SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
*cough*sonicfans*cough*
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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?
- Thread starter Superyoshiom
- Start date
Correction: Ganondorf is a quasi-immortal
If we count everyone with everything they have, the most powerful characters in Smash are probably Marth, Lucas, Samus, Mewtwo, Ganondorf (Quasi-Immortal lololol), Ness, and Rosalina. Ike is also high up there and the Star Fox characters with their ships could probably blast most things in a second. Oh, can't forget Bowser.
If we count everyone with everything they have, the most powerful characters in Smash are probably Marth, Lucas, Samus, Mewtwo, Ganondorf (Quasi-Immortal lololol), Ness, and Rosalina. Ike is also high up there and the Star Fox characters with their ships could probably blast most things in a second. Oh, can't forget Bowser.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
I don't think that characters like Marth and Ike are quite as powerful as the Psychic/Magic/Energy users. They're swordsmen, and not ones with master swords. They can deal with the magic users and medieval weapons of fire emblem, but probably not the villains and heroes of the other franchises.
iunno I'd say being able to take down entire kingdoms is pretty powerful. They also do know evasion. They're high up, but probably not the highest. Thinking about it, Fox/Wolf are probably above Marth/Ike.
egaddmario
Smash Champion
Taking down entire kingdoms doesn't have the same weight as saving humanity or threatening it- ie Ness and Mewtwo/Ganondorf
In a sense, that is saving humanity. I'm pretty sure the entire plot of Radiant Dawn and especially Awakening go over "Saving humanity".
Plus when you think about it, most of these did use other people. The big diff is in FE though is that you end up with a lot of people.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Exactly, the scale of their power is large for their game, but small compared to the other games.
Mario and Luigi are weak, so Marth and Ike are stronger then them. If you think of the other characters that are relatively close to Mario's strength, like Peach or Animal Crossing guy, or yoshi and even DK, you can get a pretty good idea of where the Fire Emblem duo lie.
Mario and Luigi are weak, so Marth and Ike are stronger then them. If you think of the other characters that are relatively close to Mario's strength, like Peach or Animal Crossing guy, or yoshi and even DK, you can get a pretty good idea of where the Fire Emblem duo lie.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
The reason why Marth is up there has already been debated about. His Falchion doesn't just heal him - it completely seals any attacks that aren't from a dragon or manakete. This doesn't mean he's invulnerable - it means that the (non-dragon) attacker can't even attack him at all. Here's the description of the Falchion from Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryu to Hikari no Tsurugi --
"Wieldable only by Marth. Effective against dragons; Seals all non-dragon direct attacks. Can be used as an item to restore HP."
As for Ike, he doesn't have this ability, but he's still pretty damn strong. Just not Marth strong.
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SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Hmm, that makes him more powerful. Although Ganondorf has invulnerability to things that aren't blessed, because of the triforce. That still puts him ahead.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
The Falchion is a blessed weapon, in a way - it's forged from the fang of the Divine Dragon, Naga, after all. And Ganondorf can't even hurt Marth since he isn't a dragon. But since Marth can't deal a finishing blow to Ganondorf and Ganondorf can't hurt Marth, I think they're pretty much on even ground.
PillsBuryDopeBoy
Führer President King DopeLord The VI
Nuff said.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Having insane defensive powers doesn't make one strong though. Look at sandbag! As was already discussed, he is pretty much invincible, but he has no attack power, so we said he isn't the strongest. Marth has near-invincibility and can still attack, but he's just a swordsman with sub-sandbag defense. A powerful swordsman, but still...
And some characters can do equal defense and still pack-a-punch.
Captain falcon isn't a freak under that helmet. Who knew.
Nuff said.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
True, but that's just it - Marth CAN fight. And if the other character isn't fighting Marth, they're running away, stalling, or avoiding the fight altogether - which counts as forfeiting the match, imo. Afaik, we're deciding who is the strongest by MU's, so if you don't beat Marth, he's canonically stronger. After all, strength depends on both a good offense and a good defense. If Marth can shut down your offensive options while still having a decent offense, I think he definitely deserves his spot up there.
Yeah, some characters can. But offense doesn't mean anything if you can't break the opponent's defense. Also, regarding Sandbag, I'm pretty sure that was a joke topic lol. He doesn't count as a fighter.
Lmao indeed, that was not how I pictured the Captain under the helmet lol.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
For a lot of characters, it ends up a stalemate. Especially Ganondorf. But I see your point, Marth is high on the list.
As for sandbag...I don't even know anymore...
