why doesnt wolf suck?

[Shears]

ive heard that wolf is supposed to be great. people are trying to put him top tier but none of the pros use him and none of the pros recommend him. my experiences playing wolves i wouldnt even consider him good nevermind great, but i want to get the opinion of wolf mains. i watched the vids of germ and lucien, they were impressive but not spectacular. watching their vids and assuming any good wolf could play like them i would put them high tier at best but not top which seems to be where some people believe he belongs. so... what makes wolf so good?

dont flame me, im not trying to insult wolf im trying to see if you can defend him. if there is a post like this, dont be a *** and burn me, just direct me to the thread. i use metaknight, if that will help in any explanations. ive considered trying wolf out but i dont want to waste my time if he sucks.

 

[dream theater]

I just watched Germ's vid, I wasn't impressed at all.

Wolf is actually pretty quick, and his moves are strong. He's not a lightweight (not that that matters).

 

[Fatalized]

I think that Wolf is a starter character...for noobs i think...
then its Fox and Falco is for advance players ha thats how i picture wolf

 

[adumbrodeus]

Don't think he's top tier but...

He's got a lot of powerful high priority moves.

His f-smash has almost no start-up time, impressive range, and quite damaging.

His down-smash is near universally considered the best of any of the space animals.

He's certainly not invincable, but he does have some major advantages.

 

[Koskinator]

I think that Wolf is a starter character...for noobs i think...
then its Fox and Falco is for advance players ha thats how i picture wolf

This coming from a Marth player? lulz

 

[Ghost07]

Wolf isn't as good as people say he is, but he definitly good. An don't even worry about a brawl tier list...lol.

And to fatalized, wolf is definitly the hardest out of the spacies to get kills on better players.

 

[Sean²]

I think that Wolf is a starter character...for noobs i think...
then its Fox and Falco is for advance players ha thats how i picture wolf

lol, marth.

Wolf is an underdog character, much like sonic. You can't just pick up and play him once or twice and be pretty good *cough* pit *cough*

 

[Juggalo]

Defending one of my mains

Wow, so much unlove for wolf. But its about time to defend him.

Wolf doesn't suck for a number of reasons. His shine has invincibility frames, not to mention that if you short hop it, the opponent lands the right distance away (and you land) right into Fsmash range. If you're a heavy shine user, with the multiple decline of knockback, it makes it much easier to do the nair->shine->downsmash.

Wolf has good priority

This one might seem like a simple reason, but here it goes: Wolf has both a projectile and a reflector. (This may not sound like much, but the only other characters in the game with both of these are the spacies, mario, pit, and rob. Only ness if you count his baseball bat as a reflector.)

Wolf has a slow land speed, but functions in the air like a normal character, so the people you play against probably can't even tell that you're playing one of the slower characters in the game.

If you fair immediately after shorthopping, it doesn't have landing lag. This move isn't the greatest for percentage, but its definitely a kill move.

Running turnaround short-hop bair off the edge to intercept ftw.



Things I don't like about wolf:

His recovery makes it where you can't venture too far off the stage to intercept if you plan on living, unless you use his bair. its slow startup/ending time makes it where you can go a bit further with it and still survive.

His downtilt is useless in my opinion. It has just as fast of a startup time as his downsmash.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

wolf is broken

 

[Shears]

Wow, so much unlove for wolf. But its about time to defend him.

Wolf doesn't suck for a number of reasons. His shine has invincibility frames, not to mention that if you short hop it, the opponent lands the right distance away (and you land) right into Fsmash range. If you're a heavy shine user, with the multiple decline of knockback, it makes it much easier to do the nair->shine->downsmash.

Wolf has good priority

This one might seem like a simple reason, but here it goes: Wolf has both a projectile and a reflector. (This may not sound like much, but the only other characters in the game with both of these are the spacies, mario, pit, and rob. Only ness if you count his baseball bat as a reflector.)

