Why do the majority of people here want a Melee 2.0?

[LavisFiend]

I need to know...I need to know...

Tell me baby girl cause I.NEED.TO.KNOW....

[/marc anthony reference]

Seriously, tell me something: Why do you care so much about Wavedashing, as well as the other advanced techs and if they make it in or not? This is BRAWL, not MELEE...

Furthermore, do you NOT know who is handling the game? We are talking about individuals who have clocked in over 10,000 Melee matches INDIVIDUALLY....

The game will be fine regardless. If the techs are removed, then what is your damage? Is it THAT scary to not be able to slide around and cut lag? Is it that scary to believe that, IF these techs are removed, that the Brawl team will find a way to make it better for everyone?

You can still be "pro" without wavedashing and L-canceling, as the whole premise of "being pro" comes from quick thinking and mindgames, as well as knowledge over which moves are better to use then another, and against what character and what time to use them, etc....

I hate that people are doubting Sakurai's image of Brawl because of their own selfish qualms. It is a friggen move, a move that is result of Melee's less than perfect physics system. Another is to shave lag with the press of the button. Whoop de FRIGGEN do!

From the looks of things, we already have a great game shaping up here. We even have a brand new technique, PLUS the characters seem to have a slightly toned up speed when it comes to attacks and jumps.

All I am getting at is this: F*ck Melee. Harsh thing to say, but I say F*ck it. Brawl is going to be 3 times better due to more time being put in to perfect it, PLUS we already have ourselves a baskin robbins amount of plausible characters to use, (as I have no doubt now that our roster will be at least around 38-40.)

You can sit there and whine and groan about the game if it dosen't have your precious wavedashing, but I say who cares? From what we have seen, this shows that Brawl is stepping up to overshadow Melee what with cutting down helpless frames and fixing small things such as ^Bing to a ledge grab and grabbing a ledge facing the opposite direction.

and if you are THAT **** distraught about the game not having "advanced techs," well then, when you get your copy of Brawl, go ahead and slave away to find another flaw of the physics system and abuse that.

This has been my rant regarding the matter, I don't give a crap if you heard this before, I really don't, because at this point of time, it needs to be stressed:

BRAWL IS NOT MELEE, AND MELEE IS NOT BRAWL!

 

[Drclaw411]

*slow clap*

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

*sigh* We just have to get ANOTHER one, these will just NOT die...

This one is quite harsh too.

 

[NES n00b]

Who is this majority you speak of?

It is mostly casuals and some infrequent tourney goers telling regular tourney goers to stop crying about depth being removed. You guys are the majority not the minority.

 

[streetsk8er158]

its been said before and you've said it again, but I never get tired of hearing it. LavisFiend ftw!

 

[Maricalistaro]

This put a smile on my face. Couldnt have said it better myself. I want brawl not melee 2.

 

[LavisFiend]

Who is this majority you speak of?

It is mostly casuals and some infrequent tourney goers telling regular tourney goers to stop crying about depth being removed. You guys are the majority not the minority.

The majority of "pros" here. I say "pros" because I am referring to those who believe they are because they can do the moves...

and of course, the ones who fret over the techniques being lost.

If you are not whining about it, I am not referring to you.

 

[Xanderous]

I just don't want it slowed down. I loved Melee's speed.

 

[LavisFiend]

I just don't want it slowed down. I loved Melee's speed.

I really don't think it will get all that slow personally. Faster attacks as well as faster jumps give me hope of a fast smash.

 

[BubbleShield]

All I am getting at is this: F*ck Melee. Harsh thing to say, but I say F*ck it.

Waaay ahead of you buddy

 

[NES n00b]

I really don't think it will get all that slow personally. Faster attacks as well as faster jumps give me hope of a fast smash.

Disconfirmed. Smashes are slower as well as the game so far. . . . . according to Gea who is reliable so yeah.

Don't complain about it, though. It is a new game and not Melee.

In all seriousness, speed and directional airdodging are my main concerns and I really do not complain. I mostly respond to threads and posts like these to show why we are concerend. Taking away depth is a bad thing. Sure, there could be more and Brawl and sure, it could be fine for all we know. All we know right now though, is that stuff that had depth like wavedashing, DJCs, and directional airdodges are gone while momentum based airdodging, footstool, gliding, and crawling.

We all do not know how it is going to turn out. I would suggest to wait, but why not debate while we wait?

Edit: I would buy a Melee two with added stuff, competative scene focused with techs and balance, with internet connections and stuff. I would also buy Brawl. XD

 

[skullkidd]

*slow clap*

Word.
But yeah, I hope the speed isn't toooo slow.

