why is ness < kirby

[AlKrauser]

Why is Ness Worse?

Ness has a superb recovery, his PSI magnet can regenetate health, he has 2 projectiles and his PK thunder can be used as a Ledge guard. He has a great forward smash, different down and up smashes and can double jump cancel. Ness also has one of the Best spikes in the game, so why isnt he better than Kirby.

 

[Fireblaster]

Why is Ness Worse?

Ness has a superb recovery,

lol

his PSI magnet can regenetate health,

That really helps ness against Kirby when Kirby is trying to projectile spam with his upB.

He has a great forward smash,

Lol

different down and up smashes

Lol. DIFFERENT... THAT'S what matters.

 

[NixxxoN]

Try to know Ness better before comparing him with other characters

 

[Vaxany]

hey guys

ty

 

[Superstar]

Vaxany is correct. Even Pika when he's high.

Kirby is just too broke.

Oh, and if you fight someone who knows what they are doing, Ness will never get back to the stage. Ever.

 

[NixxxoN]

What Superstar said

Although Ness does well against Kirby

 

[Mr. Rogu]

um i dont think so ness > kirby. kirbys great but ness is still better. you dont see kirby forward throwing someone, than spiking them and killing them when there at 0 damage and its a zero to death combo.

 

[House]

Ness is cool.

 

[Winston]

(looks at previous two posts) Wow what an excellent thread xD

the thought of ness being a good character is funny

 

[Superstar]

House is kidding. Ness may be "cool", but not that good.

Ness does well [or decent] against Kirby. Out of Mario/Ness, I prefer using Ness for that matchup.

um i dont think so ness > kirby. kirbys great but ness is still better. you dont see kirby forward throwing someone, than spiking them and killing them when there at 0 damage and its a zero to death combo.

You don't see Ness dair->utiltx2->bair, and tap them with dair offstage and they instantly die.

...o wait... you just don't see the last part. Kirby's spike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ness. All Ness has over him when it comes to spiking is DJC.

Kirby has better recovery, best utilt/dair in the game, and hitboxes of pure ****. That's pretty much it.

 

[MATTS!]

Let one of the best smashers talk here.... let alone the best Kirby....


Kirby pwns ness no matter how good of a ness player you are. Kirby rediculously sticks his foot up Ness's a.ss then eats him so he has a kool backwards HAT.


Ness is only good for making everybody else in smash bros breakfast in the morning.


FoOt-PwNeD

MATTS!

 

[Superstar]

Kirby has advantage over Ness, I admit. Just not as large as it may be with some other chars.

Kirby is just too good.

In other news, should I animate my avi? Nah, I think this pose is fine.

 

[Metà]

At first this thread was kind of

: /

But then MATTS! posted in it, and it became

: D

And yes, Kirby is too good, and Ness is the most over-rated character ever. You have no idea how many times I've had to explain to people who don't really play the game why Ness isn't as good as the GameFAQS tier list indicates. Ness blows, period.

 

[Surri-Sama]

At first this thread was kind of

: /

But then MATTS! posted in it, and it became

: D

And yes, Kirby is too good, and Ness is the most over-rated character ever. You have no idea how many times I've had to explain to people who don't really play the game why Ness isn't as good as the GameFAQS tier list indicates. Ness blows, period.

good point

10fails

 

[NixxxoN]

Kirby has advantage over Ness, I admit. Just not as large as it may be with some other chars.

I think Ness is indeed one of the best against Kirby, i think its about 50/50 or similar. Anyone agrees?

 

[Superstar]

Ness is pretty good. But VERY overrated.

Countless times I've had to explain that he is not 3rd best in the game. However, he is not low tier nor bottom. An overrated character is viewed more harshly than, well, one that isn't, by those that don't overrate him. But eh, what can you do?

