Oracle
Smash Master
seriously this character is terrible now. he wasn't good before and they took away lots of big parts of his game. dair being slightly faster is definitely not enough to make up for no throw game and ****ty backair
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why did rob get nerfed
- Thread starter Oracle
- Start date
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
surprise, oracle is my alt account
only thing really bothering me is the side-b change. the timing for a low to the ground side-b is now as strict as a waveland, a GOOD waveland, so it's easy to mess up, but more importantly it's slower. There are some benefits to side-b carrying less momentum but i don't think they make up for that. It's almost like you don't want RoboDash-dashing to be a thing, JCz
I did notice that a SH instaRD can either soft land or put out a uair/fair hitbox, so that seems intentional. 2.1 side-b was still better though.
Also not sure what the point of the uair change was, not that i dislike it, I just don't know why it was changed. I don't have a real opinion on most of the changes to ROB, especially since there's probably a dozen i haven't noticed.
only thing really bothering me is the side-b change. the timing for a low to the ground side-b is now as strict as a waveland, a GOOD waveland, so it's easy to mess up, but more importantly it's slower. There are some benefits to side-b carrying less momentum but i don't think they make up for that. It's almost like you don't want RoboDash-dashing to be a thing, JCz
I did notice that a SH instaRD can either soft land or put out a uair/fair hitbox, so that seems intentional. 2.1 side-b was still better though.Also not sure what the point of the uair change was, not that i dislike it, I just don't know why it was changed. I don't have a real opinion on most of the changes to ROB, especially since there's probably a dozen i haven't noticed.
dettadeus
Smash Lord
The reason Uair was changed was for platform pressure IIRC. And because it does stupid amounts of damage on larger characters because they keep getting hit.
When I tried 2.6 ROB at EVO, I had no trouble transitioning my usual playstyle into the new version and I was actually doing better against some people than I was with 2.5 ROB. If you don't like the new ROB, don't play him, I guess.
When I tried 2.6 ROB at EVO, I had no trouble transitioning my usual playstyle into the new version and I was actually doing better against some people than I was with 2.5 ROB. If you don't like the new ROB, don't play him, I guess.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with most of Oracle's points. His throw game is still solid. Dthrow combos into fair at all %'s bar high, nair at mid-high %'s, and uair at mid-very high %'s. A faster dair also means that ROB can actually effectively SHFFL it on grounded people now (well, I guess it's just more of a SH dair, but you get the point). Not to mention, it seems like that dair carries momentum better, so it helps with recovery, especially after a glide, and also allows some cool tricksies. The new grounded sideB is also an incredibly good buff, especially against spacees and other projectile-based chars. It also makes for an overall good approaching tool at mid-high %'s.
As dettadeus said, the new uair pressures better on plats. It also combos better, IMO, 'cause of how it carries the opponent through to the final hit to maximize frame advantage on-hit. I've had no problem chaining 2, 3, or even 4 uairs together in 2.6, but I used to always have a lot of trouble even connecting two, let alone more, in 2.5b. This also helps out his seemingly 'tweaked' throw game, since dthrow practically always combos into uthrow. Just like dettadeus, I've had no trouble bringing my old 2.5b playstyle into 2.6 and I've found myself doing even better. My very first 2.6 tournament (two days after release), I noticed an astoundingly better MU against Wolf, all because of the new grounded sideB.
As dettadeus said, the new uair pressures better on plats. It also combos better, IMO, 'cause of how it carries the opponent through to the final hit to maximize frame advantage on-hit. I've had no problem chaining 2, 3, or even 4 uairs together in 2.6, but I used to always have a lot of trouble even connecting two, let alone more, in 2.5b. This also helps out his seemingly 'tweaked' throw game, since dthrow practically always combos into uthrow. Just like dettadeus, I've had no trouble bringing my old 2.5b playstyle into 2.6 and I've found myself doing even better. My very first 2.6 tournament (two days after release), I noticed an astoundingly better MU against Wolf, all because of the new grounded sideB.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
New side-b? He's had that since forever, and the current faster version since project m.
Recovery buffs aren't worth mentioning because ROB's recovery has fantastic distance and is good at avoiding getting hit.
Also improvement in performance between the two demos isn't a reliable way to determine quality of character changes because change in player skill is a factor that doesn't get addressed.
Recovery buffs aren't worth mentioning because ROB's recovery has fantastic distance and is good at avoiding getting hit.
Also improvement in performance between the two demos isn't a reliable way to determine quality of character changes because change in player skill is a factor that doesn't get addressed.
dettadeus
Smash Lord
What he meant was the fact that the reflecting part of Arm Rotor now starts on frame 3 rather than like frame 11. If a Falco player is spamming SH Laser you can Arm Rotor between their lasers regardless of whether or not you get hit.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Recovery buffs are very worth mentioning, because it means that ROB can more easily make it back to the stage while retaining more boosts for mix-ups from more angles and positions. Also, as I said before, the new dair is better for more than just recovery. It's now a much better attacking move too.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
... where did you guys get that info from, did JCz do that demonstration thing like last time? That arm rotor buff sounds amazing but i never tried it before.
