Why is spamming a thing

[Silask20]

I dont know why spamming projectiles is a thing in this game. Every projectile should have limitations on how often or how much it can be used. Yes there is counters to this play but most players dont have the time to learn how to deal with this, we aren’t all tourny ready players who know how to DI at the perfect frame nor have we all become masters of parrying.

Its just ridiculous i keep losing to samus players who do nothing but spam projectiles then run from one side of the map to the other and when u get close u get grabbed and combo’d then rinse and repeat and these losers are willing to do this for 10 mins straight if it means winning.

Im now in 3 and a half hour bans because i refuse to give spammers a sliver of gsp. I will leave every match i encounter a spammer because it shouldnt be viable.

Edit: and if youre wondering my idea for a fix for guns/blaster type projectiles add a bar next to the character damage% called “overheat” the more u use it in a short period the more the bar fills. If u hit max overheat u need to wait for the bar to go completely down before using again.

For non guns the bar would be “exhaustion” you eventually get exhausted and it has the same rules

Example: everytime wolf uses his blaster it fills 10% overheat bar. Every second the bar goes down 1%. This prevents spamming. If u hit max overheat u must now wait the entire 100 seconds before using again (your own fault for spamming)

Samus rockets: 8% overheat, fully charged blast 20% overheat.

Ness pk fire: 5% exhaustion, pk lightning 3%, whatever Nuetral B is 15%.

 

[Azcorban]

I don't think a whole new "exhaust"-system is the right choice here.

It would help a whole damn lot if we take an existing mechanic - staling - and amplify it for projectiles:

Normally, if a move connects, the next use gets lowered knockback and damage. This counts in the last 10 moves hit and stacks for each move.
Now, for projectiles, I see two relatively easy ways out:
1. Give them double staling. If you hit a projectile, you get 2 stacks of staling instead of one.
2. Amplify the staling debuff for projectiles. Their damage and knockback get reduced stronger for each use.

 

[link2702]

No.

Yes it is frustrating sometimes, especially when you main a character that struggles against projectiles *coughganoncough* but neutering other characters projectiles in the way you suggest not only ruins those characters in their ability to zone out opponents (which is entirely what they’re based on, it’s why these characters are often mediocre in other areas, it’s because their projectile games are intentionally strong, yes...intentionally) but it’s also a very scrub mentality and change.

Instead of you, the player, trying to find a counter strategy(or just accepting that the character you use is directly countered by projectile zoners and choosing a different one for these matchups that counters them), you’d rather neuter the zoners instead of putting the effort in against them.

Not every character needs to be a combo crazed rushdown, but posts like your own always seem to hint towards that, in which case I’m afraid you probably won’t find a fighting game you like, since it quickly becomes dull and repetitive which is why none are like that.

Could some projectiles be toned down? Of course, but they should never be changed to where they actively punish the player using them.

As for “spam” in general regardless of whether it’s a projectile or not, for one you shouldn’t be getting hit since it’s predictable, but two, there’s already a system in place against that, called stale moves. Use a move too much and it gradually gets weaker knockback and damage. For some moves this doesn’t matter much(maybe even beneficial as it can lead into combos) for others like smashes, it ensures that spamming these would just ensure you’re even less a threat to a decent opponent, as not only are you leaving yourself wide open with a punishable move, but on the off chance it does hit, because you’ve used it so many times in succession, it’s unlikely to be much of a punishment on the opponent.

This system works just fine.

 

[Sean²]

If you want to beat projectiles and still have fun, play a character that counters projectiles. E.g. reflector/absorb mechanic. Samus is probably running from you/zoning you out because Bowser is a terror at close range and you'd mess her up if she tried to box with you. I don't blame the player nor the character here.

Same reason the most viable way of beating Little Mac is to run away and wait for him to mess up. Try to throw hands with him and he'll win - every single time. Is it fun to camp him out? Not really. Not my fault Nintendo made a poorly designed character.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily disagree with you completely. Projectile counterplay in Ultimate is extremely boring and sometimes makes me wish the entire zoner archetype didn't exist. Another universal projectile nerf would absolutely make my day. But it is what it is - you have to make the most out of the fun matchups to make it continue to be worth playing.

 

[Silask20]

If you want to beat projectiles and still have fun, play a character that counters projectiles. E.g. reflector/absorb mechanic. Samus is probably running from you/zoning you out because Bowser is a terror at close range and you'd mess her up if she tried to box with you. I don't blame the player nor the character here.