I don't think it's 50/50. All I know, it isn't complete suicide like picking Mario would be. At least Ness can hit a campy Kirby, Mario has to abuse those projectiles for a long time to get a hit, which is hard if the Kirby knows how to block them. It's still advantage Kirby versus both.

I will admit, there are VERY few Ness players. I've often joked that I'm the best US Ness main just cause everyone blows with him, and the only people in the US who are good with Ness only toy with him a bit.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Ness is pretty good. But VERY overrated.

Countless times I've had to explain that he is not 3rd best in the game. However, he is not low tier nor bottom. An overrated character is viewed more harshly than, well, one that isn't, by those that don't overrate him. But eh, what can you do?

I don't think it's 50/50. All I know, it isn't complete suicide like picking Mario would be. At least Ness can hit a campy Kirby, Mario has to abuse those projectiles for a long time to get a hit, which is hard if the Kirby knows how to block them. It's still advantage Kirby versus both.

I will admit, there are VERY few Ness players. I've often joked that I'm the best US Ness main just cause everyone blows with him, and the only people in the US who are good with Ness only toy with him a bit.

Ness is only "over rated" by the tiers....the community UNDERrates him

I agree that he is not TOP tier, but deffinitly High tier

 

[Fireblaster]

I don't think it's 50/50. All I know, it isn't complete suicide like picking Mario would be.

You don't know what you're talking about. Mario >>>>>>>>> Kirby.

 

[Surri-Sama]

You don't know what you're talking about. Mario >>>>>>>>> Kirby.

Any Char with a powerfull Usmash > >>> Kirby!

...Fox..Mario....etc...¿?

 

[Superstar]

Eh, haven't fought a Korby in forever then. Still though, fireballs don't help against Kirby as well as against some chars. Nair, fair, those stuff block fireballs.

Well, actually, picking Mario isn't suicide, It just usually turns out to be a very, very, very long match. I notice against some Kirbys, if they camp the match can take 10 minutes. I can combo a wee bit better now [my combo ability was way worse last time I fought a Korby], but I still believe you need a long time of waiting for an opening. I guess I made the stupid mistake of annoying equaling disadvantaged.

Probably a stall war lasting 12 minutes of constant fireballs and any approach being punished made me think that way. XD I won one match, lost the other barely, so, meh, was a long time ago. When I used Ness, campy Korbys felt a little easier to punish just by bairing alone.

I'll take the usmash thing into mind. And no, Kirby's B is not a reason for anything in this matchup. XD If Kirby manages to eat you, you either messed up or overall suck.

EDIT: Methinks Ness is low high or high mid.

 

[ExCeL 52]

You don't know what you're talking about. Mario >>>>>>>>> Kirby.

I gotta have whatever you are smoking.

 

[Superstar]

Well, actually, he's one of the best Mario mains I know [so much so that I was hoping he'd use Mario against me, but he used Yoshi and I knew he just wanted practice], so, do NOT take what he says regarding Mario with a grain of salt.

The only way he'd be smoking something, is if all the Kirby's he fought were offensive, and the "gay" ones weren't any good at it. If he fought some VERY defensive good Korbies, which he likely did, I'd take his word over mine.

EDIT: I know when to back off. It's like if I say that Pikachu has a bad matchup versus Donkey Kong, and Surri disagreed. Except not as ********.

And yes, I know he put more > than is the case. He was just trying to make his point deeper.

 

[ExCeL 52]

@Superstar...

Oh alright I see what he is saying.. I play kirby very offensively .. so I took it the wrong way.. Lol

 

[Superstar]

And he was talking just that matchup, not overall. He'd have to be smoking something big to say Mario is overall better than Kirby.

Offensive Kirby is eh. More fun, but eh. Almost like offensive Ness, cept worse [at least, feels worse...].

