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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

Crystanium

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Here's what I think how Samus would be if she was a Pokémon.

Name: Samus Aran (w/ armor)
Type(s): Steel/Flying
Ability: Speed Boost
Hidden Ability: Battle Armor
Gender ratio: 100% female
Catch rate: 0
Egg group: Human-Like Group
Hatch time: 1499 steps
Height: 6'3" (1.9 m.)
Weight: 198 lb. (90 kg.)
Regional numbers Pokédex: 001 Zebes
Browser: R-009, Crateria
Base experience yield: 150
Leveling rate: Medium Fast
EV Yield: N/A
Body style: Bipedal, tailless form
Footprint: Human
Pokédex color: Red
Base friendship: 70

Pokédex entry
The lone survivor of earth colony K-2L, Samus Aran battles the space pirates to bring peace to the galactic civilzation. It is said she was raised by bird people.

List of TMs and HMs Samus Aran learns (when in parentheses, this is to demonstrate the actual attack from the Metroid series)

TMs

HMs
  • Fly (Space Jump)
  • Strength (Samus can toss a large gear and throws Vorash around.)
  • Dive (Samus can enter water and attack while submerged.)
 

Munomario777

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Nice idea Dryn! I'll go ahead and do that for Sonic. However, I won't be including species-related things (i.e. gender ratio, egg group) since Sonic isn't a species. Anyway, let's get started:

GENERAL INFORMATION

Name:
Sonic
Type: Fighting/Steel (his quills are as sharp as a razor blade)
Ability: Sturdy (protects against OHKO attacks, similarly to the Rings)
Hidden Ability: Run Away
Height: 3'3" (100 cm)
Weight: 77 lb (35 kg)
Leveling rate: Fast (he learns new tricks every other game)
Body style: Bipedal, tailed form
Footprint: ???

STATS

Attack: High (especially when applying speed to attacks)
Defense: Extremely Low (he gets killed instantly with no Rings)
Special Attack: Moderate (he has some nice ranged attacks, but nothing too special)
Special Defense: Very Low (see Defense)
Speed: Extremely High (do I even need to explain this?)
Range: Very High (he never tires out while running)
Evasion: Very High (his reaction time and speed make him an expert at dodging)
Accuracy: Very High (many attacks have homing properties, and he's got great control over his speed)

I won't be going through moves and such, because A) there's not always going to be a direct match and B) I don't want this to take too long. :p
 

Creativion

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:4kirby:VS:rosalina:
FIGHT!!!
I disagree. Even though Rosalina has attacks like that in Smash Bros., Kirby could defeat her with other abilities. Heck, with all the games he has been in and all the big bad bosses he beats, I think Kirby can beat Rosalina.
 

Munomario777

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I disagree. Even though Rosalina has attacks like that in Smash Bros., Kirby could defeat her with other abilities. Heck, with all the games he has been in and all the big bad bosses he beats, I think Kirby can beat Rosalina.
Actually, I was pulling the black holes and all from what the Lumas can turn into, not from Smash (we consider that non-canon). Rosalina turns a Hungry Luma into a black hole, sends it towards Kirby, and kills him via spaghettification. Rosalina blocks Kirby's attacks with invincibility items like the Starman.
 

Crystanium

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Actually, I was pulling the black holes and all from what the Lumas can turn into, not from Smash (we consider that non-canon). Rosalina turns a Hungry Luma into a black hole, sends it towards Kirby, and kills him via spaghettification. Rosalina blocks Kirby's attacks with invincibility items like the Starman.
The black holes in SMG don't look like black holes. A black hole should look like this.



Maybe it doesn't have the visuals correctly, but what about the effects, then? If Mario gets pulled into a black hole, is he spaghettified? Nope! He actually gets sucked in and swirls around the black hole, kind of like getting sucked into a sinkhole found in water. It seems odd to me that the structure around Mario is unaffected, but Mario is not. Interestingly, "black hole" is used with reference to certain types of sinkholes.
 
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Munomario777

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The black holes in SMG don't look like black holes. A black hole should look like this.



Maybe it doesn't have the visuals correctly, but what about the effects, then? If Mario gets pulled into a black hole, is he spaghettified? Nope! He actually gets sucked in and swirls around the black hole, kind of like getting sucked into a sinkhole found in water. It seems odd to me that the structure around Mario is unaffected, but Mario is not.
The black holes in Galaxy mimic distortion, via the red lines. The Kirby enemy doesn't even attempt to have a distortion effect over the face.