 

[Mama]

Well believe it or not its the scrubs that are so fixated on Wavedashing. They still think its what makes pros win so they like to entertain the idea of it not making it that would somehow even things out. From what I've seen, wavedashing aside, the majority of the advanced techniques will be carried over to Brawl but as I've said before its not only the techniques that make pros pros.

The players made Melee what it was and we'll be the ones to make Brawl into a deep fighter regardless of whatever advanced techniques are present in Melee. Brawl is likely going to change things up drastically but does that mean the Pros will be nerfed and scrubs and casuals will suddenly stand a better chance? Not at all.

You see, it will be the players who consider themselves pros or advanced players that will set the pace in Brawl. If someone is willing to learn whatever it takes to make their game better then they'll do so in Brawl with whatever Sakurai gives us.

On the other side if someone thinks that taking out the advanced techniques would make the game more balanced then they are the ones who are thinking Brawl will be Melee 2.0. The same game - the Wdash or whatever else scrubs/casuals/lazies find unfair. They probably wont bother pursuing whatever innovations are discovered in Brawl and in a way it will be Melee all over again but at the same time it will be a completely new game.

Thats really all there is to it. Its not the advanced techies that are thinking of a Melee 2.0. Its the people who want to do away with them or don't want to try to learn them. Like it or not the gap between skill levels will not shrink. And even if it does its only a matter of time before the people who try to discover things do and the people who refuse to learn things don't.

EDIT : Tiny font still hurts my eyes >.>

 

[Dogenzaka]

LavisFiend gets post of the century award.

Honestly, if you're "winning" at being a "pro" just because you use wavedashing and L-Canceling and other glitches of the sort, you're not a pro. And it worries you because if these techniques are gonna get taken out you just suck, or be on the same level as everyone else.

Melee had a 10 month development cycle. Brawl will have over 2 years. I think they know what they're doing.

Brawl is different from Melee as Melee is different from SSB64, if they were all the same, there'd be no need for sequels. If you want your precious, flawed, glitched physics engine, then by all means play Melee for the rest of your life.

I'm going to stick to Brawl.

Disconfirmed. Smashes are slower as well as the game so far. . . . . according to Gea who is reliable so yeah.

It's "disconfirmed" because ONE person testified so?

And the speed never was slow. Some people are just so used to canceling out the lag that they think the game needs to be at teleport speed to be at the same pace as Melee. I see it to be the same speed as Melee. >_>

 

[LavisFiend]

Disconfirmed. Smashes are slower as well as the game so far. . . . . according to Gea who is reliable so yeah.

Don't complain about it, though. It is a new game and not Melee.

In all seriousness, speed and directional airdodging are my main concerns and I really do not complain. I mostly respond to threads and posts like these to show why we are concerend. Taking away depth is a bad thing. Sure, there could be more and Brawl and sure, it could be fine for all we know. All we know right now though, is that stuff that had depth like wavedashing, DJCs, and directional airdodges are gone while momentum based airdodging, footstool, gliding, and crawling.

We all do not know how it is going to turn out. I would suggest to wait, but why not debate while we wait?

Edit: I would buy a Melee two with added stuff, competative scene focused with techs and balance, with internet connections and stuff. I would also buy Brawl. XD

Oh well. I should have elaborated more, as I was talking bout Link specifically. I figured his swipes were far more faster. XD

Anywho no big deal. I don't really care at all really, I just want MUH MEGAMAN!

You made a rhyme.

and your fears are well-placed, but like I said, you shouldn't be all that concerned...

We got ourselves turbo melee fans working on our game. XDDD

 

[Zek]

Because they're afraid of change. People who have invested thousands of hours into this game would gladly keep playing it for the rest of their lives, and the only reason they want a sequel is for new characters and features. I think the reality that hasn't sunk in for them yet is that Melee was not perfect. It was rushed to release and a lot of its long-term competitive playability was a fluke. Just because they've etched every minute detail directly into their brains for years doesn't mean any change to the physics will ruin the game. The reality is that 99% of Smash players are not so attached to crap like wavedashing and there's a ton of room for improvement of Melee's balance and general gameplay.

Personally I'm really looking forward to the changes. I definitely like the sound of increased freedom in aerial combat, and hopefully the characters will be balanced more thoroughly this time without any physics exploits getting in the way.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Because they're afraid of change.

That about sums it up in one sentence.

 

[NES n00b]

It's "disconfirmed" because ONE person testified so? Bull.

