Why all the Mewtwo hate?

[Kalypso]

I can understand clone hate, being that design-wise they are identical to other characters with small exception, but people seem to hate Mewtwo just as much, if not more than the average clone. I really don't understand this.

One reason is that he's 'bad' in melee. Bad as in, when you get to the top levels of play you can't use him, which describes about 1/2 to 3/4 the cast. That doesn't matter tho, they are taking the time to balance the game, what matters is the character concept, and mewtwo is honestly one of the coolest characters in melee.

I'm not going to say he's not as bad as people think, but he is a LOT cooler than people give him credit for. And if nothing else, the potential is there for a great character. So whats with the hate? Why would you honestly not want mewtwo in brawl?

 

[EazyP]

Yeah, after I saw the Mewtwo that Quak plays, my Mewtwo hate is done. Respect

 

[Kalypso]

He's so much fun to play, even when you lose. Right now he's my noob-smash character, but I've always wished he was good in some way so I could main him. I'd be more upset if Mewtwo didn't show up in brawl than if all my other characters got cut, SO MUCH POTENTIAL GONE TO WASTE.

For those of you who think he's just garbage with no potential, watch some mewtwo videos, he's one of the coolest characters to watch play, and every once in awhile you'll see a combo so cool you won't know what to make of it.

Lucky Shadowball Combo- At low opponent % if they land on the shadowball while you charge it, about half the time they'll be ejected out forward and you can shoot them with the charged ball. One of the coolest looking combos in the game, and the easiest to perform.

Shadow rush- Face away from where you want to go, shoot a shadowball, go flying in that direction and use a move. I like to use n.air off the edge, it covers about half the screen. Easiest way to edgeguard someone you can imagine, and this alleviates mewtwos normal problem of being too ****ing slow. Hard to perfect, but when perfected is an amazingly cool thing to see.

 

[drewdizzal]

After i saw Taj's mewtwo, i see mewtwo as a god

 

[k!llsw!tch]

mewtwo hate who hates mewtwo.....Taj is a god with him so if they hate mewtwo let them play taj and see if they will hate him then.

 

[Black/Light]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yd1FFTsecW4

He is, like all other characters, a GREAT character in the right hands. He was just made to reflect his character. . . Mewtwo aint known for being the a phy fighter and uses his mind lot.

IMO alot of people can't really get good with him because of his stats. Huge+Light+Slow=hard to control for me. I hope he either gets heavier or more speed in Brawl.

 

[Private Zulen]

You'd have to be physic yourself to play as Mewtwo in my opinion. I just can't control him, it's almost as if he just went "Screw obeying! I'm doing my own thing!". I don't think the Mewtwo hating is as apparent as you say it is, but he is underrated.

In your other post, you said Mewtwo was cool. Where can one go with that, exactly? "He's cool, so he must be good?" I think Young Link is cool and has potential, but I still think he got the freaking shaft in Melee. Mewtwo, however, not even being a clone and a popular first-generation Pokemon's bottom of the barrel Tier status is simply unforgivable! Honestly, whoever greenlighted the concept of not giving Mewtwo any decent smashes should be banned to Dimension X!

Taj kicks *** with him, yes, but that's all Taj. When you're dealing with bottom Tier characters like them, it is the player that makes them good, not the other way around, so like I said, Mewtwo is not a good character, yet good players can be good with them. However, though, good players can be even better with good characters, which is what makes the Mewtwo hating... well... there.

As far as Brawl is concerned, I wouldn't be surprised he didn't return. I would love to see him return with new smashes, but without some good smashes, there are other character's boots he can't even lick.

That's just my take on it. Peace.

 

[Kalypso]

I'm great at controlling him, I think I might try to main him again.

edit- His smashes are not the problem. His up and down smashes are GREAT, his forward smash isn't anything to write home about but it's certainly not bad. He just has an extremely unique playstyle, which I seem to fit right in to.

And his coolness is derivative of his unique character design and movement, young link is just link, Mewtwo is arguably the most different character design-wise than anyone else in the game, with the possible exception of ice climbers which are just gimmicky.

Mewtwo. Is. The. Man.

 

[Private Zulen]

Oh, right, I forget to throw in a mention of how kickass his grabs are.