Superyoshiom
Smash Master
How broad is this range of "dragons"? Can Charizard or Bowser be able to attack him?
josh bones
Smash Lord
He's a turtle! And I can imagine marth losing to an altaria
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Well, I would assume that by dragons, they mean traditional dragons. I also assume that it isn't enough to be using a Dragon-Type move; the Pokemon in question must also be of the Dragon-Type. Of course, this is a point of discussion, so fire away, guys.
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Muster
Smash Lord
If we're talking specifics, not even traditional dragons can hurt Marth, only the Manakete kind.
Manaketes are dragon people who transform into dragons with magical stones, and Naga (one who blessed the falchion and who's fang makes the blade) blessed the blade with super awesome magical goddess powers or something that don't register for her own kind.
I think it's only fair that dragon type moves could hurt marth, (because manaketes technically are just traditional dragons when transformed) but charizard is technically fire type, and bowser is a koopa, so they don't really count imo.
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josh bones
Smash Lord
What about mega charizard x?
Muster
Smash Lord
That should work for fairness's sake i guess, but I doubt charizard would be able to mega evolve and do a sustaining blow (that marth can't just heal) before he gets poked. Of course, we don't really know how fast either of them are besides charizard having a speed stat and marth apparently running several acres relatively quickly, as well as his own speed stat. Also, we must take into account knowledge of the enemy, charizard for example may not know that marth is only weak to dragon, and spam flamethrower or he may have a charizardite y instead.
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KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Charizard... well, this goes into the whole Pokemon Trainer thing. What Pokemon is he allowed to bring? Just the three in Brawl, or any of the 151 (Since this is obviously the Kanto Trainer)? At any rate, Marth could just go after Pokemon Trainer lol.
josh bones
Smash Lord
gen 1-2 cause he's red. Anyway, SOnic wins next matchup is Rockman vs
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Pit. Hands down.gen 1-2 cause he's red. Anyway, SOnic wins next matchup is Rockman vs
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
Most likely gonna have to say Pit unless I'm missing some big thing bout Mega Man. I'll be listing some of Pit's traits and stuff he can use later, and will be a big read, so be ready.gen 1-2 cause he's red. Anyway, SOnic wins next matchup is Rockman vs
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Bracing my boxers.
Peekolow
Smash Cadet
in strength it is ganondorf or a falcon punch coming from captain falcon. but in my opinion, the strongest character (not the best) would be Ike. he has pretty decent speed, his attacks are really strong.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Man, if we take that F-Zero anime as canon... LOL ...
In terms of raw strength (assuming the F-Zero anime is non-canon), I think Ganondorf would be the strongest. He has the Triforce of Power for goodness' sake xD
kataridragon
Smash Ace
My thoughts on Ganondorf.
Nothing says he can be hurt by normal weapons or whatever. He has gotten hurt by silver arrows before. The way I see it is it takes a lot to take him out but it can be easier with a weapon of godliness, light, or holy.
It would take more from a karate expert than a white knight. I believe that in his position this is extremely fair to believe.
Thoughts?
Nothing says he can be hurt by normal weapons or whatever. He has gotten hurt by silver arrows before. The way I see it is it takes a lot to take him out but it can be easier with a weapon of godliness, light, or holy.
It would take more from a karate expert than a white knight. I believe that in his position this is extremely fair to believe.
Thoughts?
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
If i'm right in assuming that you meant "Nothing says he can't be hurt by...", then just let me say this: the silver arrows are a special case, especially since they've only been used lethally once - and that was in the first game. Even the Light Arrows, which are about as holy as holy can get, merely stun him. In both the Child and Adult timelines, Ganondorf was killed by the Master Sword and only by the Master Sword. Anything else either seals him or stuns him - which doesn't really count as defeating him. That said, you're right in that holy/godly/light weapons make it easier to take him down. However, he canonically cannot be truly defeated by anything other than the Master Sword (current Zelda canon) or Silver Arrows (analogue to the Silver Bullets that allegedly slay demons and other creatures of the night).
As for your second point... I'm not really sure what you're saying? xD
JediLink
Smash Ace
I'd just remind everyone that the Four Sword is just as effective as the Master Sword, so the Master Sword isn't necessarily the only thing that can kill Ganondorf.
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KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Except the Four Sword didn't kill Ganon. The Seven Maidens only sealed Ganon inside it. And we all know how well seals and Ganon get along...
kataridragon
Smash Ace
I mean when talking about ganny powers we are really talking about demise powers here. This sealing stuff is more aligned with demise not Ganon.