Same reason the most viable way of beating Little Mac is to run away and wait for him to mess up. Try to throw hands with him and he'll win - every single time. Is it fun to camp him out? Not really. Not my fault Nintendo made a poorly designed character.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily disagree with you completely. Projectile counterplay in Ultimate is extremely boring and sometimes makes me wish the entire zoner archetype didn't exist. Another universal projectile nerf would absolutely make my day. But it is what it is - you have to make the most out of the fun matchups to make it continue to be worth playing.

I do try to enjoy this game but when it comes to spammers well makes me wanna return it.

Banned for a total of 10.5 hours today because out of 5 matches i actually played only 2 were fair and 3 were against spammers. I hope the devs know that to someone who looks for fair fights like me though, these bans are worth every minute that i didnt spend pulling my hair out against some b mashing 12 year old.

 

[Khao]

I do try to enjoy this game but when it comes to spammers well makes me wanna return it.

Banned for a total of 10.5 hours today because out of 5 matches i actually played only 2 were fair and 3 were against spammers. I hope the devs know that to someone who looks for fair fights like me though, these bans are worth every minute that i didnt spend pulling my hair out against some b mashing 12 year old.

If you're consistently quitting because you expect everyone to play on your terms, you deserve to be banned. I'm sorry, but you're the one refusing to participate in fair matches. Throwing projectiles are simply the way some characters are designed to work. If you can't find a way approach, there's literally no freaking reason for a projectile-centric character to stop throwing projectiles.

Learn to adapt. If you're the better player, you'll win.

Alternatively, if you claim not to have time to be a competitive player, maybe don't play competitively?

 

[THE SLOTH]

I understand your grief, but quitting matches isn't the answer. As obnoxious as it may be, you aren't going to get any better and learn the match ups if you quit rather than tough it out. I don't know enough about Bowser personally to give enough input on it, but I'd go to the Bowser character forms and ask around about how to better deal with projectile characters as him, or look to see if anybody's already posted a thread asking the same thing. Additionally, here's a good video about dealing with camping that can hopefully help you deal with these players better. Just remember, don't get tilted. Keep a level head, and instead of quitting because the other player isn't "playing fair", stay in the game, stay focused, and try to find patterns to get around it. Dealing with this kind of playstyle comes with practice and preservation.

 

[link2702]

What you deem “fair” and what actual reality is are two very different things.

D/cing constantly because you’re too lazy to adapt and learn the matchups, no matter how boring, you deserve those lengthy bans.

If you’re this tilted by being camped by projectiles, either pick a different character who can counter them, or put the controller down and simply never play another fighting game, because it’s pretty clear this genre isn’t for you.

 

[Silask20]

I understand your grief, but quitting matches isn't the answer. As obnoxious as it may be, you aren't going to get any better and learn the match ups if you quit rather than tough it out. I don't know enough about Bowser personally to give enough input on it, but I'd go to the Bowser character forms and ask around about how to better deal with projectile characters as him, or look to see if anybody's already posted a thread asking the same thing. Additionally, here's a good video about dealing with camping that can hopefully help you deal with these players better. Just remember, don't get tilted. Keep a level head, and instead of quitting because the other player isn't "playing fair", stay in the game, stay focused, and try to find patterns to get around it. Dealing with this kind of playstyle comes with practice and preservation.

This is helpful actually, im well into elite smash with bowser and have nothing else to prove with him competitive wise he is my local tourny character of choice. He has great answers for dealing with spammers. Im trying to play other characters and i prefer heavies. Not all have answers for spammers/ ganon suffers the worse. Next is DK.

However that video proves the main problem with spam pairings. I as the approacher have to think and work three times harder than my opponent in order to achieve victory. Their easy mode playstyle that consist of 2-3 repeated actions makes it a long and boring match which they ultimately could be laying down with a bag of potatoe chips on their stomach while giving me an equally hard time that im giving them in 100% focus mode because i have to dodge and weave and predict all their spam-able nonsense.

And @everyone else, im just tired of having to deal with this so often as is quite a bit of the smash community. And i will continue to eat my bans any given time i see a spamus running to the edge of the map spamming rockets, grab, forward air and nuetral B. Im not going to spend 10 minutes chasing them around while they put in minimal effort and rack up damage. That type of play is boring, cheap and braindead. Again, worth every minute. The bans do not bother me.

 

[meleebrawler]

This is helpful actually, im well into elite smash with bowser and have nothing else to prove with him competitive wise he is my local tourny character of choice. He has great answers for dealing with spammers. Im trying to play other characters and i prefer heavies. Not all have answers for spammers/ ganon suffers the worse. Next is DK.

However that video proves the main problem with spam pairings. I as the approacher have to think and work three times harder than my opponent in order to achieve victory. Their easy mode playstyle that consist of 2-3 repeated actions makes it a long and boring match which they ultimately could be laying down with a bag of potatoe chips on their stomach while giving me an equally hard time that im giving them in 100% focus mode because i have to dodge and weave and predict all their spam-able nonsense.

