Why isn't auto L Canceling an option?

[KeyOfTruth]

You can't shield without inducing the powershield window. You can aerial without inducing L-cancel whether it's by choosing not to, auto-canceling, or letting the move finish before landing. PS-ing and shielding are tied to the same action. L-canceling is not.

How exactly does this change the validity of my comparison? Or was this not in that context? Because whether or not a technique is a specific timing or totally mapped to another button, both cases in my comparison suffer from zero mental depth addition and are basically arbitrary, artificial difficulty to get the result you want, which is a result always desired.

 

[Bleck]

I was thinking about how to clarify my statement when I realized I didn't have to 'cause I've already explained;

being able to powershield consistently involves being able to predict your opponents attacks correctly and reacting to them with the right timing

l-canceling doesn't involve any prediction; you just do the thing

powershielding is a reward for timing your reactions via prediction (of your opponent's action) perfectly; the efficacy of shielding increases (powershielding) or decreases (shielding too late) parallel to how fast or slow your timing with the shield is, and mastering shielding therefore involves mastering the timing and spacing of all attacks and how you can/should react to whether or not you powershield

l-canceling doesn't have that sort of depth; there is no almost-l-cancel analogous to normal shielding, there aren't multiple followups based on where and how and when you l-cancel, there aren't additional beneficial effects to l-canceling 'perfectly' because there is no 'perfect' l-canceling, there's just l-canceling, which you do every single time

if you force all shields to function as powershields or vice-versa, you're losing a significant amount of depth in the interactions between an attacking and shielding player; if you force all aerials to be l-canceled, nothing changes at all

 

[KeyOfTruth]

I was thinking about how to clarify my statement when I realized I didn't have to 'cause I've already explained;



powershielding is a reward for timing your reactions via prediction (of your opponent's action) perfectly; the efficacy of shielding increases (powershielding) or decreases (shielding too late) parallel to how fast or slow your timing with the shield is, and mastering shielding therefore involves mastering the timing and spacing of all attacks and how you can/should react to whether or not you powershield

And L-Cancelling is a reward for timing your reaction via a prior decision (indirectly influenced by an opponent's action) perfectly. The timing of L-Cancelling changes with many variables such as: height, fall speed, and hitlag. Mastering L-Cancelling is easier and thus should be removed? No. Each has their respective depth, but neither offer any mental depth, it's pure technical.

if you force all shields to function as powershields or vice-versa, you're losing a significant amount of depth in the interactions between an attacking and shielding player; if you force all aerials to be l-canceled, nothing changes at all

Blatantly false, I have proven this statement wrong myself. Frankly it's not hard to do. If you need me to redirect you to one of my many posts that discuss the purposes of L-Cancelling I will be glad to do so.

 

[GP&B]

And L-Cancelling is a reward for timing your reaction via a prior decision (indirectly influenced by an opponent's action) perfectly. The timing of L-Cancelling changes with many variables such as: height, fall speed, and hitlag. Mastering L-Cancelling is easier and thus should be removed? No. Each has their respective depth, but neither offer any mental depth, it's pure technical.

You clearly state here that the fundamentals behind L-Canceling and Powershielding are different (they're both rewards with entirely different requirements). So I'm not sure why you think the comparison still holds.

 

[KeyOfTruth]

You clearly state here that the fundamentals behind L-Canceling and Powershielding are different (they're both rewards with entirely different requirements). So I'm not sure why you think the comparison still holds.

Because they are both entirely technical oriented decisions that are always optimal therefore are deemed arbitrary. The purpose of my comparison was to show how little or how insignificant the reasoning behind removing manual L-Cancelling is on this thread. It's not near substantial enough to warrant PMDT to even consider adding auto L-Cancelling as an option.

Put simply the comparison is to depict the similarities both L-Cancelling and Powershielding have with one another regarding the mental depth they bring to the game (none).

List of similarities between L-Cancelling and Powershielding:

1. Always an optimal choice.
2. Result is always desirable.
3. Timing oriented.
4 All characters have access to these techniques.
5. Relatively safe when failed, but still punishable.
6. Prerequisite conditions that often rely on a reaction to an opponent, if not always.

