Why is Sakurai nerfing characters that already suck?

[Engage]

You mean Rush Escaping, which is just using Up B after hitstun is finished which is completely normal unlike Rush Cancel. Useful, but it's not the same as it was in 1.0.3.

Ah, well there goes Rush Cancel.

 

[Tattles]

You just made an IC main somewhere cry...
...their tears are so tasty.

I main Icies in PM, those would be my tears that you're tasting

 

[Ekans647]

Life ain't fair Don't worry, this won't be the last patch they do. If there's an epidemic of losing Dr. Mario's, Sakurai will notice and apply a fix in a future patch. I know your frustrations as an Ike main...I mean, Ike got it a little better than Dr. Mario, but still, these two characters are still FAR from the top. This isn't the end mate, hang in there.

Are you kidding me? Ike got a huge buff with this new patch. His Fair is executed more swiftly than before, is Bair KOes ~10% earlier, F-tilt comes out faster, Jab connect consistently now, and his D-tilt is quicker, does more damage, and pops your opponent up into a combo position. He's easily high tier now. It does suck that Shiek and Greninja were nerfed.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Are you kidding me? Ike got a huge buff with this new patch. His Fair is executed more swiftly than before, is Bair KOes ~10% earlier, F-tilt comes out faster, Jab connect consistently now, and his D-tilt is quicker, does more damage, and pops your opponent up into a combo position. He's easily high tier now. It does suck that Shiek and Greninja were nerfed.

You got a few facts wrong...the IASA frames for F-tilt and D-tilt occur sooner, but the actual moves require the same amount of time to execute. While the rest of what you say is true, Ike is still far from top tier. His smashes still take way to much time to initiate, and leave him vulnerable when he misses. I'd hardle consider this a "huge buff". Even if it was, a huge buff for an under average character only gets him so high.

 

[Ekans647]

You got a few facts wrong...the IASA frames for F-tilt and D-tilt occur sooner, but the actual moves require the same amount of time to execute. While the rest of what you say is true, Ike is still far from top tier. His smashes still take way to much time to initiate, and leave him vulnerable when he misses. I'd hardle consider this a "huge buff". Even if it was, a huge buff for an under average character only gets him so high.

Sorry about that, I was only quoting the data thread for the new patch. The point of my post was to say that Ike was buffed.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

What Sakurai didn't tell you is Little Mac also might have the most wins online too. Being the #1 most losing doesn't mean you are the worst, it probably just means you are used the most. Based on nerfing him I'm guessing that this was the case.

my theory is that Sakurai is not trying to balance how good everyone is but he's trying to balance usage. I think he nerfed characters who were used more and buffed those who were used less. Metaknight was definitely not worse than Palutena yet one is liked and used so she got a nerf and MK isn't a god anymore so people got discouraged using him (being used to playing him as a God) so his usage is low and hence the buffs.

 

[Random4811]

I main Icies in PM, those would be my tears that you're tasting

Cry some more~

 

[QuickRat]

Is there a list of changes in v1.04?

 

[rubiksmoose]

I'm just mad that Mr. Game & Watch went unchanged, when he really ate the nerfhammer for this game.

I feel you buddy. I had high hopes for something in the way of buffs. Maybe a future patch?

 

[Dyna]

When hasn't Samus been trash? Only when her suit comes off

In Melee, she is godlike.

 

[Malcolmnex]

everyone saying greninja got a huge nerf but i havent noticed yet. im literally horrified by what they did to my bowser jr! its like i cant even combo anymore.....

 

[Raijinken]

In Melee, she is godlike.

Goddess of Middle A-Tier, aka the Not Quite Good Enough tier, you mean.

But really, I'm just glad to see they will be adjusting balance as the game goes on. Nothing's ever just right the first time, but with some luck and some clever design on Sakurai et al's part, maybe we'll end up with a mostly balanced game. Y'know. Like none of the last three games have been.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

Well, Brawl Samus is leagues above Smash4 Samus and that's saying a lot.

Well, Melee Samus will always be beastly good.

I always wonder why Sakurai said that Samus was the best and lied

 

[YELLO]

they NEED to fix the controls being so unresponsive all the time

 

[Darklink401]

IN GENERAL what happened was, strong characters got nerfs, weak characters got buffs, and inthemiddle characters got jack shizz (or in Zelda's case, 1% more damage)

In general.

I think they're doin pretty well.

 

[S_B]

Bowsercide now kills Bowser instead of the opponent, and if the opponent has solid recovery, they can get back to the stage.

This means that, if Bowser uses the klaw, it's now a gigantic liability because the opponent can use it to kill him.

In other words, Bowsercide has become "Koopinasia".

 

[Darklink401]

Bowsercide now kills Bowser instead of the opponent, and if the opponent has solid recovery, they can get back to the stage.

This means that, if Bowser uses the klaw, it's now a gigantic liability because the opponent can use it to kill him.

In other words, Bowsercide has become "Koopinasia".

Basically:

Only use it if you're a stock ahead, against characters with bad recoveries.

AKA not Villager. I'm loving this.