Mario isn't spaghettified because that would likely involve gore, and we don't know exactly what that would look like since we haven't witnessed it happening before. Plus, the Mario series isn't exactly known for realistic death animations.

The structure is unaffected for the same reason the Power Bomb doesn't destroy the environment.
 

Crystanium

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The black holes in Galaxy mimic distortion, via the red lines. The Kirby enemy doesn't even attempt to have a distortion effect over the face.

Mario isn't spaghettified because that would likely involve gore, and we don't know exactly what that would look like since we haven't witnessed it happening before. Plus, the Mario series isn't exactly known for realistic death animations.

The structure is unaffected for the same reason the Power Bomb doesn't destroy the environment.
Red lines might be one way to interpret the event horizon, but I'm not as concerned with its visual representation as I am with its effects. While gore might have been the reason, we don't even know if the creators of the game are familiar with that word or its effects in the first place. Furthermore, if one were to be sucked into a black hole, they'd go feet first. From the looks of it, Mario's back is facing the black hole as he spirals downward. With the knowledge that the planetoids in SMG would explode violently in reality, that has to be ignored, so I don't see why the same couldn't be said of the black hole.

The suction does have a large radius and Mario is incapable of escaping, so I don't see why Kirby would be able to escape, regardless. We don't know how powerful Schwarz's suction actually is, but what we do know is that it's not strong enough to keep Kirby from escaping. Maybe you think that stone Kirby would be able to avoid the black hole, and he honestly just might be able to. Let's say Kirby's stone ability changes him into sandstone. With a density anywhere between 2.2 to 2.8 g/cm^3 (let's use 2.5 g/cm^3, which is the average), Kirby would have a mass of 10.98 kg., which puts him around the weight of a toddler.

There is that ability for Kirby to transform into an 8 ton weight, but he cannot do anything at this time. If those black holes Rosalina can cause remain there forever, or at least for a very, very long time, then Kirby will be defeated by attrition. He does have his double stone ability, though, which would allow him to move anyway. In this form, Kirby is 96 pixels in diameter, while in his normal form he's 45 pixels in diameter. This would mean double stone Kirby has a mass of 61.71 kg., which would be somewhat heavier than Mario if Mario is 58.98 kg. (130 lb.). So the black hole would work against double stone Kirby.

As for why the power bomb doesn't destroy the environment, it's established that it does from the battle against the Queen Metroid, as well as the destruction wrought by SA-X when it escaped the Quarantine Bay. The same cannot be said for these black holes.
 

Munomario777

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Red lines might be one way to interpret the event horizon, but I'm not as concerned with its visual representation as I am with its effects.
Right.
While gore might have been the reason, we don't even know if the creators of the game are familiar with that word or its effects in the first place.
That's another possible reason.
Furthermore, if one were to be sucked into a black hole, they'd go feet first. From the looks of it, Mario's back is facing the black hole as he spirals downward.
Why feet first?
With the knowledge that the planetoids in SMG would explode violently in reality, that has to be ignored, so I don't see why the same couldn't be said of the black hole.
True (if you're saying what I think you're saying).
The suction does have a large radius and Mario is incapable of escaping, so I don't see why Kirby would be able to escape, regardless. We don't know how powerful Schwarz's suction actually is, but what we do know is that it's not strong enough to keep Kirby from escaping. Maybe you think that stone Kirby would be able to avoid the black hole, and he honestly just might be able to. Let's say Kirby's stone ability changes him into sandstone. With a density anywhere between 2.2 to 2.8 g/cm^3 (let's use 2.5 g/cm^3, which is the average), Kirby would have a mass of 10.98 kg., which puts him around the weight of a toddler.

There is that ability for Kirby to transform into an 8 ton weight, but he cannot do anything at this time. If those black holes Rosalina can cause remain there forever, or at least for a very, very long time, then Kirby will be defeated by attrition. He does have his double stone ability, though, which would allow him to move anyway. In this form, Kirby is 96 pixels in diameter, while in his normal form he's 45 pixels in diameter. This would mean double stone Kirby has a mass of 61.71 kg., which would be somewhat heavier than Mario if Mario is 58.98 kg. (130 lb.). So the black hole would work against double stone Kirby.
Good to know.
As for why the power bomb doesn't destroy the environment, it's established that it does from the battle against the Queen Metroid, as well as the destruction wrought by SA-X when it escaped the Quarantine Bay. The same cannot be said for these black holes.
I was referring to the game mechanic of things not destroying the playable environment.
 

