Why does everyone say Sonic is low tier?

[MM125]

Please explain.

 

[goodoldganon]

-not very heavy
-hard to land KO moves
-bad priority
-mediocre specials

He is fun, and probably not low tier material, but he has some glaring problems against the projected higher characters.

 

[MM125]

Uhhh, no.

So... Zero lag, faster than an F-0 car, combo potential as good as Sheik or MK, better FS than a Landmaster... I prefer a reply from someone who actually knows something about Sonic, not someone who tried him for 5 minutes and gave up.

 

[Dragonbreath]

So... Zero lag, faster than an F-0 car, combo potential as good as Sheik or MK, better FS than a Landmaster... I prefer a reply from someone who actually knows something about Sonic, not someone who tried him for 5 minutes and gave up.

Well, there's the pot calling the kettle black.

Sonic does not have zero lag, as you put it. His up smash and Down smash, while unique with a number of useful features, do take a moment or two to get going. Combo potential is good, but this game has a much lower focus on comboing than melee. And although his final smash is very easily the best in the game, it makes no difference to the teir list because items aren't allowed in tournaments.

Besides, priority, range and killing power do matter. These are three areas that Sonic is very weak in. His speed and comboing can make up for it, but only if the player using him is very, very good.

Sheesh.

 

[Umby]

So... Zero lag, faster than an F-0 car, combo potential as good as Sheik or MK, better FS than a Landmaster... I prefer a reply from someone who actually knows something about Sonic, not someone who tried him for 5 minutes and gave up.

He only has zero lag on his Nair. Everything else either comes out quick and lags afterwards, or lags beforehand and comes out quick.

Being faster than an F-0 vehicle with a fourth of the priority means he will lose in a head on collision.

No one really takes Final Smashes into consideration when we're talking about the competitive nature of his playstyle.

Combo potential is not as good as Sheik or MK. What are you smoking? Sheik's tilts are still godly, and MK's attacks are ranged mixed in with fast hits which are coupled on top of multiple jumps. Sonic has no way of comboing that good.

Sonic is not going to be that high on the tier list because he has so many disadvantages against most other characters, but he has enough speed and offensive potential that he won't be that low either.

 

[Ereki]

Dragonbreath and Teh Umby practically hit the nail on the head, to be honest.

If not properly timed, or executed, Sonic can be easily punished. For example, just using his Homing Attack [Neutral B], canceled or not, if you miss your target, or hit the ground, there's lag up until you're free to attack or air dodge, but in that time, you're just being called to be punished.

Other attacks that go about this sequence if you land mid-attack, are his U-Air [slightly], F-Air [Slightly], and D-Air [Don't over use this one]. As for OTG [On the Ground] smashes, there's startup lag from the U-Smash and D-Smash.

Not only this, but majority of his attacks don't have that much priority at all. I can't tell you the numerous amount of times that my special attack was canceled because of another character's priority.

And...yes, although Sonic does have a superb combo ability, it can easily go overlooked in comparison to MetaKnight, and Sheik. If you've fought a Sheik player, they can constantly use F-Tilt, and knock them up with U-Tilt in the same combo. As for Metaknight, they can just hold A while you're trapped, and then they can probably use any smash they desire if you're unwary.

Sonic is a sweeper character for a reason. His speed is one of his better qualities, and your best bet is to use it to your advantage, by initiating Air combinations early in. But, even with a great aerial game, that's not enough to consider him a higher tier character.

But, look at it this way. If you were to actually do well and get far with Sonic, you can say to yourself that you've beaten characters tiers way above yours.

 

[DDM]

So... Zero lag, faster than an F-0 car, combo potential as good as Sheik or MK, better FS than a Landmaster... I prefer a reply from someone who actually knows something about Sonic, not someone who tried him for 5 minutes and gave up.

All true.

The speed is to die for, and you can needle the holy hell out of your opponents with the quick attacks. But in the time it takes to land the big blow and put your opponent away, your opponents can rack the damage on you. I main Sonic and I don't play as anyone else competitively, and that is the one frustrating thing about him.

 

[J18]

and generally, if two complete newbs to smash played it the first time, chances are that the person who picks toon link is going to beat the person who picks sonic.
tiers aren't based on the skill of the person playing the sonic, so even if the greatest brawl player in the world played sonic, he still wouldn't be top tier

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Basically all of the reasons have already been stated and hopefully he will make Mid Tier, however I do believe Sonic has a good chance to make it to High Tier over the course of a few months when we see a pro master his speed, combo and gimping abilities. I am the best player I personally know and even though I may not always win with Sonic (although I win 90% of the time) its often due to placement errors and other mistakes. Its easy to make combo, KO, and dodge errors (to name a few) with any character but because Sonic is so fast and requires more individual hits than any other character in the game, a Sonic player is roughly x2 more likely to make errors than most other characters. In the hands of a pro I would like to see how well he could be utilized.

