JediLink
Smash Ace
Some of the beings Super Sonic has defeated:
Note: All of these things are freaking huge and are basically godlike, much moreso than Ganondorf or even Ganon.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?
- Thread starter Superyoshiom
- Start date
Note: All of these things are freaking huge and are basically godlike, much moreso than Ganondorf or even Ganon.
josh bones
Smash Lord
I'm just asumming little mac wins because stupid sandbag is stupid.
vs
vs
kataridragon
Smash Ace
Interesting fight. I would still say sonic. Ness has some strong psi abilities but supersonic is invulnerable so.... Ya. Do I think ness could hold him off? Sure but he has no sure fire way of taking care of supersonic short of possibly making him fall asleep an sneaking up on him. However sonic is just to fast for most of that stuff.I'm just asumming little mac wins because stupid sandbag is stupid.
Super sonic attacks first because of his initiative and greatly damages ness. Ness could either try to make him sleep (likely missing), attack with psi or his bat which would be rather ineffective, alternativly ness could put up a barrier that would only slow his defeat.
Not much else as far as I could see.
Last edited:
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Link has fought numerous enemies close to that scale:Some of the beings Super Sonic has defeated:
Note: All of these things are freaking huge and are basically godlike, much moreso than Ganondorf or even Ganon.
Demise/the imprisoned, a demon
No more pictures... But he fought the Stallord, Morpheel, majora, zant, in addition to ganondorf. Plus many others.
Many of the monsters fought by link are equal or greater than the ones fought by sonic.
thesage
Smash Hero
Ness wins since he can go back in time and kill them while they are a fetus.
SuperNintendoDisney
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
- Messages
- 429
He has the entire Triforce in A Link to the Past. Regardless, even on piece of the Triforce grants Omnipotence, so it stills beats seven emeralds that only granted enhanced powers
Smoke and Mirrors. Being huge doesn't mean being powerful and being almost god-like doesn't cut it. You sound like a child honestly. "They are so big and powerful, surely they are stronger than Ganon!" It's also blatantly obvious you are a Sonic enthusiast cluded by your own wishful thinking. Sonic fans are the worst, I tell ya
Maybe not a regular Sandbag, but an Omnipotent being can still win over whatever invincibility he has. An omnipotent being can take away his power of invincibility
Are people really running with this idea? I can't stress how juvenile it is, its playground imagination. Its like when a little baby finds out a new word
Have you ever played any Zelda games? Just play any of them and they make it clear how powerful Ganon is. Its becoming obvious you know very little about him and the Triforce. I already gave an explanation as to why he is so powerful. Its basic Zelda knowledge.
Straw-man. This argument makes no sense whatsoever. The two variables (interference/omnipotence) don't even correlate. Just stop
You misinterpret my argument and then straw-man my argument to cloud the issue. This is not why I said Ganon is Omnipotent. This is the reason Link exists, the Gods chosen one who can defeat evil. Therefore, the Gods aren't interfering with fate only influencing it. Plus, its clear now that Ocarina Link failed, therefore it gives precedence that even if the Gods try to influence fate it still may not work
Last edited:
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Good post.
One thing though, link failing is just one of three timelines. How is it clear that that's the true timeline? The ones where link wins are just as true as his downfall.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Hang on, what? A piece of the Triforce doesn't grant omnipotence. Having all the pieces implies omnipotence since you could technically wish for anything at all.
Agreed on the bit with Ganondorf. Just 'cause he's man-sized doesn't mean he's limited in strength and power. Just look at the one fight between him and Midna with the Fused Shadows. He completely pwned her.
Again, with the omnipotence thing, I'm not so sure he has omnipotence. If he did, nothing you do in the game matters. He could just give himself the whole Triforce and make a few more. Maybe even make a Quadforce or something. He isn't even close to omnipotence. However, that's not to say he isn't crazy strong, 'cause that guy is crazy strong. Ganondorf is no god - he's a Demon King. Still powerful, but definitely not god-like.
The Zelda games do make it clear how powerful Ganondorf/Ganon is. They make it clear that he isn't a god. He isn't omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient.
Moreover, even in the Timeline that OoT Link failed, other Links rose up later and defeated Ganon. You have to remember Ganondorf isn't the one responsible for his repeated reincarnation. If anything, it's Demise who has god-level abilities - Demise and the goddesses locked in an eternal proxy war with Link vs. Evil (in general). Ganondorf is just one manifestation of Demise's curse. All of the major antagonists in the Zelda franchise are manifestations of the curse; hence why it's Link that eventually confronts them.