Yes dair changes are nice but no minor recovery changes to a character will already good recovery aren't worth mentioning.
Yes dair changes are nice but no minor recovery changes to a character will already good recovery aren't worth mentioning.
dettadeus
Smash Lord
Well I hung with JCaes at Evo so I got like all the inside info on the ROB changes. 
I remember him saying the change was almost specifically to deal with Falco.
I remember him saying the change was almost specifically to deal with Falco.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Awesome, I'm gonna work on using that more when I get the chance
How many more demos before we just fuse side-b into his Dsmash, JCz? Tilting on release makes it move like side-b, but It goes less distance uncharged, by like half or so, and about the same fully charged, maybe more. Could also reflect on release of the button, making it a fantastic pressure breaker for both projectiles and CQC. This way we have a move slot to give him a grounded boost that works just like 2.1 side-b but without jumping, thus being slightly faster in terms of start up, without sacrificing the other utilities of 2.5 or 2.6 side-b which still remain aerial only. I swear you would never ever hear another criticism from me again... For a whole demo at least.
Not that I think ROB needs buffs btw, I'm fine with how he is performance wise. More design changes than anything else, buff tweaks if you will. Could always nerf something else to compensate, but I don't feel like writing that much more to describe my ideas for possibly appropriate nerftweaks, especially since it won't be taken seriously.
How many more demos before we just fuse side-b into his Dsmash, JCz? Tilting on release makes it move like side-b, but It goes less distance uncharged, by like half or so, and about the same fully charged, maybe more. Could also reflect on release of the button, making it a fantastic pressure breaker for both projectiles and CQC. This way we have a move slot to give him a grounded boost that works just like 2.1 side-b but without jumping, thus being slightly faster in terms of start up, without sacrificing the other utilities of 2.5 or 2.6 side-b which still remain aerial only. I swear you would never ever hear another criticism from me again... For a whole demo at least.
Not that I think ROB needs buffs btw, I'm fine with how he is performance wise. More design changes than anything else, buff tweaks if you will. Could always nerf something else to compensate, but I don't feel like writing that much more to describe my ideas for possibly appropriate nerftweaks, especially since it won't be taken seriously.
Alex Night
Smash Ace
Problem2
Smash Champion
You already have a tackle reflector and a recovery that is hard to stop. Anything else you would like on a silver platter?
edit: pjsalt
edit: pjsalt
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
this thread is like 4 months old dude, it's about the 2.6 changes
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Lolz, ROB feels different again, though...
JCaesar
Smash Hero
In what way? He got almost no changes.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
The dair and the bair. They felt weird when I was playing the 3.0 dev build at some 3.0 pre-launch fest, and I was told that ROB had suffered "momentum changes" by various PMBR members. Then 3.0 was released and I saw his relatively small change-list. I know it's not much, but after 2.6's release, dair was one of my most used moves offstage (stalling and recovery), although it's on-stage use will remain the same for me.
I can't pin my finger exactly on why bair feels different, but it just does. Idk, I'm not even exactly sure what his bair change in the change-log even means. I've been playing mostly new characters (like Samus), but I went ROB in some serious sets and that was just how it felt, weird.
I can't pin my finger exactly on why bair feels different, but it just does. Idk, I'm not even exactly sure what his bair change in the change-log even means. I've been playing mostly new characters (like Samus), but I went ROB in some serious sets and that was just how it felt, weird.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
It means exactly what it says, the momentum was reverted to 2.5. And yeah, multiple dairs are less effective for recovery now, just like multiple dairs from Ivy or multiple side-Bs from Marth.
Oracle
Smash Master
I know its not in the log, but the forward hitting bair seems different (could be a 2.6 change im still not used to lol). I was boost back airing marth on stage after he up b'd, and it looked like he should have gone forward but he just went back off the stage
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I discussed the bair change with Bstuk, and now I know exactly why bair feels so weird. Apparently, bair cancels all of ROB's vertical momentum. I used to boost upwards and then bair to push myself towards the stage while preserving some of my upwards momentum. That seems to no longer be the case.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
...That's how it worked in all the other demos except 2.6
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Yeah, well I barely played ROB in 2.1, and I got used to ROB in 2.6, so I had no idea what "reverted to 2.5" meant when I didn't even know how bair worked in 2.5. Now I know. <__< I'm not contesting the change, but I'm not sure why it was necessary in the first place. It is easier to aim with as it is now, though.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Pretty sure it was to nerf ROB's recovery. Could be other reaasons.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Personally, I think while ROB's recovery is definitely on the upper spectrum of recoveries in P:M, it actually was not OP at all.
Player -0
Smash Hero
They might be trying to tone down recoveries a bit, I didn't say ROB's recovery is OP but maybe they just felt like it was a bit too much. It might've been to help with precision too.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I would have agreed with you if 3.0 didn't also introduce Samus, Mewtwo, and Kirby, three characters who have arguably had some of the most broken recoveries in Smash history, with buffed recoveries.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Idk, Samus's recovery seems nerfed because the lack of tethering to a wall.
That's besides the point though. Maybe the PMBR decided that the other aspects of ROB were already good enough? I have no clue, just throwing out possible reasons.