, and that can be covered by buffering multiple inputs). It's just a way of needlessly complicating landing from an aerial (and contrary to what you said, traditional fighters typically lack any form of landing lag besides something similar to Smash's 4-frame impact landing). Most of the game's important challenges come from mastering movement and punish game, of which already have huge skill ceilings to them without L-canceling.

setting l-canceling to auto equals to no landing animation at all

No it doesn't. It means making halved landing lag the norm and L-canceled aerials can still be punished pretty easily depending on the spacing or lag of the move itself (ie. whiffing with Ike's fair or nair against a speed character will still leave you considerably open if they DD out of your range properly).

Also, don't quadruple post. The edit function exists for a reason.

 

[Kero the Invincible]

If I could offer a fresh perspective.

Smash has been one of my favourite series for a long time. And for as long as I've played it, I've held the "casual" mind-set.

I'd occasionally look at competitive melee matches, what with both players jetting around the stage at the speed of flub in ways I didn't think were even possible, and wound up.....twitching. I'd heard about stuff like L-Cancels, wave-dashing, DI, SHHFL, etc, but I always chalked it up to "crazy hard cyborgs only frame-perfect BS that I'd never be able to do". I was content to play brawl, and dabble in Smash 4, there's your litmus test.

Then, in the aftermath of a local Smash 4 tourney, I decided to maybe try some friendlies in Project M. I'd scored 3rd place in the Smash 4 tourney....and was routinely destroyed by the exact same people in PM. I wasn't surprised, but I figured I'd knuckle down and see if I couldn't learn what "competitive smash" was about. (I didn't have PM yet, so I practiced with Melee)

As it turns out, I CAN do all that stuff with enough practice, albeit not yet consistently. I realized that it's actually kinda fun learning all these things, "Spend less time in the air by learning to fast-fall", "Learning to short hop can help you attack and approach better", "DI right and you don't HAVE to die at that percentage", etc. But........I still get destroyed when I play Project M.

And that's when I realized....

All the crazy-hard stuff I'm seeing in tournament play isn't super high-level ninja skill, it's stuff you have to learn just to be able to play adequately. As such, Melee and PM both appear to have quite a skill barrier between casual and competitive play. Before one even get to consider things like match-ups and strategies, they essentially have to learn how to WALK.

AND.......I honestly don't mind. I know I'll get this stuff eventually. If I wanna get into the clubhouse, I gotta climb the tree. However, I'm not everybody. I do understand why people would want to set the bar a little lower, and L-cancelling does seem to be the most arbitrary of stumbling blocks. (There's literally NEVER a reason NOT to L-cancel.)

Think of it this way; You learn to fast-fall in case you want to get back to the ground faster, there's no "Auto Fast-Fall" because sometimes you DON'T want to plummet back to earth. You learn to short hop in case you want to use your aerials faster, there's no "Auto Short-Hop" because sometimes you WANT a full hop. You learn to L-Cancel because you don't want to be punished for using your moves, there's no "Auto L-Cancel" because........those moves ain't gonna cancel themselves son!

Saying Auto L-Cancelling is a terrible, game-ruining thing is honestly like berating someone because they can't drive a manual transmission. I mean sure, it's nice if you can, it's second nature to some people, it might even "feel good" in some way. But, it honestly doesn't ADD anything, other than a margin of error for people unfamiliar with it.

In that sense, they don't NEED to add the option, but it'd be nice if people were allowed to choose for themselves.

 

[SmokeOut]

This thread just seems really unnecessary to me. I actually don't care for L-canceling either way, I only practice and use to better my game. I would be fine with the suggestion of auto L-cancel, but honestly there is no way this will happen. Even if they add the option it will never be tournament standard. If your not into PM competitively then why care for it anyway? I actually agree with those opposed to it, but do you honestly see them getting rid of it? If you play competitively then you might as well just suck it up and learn it and if it bothers you that much then all I can say is maybe PM isn't the smash for you.

 

[Bleck]

This thread just seems really unnecessary to me.

this post just seems really unnecessary to me

 

[BluntedMask]

This again?

 

[Strong Badam]

This again?