 

[NixxxoN]

Kirby sucks... too easy too simple too noobish
From my experience, when I have to fight against a good Kirby, I pick Ness. The DJC usmash/dsmash help a lot. When I fought against Matts for example, I did much better with Ness than with any other char.
I also think Mario does good against him but not as much

About the tiers, I'd put Ness behind fox and falcon and probably behind mario too

 

[Superstar]

Are you high Nixxon. XD

How easy a character is to pick up means nothing when you are talking about how good they are. They can still suck, or be good. Same with techs and such. Ease does not matter.

Also, I do not see DJC usmash working unless you're comboing, or the Kirby dair spams. DJC bairs to poke Kirby seems to be more effective.

Also, do not use people on EGX as proof that Kirby sucks. I can 5 stock many Kirbies, they just suck balls. Only a few gave any trouble whatsoever. At this time, 2 Kirbies, when I've fought more than 30. One was Matts, the other was the camp fest.

 

[Oracle]

You can't edgeguard with his up b. It has vertical knockback.

 

[NixxxoN]

How easy a character is to pick up means nothing when you are talking about how good they are. They can still suck, or be good. Same with techs and such. Ease does not matter.

Also, I do not see DJC usmash working unless you're comboing, or the Kirby dair spams. DJC bairs to poke Kirby seems to be more effective.

Also, do not use people on EGX as proof that Kirby sucks. I can 5 stock many Kirbies, they just suck balls. Only a few gave any trouble whatsoever. At this time, 2 Kirbies, when I've fought more than 30. One was Matts, the other was the camp fest.

lol I didnt say that Kirby does bad, i said kirby sucks because hes a stupid/boring character with broken crap and and cheap/easy/simple stuff and noobs can do well with him.
Use Ness' dair/uair spam against him, the dair-djc is very useful when Kirby is on the ground

 

[Wenbobular]

You can't edgeguard with his up b. It has vertical knockback.

The downstroke spikes (not that it makes it much better )
It's probably better used as a combo finisher...

 

[Superstar]

Also, forgot to really mention. Ness has one of the best spikes, Kirby has the best.

@Wen - I think Winged was referring to Ness, not Kirby.

And ah, sucks as in boring to play with. Ah well. Dunno much about range/priority in that matchup to know how every move works, but I don't think DJC uairs outrange Kirby even on the ground. I think that's just asking for a ****.

 

[Wenbobular]

Pfft, neither of their up-b's are used for edgeguarding anyways, so it's a moot point either way.
In general, anyone vs Kirby seems to turn into a stupid spacing match because stupid Uptilt combos with itself on everyone except like, Luigi Jiggs and Samus.

Playing against a Kirby successfully usually requires...
a) a projectile to force him to come to you
b) better aerial maneuverability to get around stupid feet
c) good enough game sense to get in hits though moves with stupid priority + range

Since Ness has neither a good projectile nor better aerial mobility (in my opinion, DJC isn't terribly effective when you don't have Yoshi durability in the 2nd jump), you have to just rely on being better than the Kirby to get in hits...which...eh. Have fun with that. <_< (unless you're both complete newbies or you're significantly better than the Kirby, I don't think it's happening)

 

[Winston]

****it it's no longer cool to bash Ness because he's now UNDERrated apparently... ><

Pikachu Falcon Kirby Fox Mario Yoshi > Ness, fair?

 

[Superstar]

Pikachu Falcon Kirby Fox > Ness is fair. XD

If he's worse than Mario, won't really get worse than that. Well, once you think of it, tier wise, he's hella low cause everyone underrates him. Tiers are not how good a character is, but a view of the metagame. By that view, Kirby should be low.

...not big enough of a scene for that. >_<

And, only Mario/Fox have a good enough projectile. MAYBE Yoshi.

Ness has priority, so it seems with some moves, he can kinda outrange Kirby. That and decent combo ability versus Kirby. I don't know anything of the actual hitboxes themselves though.

 

[Superstar]

BLARGH double post. Bask in my sexiness instead.

