why is it sheik> marth?

[Teczer0]

lololol

Sheik can't CG marth 0-death.

She can only dthrow ftilt fair unless you DI away from her.

Marth's best chance is probably FD.

 

[hamonyou]

ok so dont counter pick FD against sheik and i got how to do it alittle better, its just all about timing

 

[DtJ Jungle]

If you are playing like an marth that doesn't understand how to use the controller, you might be able to cg to death. But even then they can get lucky and jam on the c stick and hit you.

 

[Smoke and smash]

-_- **** guys. I didn't say his cg was 0-death. But it sure as hell leads down that road. Cg+ tilts+ fairs= death. I thought that was something that was already understood.

 

[Teczer0]

Well... I'm sorry its partly my fault for acting stupid.

In any case.

Sheik doesn't like 0-80 marth at all ever.

Marth doesn't auto lose on FD either.

Its kinda close IMO. Not 51-49 but you get what I mean.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

its like 55-45.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Wow, marth AUTO loses vs sheik on FD. If the skill is even, the sheik will have at least 2 stocks left. 80/20 I stand by that.

 

[Teczer0]

Wow, marth AUTO loses vs sheik on FD. If the skill is even, the sheik will have at least 2 stocks left. 80/20 I stand by that.

AUTO?

Watch m2k play on FD vs sheiks.

 

[hamonyou]

i really just need to be able to do it on luigi and probably fox

 

[Smoke and smash]

AUTO?

Watch m2k play on FD vs sheiks.

EVEN skill. EVEN. EVEN. EVEN skill. =)

Lets watch mango and then we'll have irrefutable proof that puff is best character in the game!

 

[Teczer0]

EDIT: Ummm watch m2k fight a top level sheik?

Wtf I didn't say go watch m2k fight Inui.

Watch him fight chillin/KDJ whatever.

 

[Smoke and smash]

CG , tilts, fairs., needles, game.

 

[Teczer0]

A) Sheik CANNOT CG marth UNLESS marth DIs away. Or if Marth gets grabbed at 0%.

B) A large portion of high level marths rely on their ground game and CC VERY often. Sheik tilting randomly means.... she'll get grabbed most likely.

C) I hope you're not saying just do a bunch of fairs......

D) Needles aren't effective in close proximity. Its main use is probably going to used to draw marth towards her. Aerial needles are a lot weaker since FD has no platforms. Aerial needle grab isn't very reliable unless you're using it as a counter attack.

Sheik's SH takes way too long for that to be effective as an option to just randomly throw out all the time.

 

[Smoke and smash]

No person, no.

CG goes in to tilts. Which lead to fairs, which lead to edgeguarding (with needles). This setup is just too easy, and it's soooo effective.

 

[Teczer0]

Unless you grabbed marth at like high percent they aren't going to fly off the stage where you can use such a linear strategy.

Even if you grab marth high percent you could DI into the stage and get faired. Then just recover very fast and land before sheik has a chance to edgeguard you.

You could also avoid aerial needles while you are recovering by fast falling under them and then immediately use your double jump and up-b.

Also marth's setups combos just so you know are even EASIER.

Grab upthrow chase under sheik with SH up-airs and fairs.

If they air dodge chase them and regrab.

 

[ArcNatural]

What Tec is saying is that if M2k usually beats most of the best Sheiks (or keeps it close) on FD there is no real way the matchup can be close to 80-20. While I think the stage can be slightly worse than most of the Platform stages it's not because of the CG. Marth's upthrow/fthrow give Sheik just as many issues at low % on this stage as her throws do (save for the guaranteed high % dthrow fair).

Sheik's main advantage is while both characters do well in this matchup with CC at low %, Sheik has the projectile to force the approach more often and dash attack once you can't cc ruins Marth's DD game a bit on FD since that's really fast and one of the better openers on this stage.. I would think the match up would be 65-35 at the worst for Sheik. Almost all other neutral stages the advantages are 55-45 at best for most of them.

 

[Teczer0]

I hate talking percentages.

Its just so biased and imo its difficult to come to an agreement when it comes to match up percentages.

I do agree that Sheik has an advantage though. Definitely not an auto counter though.

Not like CPing roy to Mute City as peach bad anyway.

And thanks Arcnatural

 

[Smoke and smash]

Referencing m2k when it comes to character matchups is just silly. He could probably 3 stock you guys with pichu if you were sheik.


I would love to argue some more, but I can see where this is going. Anyway, I'm gonna stick with my biased 80/20 ratio, and you guys can keep eating your spoon fed information.