 

[gamer4life01]

I main Marth and Wario, so you can imagine it took me a bit to get used to Sonic's low KO power. I have found that if your opponent is not alert, you can have a field day with his speed in keeping your opponent guessing. I've always incorporated a lot of grabbing into my play style in melee, and with all my Captain Falcon grabbing experience, Sonic was a breeze to get the hang of in that area.... then I figured out the reverse grab and he's become much more valuable. So he's now my third main and I've found he can juggle people pretty well. And his invincibility frame during his over b helps against projectiles, and his recovery is amazing as well. Hyphen smashing is a big plus as his up a smash gives multiple hits so if the first one misses if they get to close they'll get hit anyway. One rumor I have yet to test is whether or not his dair can halt momentum from a big hit and keep you from flying off the stage... so high tier? Probably not, but I expect him to be pretty high nonetheless.

 

[Lord_Naomasa]

I have noticed that I either easily kill a sonic player or its one of the hardest fights I have. Sonic is unique in that he has so much potential its ridiculous. Once sonic is close to being mastered (or as close as one can get) he is devestating. Until then, he is weak. Sonics potential is probably the biggest of any character (plus metaknight).

 

[Lord_Naomasa]

Skilled sonic player = owns

Anyone else = will get owned

 

[Boxob]

Skilled sonic player = owns

Anyone else = will get owned

This is so pointless.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

The character with the biggest potential is Snake, since there's like infinite possibilities to what he can do with mind games etc.

Sonic actually doesn't have many options. Most of his attacks involve curling up into a ball and spinning, and most of them are very predictable or have obvious startup time. A lot of his attacks have low priority and while he may run fast, he is not nearly as fast all around as Fox or Metaknight.

His mobility is definitely good though, it allows him to function as his own projectile if the player knows what they're doing. But then again, most good opponents in Brawl will be playing defensive. Once they figure out that Sonic isn't as scary as he looks with all that zooming around, they'll sit back and analyse your playing style in depth and soon come up with ways to shut down your approaches, knowing that the only real KO moves Sonic has are either slow or situational.

As you can imagine, Lucario can be quite a threat to Sonic, as can anyone with high-priority moves that activate quickly and stay out for a long time.

 

[Umby]

I'm writing the name of this thread in my Death Note.

 

[Lord_Naomasa]

ok, SNake is also there for potential but you are wrong with sonic. The sheer amout of approaches he has is astonishing. His combos and follow ups are splendid.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

ok, SNake is also there for potential but you are wrong with sonic. The sheer amout of approaches he has is astonishing. His combos and follow ups are splendid.

You mean like stare down the opponent for a while then run at them. Go for a dash attack, running grab or running up smash. Retreat, rinse, repeat, etc?

If you try to use Sonic's spin attack specials to approach, you only limit yourself even more, since all of those can be seen coming a mile away.

Aerially, he's not so impressive either. Nair is probably his best bet for an approach and it hardly has any priority to speak of. You can try to use Dair to come down from above, but most opponents will just dodge and punish the lag.

One thing I do like about Sonic's approach is that he has great traction. So you can stop running any time you want almost instantly. However, this isn't exactly much use when your opponent realises that even if you hit them with anything out of a run, they don't have to worry about being KOed or even damaged much.

Combo ability...hmm, he is one of the only characters in the game with real combos. However, most if not all of these combos come from his two spin attack specials, and both of those are slow and predictable and can be trumped by many high-priority attacks.

It's not that Sonic doesn't have enough options, it's just that he can't do all that much with the options that he does have, and his overall playing style is just incredibly unsafe and relies almost entirely on your opponent's perception, or lack of it.

 

[LuCKy]

So... Zero lag, faster than an F-0 car, combo potential as good as Sheik or MK, better FS than a Landmaster... I prefer a reply from someone who actually knows something about Sonic, not someone who tried him for 5 minutes and gave up.

i might make this my sig

lucky's sonic = ****

Anyone else = will get owned

lol......****

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

You mean like stare down the opponent for a while then run at them. Go for a dash attack, running grab or running up smash. Retreat, rinse, repeat, etc?

If you try to use Sonic's spin attack specials to approach, you only limit yourself even more, since all of those can be seen coming a mile away.

Aerially, he's not so impressive either. Nair is probably his best bet for an approach and it hardly has any priority to speak of. You can try to use Dair to come down from above, but most opponents will just dodge and punish the lag.

One thing I do like about Sonic's approach is that he has great traction. So you can stop running any time you want almost instantly. However, this isn't exactly much use when your opponent realises that even if you hit them with anything out of a run, they don't have to worry about being KOed or even damaged much.

Combo ability...hmm, he is one of the only characters in the game with real combos. However, most if not all of these combos come from his two spin attack specials, and both of those are slow and predictable and can be trumped by many high-priority attacks.

It's not that Sonic doesn't have enough options, it's just that he can't do all that much with the options that he does have, and his overall playing style is just incredibly unsafe and relies almost entirely on your opponent's perception, or lack of it.

