Why is wolf high tier?

[MetallicFalcon]

Ive been looking around this forum trying to find some interesting things about wolf so i can improve my wolf game. And i havent found anything that i think is very impressive. Why is wolf high tier?

 

[ThatGuy]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Well, according to the character rankings, his tournament representation shows that he potentially ranks higher than where he is now...

Second of all, he's at the bottom of high. That's borderline mid. You should probably look at it in reverse and see why other characters are ranked below Wolf.

 

[MetallicFalcon]

Yeah, i understand that. but what i was really trying to ask was what puts him where he is. does he have any good AT's or something like everybody else above him?

 

[Ishiey]

AT's

This is the brawl forums, we dare not speak of such things.

I'd say bair, lives long enough, great punishing, good projectile, and fast air speed contributed to his placement on the first list.

 

[Vorguen]

You forgot to mention the bl4st0r twice!!!11!!1!!1!!!!!1!!!!!

 

[DAGanmanert]

Hes Badass AND a decent character.
/Thread.

 

[ArcPoint]

He shouldn't be high tier.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think he's mid tier.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I think hes medium high. He has a lot of good things about him but some glaring weaknesses. Recovery is one plus falco Dedede and MK all own him.

 

[JCav]

He shouldn't be high tier.

hes smart, listen to him



in my simple minded opinion, dont use him in a tournament.


if lower tier tournaments existed...


WoOf4GoDtIeR

 

[castorpollux]

reading this thread makes me realize why wolf's metagame is progressing so much slower than other characters


wolf is a good character guys. have faith and keep at it

btw his recovery is better than a lot of characters. Marth's recovery sucks.

 

[ArcPoint]

Your opinion isn't simple minded D= It's valid.

But yeah, you really can't go Wolf the entire tournament and expect to win it, unless there aren't any DDDs... Falco is debatable, you can just stay near the edge and he won't be able to 0-death CG you.

I'd have to disagree that his recovery isn't bad. It's bad, no doubt about it. It's just that you can overcome it. And I do have faith that Wolf is a decent character, he's not high/top tier material, and will be limited as such, but, as Lucien put it "He's a good overall character". Though, I'm losing faith as a go in-depth into some of the top tier characters...

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I hate falco and dedede. They stinkz and their lame z-spammers. Especially the ones that just counterpick him to try to cheap us out.

 

[xoxokev]

For Falco's CG, I think it would be better to give yourself space to be chained... once you reach ~30% you can't be chained anymore, so the more % you have, the harder it is for Falco to CG -> spike you... so actually, staying near the edge would do more harm than help

 

[ArcPoint]

Not really =/ If he grabs you near the edge (With your back towards the edge) then all he can do is Dthrow -> Spike, you recovery, maybe take some more damage, take 10 more percent, and then you can't be chaingrabbed. Congratz, you just avoided the spike.

 

[colored blind]

A Falco who can pivot grab would make any grab near the edge at low percents dangerous.

Wolf's in high tier because he competes pretty well with most characters in his tier and lower; some in the upper tiers just destroy him, though. He gets ***** by MK and D3, and Falco can be a really tough matchup. G&W and ROB are debatable, but definitely not as bad as the others. No one else below him really deserves to be placed above him except maybe Olimar, TL, and maybe a Sheik/Zelda entry. He's not spectacular, but he can compete pretty well with a good amount of characters.

I think he's fine where he is; borderline high/mid.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Because everybody knows that Sheik raeps Fox and Wolf. Falco too, but he can **** back. That's what Sheik's vB is for.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Not really =/ If he grabs you near the edge (With your back towards the edge) then all he can do is Dthrow -> Spike, you recovery, maybe take some more damage, take 10 more percent, and then you can't be chaingrabbed. Congratz, you just avoided the spike.

A pro falco would do that super dash grab pivot thingy or w/e its called to go around you and then do it again back towards the ledge so you die.

 

[teekay]

He has a fantastic pressure game due to his air speed and range. If you check out the best Wolf players you will notice they all have one thing in common, which is that bair is their most commonly used move. This is because it is one of the best regular aerials in the game. It has tons of range, no lag, and a big hitbox. Wolf can use this move as a central aspect of his game to pressure an opponent in a very safe way. If used properly it's extremely difficult to punish.

This is in combination with good range on other fast attacks. His fair is a good move as well as it can be executed with no lag and it actually has better range than it appears to as well. His ability to execute lagless aerials in any direction at any time is very effective. Along with this he has a super nice projectile which adds to his ability to keep the pressure on.

He's not that easy to kill despite his mediocre recovery, partially because he is quite heavy, and partially because he has MANY ways to mix up his return method, more than most characters in fact. We often forget that this is Brawl and what seems like bad recovery is actually just "not Metaknight, Snake, DDD, and GnW" recovery. Scarring, instantly appearing on the ledge, illusion cancel, and all the weird things he can do by bouncing off the edge can actually make him pretty difficult to edge guard.

