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Why is Sakurai nerfing characters that already suck?

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StarLight42

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Dr. Mario, as bad as he is normally in this game, got even more nerfed in V1.04! WHY? What the hell? Everyone else's main gets all these new awesome buffs when my character just gets nerfed when he already sucks.


This isn't just generally about Dr. Mario either (or else it would be in Doc boards) There might be other characters who share this distinction
 
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D

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Life ain't fair :( Don't worry, this won't be the last patch they do. If there's an epidemic of losing Dr. Mario's, Sakurai will notice and apply a fix in a future patch. I know your frustrations as an Ike main...I mean, Ike got it a little better than Dr. Mario, but still, these two characters are still FAR from the top. This isn't the end mate, hang in there.
 

StarLight42

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Life ain't fair :( Don't worry, this won't be the last patch they do. If there's an epidemic of losing Dr. Mario's, Sakurai will notice and apply a fix in a future patch. I know your frustrations as an Ike main...I mean, Ike got it a little better than Dr. Mario, but still, these two characters are still FAR from the top. This isn't the end mate, hang in there.
Thanks buddy. :( Hope they buff Ike for ya' too.
 

Tattles

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Meh, the best thing I got was the throw fixes with Marth. Peach had technical things removed, and Zelda got like a .5% damage buff on her up tilt. I don't have it bad, but I don't have it very good either. I guess i'm lucky to not play any nerfed characters, but hang in there man. Doc's time will come.
 

BBC7

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Didn't they buff Doc's weight? I heard they did so for Mario, I'd be surprised to hear that Doc is lighter.

As a Mega Man player, I'm not complaining. They buffed Leaf Shield by making it a legitimate threat when thrown and Fair, Bair, Dair, and D-Tilt kill earlier now. I care mostly for Bair since it already killed early as hell.

Then they remove Rush Cancel and my NaCl levels reach new heights.
 
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Meian

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If there's an epidemic of losing Dr. Mario's, Sakurai will notice and apply a fix in a future patch.
Sakurai stated Little Mac has the most losses online and that these losses aren't really what tells him that is good or bad. Look what happened to Little Mac this patch.
 
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D

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Sakurai stated Little Mac has the most losses online and that these losses aren't really what tells him that is good or bad. Look what happened to Little Mac this patch.
What you say is true, but out of context. He said that he can see the wins and losses for every character, Lil Mac had an "unusual amount" of losses, and he went on to explain that was because newer players saw him as overpowered, went and played as him, and then ended up losing. Had his losses been more linear and fitting with the rest of the data, there's a great chance he would've buffed the character in some way.
 

Reila

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New patches will eventually come, other characters will be nerfed, others will be buffed. Or maybe Dr. Mario will be nerfed again, who knows? Anyways, Pikachu, Meta Knight and Kirby got buffs, so I can't complain. I wish ZSS was nerfed instead of buffed, but still...

Also, I think people really should stop blaming everything on Sakurai. He doesn't make the game alone, there is a huge team of people working on it.
 

HeroMystic

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Didn't they buff Doc's weight? I heard they did so for Mario, I'd be surprised to hear that Doc is lighter.
Those claims were false. Mario and Doc are the same weight as they always have been.
 

StarLight42

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Those claims were false. Mario and Doc are the same weight as they always have been.
Actually I believe Dr. Mario's weight was increased a bit over Mario's in this new update, but it still doesn't help when he's nerfed everywhere else and his recovery is still garbage.
 
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Shmoopy

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Hold on. They make changes to characters during the update versions? I thought they were just a wifi programming enhancement or something.

You see guys, its stuff like this that leaves me scared for some chars.
You wake up the next day only to find that your main has become complete garbage. This can happen on Project M as well.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Hold on. They make changes to characters during the update versions? I thought they were just an online programming enhancement or something.

You see guys, its stuff like this that leaves me scared for some chars.
You wake up the next day only to find that your main has become complete garbage. This can happen on Project M as well.
It's not exactly like you have to download the patch though. However, if you want to battle online, then you pretty much have no choice, and this will take a toll on your pre-1.0.4 replays as well.
 

HeroMystic

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Actually I believe Dr. Mario's weight was increased a bit over Mario's in this new update, but it still doesn't help when he's nerfed everywhere else and his recovery is still garbage.
I just tested it. Both Marios dies to Mario's U-Smash at 123% and not a percent less. They're the same weight.
 