And @everyone else, im just tired of having to deal with this so often as is quite a bit of the smash community. And i will continue to eat my bans any given time i see a spamus running to the edge of the map spamming rockets, grab, forward air and nuetral B. Again, worth every minute. The bans do not bother me.

If they're able to shut their brains off to beat you like you describe, you're probably not putting in much of it yourself to begin with. You might be "laser-focused" on something, but it sure sounds like it isn't about winning. More like sheer frustration and determination to end the match you don't like in any way possible, whether it be charging face-first into their fire to minimize the time fighting one way or the other, or just quitting.

When zoners play against people who know what they're doing, they have to constantly mind the opponent's position and potential actions so that they don't leave themselves open firing a projectile at the wrong time, among other things. Can't count the number of times I've eaten a punish as (Dark) Samus for firing an ill-advised Super Missile at a jumping opponent.

Probably shouldn't play multiplayer shooter games either, if you don't want to be sniped from afar by people in strong vantage positions instead of engaging in "honourable" firefights.

 

[THE SLOTH]

This is helpful actually, im well into elite smash with bowser and have nothing else to prove with him competitive wise he is my local tourny character of choice. He has great answers for dealing with spammers. Im trying to play other characters and i prefer heavies. Not all have answers for spammers/ ganon suffers the worse. Next is DK.

However that video proves the main problem with spam pairings. I as the approacher have to think and work three times harder than my opponent in order to achieve victory. Their easy mode playstyle that consist of 2-3 repeated actions makes it a long and boring match which they ultimately could be laying down with a bag of potatoe chips on their stomach while giving me an equally hard time that im giving them in 100% focus mode because i have to dodge and weave and predict all their spam-able nonsense.

And @everyone else, im just tired of having to deal with this so often as is quite a bit of the smash community. And i will continue to eat my bans any given time i see a spamus running to the edge of the map spamming rockets, grab, forward air and nuetral B. Im not going to spend 10 minutes chasing them around while they put in minimal effort and rack up damage. That type of play is boring, cheap and braindead. Again, worth every minute. The bans do not bother me.

I think you might be looking at this wrong. A campy playstyle isn’t easier, and there’s still a need to be focused and involved with the match. While they can wall you out, you have to consider; there’s a reason they’re trying to keep you away. They have less close-combat options, and since you’re playing as Bowser, a lot of them die a lot faster than you will within melee range.

I’d reccomend, when you get the chance, to pick up one of these “braindead” characters and try and get them to Elite Smash, or at least borderline (around 5.4 mil GSP). Play some matches against other heavies with them, if the chance presents itself. If these characters are essentially an easy mode, getting them there should take no effort, right? Just press buttons and win. Do this with multiple characters to prove your point, if need be.

This isn’t a healthy mindset if you want to improve and continue to enjoy the game. If nothing else, enough repeat offenses of quitting mid-match will get you banned from Quickplay, if I’m not mistaken. And if you play Ultimate mostly for the online, that’s $60 down the drain, plus whatever you paid for Nintendo Online and any DLC you bought.

 

[Silask20]

I think you might be looking at this wrong. A campy playstyle isn’t easier, and there’s still a need to be focused and involved with the match. While they can wall you out, you have to consider; there’s a reason they’re trying to keep you away. They have less close-combat options, and since you’re playing as Bowser, a lot of them die a lot faster than you will within melee range.

I’d reccomend, when you get the chance, to pick up one of these “braindead” characters and try and get them to Elite Smash, or at least borderline (around 5.4 mil GSP). Play some matches against other heavies with them, if the chance presents itself. If these characters are essentially an easy mode, getting them there should take no effort, right? Just press buttons and win. Do this with multiple characters to prove your point, if need be.

This isn’t a healthy mindset if you want to improve and continue to enjoy the game. If nothing else, enough repeat offenses of quitting mid-match will get you banned from Quickplay, if I’m not mistaken. And if you play Ultimate mostly for the online, that’s $60 down the drain, plus whatever you paid for Nintendo Online and any DLC you bought.