Yup, someone who is there at E 4 All right now. He is a tourney player he wouldn't just make **** up. No more crud. If you think wavedashing is removed because two guys testify to it who didn't go to E 4 All, but you think that it is bull **** for someone in E 4 All to say smashes are slower. Than bull ****. There is different speeds for each characters and all that but trends show that smashes get slower and slower which is not necessarily a bad thing, but whatever.

Also, lol, old advance tech users will still win without those things. Mindgames and game knoweldge mean nothing to you? They will know which characters movesets work and which doesn't. They will figure out new exploits. They will be able to out think you and use tatics that are more effective than yours. Either way, casuals will still be left in the dust.

Edit: Oh yeah, well you are afraid of sameness. Strawmens are fun.

 

[Takalth]

So basically, you just started another shallow anti-wavedash thread but used a title and introduction to mask it.
Furthermore, your question of "why" has been asked and answered many times. However, the discussions usually go like this (with your viewpoint being stated by person A).

Person A: Brings up a point.
lots of spam
Person B: Responds to point.
lots more spam
Person A: Repeats their point.
lots more spam
Person B: Responds to person A again
more spam
Person C: Repeats person A's point
more spam
Person B: Has lost all interest in trying.

The spam, of couse, isn't something you can avoid, but you really ought to look into people who have given intelligent responses to what you have said. There are quite a few.

 

[LavisFiend]

Well believe it or not its the scrubs that are so fixated on Wavedashing. They still think its what makes pros win so they like to entertain the idea of it not making it that would somehow even things out. From what I've seen, wavedashing aside, the majority of the advanced techniques will be carried over to Brawl but as I've said before its not only the techniques that make pros pros.

The players made Melee what it was and we'll be the ones to make Brawl into a deep fighter regardless of whatever advanced techniques are present in Melee. Brawl is likely going to change things up drastically but does that mean the Pros will be nerfed and scrubs and casuals will suddenly stand a better chance? Not at all.

You see, it will be the players who consider themselves pros or advanced players that will set the pace in Brawl. If someone is willing to learn whatever it takes to make their game better then they'll do so in Brawl with whatever Sakurai gives us.

On the other side if someone thinks that taking out the advanced techniques would make the game more balanced then they are the ones who are thinking Brawl will be Melee 2.0. The same game - the Wdash or whatever else scrubs/casuals/lazies find unfair. They probably wont bother pursuing whatever innovations are discovered in Brawl and in a way it will be Melee all over again but at the same time it will be a completely new game.

Thats really all there is to it. Its not the advanced techies that are thinking of a Melee 2.0. Its the people who want to do away with them or don't want to try to learn them. Like it or not the gap between skill levels will not shrink. And even if it does its only a matter of time before the people who try to discover things do and the people who refuse to learn things don't.

EDIT : Tiny font still hurts my eyes >.>

Your normal font hurts MY eyes. XD

but I agree with ya, at nearly every word...

except there are "advanced tech users" who are throwing a fit about them possibly being removed as well.

and those are the people, that I feel personally, are going to suck without them, as they base their whole game around them, but don't take in consideration the other elements necessary in order to be overall good at the game.

 

[KevinM]

Honestly, if you're "winning" at being a "pro" just because you use wavedashing and L-Canceling and other glitches of the sort, you're not a pro. And it worries you because if these techniques are gonna get taken out you just suck, or be on the same level as everyone else.

This single point made my eyes bleed... You don't become pro because of those two moves

I'm fairly neutral in the brawl situation but have some intelligence before you post about competitive melee please

 

[LavisFiend]

This single point made my eyes bleed... You don't become pro because of those two moves

I'm fairly neutral in the brawl situation but have some intelligence before you post about competitive melee please

He also said "other glitches of the sort."

 

[NES n00b]

He also said "other glitches of the sort."

Doesn't matter if he added other glitches of the sort. . . L cancel is not a glitch anyways. <_<

Advance tech users will still be better because they have one ability that casuals don't. Dedication to get better at this game no matter what they have to learn. Exploits, character movesets, and other stuff. Advance tech users will try to get better while casuals will not play so much to improve.

 

[KevinM]

He also said "other glitches of the sort."

You don't become a pro because of glitches or exploits period. Thats the point.

 

[Xengri]

The people "whining" about brawl are just grieving, in denial, or have a fear of change. Not all "advance players" are complaining about Brawl.

Besides no matter what happens or how much complaining there is on these boards, everyone here (except like 2 or 3) is going to buy Brawl anyway. Just give it sometime and eventually people will get over it.