Wolf has a slow land speed, but functions in the air like a normal character, so the people you play against probably can't even tell that you're playing one of the slower characters in the game.

If you fair immediately after shorthopping, it doesn't have landing lag. This move isn't the greatest for percentage, but its definitely a kill move.

Running turnaround short-hop bair off the edge to intercept ftw.



Things I don't like about wolf:

His recovery makes it where you can't venture too far off the stage to intercept if you plan on living, unless you use his bair. its slow startup/ending time makes it where you can go a bit further with it and still survive.

His downtilt is useless in my opinion. It has just as fast of a startup time as his downsmash.

this is what i was looking for, but his recovery is better than falcos and i thought (might be wrong) his upB has more distance than foxs. im also wondering what are his best KOs, just fooling around with him and playing wolf noobs, they dont kill. IMO falco is the best of the 3, his recoverys the worst, but all his other abilities make up for it.

"wolf is broken"? thats the worst answer ive ever heard. its like saying "because" when someone says "why?". i wanna slap you. no character in the game is broken. if your arguement is wolf is good then say it and explain it, dont say hes broken and end your stance there. moron

 

[Koskinator]

The reason Wolfs recovery is *** as compared to Fox and Falcos is because after Wolfs Up+B he cant DI in any direction for quite some time. So basically you want to sweet spot the edge or get right on the stage or else, chances are, your gonna fall to your death.

 

[snadmonkey]

Pfft, only reason falco can compete with the big dogs is his chain grab. Everything else is just mediocre. Wolf is good for having a good range/speed/ko ground game and air game. Bair/fair, and fsmash/AAA combo/dsmash/upsmash. He also has a very good defensive game with laser and the invis frame reflector. His abilitity to do several moves into a shield and get outside of grab range makes up for his slow run speed. His recovery isn't to bad once u get to know him, it does get good distance and I'm reliable enough I have on trouble going way out to get someone, or attempting a downspike.

Sure wolf doesn't have the best air game or ground game etc. Its the fact that he can do all of these effectively that let him adapt mid game to opposing strats. With easy punish moves in all areas it makes for a good char to utilize all aspects, instead of doing something like d air with warior 100 times.

 

[WolfCypher]

Actually, I agree with Shears. I main Wolf (and Pit, screw the rules I have 2 mains), and I can see Wolf being in the high tier instead of top tier. He has awesome attacks, but his recovery will always be the biggest hinderance. Well, he has great ground and aerials, his grab attack is abusable, his throws are decent, he has a surprisingly great reflector, his Blaster has its definite uses, and 2 of his 3 taunts are killer...just make it back to the stage or you're screwed.

His best KO moves are his Fsmash (the 2nd hit), his Dsmash (the 1st hit), his Bair. 2nd best (semi-KO moves) include his Ftilt, his B>, and his B/\ (sorta).

 

[The GERM]

Wolf in a nutshell

Wolf Pros:
1) Heavy as fu**
2) Great close range game
3) All his smashes kill and are very quick
4) Lazzzzzzzzzzzzzerzzzzzzzzz are annoying making it easy to frustrate people and limit the opponent's approach options drastically.
5) His air game is insane. Spacing with back airs works too well seeing as to how he can short hop back air then jump again before hitting the ground. At low percents his f-air combos into shine/d-smash/u-tilt. Neutral air works really well out of shield, when hitting with the first few frames it has good knockback. D-air is quite situational and not really necessary most of the time. Not to mention back air and f-air are good killers. Up-air works great when falling with it through platforms.
6) Since all of Wolf's smashes (especially d-smash) come out insanely fast, as well as his aerials, this gives him so many different options out of shield, such as d-smash out of shield and quick SH F-airs or even jabs, making it difficult to pressure Wolf to stay in his shield.
7) Wolf's forward-B cancel makes it possible to recovery from ridiculous distances
8) Wolf's d-throw kills nicely from edges. If an opponent is grabbed off the ledge, he won't be able to tech the down throw.
9) Forward-B through ledges is ridiculous useful and is also useful when using it as a ground attack when predicting when your opponent is going to short hop, also a killer.
10) Good priority
11) His up taunt is ****