Mega Bidoof
Smash Hero
Do bosses and items count?
If so, I would say Porky Minch is up there.
He has been taught under Giygas, who is an undefinable demon that no mind can comprehend. Then again, Lucas CAN destroy him, but like any RPG final boss fight, it takes a few times, and since Porky would have probably killed Lucas, Porky is more powerful.
Though I also have to give props to Sandbag. Not very high in power, but is invincible in defense. Nothing can actually destroy Sandbag, and all that you can do is knock him around.
Not to mention, it is a canon fact that Sandbag feels no pain, and WANTS to see people give it their all in trying to beat him up.
That's pretty intense.
If so, I would say Porky Minch is up there.
He has been taught under Giygas, who is an undefinable demon that no mind can comprehend. Then again, Lucas CAN destroy him, but like any RPG final boss fight, it takes a few times, and since Porky would have probably killed Lucas, Porky is more powerful.
Though I also have to give props to Sandbag. Not very high in power, but is invincible in defense. Nothing can actually destroy Sandbag, and all that you can do is knock him around.
Not to mention, it is a canon fact that Sandbag feels no pain, and WANTS to see people give it their all in trying to beat him up.
That's pretty intense.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Nah, obviously ness and Lucas beat out porky, and they aren't quite as powerful as a few characters.
Mega Bidoof
Smash Hero
This is one of the things that really bothers me when discussing who is more powerful in video games, especially in RPGs.
It's a really big misconception that the heroes who defeat the final boss, are actually stronger than the final boss.
They're not.
The only reason people say this is because the heroes has "continues" an multiple lives.
In a real fight, you can't get killed get up, and try again.
Almost every dies on their first attempt at a final boss, and in real life, the hero would only have their first attempt, and any second, third, fourth, or any attempt after that wouldn't matter.
They would have already been dead, and the villain would have been declared the victor.
Porky > Ness & Lucas (especially since Ness and Lucas don't have their teams in Smash)
Fawful + Dark Star > Mario + Luigi + Bowser
Ganondorf/Ganon > Link
Etc....
Eight Melodies
Smash Journeyman
Porky is really just a kid in a mech. He may have been influenced by Giygas, yes, but I wouldn't say he's even on Ness' level, let alone his.
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
- Messages
- 26,302
- Switch FC
- SW-1597-979602774
Mewtwo, Ness, Ganondorf and Samus all heavily stand out to the rest. Lucas seems obviously somewhere up high to, as would Ike, and probably Sonic, Mario and Bowser.
Also, wasn´t Sonic powerless against psychics? That´d make him a simple target for Mewtwo and the Mother kids.
Also, wasn´t Sonic powerless against psychics? That´d make him a simple target for Mewtwo and the Mother kids.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
So what's the scoop today as far as the matchups go? *thinks*
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
- Messages
- 26,302
- Switch FC
- SW-1597-979602774
I vote Ness wins cause Sonic can´t handle psychics. And Ness is quite a damn powerful psychic.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
I just got earthbound today.
Can ness beat ganondorf? Is his psychic greater than the power of the triforce?
I vote yes!
Can ness beat ganondorf? Is his psychic greater than the power of the triforce?
I vote yes!
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Ganondorf is capable of psychic powers as he is shown to possess beings multiple times in the Zelda franchise. The real question is whether Ganondorf is capable of putting up psychic walls, so to speak. It wouldn't be too farfetched.
Given Link's lack of psychic attack, I agree that we really don't know what Ganondorf would be capable of defensively.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Ness is pretty strong-willed. I'm sure he could fight back a psychic attack. And if he has the bravery to climb entrails and fight a huge alien fetus, he should be able to handle ganondorf. Giygas seems stronger than ganondorf too...
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Oh no, I don't doubt Ness' abilities at all. It's Ganondorf's psychic defense that's in question here.
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
Ahh, I get ya'. In that case, there's nothing in-game about him having any psychic defenses.
He was able to overpower Navi at the end, if that means anything. And considering Ganondorf's proficiency in dark magic, he must have some sort of wall he could throw up.
That being said, Ness has defensive psi powers as well, so it really wouldn't matter for Ganondorf.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I dunno. We don't know enough lol.