If you're not going to contribute to the topic at hand, please just ignore the thread. This is basically spam/trolling.

 

[LittleFoxBot]

I used to view L-canceling as "just another button press," but after playing PM for over a year or so I realized how much the game thrives off of the physics between the characters. Some characters have vastly different jumps, fall speeds, and length of attacks. When trying to play different characters optimally, the timing of the L button presses becomes more of a factor in your muscle memory rather than just the act of remembering to press it. It may seem like what I'm saying is blatantly obvious, but try doing shorthop nair and bair cancels with Charizard, then try doing fullhop upair and dair L-cancels with Link. Because Smash is a relatively simple game to control, I think it feels right to have a button that allows you to bend your knees manually in addition to sliding and holding your ground.

 

[LordKKs]

Someone already said the point without all this wall of texts...the reason why L-cancel is in the game, is essencialy because humans do mistakes, if you miss your l-cancel at some point i maybe be able to punish you, at high lvl play, you could lose a match for this one tiny mistake, so that adds to the deph of competitive gameplay.

But i also understand why would be good to have automatic L-cancel, it would be more friendly to newcomers, probably increase the overall player base due to easy to use mechanics and more direct to the point (do combos, mindgames, etc..and not worry about canceling attacks).

Is kinda what smash 4 do with some moves of the cast...

 

[Kati]

Pretty sure no one's response actually addressed the tc's question. But maybe I'm just too scared of wading through pages of a trite argument.

This isn't a thread for debating l cancelling.

That dead horse already flew into the winds of time as decomposed dust.


The question is "why isn't auto l-cancelling an option?"

To which there is a simple answer. For every new "physical" feature PMDT has added, be it the turbo item, all star mode, or input assist, something has had to be taken out. PMDT has never once modified the menu system in such a way that they can insert brand new options.

Now that we have add on functionality though, the need to labour over menu editing is sort of a thing of the past. Assuming a few lines of code could enable brawl+esque landing lag, an add on containing only rsbe.gct could possibly be what the tc is looking for.

Again though guys, PMDT is a volunteer group, if you want it, try to do it yourself first. Between smashboards and the kitty corp forums you have access to all the resources you need to start injecting codes yourself.

 

[OSCA MIKE]

i dont mind l-cancelling, as ive been doing it since ive played melee

however, i again would not mind if l-cancelling became automatic; one less button for me to press

 

[Mr.Pickle]

As much as I like L canceling, and believe removing it is a step into the wrong direction, defending it is a bit of a losing battle. Standards have to be set regarding difficulty in video games, and with a game like smash, that consists of very simple inputs, L canceling is a great way to give something something difficulty, while keeping it decently simple. Making something in a video game difficult gives the action value, as you wouldn't get recognition or a sense of accomplishment from learning something easy. Though giving something that should be easy unnecessary difficulty, or too much is a slippery slope to that term people have been throwing around in here, "arbitrary difficulty". Now does L canceling fit that description? Well you can decide that for yourself, cause I honestly don't feel like bashing my head against the rock that is that argument.

Allow me though to pitch something that might appeal to the people against L canceling, how about we implement automatic L canceling, but only to a certain extent. What I mean by that is what if when you don't press a button, you get a slight reduction in lag, not a full cancel. Then you could have it to where when you do input a button to attempt to L cancel and miss, you get the full landing lag, giving you an actual reason not to L cancel, as you have quite a bit less risk to worry about, though the reward is lessened. It would also give more weight to attempting an L cancel, because even though with this method you reduce the most lag, you also risk the most lag.

I think it would be a nice middle ground to consider if it's needed. Because I'd rather the mechanic to not be removed completely, but at the same time, I can see people's arguments against it, and could see adjustments to it.

 

[GP&B]

That's actually one of the better ideas I've seen. Other solutions are usually unfeasible or make the mechanic much more obtuse than it should be.

And don't get me wrong with what I've been posting here. I'm very much used to L-canceling and I do enjoy it to some degree. I just don't have any issues with exposing it for what it is.

 

[SmokeOut]

this post just seems really unnecessary to me

So does this one...and this one. Deal with it troll just like we have to deal with you.