 

[McFox]

The Mewtwo hate that he's referring to is the fact that many people when making their imaginary Brawl lists remove Mewtwo from the roster for whatever reason.

 

[Kalypso]

The Mewtwo hate that he's referring to is the fact that many people when making their imaginary Brawl lists remove Mewtwo from the roster for whatever reason.

Amoung other things. It's like no one even notices he exists. Like paras *wink wink*

But yeah, it's idiotic to ignore him, he's just too cool to ignore. Watch 'Shadowclaw' by Taj to see what I mean.

 

[Mini Mic]

I have personally always thought he was good, it takes alot of effort to get good as him but man can he pwn.

 

[Fawriel]

Mewtwo love!

The reason why relatively many people hate him, I think, is the same reason why relatively more people suddenly seem obsessed with the normally relatively obscure Fire Emblem and Star Fox franchises.
I know this is an awfully cynical generalization, but it's true in many case: People want characters they can kick butt with, and the team failed to give Mewtwo this benefit.
The only character designed even WORSE than him is Zelda, who can do NOTHING, except that she has two broken moves that keep her from being in Mewtwo's place in the tier list.
Sometimes I really wonder what those developers were on when they "tweaked" the characters for "balance".
Zelda seems to have been created like "Let's be careful not to make her too powerful!" and Sheik was created like "Let's not make her too weak!", and then they just royally ****ed up every single advantage Zelda has and gave Sheik maybe one single weakness.

Sorry, I digressed a little. Thinking about how badly designed Zelda is just makes me mad.
Mewtwo, in terms of moveset design, is actually very well done. I love how symmetrical his moves are...
Tilts: Tail down, forward, up.
Smashes: Energy down, forward, up.
Aerials: Tail down, energy forward, tail up, tail backward.
And his grabs are just plain awesome.

But his STATS speak of the same design as Zelda. "He seems powerful. Come on, think of some disadvantages he could have and add them!"
Slow, floaty, light, huge... and moves too weak to compensate for it. Awesome.

*sigh*
End rant.
Just give Mewtwo some more damage here, some more knockback there, some more speed somewhere else and a whole lot more weight and done is a great character.
And what could be cooler than actually owning someone with a character who's so **** awesome that he doesn't even BOTHER to use his whole body in a battle to the death!

 

[Speedsk8er]

And his coolness is derivative of his unique character design and movement, young link is just link, Mewtwo is arguably the most different character design-wise than anyone else in the game, with the possible exception of ice climbers which are just gimmicky.

Mewtwo. Is. The. Man.

As an IC main, I'd like to say **** you and have a nice day. ICs are way more unique, with Ness, Gaw and Yoshi behind them.

As a Mewtwo secondary, I don't hate Mewtwo but ****, Hal sure as hell screwed him over in Melee. They Ness-ed him before he had the chance to be good.

I suggest that for Brawl, Mewtwo gets "Psychic", Pokemon stadium version.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I think one reason people want him out is that, despite Mewtwo being the Big Bad guy in the first game, he's constantly being challenged for that title with every new generation, and I think some people just want someone fresh rather than stick with him. While I'd like it if Mewtwo returns, I can sort of see where these people are coming from.

Then of course there are people who think he should just go because he's a 'bad' character, which is honestly one of the poorest reasons to get rid of any character (yes that includes Pichu, but he has so many other reasons for his removal). As it's largely pointed out, a character shouldn't be dropped based on their performance in melee (and likewise, no character should simply return becauyse of how good they are in melee).

That said, Mewtwo is one of the more frustratingly harder characters to be decent with. Being so big, so light and so slow isn't helping him at all, and it's not like he has enough power to make even Ganondorf jealous. Seriously, if he's not got enough power to compensate, he shouldn't have 2 of those disadvantages, let alone all 3.

Fortunately if he does return, he'll most likely get a decent buff up. Hopefully he'll go through the same process that Samus did from the transition to melee.

 

[Cenedar]

I'm not gonna say that Mewtwo is freaking amazing or that he completely got messed up in Melee, nor will you hear me say that for ANY character. Like Zulen said before, PLAYERS, not characters, determine who wins in a match. Watch "Shadowclaw" and you'll see what I mean.

Is Mewtwo as good as he could be? Pfft, no.
Is there potential for him? **** YES.