Without a doubt I know that Brawl will have somethings that separate the casuals from the devoted, may not be what we're use to but there will be something. The people that put more time into the game and are more skilled/knowledgeable will always come out on top.

 

[wazgood]

the only reason i want wd in brawl is because im so used to moving around by airdodging

example: when i play soul calibur and streetfighter, i always try to walk around by blocking diagonally

otherwise im neutral

 

[Dogenzaka]

I think the reality that hasn't sunk in for them yet is that Melee was not perfect. It was rushed to release and a lot of its long-term competitive playability was a fluke.

Once again, true. It really was luck; the game only got, what? 10 months of development? And became one of the most popular games of last generation AND this generation. Some of it due to glitches found in its flawed physics system which might have been taken out had it had longer development time.

The reality is that 99% of Smash players are not so attached to crap like wavedashing and there's a ton of room for improvement of Melee's balance and general gameplay.

Amen.

Also, I believe it was Summer 2006 when Sakurai said that he was going to "moderate" the speed, and allow more freedom in aerial attacks, so why is everyone so surprised? lol.

He is a tourney player he wouldn't just make **** up.

The interweb isn't a truthful place. I'm not saying he's lying, but one person's testimony is not law, especially if they're just an anonymous entity that you think you know behind a computer. Maybe he couldn't pull it off, that doesn't mean something's been "deconfirmed".

If you think wavedashing is removed because two guys testify to it who didn't go to E 4 All

I never said it was or wasn't out. I just stress that I HOPE it's out.

There is different speeds for each characters and all that but trends show that smashes get slower and slower which is not necessarily a bad thing, but whatever.

Then perhaps he was using a slow character. One person's one test and one testimony of one event does not mean something is deconfirmed.

Oh yeah, well you are afraid of sameness.

I'm afraid of sameness? If I wanted the same bloody game, I'd play Melee. Change is good.

The glitches in Melee like wavedashing of the sort = snaking in Mario Kart.

Also, lol, old advance tech users will still win without those things.

I know this. God learn to read. I said SOME people who ONLY win because they KNOW THESE CHEAPASS TECHNIQUES. I very well KNOW there are ADVANCED players who can PLAY this game and WIN WITH or WITHOUT the glitches of MELEE.

You don't become pro because of those two moves

I F*CKING KNOW THAT.

I said "IF" you're winning at being a "PRO" BECAUSE YOU USE WAVEDASHING AND L-CANCELING AND OTHER GLITCHES OF THE SORT, YOU'RE NOT A PRO. THERE ARE PROS THAT DON'T USE THESE TECHNIQUES AND STILL WIN BECAUSE THEY ARE ACTUALLY GOOD AT THE GAME, BUT I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT GROUP OF GAMERS. HOLY ****.

 

[Zek]

Yup, someone who is there at E 4 All right now. He is a tourney player he wouldn't just make **** up. No more crud. If you think wavedashing is removed because two guys testify to it who didn't go to E 4 All, but you think that it is bull **** for someone in E 4 All to say smashes are slower. Than bull ****. There is different speeds for each characters and all that but trends show that smashes get slower and slower which is not necessarily a bad thing, but whatever.

Also, lol, old advance tech users will still win without those things. Mindgames and game knoweldge mean nothing to you? They will know which characters movesets work and which doesn't. They will figure out new exploits. They will be able to out think you and use tatics that are more effective than yours. Either way, casuals will still be left in the dust.

Then what's your problem? You're the one who's kidding yourself into thinking that casual players like these changes because it'll allow them to compete with competitive players. Obviously people who play the game far more are going to be better regardless of the rules. I wanted wavedashing to be gone because I think it's against the spirit of the game. Smash's whole thing above other fighters is that it's completely intuitive, being good at it is about knowing how and when to use your abilities, not just being able to do the hard techniques. If anything it will be more about skill now and less about reading forums to learn the latest tricks.

Edit: Oh yeah, well you are afraid of sameness. Strawmens are fun.

I think sameness is boring. If you want sameness just keep playing Melee.

 

[Vegard]

Shut up, idiot >_> (creator of the thread)

 

[LavisFiend]

You don't become a pro because of glitches or exploits period. Thats the point.

Well duh, but you said, "Because of two moves."

He said other glitches.

He obviously sees mindgames and whatnot as glitches.

 

[Mega Inkydog]

BRAWL IS NOT MELEE, AND MELEE IS NOT BRAWL!

just playing around with you.....