Yeah, as far as psychic powers go, Ganondorf could probably resist Ness's PSI powers to some extent, whereas if Ganondorf were to attack Ness with psychic powers, he probably wouldn't get anywhere at all. So a psychic battle between Ganondorf and Ness likely wouldn't get anywhere too quickly. That said though, what about a physical battle? Since Ness can't technically land any kind of finishing blow on Ganondorf, is beating him technically possible? How are we defining "defeat" again?
HammerHappy
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 178
I don't think we should restrict Mewtwo by implying that all you need is a master ball.
Again, in the most accurate representation of the universe (the manga), Mewtwo is actually a human-pokemon hybrid. As in they didn't get enough genetic information from the eyelash and a scientist (Blaine) decided to substitute his own to fill in the rest. Mewtwo rampages, and basically turns a lot of the Cerulean city area into a disaster zone.
Red does eventually tag him with a Master Ball (with Blaine's help), and Mewtwo almost kills him for it. You can read it here: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/pokemon_adventures/v03/c034/
This was when Mewtwo would of been considered juvenile too.
What I'm trying to get across here is just chucking a Master Ball at Mewtwo like in the games is a good way to watch a priceless piece of tech get obliterated.
Again, in the most accurate representation of the universe (the manga), Mewtwo is actually a human-pokemon hybrid. As in they didn't get enough genetic information from the eyelash and a scientist (Blaine) decided to substitute his own to fill in the rest. Mewtwo rampages, and basically turns a lot of the Cerulean city area into a disaster zone.
Red does eventually tag him with a Master Ball (with Blaine's help), and Mewtwo almost kills him for it. You can read it here: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/pokemon_adventures/v03/c034/
This was when Mewtwo would of been considered juvenile too.
What I'm trying to get across here is just chucking a Master Ball at Mewtwo like in the games is a good way to watch a priceless piece of tech get obliterated.
JediLink
Smash Ace
One piece of the Triforce obviously does not grant omnipotence, because that would make Link (and Zelda) omnipotent too, and if Link was omnipotent then the Zelda games would be finished in five minutes.
Ganon may have had the full Triforce in LttP, but in both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess it's clearly established that he only has the Triforce of Power so that's what I'm going by. Yes, if he had the full Triforce, he would be easily SS tier (or whatever the highest one is) but just the Triforce of Power on its own is not all that godlike.
Uh, what? I'm way more of a Zelda fan than a Sonic fan. My name is even JediLINK for crying out loud.
Gee, thanks.
You mean Ocarina Link could have failed. The whole failure timeline is an alternate, "what if?" kind of scenario. In the regular timeline, Link beats Ganondorf no worries.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Precisely this.
If we gave Ganondorf the full Triforce, we can give Link the full Triforce, too. He assembled it in Skyward Sword, after all. But obviously, we can't do that.
HammerHappy
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 178
I'm fairly certain people are just starting to make **** up.
Since when were characters like Rosalina and Ganon Omnipotent? Able to "remove" invulnerability? You're talking about school yard **** when you're fabricating powers for Ganondorf on the fly. Such as removing the canon established by the game we're trying to figure out who's the strongest in.
I find it magical that you're insulting people about "learning new words" when you clearly don't understand what omnipotence means.
Omnipotence, or "all power" is the term given to describe a being with unlimited power. Examples: God, Allah, etc.
This includes, but is not limited to:
Omniscience: The ability to know everything
Omnipresence: Being present everywhere
Omnibenevolence: Infinite goodness
Do you know why that last one is in there? Because since there's good in the world, there clearly can be no evil omnipotent being because then their desire for total evil would of been reality. Oh wow, the player doesn't automatically lose every Zelda game on start up? Gee, isn't Ganon omnipotent?
Oh wait he isn't even close, especially with only the triforce of power. The fact that he fails at anything should be the only reason you need.You can't even say other omnipotent beings keep him in check, because that defies the whole concept of omnipotence. More than one can't exist.
He's a magical immortal with invulnerability to anything that isn't holy and the ability to turn into a giant pig. He is not a God.
As for Rosalina, she gets her fuel stolen by a giant fire breathing turtle, already not known for their stealth. "Theft" generally doesn't happen to a being that sees all and knows all. And then she does jack about it other than send Mario after him. .
Oh, and I read the plot for SMG. Rosalina isn't the one that creates that super massive black hole. The star Bowser creates collapses into a black hole which is then destroyed by the Lumas. It collapses into a singularity and then super novas. Ass backwards and nonsensical but it's a Mario game so.