Tattles

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I'm just mad that Mr. Game & Watch went unchanged, when he really ate the nerfhammer for this game.
Not as bad as the Ice Climbers. They're practically unplayable.
 
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Igzex

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Apparently the landing lag on D.Air was decreased so that's one good thing I think?

We gotta keep in mind that the post-game development crew consider not only metagames when looking at nerfs that appear unjustified. That, or Sakurai's whimsical tendencies.
 

Dyna

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Samus is garbage, and I don't think Sakurai even touched her this time around, which I am grateful, I don't want her to be worse.
 

DarkKiru

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Apparently the landing lag on D.Air was decreased so that's one good thing I think?

We gotta keep in mind that the post-game development crew consider not only metagames when looking at nerfs that appear unjustified. That, or Sakurai's whimsical tendencies.
As far as I can tell (unless im blissfully unaware of something)

Hasn't Doc gotten nothing but buffs so far (confirmed things anyway)?

Fair knockback went up a bit

and while the number of hits went down for dair, it also has reduced lag and more vertical knockback; really you could make a case for both buff and nerf for this one.
 

Dyna

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Even though I don't use Samus, it pisses me off that she still sucks, and Malibu Barbie Samus is amazingly good.
Well, Brawl Samus is leagues above Smash4 Samus and that's saying a lot.

Well, Melee Samus will always be beastly good.
 

HeavyLobster

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As far as I can tell (unless im blissfully unaware of something)

Hasn't Doc gotten nothing but buffs so far (confirmed things anyway)?

Fair knockback went up a bit

and while the number of hits went down for dair, it also has reduced lag and more vertical knockback; really you could make a case for both buff and nerf for this one.
From what I can make out he's gotten a mix of buffs and nerfs. I haven't messed with him much post-patch but from what the Doc boards say it looks like overall he's probably slightly better, though none of the nerfs he got(mainly the B-throw nerf) were really justified. I can't understand why Dedede got almost straight nerfs though. He was probably no better than low-mid pre-patch and for some reason his Gordos were made even easier to deflect.
Edit: OK, most of the stuff they listed was fake. All Doc got was an Fair buff and a Dair change that's a bit ambiguous as to whether it's a buff or nerf. Nevertheless, Doc's slightly better overall now.
 
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Gidy

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Sakurai nerfed the hell out Link, who was mid tier at best even with his Advanced Tech. Now he's back to having a slight case of Link syndrome :/
 

BioZelink

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What was nerfed exactly? All i noticed is that his dair does less hits and actually has less ending lag? So what was nerfed exactly?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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K-45

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Ik the feeling and sadness of your main getting nerf. megamans rush cancel is out B but for testing he got small buff to his up air and leaf shield.
 
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BioZelink

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The following quote answers that question.
exactly those are buffs not nerfs. The fair is stronger, dair does less hits so its easier to connect and i think its the same or almost the same damage wise, and it sends opponents upwards, in other words in a possition for you to follow up. So ill as again what nerfs do you see?
 

LinkNIvy

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Namco's in charge of balance, not Sakurai, btw, so quit singling him out.
Sakurai nerfed the hell out Link, who was mid tier at best even with his Advanced Tech. Now he's back to having a slight case of Link syndrome :/
ATs got removes but otherwise he'a buffed
 
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Morlock138

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I actually hope they don't patch this too often. I'm surprised we got a balance change so soon. I haven't even got to play & get used to the Wii U version. I think they need to wait longer/get more data before they go changing things. (unless something is extremely off)
 

Roko Jono

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This is one of the reasons Nintendo probably doesn't release official patch notes. All the QQ that goes on no matter what they do. It happens in many games I see. No matter if justified or not, big or small, someone's gonna cry about it.

We should be happy they're trying.
 
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Lemon Girl

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Just to note, Zero Suit wasn't buffed, she was fixed, her moves didn't connect as they were intented. Ok, it may come as an indirect buff, but still, that's how she was supossed to work from the start. Remember that this is the Wii U vanilla version, if anything, you can expect actual buff/nerfs in the future.
 
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Engage

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Didn't they buff Doc's weight? I heard they did so for Mario, I'd be surprised to hear that Doc is lighter.

As a Mega Man player, I'm not complaining. They buffed Leaf Shield by making it a legitimate threat when thrown and Fair, Bair, Dair, and D-Tilt kill earlier now. I care mostly for Bair since it already killed early as hell.

Then they remove Rush Cancel and my NaCl levels reach new heights.
Rush cancelling is still there.
 
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