Crystanium

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Why feet first?
Ignore that. I thought such was the case, but it's not. It depends on what goes first.

Good to know.
Indeed. What this means is if the black holes in SMG aren't like our black holes, they still have enough suction to pull in human-sized opponents and people with similar or lower mass.

I was referring to the game mechanic of things not destroying the playable environment.
I know you were, which is why I mentioned two examples where game mechanics aren't present. I'm simply saying that because the environment isn't also being pulled in, the black hole doesn't act like a real one. If it's a bottomless pit with a high suction, then it'd explain why there's a limitation to its tidal force, hence the reason why things with greater mass aren't being pulled in.
 
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Munomario777

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Indeed. What this means is if the black holes in SMG aren't like our black holes, they still have enough suction to pull in human-sized opponents and people with similar or lower mass.
Right.
I know you were, which is why I mentioned two examples where game mechanics aren't present. I'm simply saying that because the environment isn't also being pulled in, the black hole doesn't act like a real one. If it's a bottomless pit with a high suction, then it'd explain why there's a limitation to its tidal force.
The game mechanic is present in the power bomb, and it's present here. There's a supermassive black hole at the end of Galaxy that looks similar to the ones found in levels, and it tears apart planets.
 

Crystanium

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The game mechanic is present in the power bomb, and it's present here. There's a supermassive black hole at the end of Galaxy that looks similar to the ones found in levels, and it tears apart planets.
Stellar black holes wouldn't take too long for spaghettification to occur once something came in contact with the event horizon. Spaghettification will not occur with a supermassive black hole until the object comes within the range of singularity. This means once Mario and Princess Peach walk out of the castle, that bridge or whatever should not have broke apart. Otherwise, Mario and Peach should have experienced the same thing. In fact, there are things that look like they're touching the singularity, and yet they're remaining intact.
 

Kirby Dragons

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In America, the public changing their mind doesn't mean a "revote" takes place.
Actually, the rules of America can be changed at any time.
A) It does with the current rules.
B) Sonic could use ranged attacks, or he could use Chaos Control to freeze time before Mewtwo could use Disable.
A) We might just end up getting rid of that anyways.
B)
How does he do this?
He creates a storm.
A) Games > Sonic X.
B) The invincibility of Super Shadow is the same as Protect (unless otherwise specified), but the invincibility of Super Shadow is irrelevant to the attacking power of Super Shadow.
A) Has Super Sonic ever blocked Super Shadow's attacks in the games?
B) As specified by Nerdicon, Super Shadow/Protect are different.
It's best to vote when you actually have a good system for voting.
Listing the votes isn't the same thing as taking votes.
You didn't prove anything; you made a claim, and claims must be proven.
Well, this whole discussion is irrelevant anyways.
Then we'll use that size.
Okay.
It depends on the character.
Correct.
A car is not made to explode, yet it can explode.
Through an outside force. Kirby's attacks are the outside force here, they make Marx fly away.
It isn't something that was said in the games.
And the force comes from a larger object (i.e. a human leg) in the soccer ball's case.
These guys would be propelling themselves.
A) They don't move at those speeds in the games, but their leg strength means that they could. Also, Dryn's calculations.
B) The wheel does lose speed, though, due to things like air resistance. Prove that Kirby is as heavy as a rollerskate wheel.
B) Since there is no source for this, we can say that Kirby as a wheel is heavier because he is bigger, and also because he is the same object.
Fly him through the level?
Kirby can already fly.
That's person armor, not machine armor.
It's what you were referring to when you made your comparison, correct?
Because...?
Well, he would be, but he wouldn't have time to charge the LSA before the Helper gets in back.
He could simply go behind Kirby; the move can circle around enemies.
Are you suggesting that Sonic could go in between Kirby and the Helper? There isn't enough room for that.
Ownership of a sandwich is irrelevant to friendly fire; the sandwich isn't trying to harm you.
Ownership of a sandwich is relevant to ownership of an attack, which friendly fire is all about. Although you caused the sandwich, it isn't yours. Although Kirby caused the explosion, it isn't his, so it would be able to hurt him, provided he didn't tank it.
Then Kirby takes damage from explosions more commonly than he doesn't, and the Sectonia explosion is overruled.
Cutscene.
Kirby isn't flat, though. He's trying to get flat.
He'd be pretty close to flat in the first place, since he is Mini Kirby and he is ducking.