Thank you for pitching in for Mewtwo Kalypso.

@LukeFonFabre:
These are good points you bring up as well. However, just speaking IMO, Mewtwo is still one of the most downright awesome Pkmn out there, despite competition from future generations. I also agree that he needs to be either heavier or faster in Brawl, as the aforementioned "floaty, light, slow" combination will kill just about ANYONE. I think he'll probably be heavier, as I actually thought his speed seemed just about right for someone his size. So here's hoping he gets more weight to him.

Mewtwo love.

Peace my brothers and sisters

 

[Kalypso]

The future generations of pokemon are dumb compared to the original ones, I'm sorry. They are. The 3 starters are still the coolest start chains of any of them, Mewtwo is still the coolest badguy, most of the random pkmn are better in the original design-wise than later as well. Some of the later pkmn designs make me shake my head and wonder what went wrong. IMHO, almost all of the post-gen1 legendaries look stupid. Regis? Groundon? Ho-oh? All look freaking dumb. A great deal of the legendaries in pearl/diamond look like normal pokemon and not legendary at all... Suicune is the only cool-looking pokemon of the three dogs =/

Gen1 ftw.

 

[kaid]

I just want the Brawl intro FMV to have Mewtwo and Lucario in a battle of awesomeness.

 

[Giga Master Hand]

While I can't say I main Mewtwo or anything (I can't play competitively since I'm nowhere near another SSBM player), I'd like to add that it's one of the most flavorful Pokémon out there. It's not because the later generations suck, but because it has a decent moveset (except for Disable and Confusion, which are too weak, IMO) and is also floaty, which adds to the awesomeness.

Most players don't like Mewtwo because of its huge size and light weight, which hurts it quite a lot when it comes to battling (since not even casual players like a character which flies longer distances than most others when struck), but the whole concept behind Mewtwo's moves and battle style make him a fun, offbeat character. If the developers would've made it heavier, Mewtwo would be slightly more balanced, but as it is, it's quite weak unless used by someone who has trained for a long time with it.

Still, I hope Mewtwo will appear in Brawl, but I won't feel that sad if it doesn't, anyway.

 

[Cenedar]

I just want the Brawl intro FMV to have Mewtwo and Lucario in a battle of awesomeness.

Quoted for truth. That battle would be so amazingly magnificent, like an orchestra playing O Fortuna... except with fists and psychic powers... yeah...

 

[Kalypso]

I just want the Brawl intro FMV to have Mewtwo and Lucario in a battle of awesomeness.

Mewtwo flies up 30 feet and blasts psychic everywhere, fight over lol

 

[TaurToph]

I can't see why mewtwo is too slow.
I mean, it's biggests stats are speed and sp.attack. While it's bad in defense and physical attacks...

Being big don't mean you have to be slow.

 

[kaid]

Mewtwo flies up 30 feet and blasts psychic everywhere, fight over lol

It's a FMV. It therefore ignores the fact that Mewtwo would one-shot the poor fighting type, and instead we get Lucario reeling, then throwing off Mewtwo's psychic attack, and charging in with his own energy blast, before they cut to the next game series.

 

[Lu-Gi-Oh!]

I think one reason people want him out is that, despite Mewtwo being the Big Bad guy in the first game, he's constantly being challenged for that title with every new generation, and I think some people just want someone fresh rather than stick with him.

Yeah, but when you REALLY think about it...WHAT other "big bad guys?"

I mean, yeah, I guess there's Deoxys, and it is true that he holds the same role in-game as Mewtwo did in his generation, being the secret UBER strong pokemon that you couldn't get to until you beat the game, but there's also characterization you have to consider.

For example, just read the Pokedex entries of Mewtwo from almost any version. Here are just some excerpts from a couple of them.


FireRed: A Pokémon whose genetic code was repeatedly recombined for research. It turned vicious as a result.


Pokemon Stadium 1: A vicious psychic Pokémon created by genetic engineering. Its cold, glowing eyes strike fear into its enemies.


Ruby and Sapphire: Mewtwo is a Pokémon that was created by genetic manipulation. However, even though the scientific power of humans created this Pokémon's body, they failed to endow Mewtwo with a compassionate heart


And here's my personal favorite, from the latest games in the series.


