Why are some Americans opposing a change in the healthcare system?

[mountain_tiger]

What IS the American dream anyway? I see the phrase flung around every which way, yet I have no idea what it means.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Becoming rich starting from nothing because of the economical possibilities.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

i think those opposing the idea right now are idiots

a drafted document hasn't even really been compromised upon yet by both houses and yet someone wants to quit the idea before even having all the facts about the plan to begin with

 

[Firus]

Xeylode...if the idea of bringing slavery back was thought up, but a final bill wasn't made up, would you appreciate being called an idiot just because you don't know all of the specifics yet still opposed it?

I'm not comparing slavery to universal health care, so all of you just waiting to jump on me can give it a rest...it's just an extreme example to prove my point.

By the way, I'd just like to point out that what really annoys me about this topic is the title. Basically what you're saying is, "What the hell is wrong with you guys? Why do you disagree with me?"

I'm really tired of people being totally unable to tolerate differences in opinions. And this health care debate seems to be one of the worst cases of such. You know, I'm not going to go around calling you evil and drowning you in holy water for supporting it, so there's no reason to complain about anyone not supporting it. Hell, you're not even IN America.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Xeylode...if the idea of bringing slavery back was thought up, but a final bill wasn't made up, would you appreciate being called an idiot just because you don't know all of the specifics yet still opposed it?

I'm not comparing slavery to universal health care, so all of you just waiting to jump on me can give it a rest...it's just an extreme example to prove my point.

Maybe a little too extreme of an example xD

 

[Firus]

Maybe a little too extreme of an example xD

Yeahh, maybe. It was just the first thing that popped into my mind. I would've used a more standard issue like abortion or something, but you almost have to pick something extreme to be able to get something that it's 99.99% guaranteed the person will oppose, as I don't know where you stand on other issues.

My point was just that if you oppose something, you're likely going to oppose it regardless of the details.

 

[GemN]

Because that would give more control to the central (federal) government. America was founded on the idea of a weak central government (or even to the states' governments, maybe not exactly "weak"). That's all I can think of. Also the cost yo. Taxes go up.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Because that would give more control to the central (federal) government. America was founded on the idea of a weak central government (or even to the states' governments, maybe not exactly "weak"). That's all I can think of. Also the cost yo. Taxes go up.

I was talking to my friend about this issue, and he was telling me it's more of a fine, rather than a tax. Not only will the taxesgo up, it will be illegal to not own health care.

Also, I want to bring up a point that if public health care does go in effect, it will only bring more money problems. There will still be private health care, but with the public health care, why would you want private health care? It will only lead to people dropping their private health care for public health care, which will bring higher taxes to play for the lack of people buying private health care, which will eventually lead to unemployment in the private sector.

After talking to my friend about Obama's recent health care program, I am now on the fence about the his latest bill. I am starting to lean in favor of it.

 

[CRASHiC]

Actually, its the opposite.
The more people on the plan, the more we save. The idea of a mandate was purposed by a finance committee, but still no word if it will be in the bill, because there are several versions running around right now.
Its like a bank. The more people you have with money in your bank, the more you can take risk in investment and loans.
The more people we have on health care, the more money the government will have from a non-tax source going to support those who are currently sick.
Meanwhile, we no longer have to pay expensive ER trips for the uninsured of those who are insured but are denied after treatment.

 

[ru5514n]

A lot of people believe that if health care reform is enacted, it will cause their taxes to skyrocket. (I admit this isn't an entirely baseless belief, as most countries with socialized health care do have higher taxes than US).

I don't know why, but Republicans have always opposed health care reform, and have succesfully stopped any previous attempts at doing so. Perhaps it is probably just the fear of government having too much control over their lives. Socialism is not a valid argument IMO because there are elements of socialism in this government already (Social Security, for example).

Then there's the racism factor. Some of the people opposing reform have lived before Civil Rights Act passed, so it is possible that there is some underlying notion that " WTF, a black person shouldn't be telling us this, how dares he, etc". I don't believe racism is the primary reason that people oppose health care, but I do believe that it is for a fraction of them.

Then there's the hurdle of people already satisfied with their health care, and most of those people would rather not let Obama enact such a drastic reform, at least not in these economic times for the fear of further increasing the national debt.

I remember a Democrat Senator recently said that the Republican health care plan was "Don't get sick, and if you do, die quickly". It is an overexaggerated statement, but there is some truth in it. Basically, if poor people can't afford health care, they should go into great debts, or not bother at all. It should be obvious to all that this is not the way to go, especially in US.

 

[Prawn]

Well I'm not going to sit here and tell you why both sides are ****ing ******** as it would take too much time but, just a few quick points:

-Public healthcare means the same healthcare for all, what happens when coal miners or firefighters(people who are given better healthcare because they're jobs are so dangerous and have long term effects) are forced to switch to the public option because its cheaper?

-Sure other countries can make this system work, other countries without TONS of illegal immigrants, over population, record high unemployment and homeless rates and a bunch of other problems that are basically the worst in America or ONLY in America.

On the other side you really can't justify letting poor people die/suffer just because their poor.

ITT: Lots of people who don't know what they're talking about meatride Obama/The government debate with lots of other people who don't know what they're talking about that meatride other politicians, and nothing changes at all. :O

I kid, I know you guys know what you're talking about(most of you at least) but truth is we all have too little of a grasp of the concepts/numbers/money/everything needed to understand EVERYTHING about this issue and come to a completely informed decision.

EDIT:

Socialism is not a valid argument IMO because there are elements of socialism in this government already (Social Security, for example).

Yes that is a valid argument because at this present time every socialist program we're running is flawed and failing because our government is incompetent. I say handing healthcare over to them might doom it to the same fate.

 

[Scott!]

Every socialist program we run is a failure? Aren't the fire departments socialist? As far as I know, they're pretty successful. The public roads system is another socialist program that's done a lot of good for this country. The truth is that not every program the government runs is a failure, and many in fact are quite successful. They just aren't mentioned as much because the more problematic ones are more noticeable.

Also, you mention that coal miners and firefighters are given better healthcare. First off, I'm surprised, especially for the miners. But if that's true, who's giving it to them? Fire departments are publicly run, so their healthcare would be provided by the government.

 

[CRASHiC]

-Public healthcare means the same healthcare for all, what happens when coal miners or firefighters(people who are given better healthcare because they're jobs are so dangerous and have long term effects) are forced to switch to the public option because its cheaper?

You really don't know much about the bill, do you?
No health care insurance companies are being destroyed.
Secondly, why would it be a bad thing for them? Firefighters ALREADY HAVE GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE. So nothing would change for them. Cheaper health care does not mean anything bad. It is will understood that our health care cost are largely inflated. Most opponents respond, that's because we sue left and right. Malpractice suits only make up about .20% of our total health care spending. not 20%, .20 percent. The reason is because of inelastic demand as I had stated earlier.
The reason why government run health care be cheaper is because it is run not as a profit business, but as a goal to even out, nothing more and nothing less. There is no need to hunt for a profit when you are the government.

Yes that is a valid argument because at this present time every socialist program we're running is flawed and failing because our government is incompetent. I say handing healthcare over to them might doom it to the same fate.

This recession was caused by a lack of regulation, so clearly the fault is not completely on our government in terms of incompetency. Socialism is present in our every day lives, and proves us with our basic living needs very efficiently.