 

[-ACE-]

I bet this guy is a Marth main with a friend who plays Sheik

 

[Smoke and smash]

=) Funny stuff. But I'm a falco main. And my friends play marth/falcon.

 

[Teczer0]

I got fairly close to beating m2k in a few games in tourney a few times.

In any case I'm talking from experience fighting marths as sheik and fighting sheiks as marth.

Tbh you sound like the one with fed info.

Also I could reference others I just chose m2k cuz when I think of high level marth he comes to mind and he is more than well known.

 

[Smoke and smash]

I got fairly close to beating m2k in a few games in tourney a few times.

In any case I'm talking from experience fighting marths as sheik and fighting sheiks as marth.

Tbh you sound like the one with fed info.

I mean I could reference others I just chose m2k cuz when I think of high level marth he comes to mind.

Why? When I think of high level shiek, m2k comes to mind.

 

[Teczer0]

So you're just backing up my use of referencing m2k as a marth player to watch?

In any case, unless you tell us legitimate reasons why the match up is so lob-sided on FD not many people are going to believe you.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Lol, don't put words in my mouth. I said when I think of high level sheik, m2k comes to mind. I just mean that I affiliate shiek with m2k more than marth (possible because of brinstar) M2k shouldn't be referenced in matchups because he is on a higher level than most of us, to the point where whatever he uses, that character is favored to win versus "X" variable.

 

[Teczer0]

Sure whatever.

In any case I can just use HBK and Reno as a reference.

Anyway referencing aside there is still very little reason to believe that sheik can beat marth almost as bad as she can beat pichu on FD.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Whats funny is that I just found a video of YOUR sheik nearly jv 4 stocking a marth on fd.

 

[Teczer0]

Whats funny is that I just found a video of YOUR sheik nearly jv 4 stocking a marth on fd.

Who rofl.

I hope you aren't going to Oorah.....

 

[Smoke and smash]

you vs tecnine.

Irony, no?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

m2k plays this game the way it should be played. watch m2k's marth vs kdj's sheik. its a hard match up, both players know what they are doing, but its not a complete counter.

if you want to go argue about how bad sheik ***** marths at YOUR level of play, go ahead. but when you go on smashboards and start telling a lot good players that they are wrong and you are right (with basically nothing supporting your argument), you just come out like a **** and a noob.

 

[Teczer0]

Well at least you picked a video thats not Oorah LOL.

I mean at this point I can say a bunch of stuff but you don't know how me and my brother are so I doubt you'd believe me.

In any case I have a bad habit of putting up vids where I ***** my brother's face off. So I guess I just put that up there.

But he has gotten much closer than that vs my sheik with his marth.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Go away sveet. Play your brawl or whatever it is that you do.

teczero- MY level of play? Judging by your vids, you aren't better than me. Don't worry I'll be attending some upcoming tourneys and we'll let my ranking do the talking for me.

 

[Shadow Huan]

The Sheik match-up for Marth is dumb really.

It really comes down to who's got better timing/skill/tech chasing/ prediction.

If Sheik can continue to bait Marth into wiffing attacks then invading his zone with a lot of gay **** and uses needles wisely than Sheik will usually win.

For instance, all of Sheiks tilts can lead into a Fair, which sends Marth (and all the others) flying at an awkward angle depending on when it connects. this is a severe problem for Marth especially, but I've taken a Fair with Jiggs on FD and not made it back.

However if Marth spaces properly and plays defensively until an opening appears then punishes the crap out of Sheik with whatever works best (Take your pick), then its really just about even. I'd say 60-40 Sheik?

But yeah as a Marth player, Sheik really is kinda gay.

FD is better for Sheik too IMO. I take Sheiks to YS or Stadium when I can. Platforms help a bit.

just my $0.02

 

[Teczer0]

Just so you know smoke and smash I NEVER brought your level of play into the arguement.......

I mean I've played with the best of Tristate. You can judge me however you please I really don't care of your views are about me.

Anyway please do come to tournies. I'm not even trying to be a **** or anything.

If you live in Jersey there is a tourney in south jersey this weekend just you know ^_^.

 

[Smoke and smash]

So the smash community does have intelligent people. I agree with you shadow and we need more contributions like your on topics like these. YS and FoD are always nice when your marth IMO.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Teczero... have we played?