He has an awesome AAA combo. Although he has trouble killing, he has some ways around this. Once the opponent's % is high enough, any time Wolf gets a grab in he can refresh his kill moves because his pummel is so fast. This is something I don't think most players are taking advantage of enough. He has an ok spike to work with as well. His reflector is a fast, high priority defensive move that gives him a really nice way out of a lot of high-pressure scenarios. His fsmash is a terrific punisher due to its incredible range, and the simple fact that he has it will make a wise opponent behave much more conservatively than they otherwise would.

I don't know if Wolf will stay high tier but I think he will at least stay high mid. He's a really good character with a lot of strong attributes. I sincerely believe that if he didn't have such hard time getting kills, he'd be staying high tier and moving up. As it stands I still think there is an enormous amount of potential left untapped for him.

The reason why Wolf players tend to get discouraged is because he has so many bad matchups among the top tier, which sucks for us, but it doesn't change the fact that Wolf has a lot of awesome tools at his disposal and will always be a very dangerous character.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Wolf doesnt have that much trouble killing if you save your D-smash.

 

[teekay]

One reliable kill move isn't enough. Anyone who knows the matchup will know that's your one good way to kill, and thus it is very predictable.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf is high tier, mofos <_<

1.) His bair beats an astonishing number of moves including all of Marths aerials and G&Ws turtle. Just learn2space
2.) His mobility makes it impossible to WoP him, since he can just move out of the range -> bair his opponents
3.) Atm he has 3 hard counters but only Sheik is a real soft counter
4.) Fsmash is easily one of the best punishers in the game
5.) He lives like forever
6.) He can play anyway you like: gay campy, smart defense or hardcore pressure
7.) All his taunts are ****

His high tier position is justified.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I think Wolf is potentially better than some characters currently listed above him. I talso think Olimar, Peach, ZSS, and Sheik/Zelda are better than him.

 

[JCav]

according to ArcPointe, only the first hit of pummel refreshes your moves

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Wolf is potentially better than some characters currently listed above him. I talso think Olimar, Peach, ZSS, and Sheik/Zelda are better than him.

Olimar perhaps, Zamus maybe but Peach, Zelda? No U!

Although the tier list os still a mess of course.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I think he is decent well rounded character with a couple big weaknesses but thats about it. After the recovery and bad matchups with those annoying chaingrabbers and MK its mostly strengths for wolf.

I also think zero suit samus will be moving up.

 

[MetallicFalcon]

I think that wolf is good, but not someone to get all excited about. he's just kinda average to me.

ill just keep using him anyway cause i love to get off lucky dair spikes every now and then.

Oh, and just a quick question. would RARing help my wolf out? i never really RAR that much, thats why im asking.

 

[JCav]

Oh, and just a quick question. would RARing help my wolf out? i never really RAR that much, thats why im asking.

yeah, back air is your best move

 

[ArcPoint]

A pro falco would do that super dash grab pivot thingy or w/e its called to go around you and then do it again back towards the ledge so you die.

If you're at the edge, and falco grabs you, Dthrow will send you off stage. Tell me please, how can you pivot grab someone off stage?

Oh, and Gheb, Peach might move up, do you have any idea how unpunishable Fair is?

And @ Teekay, nice job nice job. Just a note, Wolf really isn't all that heavy, sure, he's heavier than the rest of the spacies, he's heavier than the majority of the cast, but I still wouldn't put it as "quite heavy". Wolf does indeed have an awesome pressure game, however, the blaster does not help his pressure game at all, solely because it's too slow to help with pressure. But Bair and Fair are great pressuring moves, and Fsmash is a really good punisher. But blaster is good for spacing =D

His recovery... meh, if you DI well, then you shouldn't be gimped. All those wonderful options don't really mean a whole lot, honestly. More options doesn't mean effective.

The pummel doesn't do anything to refresh moves, well, it doesn't do much. Go into versus mode, Dsmash 10 times, check the damage, should be at about 6% per Dsmash, and then do a grab then do 20% worth of grab pummels, release them without throwing. Kill the character with the damage, and then DSmash then, check out how much damage it does.

To clear up some things about the shine: It is NOT fast, it does NOT have great priority. Well spaced aerials will go THROUGH the shine, while the shine won't hit them. Then all they have to do is punish the lag, or they could just bait the shine....

Only thing he has going for him right now is an excellent pressure game, and a good Dthrow tech chase. Killing is an ABSOLUTE pain once you start to go against better players.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

zomg

Wolf really needs some good players. Badly -______-

 

[Emblem Lord]

No ****ing way Zelda and Sheik are better then Wolf.