Oh to this i did make a point to my friend. I took krool, did nothing but run from one side of the map to the other, spamming projectiles and cheesing. Only using melee based attacks to force distance or a finishing blow. I literally was sinking into my couch cushions in comfort as i sky rocketed from 2.4m gsp to 5.1m gsp i believe it was or 5.2. And i did meet some quality players along the way who were just at to much of a disadvantage, even a very good bowser who honestly was doing everything right, (but as a bowser main he didnt really stand a chance) as i spammed him to death. A couple players ( a cloud and a lucina) even jumped off the map to end the round early (cant blame them)

It took blood sweat and tears to get bowser to 5.2 my first time. I did it with ease by spamming as krool. It took a grand total of like 2 hours, i believe 10 victories and like 2 or 3 losses. I only stopped because i couldnt stomach to do it anymore and quite frankly i dont want friends to come over and see me elite smash with krool yet i only know how to use 30% of his arsenal. Its ridiculous.

If they're able to shut their brains off to beat you like you describe, you're probably not putting in much of it yourself to begin with. You might be "laser-focused" on something, but it sure sounds like it isn't about winning. More like sheer frustration and determination to end the match you don't like in any way possible, whether it be charging face-first into their fire to minimize the time fighting one way or the other, or just quitting.

When zoners play against people who know what they're doing, they have to constantly mind the opponent's position and potential actions so that they don't leave themselves open firing a projectile at the wrong time, among other things. Can't count the number of times I've eaten a punish as (Dark) Samus for firing an ill-advised Super Missile at a jumping opponent.

Probably shouldn't play multiplayer shooter games either, if you don't want to be sniped from afar by people in strong vantage positions instead of engaging in "honourable" firefights.

In FPS games u can catch me with a shotgun And endurance enhanced builds specifically designed for sprinting and close quarter combat. Any campers are singled out and hunted for the duration of the round. At least thats a game where i can punish campers hard.

 

[meleebrawler]

Oh to this i did make a point to my friend. I took krool, did nothing but run from one side of the map to the other, spamming projectiles and cheesing. Only using melee based attacks to force distance or a finishing blow. I literally was sinking into my couch cushions in comfort as i sky rocketed from 2.4m gsp to 5.1m gsp i believe it was or 5.2. And i did meet some quality players along the way who were just at to much of a disadvantage, even a very good bowser who honestly was doing everything right, (but as a bowser main he didnt really stand a chance) as i spammed him to death. A couple players ( a cloud and a lucina) even jumped off the map to end the round early (cant blame them)

It took blood sweat and tears to get bowser to 5.2 my first time. I did it with ease by spamming as krool. It took a grand total of like 2 hours, i believe 10 victories and like 2 or 3 losses. I only stopped because i couldnt stomach to do it anymore and quite frankly i dont want friends to come over and see me elite smash with krool yet i only know how to use 30% of his arsenal. Its ridiculous.




In FPS games u can catch me with a shotgun And endurance enhanced builds specifically designed for sprinting and close quarter combat. Any campers are singled out and hunted for the duration of the round. At least thats a game where i can punish campers hard.

Pics or didn't happen.

 

[Night Gale]

exists. Use it wisely. Jumping also helps.

 

[Silask20]

Pics or didn't happen.

Im here to make a point based on my experiences. Idc if you believe me or not because i know i did it and its not even anything to be proud of. Doing this with krool was extremely easy, his set up for spam is easy to pick up and it delivers. I will say i tried to do the same with lucas and couldn’t but i also spent the first few rounds learning his toolkit and still managed to win at least 1/3 my matches with just mindless spam.

 

[GhostM]

Spamming is in every smash game, including Smash 64, where projectiles induce the same hitstun as regular attacks, and as well in Melee, where Marth during the games early competitive scene was considered to be a spammy/noob character. I don't feel like characters who rely on projectiles should be punished for spamming their projectiles, since this would completely change the attributes of a zoner. Zoners are made to pressure you with projectiles, and tampering their ability to use their projectiles would completely remove the intention of what they were designed to be, well...zoners. I feel like that mindset you're having is what's causing you to get frustrated with spammers, since it's making you seem like whatever you do is ineffective at improving yourself as a player.

I'd say to just let your judgements go since setting high expectations against spammers will only frustrate you more. A bad mindset will cause you to get frustrated and will most likely make you jot out random inputs/undesired inputs out of anger. Try to focus more during the match, since it'll help you adapt to their playstyle. It'll show you your opponents openings/habits that they like to do, and this will help punishes by making them react in the way you desire. Knowing how you move during your match will also help you understand what moves or movement is causing you to get hit by projectiles, and will help you be more cautious of your opponent, and will allow you to mixup your movement to keep your opponents confused on where you're going to be. Don't take every single loss as a failure, but as a learning experience. Its normal to feel frustrated after containing your frustration for so long, but I don't think creating threads over and over will help you cope/improve as a player. Keeping a positive mindset is key for improvement, and will help you out in the long run.