You cannot treat regular shielding and Powershielding the same, because they are not. One choice is absolutely under all circumstances superior to the other. Not to Powershield would be the equivalent of not to L-Cancel. The only difference is that there is not a middle choice for L-Cancelling (Frankly it wouldn't even matter since L-Cancelling is so easy to execute as of now) but this is negligible because you always want the optimal choice anyway, therefore both of these techniques are arbitrary and they DO NOT add any mental depth to the game at all.

The only reason I'm mentioning this again, is because this has been the centralizing logic and basis of reasoning used to accuse L-Cancelling as having no purpose (Plain false) and how it should become automatic.

I'm trying to dispute this so passionately because I believe technical gameplay is just as important as mental gameplay in a fighting game. Both go hand in hand with one another, technical play does not serve mental play. Even if techniques add no further mental depth to a game, they are still important.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Because they are both entirely technical oriented decisions that are always optimal therefore are deemed arbitrary. The purpose of my comparison was to show how little or how insignificant the reasoning behind removing manual L-Cancelling is on this thread. It's not near substantial enough to warrant PMDT to even consider adding auto L-Cancelling as an option.

Put simply the comparison is to depict the similarities both L-Cancelling and Powershielding have with one another regarding the mental depth they bring to the game (none).

List of similarities between L-Cancelling and Powershielding:

1. Always an optimal choice.
2. Result is always desirable.
3. Timing oriented.
4 All characters have access to these techniques.
5. Relatively safe when failed, but still punishable.
6. Prerequisite conditions that often rely on a reaction to an opponent, if not always.

The difference:

PowerSheilding is required as a REACTION to an opponents decision. and is 4 frames (2 for reflect)
Lcancelling is an action taken by the attacker, and is 7 frames (iirc)

 

[KeyOfTruth]

The difference:

PowerSheilding is required as a REACTION to an opponents decision. and is 4 frames (2 for reflect)
Lcancelling is an action taken by the attacker, and is 7 frames (iirc)

Yes Powershielding is limited in this sense, but it doesn't change the fact that it's always an optimal choice and that it doesn't add any mental depth to the game.

The difference in difficulty of execution is irrelevant to the context of my comparison.

 

[GP&B]

Narpas covered the main points but:

It's not near substantial enough to warrant PMDT to even consider adding auto L-Cancelling as an option.

Mighty pretentious of you to think that's the case when that decision is not in anyone's hands except for the DT themselves. It is not your say on whether the evidence here is substantial or not.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Yes Powershielding is limited in this sense, but it doesn't change the fact that it's always an optimal choice and that it doesn't add any mental depth to the game.

The difference in difficulty of execution is irrelevant to the context of my comparison.

The fact that you are reacting to an opponent, and therefore can be baited into hitting shield is definitely a mental decision...

 

[KeyOfTruth]

Narpas covered the main points but:

Mighty pretentious of you to think that's the case when that decision is not in anyone's hands except for the DT themselves. It is not your say on whether the evidence here is substantial or not.

Fair enough, but to defend myself I've been trying to analyze L-Cancels significance from PMDT's point of view with the listed goals it's provided and such.

 

[Narpas_sword]

The last time this thread came about, someone from the pmdt said that they have no intention of changing how L cancelling works.

So their point of view is "We're not changing it".

 

[KeyOfTruth]

The fact that you are reacting to an opponent, and therefore can be baited into hitting shield is definitely a mental decision...

I'm not sure what you mean, how is this relevant? Please elaborate enough so people can fully understand your logic and if possible, your train of thought.

I have absolutely no idea how that is relevant to anything I've discussed.

 

[Narpas_sword]

wait really?

didn't think it was that obscure...


L canceling is a 'no brain' decision. - as the person throwing you the aerial, you KNOW when you have to l cancel, and you know that you should, i.e theres no reason not to.

Powersheilding, while similar in the fact that you'd always want to do it, is different in that you don't know WHEN to do it, because it has to be in reaction to your opponent.

 

[platologic]

Put simply the comparison is to depict the similarities both L-Cancelling and Powershielding have with one another regarding the mental depth they bring to the game (none).

You are completely missing the point. I don't care how many comparisons you make between L-canceling and powershielding. None of them matter because of one fundamental difference.

If you don't powershield, you might be at a slight disadvantage based on the matchup.
If you don't L-cancel, you are at a significant disadvantage in almost every single game.