Giga Bowser + the Clown Car would weigh more than 3.5 tons.
I wasn't saying he could lift Giga Bowser + the Clown Car, I was saying he could pull himself through the hole because he weighs less than 3.5 tons.
The Helper can't move during the summoning, and likely couldn't react in time given that delay.
Then Kirby heals the damage from the attack afterwards with a Maxim Tomato.
Kirby's attack caused the launch, but didn't provide the force. It's like lighting a fuse on a stick of dynamite; the match causes the explosion, but the force comes from the explosives inside the stick.
Things that cause a launch provide the force.
How does Lumas not being offensive when turning into non-offensive things mean they can't turn into black holes?
I meant that Lumas have never turned into offensive transformations, so they can't turn into black holes.
  • We know that Pokemon use some sort of energy system; PP stands for Power Points. I'm looking into what exactly this energy system could be like.
Power could also mean the powers (abilities) of the moves being used.
  • Strong Pokemon have more energy than weak Pokemon.
Have any proof of that?
  • Eventually a character would get tired out, unless it's stated that it's an attribute of the character, shown in a cutscene, etc. I'd be fine with giving Pokemon and other characters limited stamina, and putting Fly into that limitation.
  • No, the most basic functions are breathing, movement, standing, etc.
Pokemon are used for battling, using their moves. That is their most basic function.
Because...?
It is a black hole. It was confirmed.
No, because of the lack of distortion.
Gameplay > real life. A lack of distortion isn't matter. It was said to be a black hole. It acts like a black hole. It looks like a black hole. It's a black hole. If you're going to use this, I might as well say that Sonic isn't a hedgehog, because hedgehogs aren't blue. He is said to be a hedgehog, he looks like a hedgehog, so he is a hedgehog. The colors of things don't matter here.
How are cutscenes inherently more accurate? They take the same priority as gameplay.
I disagree. In gameplay, they need to make sure you can't stomp the game, so they might add things not accurate. If they added the durability Kirby's shown, you would stomp the game.
And in the cutscene, Kirby has plot armor. Prove that that one cutscene's portrayal is correct, rather than the rest of the series.
It's not just one cutscene he shows such durability.
Many attacks would be quick enough to finish him off, or at least knock Stone out of him.
Kirby has taken hits without losing his Copy Abilities before.
He could just dodge the paint.
Kirby just waits until Sonic gets close.
When is it said or shown that they observed it? (By WoG, not characters that could very well be wrong.)
I don't think Olimar could "very well be wrong".
Being back in this place where he was stranded is likely bringing back memories, and possibly the insanity. I think it might be called PTSD, but I'm not quite sure.
He's got other things on his mind besides memories of the past. He's focused on receiving treasure to pay a debt.
And the attribute of slicing dimensions is an attribute.
But it wasn't added by the American publishing team. The Dimensional Slicer was added by the American publishing team.
And which is in the rules list that we all use.
A) It's not even on the list of rules yet.
B) Every other rule on that list is something most of us agree to. Because of it, that rule doesn't belong there.
Intangibility, then.
Okay.
Kirby would be unprotected during this time switching the abilities. Also, Kirby can't possess mid-bosses or bosses, and I think a Luma fits into that size category.
Unprotected from what?

Ujas are about 2.5 Kirbies (20 inches), and Kirby can possess them. Lumas are about the same size.
kirbtwoja.PNG



Ah. Still, the point stands if he used it for other attacks.
It's not like the attacks would be accurate in the first place, Kirby is invisible.
  • They're considered non-canon by virtue of the fact that they've been redone. It's like starting over and redoing that game, replacing the old one.
Maybe we should take a vote on this.
  • It's not depicted to be a specific type of attack, so we use the closest match so we at least have something to work with.
Did you get the idea that it's an earthquake from "Geo" in the title? For all we know, it could be boulders falling on the opponents.
  • Can Marth hold all of them at once, though? If Marth sheaths his swords, the Blue Tornado would slide them out, unless they're super-grippy sheaths or something.
Marth would only use about, two swords. The Blue Tornado might slide them out, but probably not enough to make them fall, especially if Marth's hand is over them.
  • It takes less than a second.
It looked like about a second to me.
@Dryn, @ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue , @ Munomario777 Munomario777 , @ Kirby Dragons Kirby Dragons , @Nerdicon
How are we going to handle stealing the equipment of other combatants?