All Rosalina does is fondly regard creation in her fancy space ship. She isn't omnipotent or a deity.
Did any of you guys actually look into the capabilities of the characters you talk about?
Screw it, Pichu is the Master of the Universe because I say he is.
= The beginning and end of all creation
Edit: Omnipotence itself is a paradox anyway. If a being can do anything, they should be capable of creating a task they can't do.
Since when were characters like Rosalina and Ganon Omnipotent? Able to "remove" invulnerability? You're talking about school yard **** when you're fabricating powers for Ganondorf on the fly. Such as removing the canon established by the game we're trying to figure out who's the strongest in.
I find it magical that you're insulting people about "learning new words" when you clearly don't understand what omnipotence means.
Omnipotence, or "all power" is the term given to describe a being with unlimited power. Examples: God, Allah, etc.
This includes, but is not limited to:
Omniscience: The ability to know everything
Omnipresence: Being present everywhere
Omnibenevolence: Infinite goodness
Do you know why that last one is in there? Because since there's good in the world, there clearly can be no evil omnipotent being because then their desire for total evil would of been reality. Oh wow, the player doesn't automatically lose every Zelda game on start up? Gee, isn't Ganon omnipotent?
Oh wait he isn't even close, especially with only the triforce of power. The fact that he fails at anything should be the only reason you need.You can't even say other omnipotent beings keep him in check, because that defies the whole concept of omnipotence. More than one can't exist.
He's a magical immortal with invulnerability to anything that isn't holy and the ability to turn into a giant pig. He is not a God.
As for Rosalina, she gets her fuel stolen by a giant fire breathing turtle, already not known for their stealth. "Theft" generally doesn't happen to a being that sees all and knows all. And then she does jack about it other than send Mario after him. .
Oh, and I read the plot for SMG. Rosalina isn't the one that creates that super massive black hole. The star Bowser creates collapses into a black hole which is then destroyed by the Lumas. It collapses into a singularity and then super novas. Ass backwards and nonsensical but it's a Mario game so.
All Rosalina does is fondly regard creation in her fancy space ship. She isn't omnipotent or a deity.
Did any of you guys actually look into the capabilities of the characters you talk about?
Screw it, Pichu is the Master of the Universe because I say he is.
= The beginning and end of all creationEdit: Omnipotence itself is a paradox anyway. If a being can do anything, they should be capable of creating a task they can't do.
Last edited:
kataridragon
Smash Ace
What did I miss? Lol.
Ya the whole Ganondorf omnipotent thing is fabricated. Nuff said. However I think what can hurt Ganondorf is kinda up in the air. He has been hurt by silver arrows, light arrows, regular swords, and the master sword. We all know holy/light weapons are the most effective in taking him down.
Link losing to Ganondorf is just as canon as him winning. Unfortunately link does lose to Ganon. Not really a what if. It happens.
I was under the impression Rosalina created that black hole thing. Hmm I need to look into this.
My thing with ness is he has telekinesis not necessarily telepathy. Two different concepts. Psychic abilities yes but not a blanket mind can do whatever stuff.
Ya the whole Ganondorf omnipotent thing is fabricated. Nuff said. However I think what can hurt Ganondorf is kinda up in the air. He has been hurt by silver arrows, light arrows, regular swords, and the master sword. We all know holy/light weapons are the most effective in taking him down.
Link losing to Ganondorf is just as canon as him winning. Unfortunately link does lose to Ganon. Not really a what if. It happens.
I was under the impression Rosalina created that black hole thing. Hmm I need to look into this.
My thing with ness is he has telekinesis not necessarily telepathy. Two different concepts. Psychic abilities yes but not a blanket mind can do whatever stuff.
Last edited:
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
That's true - Ness doesn't necessarily use telepathy. Still, Ness can't deal a finishing blow to Ganondorf without the Master Sword or Silver Arrows, afaik. Other holy artifacts merely stun or seal Ganondorf, which I don't consider to be a true defeat. So it comes down to a battle of attrition, which I am certain Ganondorf would win.
pitthekit
Smash Ace
If we want to go deeper we can calculate how much power characters have with physics.I'm fairly certain people are just starting to make **** up.
Since when were characters like Rosalina and Ganon Omnipotent? Able to "remove" invulnerability? You're talking about school yard **** when you're fabricating powers for Ganondorf on the fly. Such as removing the canon established by the game we're trying to figure out who's the strongest in.
I find it magical that you're insulting people about when you clearly don't understand what omnipotence means.