 

[MarioReincarnate]

link > ness

 

[Skrlx]

any character can beat ness up. hell, even my dk puts a beating on ness. it's all about taking advantage of his s h i t t y recovery and the ability of being knocked out of his second jump due to DJC and edgeguarding when he's doing his pk thunder.

but in this case
kirby > ness

only because kirby has advantage of his vulnerable state while trying to recover.

 

[greenblob]

I started playing some SSB again (will probably stop once school starts again, especially since my school has a ****ty connection). Now I get to complain about how every character except for the ones I use are broken!

Ness's hitboxes and DJC is broken.
Kirby's huge hitboxes are broken.
Link's projectiles are broken.
Yoshi's superarmor and DJC is broken.
Pika's huge hitboxes and recovery and combos and edgeguarding and everything is broken.

We should call this game Super Hitbox Bros. Pika.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

to answer the original question, Ness has a horrible recovery, it is incredibly easy to gimp, Ness's only main strength is his priority and his DJC combos. His down smash is kinda good for edgeguards but his other smashes are actually kinda bad
Kirby on the other hand has a pretty good recovery (as ssb64 recoveries go), overly high priority, and the probable best move in the game (Up Tilt), Kirby has a good enough range and priority to overwhelm basically every character but characters that either have better recoveries/priority (pikachu) or incredibly good projectiles (fox and mario)

 

[Winston]

Pikachu Falcon Kirby Fox > Ness is fair. XD

If he's worse than Mario, won't really get worse than that. Well, once you think of it, tier wise, he's hella low cause everyone underrates him. Tiers are not how good a character is, but a view of the metagame. By that view, Kirby should be low.

...not big enough of a scene for that. >_<

And, only Mario/Fox have a good enough projectile. MAYBE Yoshi.

Ness has priority, so it seems with some moves, he can kinda outrange Kirby. That and decent combo ability versus Kirby. I don't know anything of the actual hitboxes themselves though.

Wow I disagree with almost everything in this post T__T

Tiers DO say how good a character is... not how well he's doing/how many people play him. Tiers are mostly theory-based, though they should generally match tournament results (which obviously don't exist for this game).

 

[Superstar]

Tiers are, at least supposed to be, an overall measure of the metagame. Basically, how much of a threat a character presents. They are normally supposed to be based [not completely reliant] on tournament results, the ones that matter, of course. Which is also why tiers shift. This, of course, assumes people want to win, and will pick the characters they are good at. However, some games try to do it differently [I'm pretty sure Melee does]. Pokemon looks ONLY on usage and usage alone, which is the only example I can think of straight up metagame.

However, making a tier list like that for SSB64 would be stupid. It'd look kinda like this:

Fox
Falcon
Pikachu
Mario
Kirby
Jigglypuff
Yoshi
Link
DK
Luigi
Ness
Samus

So, a character should be ranked on how good they are, and given how small SSB64's scene is, it's VERY hard to debate such a thing. Very often, we're throwing darts. But it makes for good discussions. XD Makes the boards seem a little less ded.

If you disagree with decent combo ability and Ness having priority, and the projectile stuff [minus Link, I forgot to mention Link], you're on drugs. XD I do not know myself how does Ness' priority compare with Kirby's [on some moves, on all, Kirby wins]. Like was said, I'm throwing darts, Ness vs Kirby matches are hard to come by unless I'm playing nubs on EGX, I have a friendly and someone who never uses Kirby uses it, or I fight Matts.

Also:

in my opinion, DJC isn't terribly effective when you don't have Yoshi durability in the 2nd jump

Ness doesn't get Yoshi's durability with DJC, but combos better [at least at a lower level] with it. Against Kirby though, durability matters more.

The only area Ness would be able to beat Kirby is with priority. By that, I mean, IF Ness has more priority on some moves. I don't got AntD's gear. XD

And, I agree with Koro, cept he didn't mention dair spike, which pales to Kirby's and the only usage he has over Korby is DJCing it. XD Also, usmash is a combo move for Ness, so I disagree there as well. FSmash is poop.