Wolf Cons:
1) The big con I see with Wolf is the following: Every single gay thing found so far i.e: 3D's chain grab, Falco's chain grab, Falco's lazer lock, Sheik's f-tilt combos, ZSS semi-infinite, IC's chain grabs, all work on Wolf!! Of course all of these are quite easily avoided, just don't play like a ******, and stay on your toes.
2) His recovery has limited angles making it difficult to recover from below
3) His tilts are mediocre at best, his best tilt being f-tilt, good to space with at close ranges with decent knockback. D-tilt is pretty much useless, U-tilt is ok to follow up a f-air and when opponents are desending but there are better options.

This is Wolf in a nutshell, take it for what it is.

-GERM

 

[Shears]

alright well thanks for all the tips. i tried him out. it felt like i was playing a slower but heavier and more powerful diddy kong (no that wouldnt be donkey kong). i like the faster lighter characters more, so i think ill stay with diddy as my second and MK as my main. i still dont see him top tier, but ill give him high tier, the shine, laser, and quick smashes are clutch. i dont like his recovery, tilts, or aerials (in comparison to MK and diddy).

well good luck everyone with wolf, maybe ill play some of you at tournaments.

btw if your opponent is incredibly stupid, like some noob on wifi or a scrub at some local tourney, wolf can chaingrab at low percents with his dthrow. its incredibly easy to DI from and walk out of because wolf has a slow dash, but if theyre stupid, its worth a shot, get some free 40% damage and look sweet. didnt know who knew that but i thought id throw it in.

 

[PK-ow!]

lol, marth.

Wolf is an underdog character, much like sonic. You can't just pick up and play him once or twice and be pretty good *cough* pit *cough*

Different characters are intuitive for different people.

The only thing we may be noticing is that the demographic of people-who-play-smash-and-probably-are-competitive-gamers predicts for certain characters being more transparent to the intuition than others.

I personally couldn't make sense of Pit. He seems by no means noob-friendly to me.

Lucas however was complete cheese in the post-release frenzy.

@Juggalo: Are you aware of alternate Wolf Flash inputs? I think those can get you back to ground from pretty far.

 

[dr0go]

sometimes at low percents you can chain a Fsmash to a Dtilt but it depemds on who you are playing.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

germ utilt is actually a kill move, it is only a little bit weaker than usmash. If someone is on a platform above you and you utilt it kills earlier than usmash.

 

[Mizar]

germ utilt is actually a kill move, it is only a little bit weaker than usmash. If someone is on a platform above you and you utilt it kills earlier than usmash.

That depends on the move usage. If both still unused, U-smash is definately stronger.
But if your opponent has like, 200+% (if that happens you're doing something wrong lol) u-tilt would be a killer too. But it doesn't really matter, the other options you have are much better anyway, it is probably just situational.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wolf is basically a horizontal killer. F-smash and d-smash are fast and can be unpredictable because of that. Plus, the d-smash can take out most opponents with ease once their damage exceeds 100%. F-air and u-air are handy vertical killers too. U-smash isn't that strong, but it can still rack up damage to foes.

 

[Juggalo]

@Juggalo: Are you aware of alternate Wolf Flash inputs? I think those can get you back to ground from pretty far.

If you're talking about cancelling wolf's forward B to get the forward distance recovery, then yes, but I haven't got the timing down for it at all so I haven't tried it during serious gameplay.

If you've got any tips on it, I'd be willing to listen.

 

[Ookami-kun]

As soon as you hit Forward-B quickly count 1... 2 then hit B.

 

[x9whitey9x]

Wouldn't Wolf's dair be a kill move too? Or is it too slow, making the meteor smash effect worthless?