I got beaten to a pulp by a Sheik at the last MM lol...

also my last post still stands...

why don't you both come up here to Mass? We have some tournies, when the lazy *** people around here get them going

@ smoke and smash: thanks XD. I usually ban FoD though (unless I'm playing a Flacon or Sheik), the moving platforms mess with me.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Just so you know smoke and smash I NEVER brought your level of play into the arguement.......

I mean I've played with the best of Tristate. You can judge me however you please I really don't care of your views are about me.

Anyway please do come to tournies. I'm not even trying to be a **** or anything.

If you live in Jersey there is a tourney in south jersey this weekend just you know ^_^.

Is that so? I have to meet my probation officer on saturday. Link me to the tourney please, errr...nevermind I'll find it on here if it's listed. Oh and thank you for clarifying, you are a pretty decent player I might add. Better than average easily. And I know you aren'trying to be a ****. Smashers ALWAYS want more attendance at tournies, that's just how we are.

 

[Smoke and smash]

Teczero... have we played?

I got beaten to a pulp by a Sheik at the last MM lol...

also my last post still stands...

why don't you both come up here to Mass? We have some tournies, when the lazy *** people around here get them going

@ smoke and smash: thanks XD. I usually ban FoD though (unless I'm playing a Flacon or Sheik), the moving platforms mess with me.

I was at SNES dude. That was my first tourney ever and I got owned by cort =(. I'm putting that work in though, that **** won't happen again. I also will never hit the bong before a tourney ever again. It didn't help me one bit.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Indeed. Too bad that Brawl is still taking up a lot of space and possible players.

Anyways, my advice to handle Sheik is to either get really good in the match-up ala Ken (When he was playing.) or pick up a character who can handle Sheik. Fox or Sheik?

*edit* just to let y'all know how broken my stuff is, I sometimes fare better with Mewtwo against sheik than with Marth . Depends on the Sheik.

If we are going to start talking about how to beat Sheik with Marth than I'm in lol...

@smoke and smash: Did we meet? I was there. One of the many Black Marths, but one of the more decent ones if you played me when I was fresh @ the beggining of the day.

 

[Teczer0]

So the smash community does have intelligent people. I agree with you shadow and we need more contributions like your on topics like these. YS and FoD are always nice when your marth IMO.

Dude you aren't helping your cause. This guy just said the match up is 60-40.

Just give us reasons. Like don't just say stuff and expect me to believe you.

The Sheik match-up for Marth is dumb really.

It depends really I mean personally I love it. I think its a matter of opinion.

It really comes down to who's got better timing/skill/tech chasing/ prediction.

This sounds like the deciding factor for better players rather than how a match up is decided.

You listed basic skills needed to play the game.

If Sheik can continue to bait Marth into wiffing attacks then invading his zone with a lot of gay **** and uses needles wisely than Sheik will usually win.

I mean if you get a marth playing wildly and just throwing out attacks... you'll probably win even without zoning.

Just CC into everything.

Marth's game is far better than just throwing out attacks for no reason.

For instance, all of Sheiks tilts can lead into a Fair, which sends Marth (and all the others) flying at an awkward angle depending on when it connects. this is a severe problem for Marth especially, but I've taken a Fair with Jiggs on FD and not made it back.

All of sheik's tilts can combo into fair yes....

It doesn't spell death for marth unless you get hit at a high percent.

Just DI away to get as far away from sheik as possible (At low-mid percents)

At high percents just DI up and towards sheik. The trajectory really isn't that awkward unless you DI down and a direction.

However if Marth spaces properly and plays defensively until an opening appears then punishes the crap out of Sheik with whatever works best (Take your pick), then its really just a
bout even. I'd say 60-40 Sheik?

Well this is marth's game. I mean.. its not fullproof but a very general way of stating marth's game.

But yeah as a Marth player, Sheik really is kinda gay.

*shrugs*

FD is better for Sheik too IMO. I take Sheiks to YS or Stadium when I can. Platforms help a bit.

just my $0.02

Personally I think FD is marth's best stage. I guess its arguable but you really aren't taking anything away from marth while taking sheik's platform games completely away from her.

I think the match is still in her favor though.... just not complete counter......

Shadowball2 - Probably not seeing as how I never went to a MM =(.

Maybe Reno?

Smoke and smash - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241942

 

[Smoke and smash]

I don't remember much sorry man. I just remember that I lost to cort 2nd round. And after that I was so depressed and pissed off that I lost to this horrid ice climbers, a chick player actually. I was playing off all ****ing weekend, the competitive atmosphere completely kicked my ***. I'm used to just chilling with a bong or pipe in a chill atmosphere and taking a hit between every game.