It's not about the lack of depth. It's not about the difference between contested and uncontested tech skill. When discussing the effects of each technique on the overall success of a given player, powershielding and L-canceling are not in the same league, not by a long shot. That's the real issue.

 

[Foo]

And L-Cancelling is a reward for timing your reaction via a prior decision (indirectly influenced by an opponent's action) perfectly. The timing of L-Cancelling changes with many variables such as: height, fall speed, and hitlag. Mastering L-Cancelling is easier and thus should be removed? No. Each has their respective depth, but neither offer any mental depth, it's pure technical.

When you quoted me (before) I was talking about just L-canceling, not aerials. If you take out L-canceling, the depth behind aerials will be exactly the same. Also, dude, there is any depth to L-canceling. I'm done being totally unblunt. Here is what L-canceling is.

"When you do an aerial, mash the z button 2 or 3 times before you hit the ground or you will get wrecked because **** you."

Powershielding inherently has depth because any twitch interaction with your opponent is going to have depth no matter what. It is precisely timing an input to counter an opponents move that you predicted or reacted to where messing up leaves you worse off than had you not tried to powershield, but rewards you greatly for a successful read/reaction.

L-canceling is pressing more buttons than you need to just because. Nobody should EVER miss an l-cancel ever. If you are learning how to L-cancel, here's how you do it 100% consistently even if you are bad. Take out the spring from the shoulder button (MUCH easier on your finger) you don't use and bind it to grab (or just use z). After doing an aerial, mash it as fast as you feel like until you hit the ground or the lag is almost over and boom, l-cancel complete. You are now allowed to play the game. If I could go back and time and relearn my muscle memory, this is what I would do.

 

[un.dead]

Page 13 tho.. I'm guessing the rule here is post first, go back and read the earlier arguments later, huh?
Seriously though, when will this thread die? There's nothing new to be said here. I can't believe you guys are still arguing over this.

 

[KeyOfTruth]

If you take out L-canceling, the depth behind aerials will be exactly the same.

If you take out frame specific timing requirements for a Powershield the depth behind shielding will be exactly the same as well. Depth does not equal difficulty. Just because Powershielding is harder does not mean it possesses anymore depth than L-Cancelling, because it doesn't.

Powershielding inherently has depth because any twitch interaction with your opponent is going to have depth no matter what. It is precisely timing an input to counter an opponents move that you predicted or reacted to where messing up leaves you worse off than had you not tried to powershield, but rewards you greatly for a successful read/reaction.

Shielding in general and as a base mechanic is what has depth. Shielding introduces further interaction and reaction between players. Powershielding does not introduce any kind of depth that is not already accomplished from regular shielding. Addressing Powershielding specifically just as you are addressing L-Cancelling specifically, Powershielding is merely another arbitrarily difficult input added that raises the skill floor.

L-canceling is pressing more buttons than you need to just because.

Whether or not it's an extra button press or a specific timing, they can both be arbitrary requirements. In this case L-Cancelling and Powershielding respectively.

It's not about the lack of depth. It's not about the difference between contested and uncontested tech skill. When discussing the effects of each technique on the overall success of a given player, powershielding and L-canceling are not in the same league, not by a long shot. That's the real issue.

Would you mind explaining to me then how making L-Cancelling automatic would benefit this problem? If it's not an issue with lack of depth there should be no reason to remove manual L-Cancelling, even as an option.

Powersheilding, while similar in the fact that you'd always want to do it, is different in that you don't know WHEN to do it, because it has to be in reaction to your opponent.

I don't think this argument is 100% true. Yes your opponent can try his best to stay unpredictable, but for the most part you know when you NEED to Powershield. We all know the frame data, we all know the timing required to pull it off, therefore we know when we need to Powershield.

If your opponent throws a projectile at you for instance, it's no longer a guessing game as to if your going to need to shield or not. You evaluate the distance and speed to determine whether or not shielding is an appropriate choice. Powershielding specifically does not come into play until this has been decided THEN once all these variables become constants it's up to you, and you alone (Your opponent cannot change this outcome; not a reaction to your opponent.) to properly time it right so that you Powershield the projectile.

Powershielding is a self reaction to a previous decision made when you evaluated whether or not shielding would be an appropriate option.