I think the big mistake that Sonic players make is trying to initiate mind games. Sonic should NEVER stare down the opponent. In fact he should never stop moving unless he is spotting a counter. I have recently come to realize that one of Sonic's greatest weapons is his down grab. If done correctly it can act as a pseudo chain grab and has spike potential when near the edge... if that doesn't kill the opponent remember Sonic's probably the best **** gimper in the game.

 

[DDM]

I will grant that his speed and agility (not to mention the hype) lend Sonic to being a n00b character, but I've come across a few decent Sonic players in Anyone Mode, and we've had a ton of fun trying to outsmart each other. He probably is the most fun character to play as if you practice. Or maybe it's just me. :-D

 

[R4ZE]

there is no issue with standing still with sonic. If you look like a block of ice and then you speed off whenever your opponent comes in for the attack, it gives you a great opportunity to attack, because they have just attacked.

Even if they arent in a delay state, their mind doesent know what to do next, so either way you have em in a good spot to hit them.

Sonic can utilize his dodge to just evade attacks and then counter as well, but i wouldnt do this much because they could dodge and down smash and you will probobly get punished.

I think the most important thing with sonic, is to stay out of range of the enemies attacks, and then once they swing their weapon, swoop in so your not battling an attack for priority.

 

[CT Chia]

he can barely kill his opponent. thats why. his best killing move is his fsmash which has terrible range. i say hes mid tier though.

 

[FrostByte]

All of Sonic's aerials are laggy in some form and have terrible priority, when both aspects are compared to something like metaknight's. Sonic shouldn't always be running all over the place because running (unless you have the intention of retreating) only limits your options, makes you more predictable on approach.

His lack of KO potential is one of the most annoying aspects of his game. His moves are also relatively weak, a good combo will get you around 28% at most. His spindashes are more versatile as you'd think though. Good for camping against non-projectile characters.

 

[Majiin]

Sonic was just too rushed into the game imo, he didn't have as much time as the other characters to get the balance going.

 

[MIRAI87]

Sonic was just too rushed into the game imo, he didn't have as much time as the other characters to get the balance going.

I don't think that was a problem. I think the problem is that Sakurai took things into consideration that competitive players do not (items) into his sense of his balance.

Since his speed is absurd he can be an item hog and if he gets the final smash, you're dead. In a game with items, sonic is amazing. In a battle where there are none of these items to help you... you all know what happens.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I don't think that was a problem. I think the problem is that Sakurai took things into consideration that competitive players do not (items) into his sense of his balance.

Since his speed is absurd he can be an item hog and if he gets the final smash, you're dead. In a game with items, sonic is amazing. In a battle where there are none of these items to help you... you all know what happens.

With items and FS he is top tier lol, but I still believe he's mid tier without.

 

[MIRAI87]

With items and FS he is top tier lol, but I still believe he's mid tier without.

I hope/figure that's where he'd end up.

 

[Mada90]

Because that's what he is.

 

[FrostByte]

There are no tiers where items are concerned.

 

[R4ZE]

yup items is a dice rolling game.


Sonic is better with final smashes though, easy for him to obtain them and evade them as well. plus his FS is godly.

but seriously... FS can appear right on top of people, or pop up when people are off the side of the stage. its so dumb really.

its sad if he really considered items at all in the balancing of this game, but honestly i doubt he would be that stupid... afterall he did make smash brothers.

 

[Xtinction]

sonic sucks, nuff said.
but i still love him

 

[Adamated]

its sad if he really considered items at all in the balancing of this game, but honestly i doubt he would be that stupid...

Do you recall tripping?

 

[cobaltblue]

I don't think that was a problem. I think the problem is that Sakurai took things into consideration that competitive players do not (items) into his sense of his balance.

Since his speed is absurd he can be an item hog and if he gets the final smash, you're dead. In a game with items, sonic is amazing. In a battle where there are none of these items to help you... you all know what happens.

Nah, had to be rushed reasons. With all the detail Saki put in with other chars, I have a hard time believeing he wouldn't atleast have given sonic a different side-b or at the very least given them more distinct differences (ie. down-b having a higher prority or being able to deflect projectiles while charging).

 

[darkNES386]

People... sonic throws his body with just about every attack. And he's not heavy. So what do you expect for his priority? He's not totting a sword, he doesn't have a projectile... but... he IS raw speed and chaos. He's a pretty tough character to gimp too, with so many different ways to recover. I just needed to rant and get that out of my system. I feel better now =)

 

[R4ZE]

ya, and sonic is extremely hard to grab as well. abusing sonic's ability to avoid taking hits seems to work really well. sonic does have his good points that commonly get over-looked.

i guess its hard to tell because most of us dont play a non-sonic character and fight sonics often.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sonic isn't lightweight. Seriously, guys, stop saying that.

 

[Marie_54]

I'm writing the name of this thread in my Death Note.

QFW.

Seriously guys stop feeding the trolls let them die of starvation.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Please explain.

Well, it's partially because he sucks, but mainly because he sucks.

I wish people would just except this and move on already :x

 

[memphischains]

kill me

10 times death