I'm not saying we should think of Ganon without demise powers that's silly. I'm saying that when sealing Ganondorf your killing Ganondorf and sealing demise. Just throwing that out there.
So on the whole silver arrows debacle... Silver is aligned with killing demons and such but isn't directly linked to light. So I figure that anything capable or proven to damage demons (Ganondorfs source of magical and power) should be effective in damaging him.
Really that's not to far fetched.
Oh Ganondorf you slippery snake you!
I'm not saying we should think of Ganon without demise powers that's silly. I'm saying that when sealing Ganondorf your killing Ganondorf and sealing demise. Just throwing that out there.
So on the whole silver arrows debacle... Silver is aligned with killing demons and such but isn't directly linked to light. So I figure that anything capable or proven to damage demons (Ganondorfs source of magical and power) should be effective in damaging him.
Really that's not to far fetched.
Oh Ganondorf you slippery snake you!
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KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Well, that's the thing though. The Ganondorf sealed in the Twilight Realm was the same Ganondorf from OoT. The Ganondorf in WW is the one from OoT. The Ganon in the entire "Defeated Hero" Timeline is the same as the one from OoT. The only Ganondorf that isn't the same one as from OoT is the FSA Ganondorf whom was sealed in the Four Sword (as for what happens to him after that is yet to be seen since FSA is the last game in that timeline as of so far). So Ganondorf's return are both his and Demise's vengeance. I don't think it's fair to separate them and say that Ganondorf is killed when he is sealed - because he really does come back of his own accord (albeit with influence from Demise's curse).
If that makes any sense.
I think the silver arrows have effectively been retconned at this point so I dunno lol. Anyway, yes, he can be damaged. But if we're taking Smash Ganondorf as the OoT incarnation, then he canonically cannot be truly defeated unless he is slain by the Master Sword or by the Silver Arrows - because otherwise, he just comes back to fight again - and in my books, allowing him to be able to come back does not count as a defeat.
Man, I dunno. Ganondorf is an iffy subject lol.
kataridragon
Smash Ace
I agree Ganon is pretty iffy. I'm just playing the anti Ganon role here die to the LOZ fans (no offense).
You can't retcon the silver arrows!!! Lol. I didn't realize that the OOT Ganondorf was actually the exact same Ganondorf as in WW. That does change his status to me a bit. At least in longevity (I assumed he died of old age then reincarnated again).
I figure Ganondorf dies then demise finds a new host and takes over. The same as link in most cases except direct sequels.
The question I wonder is what does it take to destroy Ganondorfs "physical body"?
You can't retcon the silver arrows!!! Lol. I didn't realize that the OOT Ganondorf was actually the exact same Ganondorf as in WW. That does change his status to me a bit. At least in longevity (I assumed he died of old age then reincarnated again).
I figure Ganondorf dies then demise finds a new host and takes over. The same as link in most cases except direct sequels.
The question I wonder is what does it take to destroy Ganondorfs "physical body"?
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KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I might've jumped the gun there a little hahaha.
And on WW Ganondorf, it's actually not as clear cut as that. I did a little research just now and you do technically kill Ganon in the Adult Timeline, which is the timeline WW takes place in. However, in WW's story, Ganondorf comes back because he breaks a seal... so things don't really add up :\
As for Demise... (SS spoilers below)
Demise was sealed inside the Master Sword following the events of SS where he's left to deteriorate along with Fi - so it's not that Demise finds a new host each time; the curse works on a deeper level by twisting destiny itself. The bloodlines of SS Link and Zelda are forever cursed - hence the other antagonists that seemingly have nothing to do with Ganondorf, yet are brought down by Link's efforts.
Ganondorf's physical body... To be honest, I don't even know lol. I think it's safe to assume his dark magic fortifies it far beyond human/Hylian/Gerudo standards. A skin-tight magic shield, if you will? That said, I don't know if that affects any kind of internal trauma that could happen (shockwaves, for example, or if you flung him at high velocity into a wall, the damage from his internal organs' inertia).
*shrug*
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
I thought it was Pit v Megaman time, what happened?
Note: Almost done with my big post, so... prepare yourselves.
Note: Almost done with my big post, so... prepare yourselves.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Preparing my panties.
pitthekit
Smash Ace
Through dust and lightning, through the seas and terrain I shall revive this thread.
josh bones
Smash Lord
Piticus wins. Nexitus matchupicus is icus vs icus.
icus vs icus.
JediLink
Smash Ace
This is mega difficult to read.Piticus wins. Nexitus matchupicus is