 

[LavisFiend]

Shut up, idiot >_> (creator of the thread)

Your mom.

 

[Mama]

LavisFiend gets post of the century award.

Honestly, if you're "winning" at being a "pro" just because you use wavedashing and L-Canceling and other glitches of the sort, you're not a pro. And it worries you because if these techniques are gonna get taken out you just suck, or be on the same level as everyone else.

Melee had a 10 month development cycle. Brawl will have over 2 years. I think they know what they're doing.

Brawl is different from Melee as Melee is different from SSB64, if they were all the same, there'd be no need for sequels. If you want your precious, flawed, glitched physics engine, then by all means play Melee for the rest of your life.

I'm going to stick to Brawl.



It's "disconfirmed" because ONE person testified so?

And the speed never was slow. Some people are just so used to canceling out the lag that they think the game needs to be at teleport speed to be at the same pace as Melee. I see it to be the same speed as Melee. >_>

Incorrect. Its not the techniques that will make him or me better than you. Its our willingness to learn things that make us better. Take away wave dashing in Brawl and we wont cry and all of a sudden be on the same level as you (it wasn't even godly to begin with) we'll adapt and replace whatever advanced techniques may be changed and that willingness is what determines the pros from the scrubs. Not the techniques. We made Melee what it was. You think that Brawl will be Melee - the techniques and thats where you fail to see the light.

You're contradicting yourself you and all the others that think the same way. You fail to see that because Brawl is a different game it will have different things that you will call glitches and new techniques and strategies. When the time comes will you choose to shun the new slew of advanced techniques to come? Or will you change your mindset and learn the new ways? If you think that a player - advanced techniques is a player at your level you're dead wrong. We think on a different more open minded level.

I speak as though I am better than you because you have demonstrated a close mind.

 

[SSoH]

Even if some tech's are removed, who is to say new ones will not emerge? Just because something is removed from a game in the sequel, it wont' mean the game sucks.

Even though I've seen a lot of people say "if XXX tech isn't in brawl, I'm still playing melee," Brawl will do well. The ones who won't play brawl will play melee, and everyone is happy to some extent.

 

[Mama]

Shut up, idiot >_> (creator of the thread)

Lol he's no idiot he's actually pretty open minded.

 

[NES n00b]

Then what's your problem? You're the one who's kidding yourself into thinking that casual players like these changes because it'll allow them to compete with competitive players.

I can pull out quotes if you want. . . . I can probably find them. Some people think that there is such a person who only wins using advance techs and these guys are different from the ones who learned mindgames also. No, they might not know as much but they will still be better at this game because they at least took the time to learn techniques that don't take too long learn unlike casuals.

And yes, one guy's impression does mean something. . . . .you will hear it later today too if that comforts you. At least we know, he played the demo. Sure we should not all jump the gun but it is sorta hard to miss if smashes are slower or not. <_<

About the advance tech people who could not win without advance techs look at above paragraph.

And I said the sameness thing because that is a strawmen arguement. I like that they added footstool, gliding, and crawling. Yay, stuff new and DIFFERENT. Taking stuff away is different but how do we know it will be better? We don't. We only know from Melee experience of how to expect things and that tells me that it isn't a good thing to take things away that added depth. I am not afraid of change. I am afraid of change for the worst. Not all change is good.

 

[LavisFiend]

just playing around with you.....

Awwww, you got meh.

 

[Lant]

I agree entirely.

Plus I came 2nd in a tournament when I didn't bother wavedashing (as Marth) so there, Neeeh. Brawl is a totally new game, it's not like Street Fighter or Tekken which just churns out the same recycled crap 'cos people like it.

Sakurai's gonna build UPON melee, making it fun for everyone, yet still requiring alot of skill to become a 'master' of it. As stated, Sakurai, and his dev team, who're mainly huge fans of Smash Bros.. do you think they'll break the game they love so much?

Aside from the inclusion of wii-motes, I'm pretty sure Nintendo gave them a free reign more or less over how they direct and develop the game.

Hell, you'll still have melee if you're AMGWAVEDASHA, so play that, and let others play Brawl.

I'm personally tired of Fox/Falco on FD with no items doing the exact same moves over and over.

 

[metaknighter]

screw brawl and melee...go smash bros NES!!!!!


at http://ssbnes.cericcproductions.com/


lol, jk, but seriously...try ssbnes. now.

 

[Link Sharingan]

hell i dont use gliches or exploit and still i predict and calculate my enemies attack

using gliches,exploits is not pro,is like a person using steroids and wining a gold medal in the olimpics