If it continues to frustrate you more, you might want to find just an open arena since most decent players in the game prefer this over the quickplay. I wouldn't take online matches from the quickplay too seriously because of the input lag, which makes it more difficult to avoid/shield projectile spammers. Most pro players who are in Elite Smash don't care about their GSP, so I wouldn't either if I were you. Again, keeping a positive mindset is key for improvement.

 

[Silask20]

Spamming is in every smash game, including Smash 64, where projectiles induce the same hitstun as regular attacks, and as well in Melee, where Marth during the games early competitive scene was considered to be a spammy/noob character. I don't feel like characters who rely on projectiles should be punished for spamming their projectiles, since this would completely change the attributes of a zoner. Zoners are made to pressure you with projectiles, and tampering their ability to use their projectiles would completely remove the intention of what they were designed to be, well...zoners. I feel like that mindset you're having is what's causing you to get frustrated with spammers, since it's making you seem like whatever you do is ineffective at improving yourself as a player.

I'd say to just let your judgements go since setting high expectations against spammers will only frustrate you more. A bad mindset will cause you to get frustrated and will most likely make you jot out random inputs/undesired inputs out of anger. Try to focus more during the match, since it'll help you adapt to their playstyle. It'll show you your opponents openings/habits that they like to do, and this will help punishes by making them react in the way you desire. Knowing how you move during your match will also help you understand what moves or movement is causing you to get hit by projectiles, and will help you be more cautious of your opponent, and will allow you to mixup your movement to keep your opponents confused on where you're going to be. Don't take every single loss as a failure, but as a learning experience. Its normal to feel frustrated after containing your frustration for so long, but I don't think creating threads over and over will help you cope/improve as a player. Keeping a positive mindset is key for improvement, and will help you out in the long run.

If it continues to frustrate you more, you might want to find just an open arena since most decent players in the game prefer this over the quickplay. I wouldn't take online matches from the quickplay too seriously because of the input lag, which makes it more difficult to avoid/shield projectile spammers. Most pro players who are in Elite Smash don't care about their GSP, so I wouldn't either if I were you. Again, keeping a positive mindset is key for improvement.

Very nicely put, the input lag is definitely a huge factor as to why online spamming is frustrating as my DI decide not to work in time and i get pk frozen repeatedly and samus rockets continue to land their mark.

 

[Azcorban]

Can't count the number of times I've eaten a punish as (Dark) Samus for firing an ill-advised Super Missile at a jumping opponent.

There is no better feeling than revenging that charge shot for an 80% alolan whip. My buddy may struggle against projectiles because his awful mobility, but it's not like it's impossible to deal with them.

 

[candysell]

Use Mr. Game and Watch. Problem solved.

 

[channel_KYX]

I agree, projectiles should receive a blanket nerf. They are unfun to go against.

Okay, but that means we now have more rushdown gameplay. I sure like shieldgrabbing those pesky rushdown characters.
But wait, shieldgrabbing is pretty strong after this change, not to mention unfun to play against. I know: Let's nerf shieldgrabbing.

Ha, now I can approach more safely. Preferably with aerials, they are nice and fast. Hm, maybe a bit too strong. Better nerf aerials.

Okay, it all boiled down to dashing into each other and hitting dash and smash attacks. Little Mac op.

You see where I'm going? There will always be something that's annoying. If you nerf projectile spam, then something else will be spammed instead. You are not solving the "problem", you are just removing one aspect of it.
I find it funny that you demand other players to fight you in melee range like a man while playing one of the most fearsome close quarter characters in the game. You remind me of a friend (back in melee times) who insisted that the only real way to play smash is running at each other and using fair. No other strategies. Are you surprised he mained Marth?

Last but not least, your climbing will KRool. Congratz, you made it to almost elite. Now do yourself a favour, ignore your points and just keep playing him. Then, when losing, focus on why you lost - especially against heavies. What did they do to best you? How did they get around your projectiles? Then use this knowledge and apply it to your Bowser gameplay.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

im not having fun shouldn't mean gutting characters

 

[Silask20]

I agree, projectiles should receive a blanket nerf. They are unfun to go against.

Okay, but that means we now have more rushdown gameplay. I sure like shieldgrabbing those pesky rushdown characters.
But wait, shieldgrabbing is pretty strong after this change, not to mention unfun to play against. I know: Let's nerf shieldgrabbing.

Ha, now I can approach more safely. Preferably with aerials, they are nice and fast. Hm, maybe a bit too strong. Better nerf aerials.

Okay, it all boiled down to dashing into each other and hitting dash and smash attacks. Little Mac op.