 

[Narpas_sword]

You evaluate the distance and speed to determine whether or not shielding is an appropriate choice..

Exactly.

Even in the 'least thinking' scenario you could come up with, there's still decision making required.

 

[KeyOfTruth]

Exactly.

Even in the 'least thinking' scenario you could come up with, there's still decision making required.

Please read my entire reply thoroughly and don't take pieces out of context.

You evaluate the distance and speed to determine whether or not shielding is an appropriate choice. Powershielding specifically does not come into play until this has been decided THEN once all these variables become constants it's up to you, and you alone (Your opponent cannot change this outcome; not a reaction to your opponent.) to properly time it right so that you Powershield the projectile.

Read the bold that directly follows my statement you quoted.

There is no decision making regarding Powershielding. It is always optimal and always yields desirable results.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Please read my entire reply thoroughly and don't take pieces out of context.
.

I did.

You're still wrong.

 

[Foo]

If you take out frame specific timing requirements for a Powershield the depth behind shielding will be exactly the same as well. Depth does not equal difficulty. Just because Powershielding is harder does not mean it possesses anymore depth than L-Cancelling, because it doesn't.



Shielding in general and as a base mechanic is what has depth. Shielding introduces further interaction and reaction between players. Powershielding does not introduce any kind of depth that is not already accomplished from regular shielding. Addressing Powershielding specifically just as you are addressing L-Cancelling specifically, Powershielding is merely another arbitrarily difficult input added that raises the skill floor.



Whether or not it's an extra button press or a specific timing, they can both be arbitrary requirements. In this case L-Cancelling and Powershielding respectively.

I'm done with you, you have literally ignored the key point I've made in every single post and just keep asserting that it is artificial difficulty while ignoring that there is reaction and prediction involved which is exactly what makes something NOT artificial difficulty.

 

[Bleck]

please stop responding to keyoftruth

 

[KeyOfTruth]

I'm done with you, you have literally ignored the key point I've made in every single post and just keep asserting that it is artificial difficulty while ignoring that there is reaction and prediction involved which is exactly what makes something NOT artificial difficulty.

I haven't ignored your point at all. I don't know how to make my point any clearer that Powershielding does not add any mental depth. Shielding alone does this, the addition of Powershielding on top of the already existent regular shield does not add any more mental sophistication at all. Reaction and prediction would still be involved in shielding even if Powershielding were never invented. Read the entire post you just quoted, I can't explain it any better.

 

[Foo]

I haven't ignored your point at all. I don't know how to make my point any clearer that Powershielding does not add any mental depth. Shielding alone does this, the addition of Powershielding on top of the already existent regular shield does not add any more mental sophistication at all. Reaction and prediction would still be involved in shielding even if Powershielding were never invented. Read the entire post you just quoted, I can't explain it any better.

I can't make this any simpler. Regular shielding is predicting THAT you will get hit. Powershielding is predicting WHEN you will get hit. That is where the depth comes from. Have I made myself clear?

The other half, when it comes to moves that you can humanly react to, it tests your reaction speed, timing and decision making in a split second and that is three of the most key things fighting games can test. If you think that the players reaction, timing, and prediction (the three most important aspects of fighting games) skills are artificial difficulty, what exactly is the true difficulty? Character select?

In an attempt to make this even more simple.

Powershield on reaction- This tests:
- Reaction Speed
- Timing
- Twitch decision making

Powershield on prediction- This tests:
- Prediction (here is your mental depth)
- Timing
- Twitch decision making

L-canceling- This tests:
- Your ability to hit an extra button after doing an aerial.

 

[KeyOfTruth]

I can't make this any simpler. Regular shielding is predicting THAT you will get hit. Powershielding is predicting WHEN you will get hit. That is where the depth comes from. Have I made myself clear?

Well the first part makes sense, the second part of your statement however has an error. If you can already predict that you will get hit, that's it; there is no more prediction involved. I'm not sure why you think there is prediction involved in pure timing. Projectiles are not unpredictable like players, they cannot change in nature. They are not mutable, they will always act the same: Speed, distance, size, damage, everything.