Diamond and Pearl: It is born through the manipulation of Mew's genes. It is said to possess THE MOST ferocious heart among ALL Pokémon (Emphasis mine)


So yep, Mewtwo still holds the title of the most "evil" pokemon, even including all the new guys. Compare that to Deoxys, who isn't described NEARLY as maliciously in its entries (or at all, for that matter). And then they're games like Mystery Dungeon and the anime where it's portrayed as being good, so I don't think Deoxys is even suppose to be bad.

I don't know a lot about the 4th gen, but I don't think it has any "big bad guy" anyway. And then there's Lucario, who isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Mewtwo is still the best choice for a "villain pokemon". Mewtwo should stay for that reason alone, because every popular series will hopefully get at least one major baddie. Besides, his playstyle is far too unique to let it all go to waste.

Of course, Melee performance is one of the stupidest reasons to want any character's exclusion since they're going to nerf/buff the Melee characters in Brawl anyway. Mewtwo just needs a major buff to show that he ain't called the most ferocious pokemon for nothing!

Edit: Oh, and I just want to point out that I'm not saying that Deoxys and Lucario shouldn't get in. I'm saying they shouldn't get in by REPLACING Mewtwo.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

When I said Big Bad Guy I didn't mean villainous. I meant more along the lines of Uber legendary pokemon. Mewtwo was really the only uber legendary pokemon in the first game, but now there are a lot of other legendary pokemon that are pretty much on the same level. Granted Deoxys is the only one that's easily workable, but I was saying that Mewtwo's role as being obscenely powerful is now spread over a much larger area, which hurts his overall significance.

Granted, as far as villainous goes, he's got everyone else beat. But when it comes to being ridiculously powerful amongst the rest of the pokemon, he's no longer unique in that aspect, and has arguably been usurped as the strongest pokemon (though they had to practically add God in the game to do it).

Obviously Mewtwo is a lot more iconic and recognizable in this role, but I get the feeling some people just want someone more fresh and recent. Still, I think there's room for other 1st gen reps alongside Pikachu and to add pokemon from the more recent franchises.

 

[Micahc]

When I said Big Bad Guy I didn't mean villainous. I meant more along the lines of Uber legendary pokemon. Mewtwo was really the only uber legendary pokemon in the first game, but now there are a lot of other legendary pokemon that are pretty much on the same level. Granted Deoxys is the only one that's easily workable, but I was saying that Mewtwo's role as being obscenely powerful is now spread over a much larger area, which hurts his overall significance.

Granted, as far as villainous goes, he's got everyone else beat. But when it comes to being ridiculously powerful amongst the rest of the pokemon, he's no longer unique in that aspect, and has arguably been usurped as the strongest pokemon (though they had to practically add God in the game to do it).
Actually, they added Arceus, and if I recall correctly, he is the "God" Pokemon, but who's number two? Mewtwo.
Obviously Mewtwo is a lot more iconic and recognizable in this role, but I get the feeling some people just want someone more fresh and recent. Still, I think there's room for other 1st gen reps alongside Pikachu and to add pokemon from the more recent franchises.

And I still have yet to find the hate everyones been bashing on, he just needs some statistical tweaks.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

I was actually referring to Arceus, I'm well aware that he is the 'God' of all pokemon.

And it's debatable whether Mewtwo takes the next slot. He's still amongst the strongest, but it's much less clear cut than it used to be.

 

[Micahc]

I was actually referring to Arceus, I'm well aware that he is the 'God' of all pokemon.

And it's debatable whether Mewtwo takes the next slot. He's still amongst the strongest, but it's much less clear cut than it used to be.

Mewtwo just has a different role than the other Ubers, while Lugia is used as a tank / sponge, Mewtwo works as a special sweeper, but he still has one of the highest base stat totals in the game, actually it's just behind Arceus, so he at least SHOULD be well known

 

[King Axel]

Here's my take on Mewtwo.

He's certainly an interesting character. He is probably one of the only character with a hybrid moveset, and by hybrid, I mean combination. His grabs are slightly reminiscent of Ness, while his charging psychic ball is like Samus's arm cannon. However, mostly everything else is unique. So, what's not to like? His uniqueness, which shouldn't be a problem. However, since he's unlockable, that brings up a problem.