  1. Characters can steal equipment from each other all wily-nily.
  2. Characters can steal equipment from each other except from characters that have feats for holding onto their items (Link’s grip with the Hook Shot (but not money, arrows or bombs since thieves and rats can swipe those) and the Fire Emblem characters equipped weapons (and unequipped weapons and items too if the would be thief is too slow or weak).
  3. Characters can only steal equipment if they have shown that aptitude in canon (Mewtwo’s trick and Toon Link’s grappling hook).
  4. You can steal from helpless combatants (sleeping, paralyzed, dazed, etc).
  5. No stealing allowed.
I say option 2.
 

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Munomario777

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Actually, the rules of America can be changed at any time.
Votes for the President aren't redone the next week because people changed their mind.
He creates a storm.
Would you happen to have footage of this?
A) Has Super Sonic ever blocked Super Shadow's attacks in the games?
B) As specified by Nerdicon, Super Shadow/Protect are different.
A) No, because Super Shadow never attacks Super Sonic in the first place. This is a loaded question.
B) I fail to see how this relates to attacks.
Listing the votes isn't the same thing as taking votes.
A) They're both part of the voting system.
B) I think we started tagging users for votes since the original Chao Garden vote.
Through an outside force. Kirby's attacks are the outside force here, they make Marx fly away.
Correct. For the car, it could be a match, and for Marx, it's Kirby.
It isn't something that was said in the games.
And? That's not the definition of "statement".
These guys would be propelling themselves.
Have they been shown to do this at high enough speeds to deal any decent damage?
B) Since there is no source for this, we can say that Kirby as a wheel is heavier because he is bigger, and also because he is the same object.
Or we could use gravity, falling speed, etc. to calculate it.
Kirby can already fly.
Meta Knight is faster.
It's what you were referring to when you made your comparison, correct?
No, more like the metal armor that the Badniks actually resemble.
Well, he would be, but he wouldn't have time to charge the LSA before the Helper gets in back.
It takes a couple of seconds, and Sonic could easily get enough room by creating a gap with his speed.
Are you suggesting that Sonic could go in between Kirby and the Helper? There isn't enough room for that.
He could go through the Helper.
Ownership of a sandwich is relevant to ownership of an attack, which friendly fire is all about. Although you caused the sandwich, it isn't yours. Although Kirby caused the explosion, it isn't his, so it would be able to hurt him, provided he didn't tank it.
Ownership of a sandwich is possessing that sandwich, having the right to eat it, etc. Ownership of an attack in the context of friendly fire is most often having caused that attack, but this can vary from game to game.
Cutscene.
And?
He'd be pretty close to flat in the first place, since he is Mini Kirby and he is ducking.
I fail to see how that is flat other than being a 2D image.
I wasn't saying he could lift Giga Bowser + the Clown Car, I was saying he could pull himself through the hole because he weighs less than 3.5 tons.
That makes no sense. Pulling yourself through a virtually nonexistent gap =/= lifting a weight.
Then Kirby heals the damage from the attack afterwards with a Maxim Tomato.
And the attacker attacks again (assuming that the initial attack didn't OHKO Kirby). Can Kirby eat a Tomato while in Stone, being hit, etc., and does this leave him unable to act ala gaining a Copy Ability?
Things that cause a launch provide the force.
Prove it.
I meant that Lumas have never turned into offensive transformations, so they can't turn into black holes.
Because...?
Power could also mean the powers (abilities) of the moves being used.
That doesn't make much sense, though. If they correlated to the powers of the moves, they wouldn't decrease after each use unless the moves decreased in effectiveness each use.
Have any proof of that?
There's an equal attack strength/PP ratio no matter the level of the Pokemon. The strength grows, so the PP does too.
Pokemon are used for battling, using their moves. That is their most basic function.
Pokemon breathe constantly, and stand/walk/fly more often than they do attack.
It is a black hole. It was confirmed.
By WoG, or a character?
Gameplay > real life. A lack of distortion isn't matter. It was said to be a black hole. It acts like a black hole. It looks like a black hole. It's a black hole. If you're going to use this, I might as well say that Sonic isn't a hedgehog, because hedgehogs aren't blue. He is said to be a hedgehog, he looks like a hedgehog, so he is a hedgehog. The colors of things don't matter here.
It could be a black hole. In fact, I think it's rather likely. However, a Kirby black hole =/= a real life black hole. Due to how many differences there are between Kirby and IRL black holes, we can't treat the Kirby enemy as the same as a real life black hole. The same goes with Sonic. He's a hedgehog, but he's very different from a hedgehog in real life. Let me use your example for my side. Hedgehogs cannot run at high speeds in real life, but Sonic can, so we treat him differently from a real hedgehog. Black holes don't let light out in real life, but they do in Kirby, so we treat them differently from real black holes.
I disagree. In gameplay, they need to make sure you can't stomp the game, so they might add things not accurate. If they added the durability Kirby's shown, you would stomp the game.
Or plot armor. Kirby getting damaged by explosions is more consistent.
All of gameplay/the rest of the series > four cutscenes.
Kirby has taken hits without losing his Copy Abilities before.
What type of attacks has he taken, and which ones will knock the Copy Ability out?
Kirby just waits until Sonic gets close.
At which point Sonic will be travelling at at least Mach 1.
I don't think Olimar could "very well be wrong".
He's a human (erm, Hocotatian), and thus prone to error.
He's got other things on his mind besides memories of the past. He's focused on receiving treasure to pay a debt.
Being focused on one thing doesn't prevent your bad memories from coming back to haunt you.
But it wasn't added by the American publishing team. The Dimensional Slicer was added by the American publishing team.
Was there a knife that could apparently slice dimensions in the original Japanese release?
A) It's not even on the list of rules yet.
B) Every other rule on that list is something most of us agree to. Because of it, that rule doesn't belong there.
A) Because one has not been compiled since that rule's approval.
B) No, every other rule is one that got a majority in voting.
Unprotected from what?
Attacks.
Ujas are about 2.5 Kirbies (20 inches), and Kirby can possess them. Lumas are about the same size.
View attachment 51251
I see. What is the process of possessing an enemy like; how fast/slow is it? Is Kirby vulnerable in Ghost form? Can Kirby be killed by defeating the possessed enemy?
It's not like the attacks would be accurate in the first place, Kirby is invisible.
Not before he uses the move.
Maybe we should take a vote on this.
Okay, I'd be fine with that.