While Powershielding is more difficult than L-Cancelling it's still always an optimal choice and always yields a desirable result. (I'll repeat this as many times as it takes) Just as L-Cancelling's extra button press is arbitrary, so is the specific timing that Powershielding demands. It's pure tech skill that adds absolutely no mental depth to the game. I repeat, Powershielding does not add any mental depth to the game that regular shielding does not already offer. The specific timing Powershielding calls for beyond the prediction already present with regular shielding only adds more artificial difficulty, as in pure technical difficulty for the sake of being difficult.

 

[Narpas_sword]

All right bro, we get it. let it die and go work on being able to use tilts.

 

[GP&B]

You can't say you haven't ignored his point and then continue to do so. I'm sorry but you've been consistently overlooking the point he's been explicitly laying out for you. There's no reason to think anything fruitful can come out of this conversation when you're desperately still trying to make this comparison work.

 

[Foo]

Well the first part makes sense, the second part of your statement however has an error. If you can already predict that you will get hit, that's it; there is no more prediction involved. I'm not sure why you think there is prediction involved in pure timing. Projectiles are not unpredictable like players, they cannot change in nature. The are not mutable, they will always act the same: Speed, distance, size, damage, everything.

While Powershielding is more difficult than L-Cancelling it's still always an optimal choice and always yields a desirable result. (I'll repeat this as many times as it takes) Just as L-Cancelling's extra button press is arbitrary, so is the specific timing that Powershielding demands. It's pure tech skill that adds absolutely no mental depth to the game. I repeat, Powershielding does not add any mental depth to the game that regular shielding does not already offer. The specific timing Powershielding calls for beyond the prediction already present with regular shielding only adds more artificial difficulty, as in pure technical difficulty for the sake of being difficult.

KSDJFBKSDJBFKSJDBFKSJDFBKSDJBFKSJDJBFSKJBFKSJDJFBKSDJFBKSDJ GBKSDJ

THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF POWERSHIELDING:

POWERSHIELDING WHEN YOU HAVE TIME TO REACT

POWERSHEILDING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO REACT.

IN THE LATTER, YOU HAVE TO PREDICT WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO GET HIT. PLEASE READ MY POSTS HOLY !@#$.

You keep saying "it adds no mental depth" over and over and over and over and you keep ignoring the part where I explain why it does. The entire game isn't one player sitting in a corner spamming samus missiles. 90% of moves thrown out in competitive play (while both players are in neutral) come out so quickly you cannot react to them. Let's say there is a mario in front of you and is most likely about to hit you.

Is he going to jab you? (frame 2)
Fsmash? (frame 12)
Down-tilt? (frame 5)
Nair? (frame 7)
Retreating back air? (frame 11)
D-smash? (frame 3)
Grab? (frame 7, can't be shielded)

Any of these could come, and none of them can be reacted to. Let's say you think he's going to do a retreating bair and want to powershield it, so you time your shield and guessed correctly! Now you can instantly shield drop, dash, and whack him out of the air while he's in lag from bair. Now, let's say you guessed wrong. You delayed your shield to powershield bair, but it turns out he decided to downsmash you and you died.

Well, let's say you decide he's going to downsmash, so you throw your shield up as quickly as possible. If you guess right, you punish his downsmash. If you guess wrong, a retreating aerial will let him safely pressure your shield with the potential threat of b-reversing a fireball right back at you making you second guess dropping your guard. You didn't get hit, but you are now at disadvantage.

So, for mario, the safe play is to do a retreating aerial, but if he takes a risk with a dsmash, he can net a kill. The safe play for you is to try and PS the downsmash, but it will likely put in slight disavantage. If you take a risk and try to PS something else, you could die, but if you are right, you get a punish. Oh, but he could also grab you, so maybe you should just spotdodge?

That's a lot of decision making to go through in a few frames, isn't it? If you ignore my point again, I'm done replying. I am completely out of new ways to explain something simple.

 

[Bleck]

please stop responding to keyoftruth

 

[Rawkobo]

please stop responding to keyoftruth

^this immensely...

i messed up with my own logic and i can tell you key's is no better than whatever i was trying to make earlier.

powershielding is attached to a choice you make mentally, shielding, which is what foo has been trying to explain reasonably for his past like 5-6 posts. while it's technically optimal, it's also reflex-based and drawn on matchups, which actually makes it a skill worth practicing, similar to that of wavedashing out of shield and to set up things like pivot f-smashes or w/e. l-cancelling is nothing like that whatsoever.