 

[One_With_Sumthing]

Wouldn't Wolf's dair be a kill move too? Or is it too slow, making the meteor smash effect worthless?

Meteor smash effect =/= kill move.

 

[x9whitey9x]

Thanks. I'll remember that.

 

[chaos_Leader]

Wolf's awesomeness is exaggerated. Wolf has an abysmal recovery, he cannot jump off the edge and pursue his opponent without a lot of risk to his own survival. All one has to do to kill Wolf is to knock him off the edge and hit him away with a pursuit move. It is true that Wolf is easier to pick up and play, but he is also very tricky to master, especially with his edgeguard and pursuit game. I can attest to that since my Master of Disaster according to my data is Wolf.

Btw, his D-air does kill, it's just a little tricky to land

 

[Chris Lionheart]

I don't see why Wolf wouldn't be considered one of the best characters in the game. I just got my Wii a couple days ago and already (after a lot of experimenting) Wolf quickly became my main.

He is just insane.... his speed, power, priority, defensive options.... wow. I'm not even a great player and I feel like I am a juggernaut.

His laser is very useful as a bit of extra ranged damage or to frustrate your opponent during his approaches. I don't spam the laser but I still get a lot of use of it by using it as a filler move. It even does a melee hit if used up close.

His reflector is useful in improving your defensive game... I personally haven't mastered it yet but it gives the character another great defensive option.

He has a great set of powerful smashes. F-Smash is insane. D-Smash is broken. Up-Smash isn't the best but I use it to set foes up for an aerial or two.

His tilts are better than most of these people claim. F-Tilt can be killer at high percentages (that and it looks awesome when successful). D-Tilt.... well yeah its useless. U-Tilt is awesome. I use it as a quick way to start an aerial or even finish someone off at high enough percents.

Wolf's aerials are beastly. F-Air hits hard and fast and kills vertically (which at high percents is difficult to counter). B-Air is an awesome finisher (I would go as far to say its his best finisher). U-Air is a good vertical finisher and a fairly good juggle move. N-Air isn't great but it isn't the worst N-Air. D-Air is an awesome high priority hit (but not a great finisher). Its useful because it knocks foes into the air (possibly allowing for additional aerials).

Another great thing about Wolf is that he is hard to predict. He has so many KO'ing options because he is, simply put, a beast in pretty much every area. He has a strong ground game, a strong air game and a strong defensive game. He can KO both vertically and horizontally (and excels at both).

I'll admit his recovery isn't the best (and is absolutely horrible in the Skyworld stage). It does get the job done though and both his b> and b-up can be used offensively (albeit b-up is not very useful offensively).


I would like to master this character, and see what he can really do.

 

[Juggalo]

As soon as you hit Forward-B quickly count 1... 2 then hit B.

Wish it was that easy for me to pull off, heh. I took it into training mode and practiced around with it for like 20 minutes and I'm still not consistent enough with it to try it in any real-game situation.

Oh well, guess I'm one of those Wolf players who doesn't illusion cancel.

 

[Chexr]

Wolfs only downfall is his horrible recovery and otherwise is excellent in every way. Bair is godly and almost like jigglypuffs from melee. Very fast and powerful smashes. Great jab thats fast and does good damage, decent tilts. If you're having trouble killing someone tricky you can always fall back on fair at around 150%. Which isnt that uncommon for any character when you're playing people with good DI. And he's pretty mobile in the air and with his roll.

I'm not sure how you could claim he's not a great character, rather just bad people playing him.

 

[Undrdog]

lol, marth.

Wolf is an underdog character, much like sonic. You can't just pick up and play him once or twice and be pretty good *cough* pit *cough*

If you think n00b Pit's are "pretty good" then something is dreadfully wrong.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If you think n00b Pit's are "pretty good" then something is dreadfully wrong.

I believe he means reletive to other characters.