You see where I'm going? There will always be something that's annoying. If you nerf projectile spam, then something else will be spammed instead. You are not solving the "problem", you are just removing one aspect of it.
I find it funny that you demand other players to fight you in melee range like a man while playing one of the most fearsome close quarter characters in the game. You remind me of a friend (back in melee times) who insisted that the only real way to play smash is running at each other and using fair. No other strategies. Are you surprised he mained Marth?

Last but not least, your climbing will KRool. Congratz, you made it to almost elite. Now do yourself a favour, ignore your points and just keep playing him. Then, when losing, focus on why you lost - especially against heavies. What did they do to best you? How did they get around your projectiles? Then use this knowledge and apply it to your Bowser gameplay.

The only heavy that my spamming krool takes issue with is a reverse spamming D3 and only because eventually i lose patience even if im fooling around. And Very rarely a pro donkey kong and warrio.

So far 0 issues spamming bowsers to death, ganons and most DKs. Ganon being the easiest as i just space him and hes easy to read. This feels disgusting to do.

I wish i knew how to upload vids so i could show u all what i did to this poor bowser who i was boxing and losing (he was pretty good) so i started spamming and it was a map where he just really couldnt do anything about it. I was in disbelief what was an intense round became so much easier when i flexed my thumb on that B button like a ness frothing at the mouth for pk fires.

 

[channel_KYX]

I wish i knew how to upload vids

1. Save the replay after a match by pressing Y.
2. Insert micro SD card into your Switch.
3. Export Replay into video file and save to SD card.
4. Upload to youtube et al.

 

[MaddaD]

I'll hop in a week late.

Your initial frustrations are understood, but it's not a very good stance to pin that "projectile spam bad". Especially when you're going to grief and rage quit the moment you get matched against a character type that your main has a disadvantage to. I'm actually surprised you're still allowed to play online if you're getting up to 3 hours of ban time consistently. You could always just, y'know

Play the game you paid/pay for.

There are multiple videos on how to deal with projectile characters and even generalize strategies for heavies to deal with their counterpicks. But quitting because of a bad match up is hilariously salty.

As for the K Rool strategy you performed, I'm glad you got the GSP back you think you deserved, but unfortunately, there's really not anything to prove here. Spamming K Rool projectiles against most players is fine, but any decent player is going to see your strategy and work against it. And I doubt that you'll have enough experience as the croc to really work around it.

My advice is to research more on match ups. As a heavy, you have to always consider your options in a bad match up and can't turn off the brain against every match up. I've lost to people I counter easily because they were better, switched up tactics, or just had a really bad connection (which is true, I swear!).

And as a friendly tip to help motivate you: GSP is meaningless for you. Until you can go a week without any bans or warnings, you're not a very good player, regardless of what a random number generator means. And that's just fine. Learn. Improve. Evolve.

 

[xzx]

Patch 3.0.0.

 

[Silask20]

Fighting a samus over and over and let me tell y’all im dumb founded with how much they let samus get away with as far as spam goes. I mean my gosh if i was a dev...

 

[channel_KYX]

my gosh if i was a dev...

You would change the game to cater to your play style?

 

[link2702]

You would change the game to cater to your play style?

It’s pretty much what he’s been saying this whole time “I’m too lazy to learn the matchups or pick a counter cuz my character was intentionally designed to have difficulty against zoners, so i wish i was a dev to neuter and punish players who enjoy a playstyle different from me.”

His posts can all be summed up at this point as a scrubby salt mine.

 

[meleebrawler]

It’s pretty much what he’s been saying this whole time “I’m too lazy to learn the matchups or pick a counter cuz my character was intentionally designed to have difficulty against zoners, so i wish i was a dev to neuter and punish players who enjoy a playstyle different from me.”

His posts can all be summed up at this point as a scrubby salt mine.

Mostly it's weird that he's lumping all zoners here regardless of their effectiveness as such, when his issues seem to lie solely with Samus.

 

[Silask20]

It’s pretty much what he’s been saying this whole time “I’m too lazy to learn the matchups or pick a counter cuz my character was intentionally designed to have difficulty against zoners, so i wish i was a dev to neuter and punish players who enjoy a playstyle different from me.”

His posts can all be summed up at this point as a scrubby salt mine.

I think its scrubby to support such a playstyle where you run around and throw things.

Mostly it's weird that he's lumping all zoners here regardless of their effectiveness as such, when his issues seem to lie solely with Samus.

It is all hard zoners i take issue with. Someone like robin is a good example of a balanced zoning playstyle. She cant spam they limited her as it should be with all zoners.