...sorry for you Bowser mains tho.

 

[Tattles]

Basically:

Only use it if you're a stock ahead, against characters with bad recoveries.

AKA not Villager. I'm loving this.

...sorry for you Bowser mains tho.

I understand them changing it to Bowser dying first... but why can the enemy escape it? Why was that neccesary?

 

[Darklink401]

I main Icies in PM, those would be my tears that you're tasting

I understand them changing it to Bowser dying first... but why can the enemy escape it? Why was that neccesary?

IDK

I mean, it pretty much invalidates that move against Villager, Lucario at high percents, and even characters like Diddy and Sheik, in walled stages.

 

[Tattles]

IDK

I mean, it pretty much invalidates that move against Villager, Lucario at high percents, and even characters like Diddy and Sheik, in walled stages.

Is there a very specific window of time, inbetween Bowser and his victim dying? Or do you literally escape it?

 

[Darklink401]

I've never done it, but apparently you can escape it right after bowser dies, meaning...mash up B or jump?

 

[Gameboi834]

Why the hell did Shulk get such a big buff? Speed Shulk is now just the old Shulk but at Sonic speed. How is that fair at all?

 

[PSIBoy]

I always wonder why Sakurai said that Samus was the best and lied

Couldn't they have changed Samus up in between that statement and the actual release?

I've never done it, but apparently you can escape it right after bowser dies, meaning...mash up B or jump?

That would completely defeat the purpose of even attempting Bowsercide in the first place if you can escape it and make it back.

 

[Darklink401]

Couldn't they have changed Samus up in between that statement and the actual release?



That would completely defeat the purpose of even attempting Bowsercide in the first place if you can escape it and make it back.

Maybe they meant ZSS?

Also...yeah, that DOES defeat the point.

That's why it's like the worst move now.

 

[Shonoun]

Nobody cares about Meta Knight? I would've mained him in Brawl if he wasn't so OP, but now he isn't even worth playing in competitive. Even after those little tiny buffs that made him a tiny bit better, he just doesn't do any damage and his range is worse than Marth's. There are a few other things too, like the SideB nerf, but he's just unplayable.

 

[PSIBoy]

Nobody cares about Meta Knight? I would've mained him in Brawl if he wasn't so OP, but now he isn't even worth playing in competitive. Even after those little tiny buffs that made him a tiny bit better, he just doesn't do any damage and his range is worse than Marth's. There are a few other things too, like the SideB nerf, but he's just unplayable.

Meta Knight got hit hard this time, there's no denying that. I think the big issue that should be covered is range. Meta Knight needs more range. Everything else can stay the same, but his range is absolutely pathetic for a character with a sword and low KO power this time around.

 

[S_B]

That would completely defeat the purpose of even attempting Bowsercide in the first place if you can escape it and make it back.

And yet you can do exactly that.

Also, if you have a lower % than Bowser does, you can steer him to his death if he uses the move on you, so the move just became a gigantic liability for Bowser to use, even with NO intention of using it to Bowsercide...

 

[PSIBoy]

And yet you can do exactly that.

Also, if you have a lower % than Bowser does, you can steer him to his death if he uses the move on you, so the move just became a gigantic liability for Bowser to use, even with NO intention of using it to Bowsercide...

Flying Slam just became the worst move in the game on the edge... It's only practical use now is on a higher percentage opponent or on the center of the stage to KO them (generally above 100).

 

[Batu]

Link got hit by the nerf hammer too... He was mid tier and the patch ruined his *** cancel>other moves, and the only thing they have to fix about him was his 1jab suction effect to get rid of the "jab infinite" that it was not an infinite at all in the first place. Now his close quarters combat game is now ruined, and all cuz it was mistaken as a infinite...

 

[Deleted member]

I guess it is just to really do some sort of terrible move where there is the top characters... and the bottom of the pit.

I just don't know why either. Why does Nintendo do this stuff when there could easily be game appealing to both casual and competitive players ( i'm pointing at Melee, the best example ). Perhaps they gotta open their ears to the community, rather than just QA?

 

[Pixel_]

I don't know either, but does anyone know how tier lists and stuff are in Japan/other places?

Maybe they found stuff a bit different from us...?

 

[Monado Master]

It's not exactly like you have to download the patch though. However, if you want to battle online, then you pretty much have no choice, and this will take a toll on your pre-1.0.4 replays as well.

Yep, that happened to me, i had a GREAT replay of my killing two characters by countering a villagers tree on for glory, and me and my teammate taunting at the same time. After the 1.0.4 update i was

Why the hell did Shulk get such a big buff? Speed Shulk is now just the old Shulk but at Sonic speed. How is that fair at all?

Actually didn't really get a big buff, he got a bit of a damage buff to some of his attack but speed is not a faster vanilla . His jump is lowered like crazy and i think he does a little less damage. It's been a while sense i've actually played Smash4.

 

[Gunla]

This thread was necro'd by nearly 6 months. In addition, the topic of this thread doesn't really do much to advance discussion and serves mostly as a complaint thread, so it will be locked as a result.