Omnipotence, or "all power" is the term given to describe a being with unlimited power. Examples: God, Allah, etc.
This includes, but is not limited to:
Omniscience: The ability to know everything
Omnipresence: Being present everywhere
Omnibenevolence: Infinite goodness
Do you know why that last one is in there? Because since there's good in the world, there clearly can be no evil omnipotent being because then their desire for total evil would of been reality. Oh wow, the player doesn't automatically lose every Zelda game on start up? Gee, isn't Ganon omnipotent?
Oh wait he isn't even close, especially with only the triforce of power. The fact that he fails at anything should be the only reason you need.You can't even say other omnipotent beings keep him in check, because that defies the whole concept of omnipotence. More than one can't exist.
He's a magical immortal with invulnerability to anything that isn't holy and the ability to turn into a giant pig. He is not a God.
As for Rosalina, she gets her fuel stolen by a giant fire breathing turtle, already not known for their stealth. "Theft" generally doesn't happen to a being that sees all and knows all. And then she does jack about it other than send Mario after him. .
Oh, and I read the plot for SMG. Rosalina isn't the one that creates that super massive black hole. The star Bowser creates collapses into a black hole which is then destroyed by the Lumas. It collapses into a singularity and then super novas. *** backwards and nonsensical but it's a Mario game so.
All Rosalina does is fondly regard creation in her fancy space ship. She isn't omnipotent or a deity.
Did any of you guys actually look into the capabilities of the characters you talk about?
Screw it, Pichu is the Master of the Universe because I say he is.
Edit: Omnipotence itself is a paradox anyway. If a being can do anything, they should be capable of creating a task they can't do.
You would need referents
Like Samus light beam in echoes can designate a space pirate.
Therefore Samus light beam has enough temperature to reach the pirates melting point
egaddmario
Smash Champion
Guys, everyone's forgetting that we're talking canon. Wouldn't this mean if Ganondorf, or anyone for that matter, were to strike Ness down in one shot, he would still have a good two minutes to heal because of his CANON health meter system? And with over 700 health and 500 PP thanks to the saga in Magicant and endgame and the ability to heal, paralyze, sleep, shield, PSI Flash and PSI Rockin', i'm pretty sure Ness is unrivaled. It's also silly to picture Ganondorf crying uncontrollably....
SmasherCat
Smash Journeyman
That's true, Ness could certainly contain ganondorf for a bit. The health meter system would let him have a free attack or two, but Ganondorf can only be defeated by those special weapons...
egaddmario
Smash Champion
PSI Teleport β to Hyrule to grab one...?
Last edited:
pitthekit
Smash Ace
We honestly don't know if gannondorf can only be beaten by the master sword/goddess blessed objects.(I think the 3 golden goddess are just advance aliens to be honest)
Also can we have referents for feats for Gannon?
Gannon survived the being gutted by the sage sword in TP
Gannon survived Valoos fire in WW at forsaken fortress.
Gannon can break pots..
Any Zelda fanatics know any more feats?
Also can we have referents for feats for Gannon?
Gannon survived the being gutted by the sage sword in TP
Gannon survived Valoos fire in WW at forsaken fortress.
Gannon can break pots..
Any Zelda fanatics know any more feats?
LunchPolice
Smash Apprentice
It amazes me how vicious people can be when arguing about pretend video game characters, haha.
BackwardCap
Smash Apprentice
Most gameplay mechanics aren't considered "canon" towards a characters actual abilities.
egaddmario
Smash Champion
Why shouldn't they be? Everything should be taken into consideration- For example, Mewtwo should only be able to use Psychic 10 times, because it only has 10 PP. Same should be applied to Ness and even something like Super Sonic, who needs rings to keep up his strength.
BackwardCap
Smash Apprentice
Because then you have things like multiple lives, characters like sonic who instantly die when they touch anything, Pokemon only fainting during battle, Instant kill moves in any rpg, and a ton of no limit fallacies that would exist.
Eight Melodies
Smash Journeyman
Ness has shown the ability to speak to others through his PSI so he does have telepathy.
KoRLumen
Smash Journeyman
Indeed. We can't be selective about these kinds of things.
Yes, but whether it can be used as an effective attack against opponents is another story. I think we can agree that psychokinesis is Ness' main form of attack. That and his trusty bat.
Last edited:
HammerHappy
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 178
It happens when insults are thrown out for no apparent reason.
Die hard fans get VERY defensive.