Also i take issue with samus because shes more than capable of being great at boxing face to face, her forward air covers a huge area and has amazing force behind it. The amount of projectiles in her arsenal are overkill and when used properly can make recovery almost impossible for alot of characters. At least with richer or simon when i get through the bs i can punish them but with her its just not that easy. Oh and shes heavy? Like wth lol

 

[meleebrawler]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Spoiler

tldr; Unless you're just using the mangled definition of the word designed to just throw mud at anything you don't like, we would only be scrubs if we called your playstyle cheap in turn.

 

[Bandannakirby]

Spammy Samus players really are a great pain, I main Isabelle and even their heavy projectile spam can get the best of me. Whenever I encounter these people I try to just approach them as fast as possible, dodging their countless charged shots and homing missiles. After that I just try to rack in as much damage until they end up going to the opposite side of the stage. Spamming is really just a cheap tactic that surprises me how someone can get enjoyment out of using the same move countless times knowing that their opponent may get frustrated. You just gotta relax and over power the opponent, not allowing them to get away.

 

[channel_KYX]

Also i take issue with samus because shes more than capable of being great at boxing face to face

Is this supposed to be irony? She is good at boxing... against Bowser?
Considering Bowser's passive, Samus has almost no options in cq that can challenge him. She can try to cross with a dash attack, but that can be punished with an oos upb. Bowser will armor through her ftilt, utilt has great start up lag. Dtilt sounds the most viable, but its hitbox only hits low, making it ineffective against sh approaches.
That's pretty much it. Her aerials are okay, but rather unsafe on shield.

I certainly don't support spamming (I think it's a non-issue). The way to go is a healthy mix of everything.

 

[Silask20]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Spoiler

tldr; Unless you're just using the mangled definition of the word designed to just throw mud at anything you don't like, we would only be scrubs if we called your playstyle cheap in turn.

Im calling genuine spammers scrubs. Their playstyle is bland, quite frankly its extremely boring to play against and it does ruin the round for me when someone plays like that. The round often ends with them having a stock more then me and then stalling for time as they lay cheesey traps that i as bowser, sometimes have to eat in order to keep up with them.

A stock that would of otherwise been saved if there was some sort of limit on how much they can spam. I dont know how any of u can support this playstyle it truely is mind boggling.

Was fighting a D3 in arena today, all he does is throw gordos on stage, float off stage and jump back to the ledge rinse and repeat. Trying to spike u for chasing him off and simply sucking u off stage. I was krool, so i could manage but what a tedious, boring, drawn out round that i nearly lost!

Sad part is hes probably well into elite smash playing like that because its extremely hard to overcome someone whos so use to doing that every hour of every day they play. Sure a newbie trying that is gonna get punished for being off stage but when its an actual person who has made it their mission to become the best camping spammer they can be then its not as easy as some of u make it out to be.

Edit and to add more, i roll my eyes and fall back in my seat when im put against a D3, a samus or a lucas because i already know there is a very high chance they are going to repeat this exact playstyle.

Very rarely i come accros ones i can respect. Ones who use their stuff, albeit alot but in the right way.

Spammy Samus players really are a great pain, I main Isabelle and even their heavy projectile spam can get the best of me. Whenever I encounter these people I try to just approach them as fast as possible, dodging their countless charged shots and homing missiles. After that I just try to rack in as much damage until they end up going to the opposite side of the stage. Spamming is really just a cheap tactic that surprises me how someone can get enjoyment out of using the same move countless times knowing that their opponent may get frustrated. You just gotta relax and over power the opponent, not allowing them to get away.

Thats what i mean i just dont understand how its any fun for the spammer either they will literally wait u out the entire round on the opposite end of the stage if u never approach. Boggles my mind how anyone can agree with or support this playstyle. I like watching tournys and replays where the players charge at eachother the entire match never slowing down. I love facing these players even though i lose over and over again to again. Its quick, intense and fun. I actually played a samus whos in major tournys dont think i can mention his name. He beat me like 7/7 times but he didnt spam.

He was in my face and used his projectiles tastefully and to set up for combos and punishes. Id say half his damage came from them and half from being in my face. I came close to winning but never quite could but this is how i like to see the game being played. And yes he proves, samus can definitely go toe to toe with melee based characters

 

[Wigglerman]

I find projectile spamming only ever obnoxious when they're actually good at it. At that point it becomes skilled zoning and not spamming. A poor projectile abuser I can eat for lunch, even with Incineroar. But such a style is a legitimate style in a lot of games, even if it's one that is usually frowned upon (Alongside viewpoints of grapplers). It's the nature of having variety in play styles. Just have to outplay the zoner, get in their head as much as they're getting into your own. Usually once a zoner slips up it becomes incredibly difficult to get a foothold again, at least for the remainder of that stock and the neutral gets reset.