 

[KeyOfTruth]

You keep saying "it adds no mental depth" over and over and over and over and you keep ignoring the part where I explain why it does.

Okay I will try to make myself as perfectly clear as possible until you understand me. When I say Powershielding adds no mental depth I mean exactly that, it adds no mental depth. Keyword: Adds. As in introducing something into the game that is not already present, in this case regular shielding. Removing Powershielding from Project M would result in no lost mental depth whatsoever, because regular shielding still holds that depth and has already introduced that kind of prediction into the Smash series. So what does Powershielding exactly add to the already existent option that is regular shielding? What is the one difference that separates whether you Powershield or regular shield? That one difference is timing. Powershielding requires a specific timing, and this is an arbitrary requirement because all it does is raise the skill floor period. The specific timing doesn't limit when and what you can Powershield; the only limit is human error, the same limitation L-Cancelling has.

When I refer to Powershielding I am really referring to the specific timing requirement, because that is the only difference separating it from regular shielding. So when I say Powershielding is arbitrary I am saying the specific timing required is arbitrary. It is artificial difficulty to raise the skill floor. Powershielding is a purely technical feat. All the mental depth and predictive factors would still exist if Powershielding were removed or even made automatic, because regular shielding has already introduced these.

So what I'm truly comparing in literal form is:

Required button press (L-Cancel)

VS.

Required timing (Powershielding)


Both are arbitrary requirements in terms of their mental value. Just because Powershielding relies on an opponents action doesn't mean it's not arbitrary, it is still always the superior choice over regular shielding and the only thing limiting that is human error. If regular shielding was not an option in some circumstances (such as making unblockable attacks that require you to Powershield to protect yourself) and if Powershielding didn't always yield a more desirable outcome than regular shielding (Create an instance where regular shielding works better than Powershielding, or limit the number of Powershields you can perform in a single match) Powershielding would no longer be an arbitrary timing requirement and would actually add mental depth to the game.

 

[Narpas_sword]

please stop responding to keyoftruth

This.


So much this.

 

[platologic]

Would the auto L-canceling option work better as an add-on rather than as a menu option? I'm thinking that an add-on would be preferable.

From a usability standpoint, I assume that most players will stick to one setting or another and not switch between the two very often. Bundle it with the official distribution, leave it off by default, and it's there for anyone who wants it. TOs can simply delete it.

From a development standpoint, it should be easier all around. No need for an extra menu option and no need for a boolean switch to check if the option is enabled.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

I have said this for a while and I say this as someone that regularly L cancels, likes Melee/PM and plays various fighting games. I'm not new to tech and tech much harder than L cancelling at that.

Because L canceling is something there is no reason ever not to do, it should in fact be automatic. It's an artificial barrier, it adds no depth to the game.

It's not like wavedashing that adds another option to utilize and account for(key word: option) in situations. This does add depth to the game for this reason. It's situationally good, makes the footsy game more interesting and allows for a lot of creativity when combined with other ledge options, wavelanding on platforms etc. Wavedashing has true merit.

So why is L-cancelling in the game? It's already been said. "Because Melee". Things that make no sense from a balance or logic perspective are kept in PM because of Melee.

Lastly, assume Melee 2 was released tomorrow. Now every time before you initiate a dash you need to do half circle forward X2, if your input is not perfect it won't come out. So now it's more technical than the original Melee by adding another artificial tech barrier. Does that automatically make it a better more in depth game? Even Melee heads would agree that would be stupid game design and adds nothing of value.

 

[Ningildo]

You...YOU FOOL!

All arguments and opinions were already stated, people stopped going for each other's throat and, most importantly, the thread was going to the dreaded second page that no one ever goes to (cause it smells) and would let people go do something productive instead of offering an opinion on a topic saturated with those and provide no useful insight whatsoever (cause it's already been said in 10 other threads several times).

Please let the thread die. It won't be missed.

 

[Strong Badam]

You...YOU FOOL!

All arguments and opinions were already stated, people stopped going for each other's throat and, most importantly, the thread was going to the dreaded second page that no one ever goes to (cause it smells) and would let people go do something productive instead of offering an opinion on a topic saturated with those and provide no useful insight whatsoever (cause it's already been said in 10 other threads several times).

Please let the thread die. It won't be missed.

Okay.