Some people do great with this floaty, light-yet-heavy apparation. But many don't. To use Mewtwo, you either need to be good at him right off the bat, or you need to be able to work really hard at him. People like having around two characters to play with, and many people choose their main and secondary as either the original 12, or Marth/Roy. To be good with a character, it helps if you can use them right off the bat, right? That way, you don't need to do anything else to use them.

However, since Mewtwo is unlockable, and since most people didn't want to open up their Smash game by leaving on their Cube for twenty hours, they first start with a different character. Mewtwo is commonly thought of as one of the characters you unlock a little later in your Smashing, and since you're either born to play him or you want to work hard to play with him, by the time you unlock him, you're already good with other characters. Now, what's wrong with adding another character to your roster, you ask? Nothing. It's just that Mewtwo is so incredibly different from every other character, playing as him feels awkward when compared to the characters who people normally play as.

And so, most people give up on Mewtwo. He's not a horrible character. He's just different. But by the time you have twenty hours to dig into the game, you'll already have gotten used to another character; all of the characters, which, are quite different than Mewtwo. The fact that he's not immediately playable hurts his chances.

 

[Micahc]

(King Axels Post)

And how does the fact that he's not immediately playable hurt his chances?

 

[King Axel]

Don't take me the wrong way. By "hurt his chances", I don't mean "make him unplayable". They just add on to the things that hinder his playability as a common character.

Anyway, think about this. Would you be better at a character if he was immediately playable, or if he was unlockable later? It isn't the worst factor about Mewtwo. Being unlockable doesn't matter sometimes, to some people, but sometimes it does.

 

[Micahc]

But his near unplayability makes him unique, thus increasing his chances of making it to Brawl, if they took him out then it would be a wasted moveset and character.

 

[Fawriel]

Also... as eloquently formulated as the post is, I just can't agree. I don't see how Mewtwo is THAT different... Ness is a lot tougher in that respect, and he's a starter. And it takes so little time to unlock Mewtwo... AND Falco, one of the most often used characters, is a lot harder to unlock...

EDIT: Waaah, I completely missed the two posts on the last page. ..oh well, my point stands. >_> <_<

 

[whiterob]

After watching that Taj video just now I feel that mewtwo should no longer be at the bottom of the tier list. The things on that video... WOW.

 

[Kalypso]

After watching that Taj video just now I feel that mewtwo should no longer be at the bottom of the tier list. The things on that video... WOW.

Combo Videos =/= Balance Facts

but no, he is not the worst character in the game.

 

[King Axel]

Also... as eloquently formulated as the post is, I just can't agree. I don't see how Mewtwo is THAT different... Ness is a lot tougher in that respect, and he's a starter. And it takes so little time to unlock Mewtwo... AND Falco, one of the most often used characters, is a lot harder to unlock...

EDIT: Waaah, I completely missed the two posts on the last page. ..oh well, my point stands. >_> <_<

Well, Ness did have the original Smash tucked under his belt. Players had two years to unlock and play with him.

 

[Private Zulen]

Oh, right, if we're discussing legendaries, Mewtwo's down on the list.

Arceus creates existance, then creates Palkia and Dialga.
Palkia creates space, Dialga creates time.
Kyogre and Groudon get pissed at each other, fight, and in doing so, shape the world.
Mew is the first "mortal" Pokemon, and Mewtwo is cloned using his DNA by scientists.

 

[dynamic_entry]

Oh, right, if we're discussing legendaries, Mewtwo's down on the list.

Arceus creates existance, then creates Palkia and Dialga.
Palkia creates space, Dialga creates time.
Kyogre and Groudon get pissed at each other, fight, and in doing so, shape the world.
Mew is the first "mortal" Pokemon, and Mewtwo is cloned using his DNA by scientists.

sure... in terms of poke-lore (which is pretty crappy)

in terms of poke-cool, mewtwo blows those clowns outta tha water!

i <3 Mewtwo

 

[Private Zulen]

Mewtwo was just an emo Pokemon. Started off cool, but then just sort of walked around wondering what he was doing there and hating everything. Sasuke-syndrome.

He still looks cool, anyway.

 

[dynamic_entry]

his taunt was equal coolest (with ganondorf's) in melee IMO.