 

[Ishiey]

Shine will only get beat by an aerial if its disjointed or something, the hitbox comes out before wolf's invincibility wears off... right?

Pummels refresh one move for each pummel if it's slow, but if it's quick (like wolf's), you can only use them to refresh once per grab. Just to clear that up.

Olimar, ZSS, and Peach should all probably move up IMO, Zelda/Sheik might move up but not by much.

 

[ArcPoint]

Shiek against Wolf is a bad matchup... but better THAN wolf overall?

 

[Panix]

I tried to justify why wolf is in the "high" tier.
But, I couldn't think of much execpt laser, bair, and Dsmash.

 

[teekay]

And @ Teekay, nice job nice job. Just a note, Wolf really isn't all that heavy, sure, he's heavier than the rest of the spacies, he's heavier than the majority of the cast, but I still wouldn't put it as "quite heavy". Wolf does indeed have an awesome pressure game, however, the blaster does not help his pressure game at all, solely because it's too slow to help with pressure. But Bair and Fair are great pressuring moves, and Fsmash is a really good punisher. But blaster is good for spacing =D

His recovery... meh, if you DI well, then you shouldn't be gimped. All those wonderful options don't really mean a whole lot, honestly. More options doesn't mean effective.

The pummel doesn't do anything to refresh moves, well, it doesn't do much. Go into versus mode, Dsmash 10 times, check the damage, should be at about 6% per Dsmash, and then do a grab then do 20% worth of grab pummels, release them without throwing. Kill the character with the damage, and then DSmash then, check out how much damage it does.

To clear up some things about the shine: It is NOT fast, it does NOT have great priority. Well spaced aerials will go THROUGH the shine, while the shine won't hit them. Then all they have to do is punish the lag, or they could just bait the shine....

The pummel thing I am probably wrong about. I was under the impression it did work for refreshes, but this sounds legit. The rest of this I disagree with you about. When it comes to returning to the stage, I think more options does mean more effective. Say you're hanging on the ledge and your opponent is trying to hit you when you get back on. As Wolf, the option to scar through the stage is one more thing they have to try to account for and that makes it harder to predict where you're going to end up. Or, off the stage, you could go for the ledge, illusion over them, or illusion CANCEL over them which changes the distance and can be done much higher up when they're not expecting it, etc. Unpredictability is a big help when trying to return to the stage.

I think blaster absolutely does help pressure. An opponent who manages to pull out of your close range pressure then still has the blaster to worry about. It's true that you cannot follow up as quickly as would be ideal (it's definitely not the pressure move Falco's blaster is, that's clear) but it's good for throwing off their momentum and keeping them in range.

Shine is fast and has great priority! There are invincibility frames on it so if it is timed properly it gets beat by basically nothing.

Or so's my story, anyway.

 

[ArcPoint]

The point I'm trying to make is that more options doesn't always mean good options. Not many of his options can be put to good use, an illusion being canceled over them is certainly unexpected, but it's punishable =/ Same with regular side B. Though I'll admit scarring is a plus to Wolf's ledgegame.

Blaster... can help pressure from afar I suppose, but not up close where Bair and Fair do their magic. It's more about space control and spacing than pressuring in my opinion. One more thing to worry about doesn't necessarily mean pressure.

Shine... invincibility wears off before the hitbox comes out, A properly timed attack can go through it. But hey, what're the odds of that? ^_^

On an unrelated note: Wolf's Bair collides with MK's Fair, it might beat it, I don't know the exact timing. But if you tried to Bair and you got hit by Mk's Fair, you either started it too early, or started it too late.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

OMG!!!

wolfs foot for god tier.

 

[Turbo Ether]

No ****ing way Zelda and Sheik are better then Wolf.

Shiek against Wolf is a bad matchup... but better THAN wolf overall?

Only as Zelda+Shiek, not separately. As one character, they are potentially high tier imo. They do better against top tier than Wolf does. I think Wolf is potentially better than Pikachu and and Pit. Maybe Wario too, due to grab release.

 

[colored blind]

Zelda/Sheik together can be really good; together they have very few bad matchups. I think only G&W and MK wreck them together. Wolf has a bunch more than that. Of course, that only works for the duo. And it's still really debatable as to whether or no Sheik/Zelda would break high tier at all.

The pummel thing works with most characters; just not ridiculously fast ones like Wolf's and Samus'. I believe if you wait a moment between each pummel (about the average speed of other pummels), it'll help refresh, but I'm not completely sure.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So...wait..how are they better?

Clearly they are a bit better then alone, but..people act like transform is instant when in reality it takes quite a bit of time and you give up any positional or situational advantage you may have created for yourself.

Giving up my positioning just for some better kill moves or for more mobility doesn't sound like a good trade.