Spammy Samus players really are a great pain, I main Isabelle and even their heavy projectile spam can get the best of me. Whenever I encounter these people I try to just approach them as fast as possible, dodging their countless charged shots and homing missiles. After that I just try to rack in as much damage until they end up going to the opposite side of the stage. Spamming is really just a cheap tactic that surprises me how someone can get enjoyment out of using the same move countless times knowing that their opponent may get frustrated. You just gotta relax and over power the opponent, not allowing them to get away.

The last reason is usually why people favor the play style, along with grapplers in more traditional games. Fighting games are just as much about mind games as your physical capabilities in playing the game. Some people handle pressure better than others and some can handle the stress of dealing with annoying play styles better. Those who struggle are easy pickings. It doesn't make the zoner/grappler a bad person or mean they aren't themselves having fun either. Not everyone in every game will be having fun all the time and in a competition, you're not exactly supposed to care if your opponent is having fun when the goal is to win.

Edit: Also if you find you run into spammy characters more on ranked, that's because people will do anything to win meaningless GSP. I don't view Smash's attempt at ranked to be of any credibility. It's flawed and meaningless. People fight as raw and dirty as possible to maintain some semblance of status. I always frequent player hosted Arenas where people are playing what I feel is more 'real Smash' than the online warriors in 'ranked'.

 

[Nah]

It is all hard zoners i take issue with. Someone like robin is a good example of a balanced zoning playstyle. She cant spam they limited her as it should be with all zoners.

I assure you that Robin would not become some spamming monstrosity if her tomes were ever made to not run out.

Something else to keep in mind is that everyone has fun in different ways.

 

[DrDank44]

kind of sounds like you need to learn how to play against projectiles. I think campy sonic play is much much worse

 

[MaddaD]

Also i take issue with samus because shes more than capable of being great at boxing face to face

Against a Bowser? What are you talking about?

The amount of projectiles in her arsenal are overkill

???

Im calling genuine spammers scrubs. Their playstyle is bland, quite frankly its extremely boring to play against and it does ruin the round for me when someone plays like that. The round often ends with them having a stock more then me and then stalling for time as they lay cheesey traps that i as bowser, sometimes have to eat in order to keep up with them.

A stock that would of otherwise been saved if there was some sort of limit on how much they can spam. I dont know how any of u can support this playstyle it truely is mind boggling.

Nobody does. Everybody in the thread is offering advice on a bad match up but you seem to not want to be able to admit that your main has a weakness.

Also since you said that you mimicked this exact play style, does that make you a scrub as well?

 

[Silask20]

Against a Bowser? What are you talking about?


???


Nobody does. Everybody in the thread is offering advice on a bad match up but you seem to not want to be able to admit that your main has a weakness.

Also since you said that you mimicked this exact play style, does that make you a scrub as well?

Im definitely a scrub krool for playing the way i played with him yes and i take blame for it but it had to be tested. And if you play krool via spam than you fall under the same umbrella as everyone else.

Also i like the advice alot of it i already do but it doesnt stop the fact that these matchups are tedious, stale and just s headache to deal with.

kind of sounds like you need to learn how to play against projectiles. I think campy sonic play is much much worse

Campy sonics are really bad to but at least thats punishable and u can hit him out of his little ball.

 

[Naptec]

I'll hop in several weeks late.

I dont know why spamming projectiles is a thing in this game

Because it's a thing in every 2D fighting game, it's not a Smash-exclusive problem. Also because those guys only want to win for meaningless virtual points

Every projectile should have limitations on how often or how much it can be used

Yeah, so basically make every projectile character in this game like Robin. Sure, whatever. What, they have poor close combat capabilities? Who cares, as long as they fight like real men?
More seriously, there's a reason why Robin have that mechanic and not the other zoners. It's because she was designed around it. If you slap that mechanic into another character, like Samus, I'm 100% sure they'll instantly drop to bottom tier

I think its scrubby to support such a playstyle where you run around and throw things

I guess you tried to dumbify the zoner playstyle, but I could also say the same for rushdown characters by their playstyle revolve around running around and mashing buttons up-close.

Also i take issue with samus because shes more than capable of being great at boxing face to face

Bro, you play Bowser. This dude is super dangerous when boxing you. Of course you want to camp him, he can kill you at 40% without rage! Campy Samus is just playing optimally at this point (even tho they probably don't realize it)


Also zoning is totally different from spam because a good zoner is constantly thinking about your next approach and what to do accordingly to that approach (and it's way harder than you think)

Now, here's some videos that can help you fighting campy Samus or any campers online and/or what is the mindset of a zoner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__QOjOhEfq0 - How to Think like a Zoner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRlO_CNTRKs - How to Deal with Camping (And How to Camp)