@Nerdicon @Dryn @ Reckless Godwin 2.0 Reckless Godwin 2.0 Should remakes take precedence over the original game, or no?
Did you get the idea that it's an earthquake from "Geo" in the title? For all we know, it could be boulders falling on the opponents.
Dealt with above.
Marth would only use about, two swords. The Blue Tornado might slide them out, but probably not enough to make them fall, especially if Marth's hand is over them.
"Only two swords". Right. :p

I'd imagine a high-speed, Mach 1 (or higher) wind would knock your swords out.
It looked like about a second to me.
It does seem like about a second, yeah. Still rather fast, though.
 

Crystanium

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@Nerdicon @Dryn @ Reckless Godwin 2.0 Reckless Godwin 2.0 Should remakes take precedence over the original game, or no?
For the most part they should. I never use the information from the original Metroid because it's been retconned by Metroid: Zero Mission. Yet, there are details that have not been retconned or even addressed, such as Ridley being the last native of planet Zebes, or Samus being a cyborg.
 

Reckless Godwin 2.0

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It would prevent him from functioning. I'm curious how this works in-game, by the way.

Prove that they are. You're committing an argument from ignorance.
You can probably get a better idea of the corrupting effect of the Darksphere here http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Hardin#The_War_of_Heroes . His rather high FE3 book 2 stats imply he's more than capable of putting up a fight, otherwise Marth or one of his comrades could just walk up and take it from him without having to mortally wound him.

You’re guilty of the same.

Those attacks look pretty awesome. The wind kinds make me think of sonic wind, except when the tornado is used. "Rexcalibur" looks pretty devastating. Same with "Shine" and "Valaura".

Unfortunately, I am not good with probability.
Valaura is actually a corrupted Aura tome (the only visual difference is it uses purple rather than white light) and it poisons (FE poison is pretty weak because it hits for 1 to 3 damage once a turn on characters that could have 40-65 HP and wears off in 4 or so turns anyway) it’s victim as well. Regardless I wouldn’t want to be a heavily armored knight when we have these fire and thunder mages running around!

All the more reason to cultivate that skill. The best part is that the game lies to you with the displayed hit: Warning math involved http://serenesforest.net/general/true-hit/ .

Wow, that's a lot of nerd rage here.
Nerd rage is best rage!

The black holes in SMG don't look like black holes. A black hole should look like this.



Maybe it doesn't have the visuals correctly, but what about the effects, then? If Mario gets pulled into a black hole, is he spaghettified? Nope! He actually gets sucked in and swirls around the black hole, kind of like getting sucked into a sinkhole found in water. It seems odd to me that the structure around Mario is unaffected, but Mario is not. Interestingly, "black hole" is used with reference to certain types of sinkholes.
That Black Hole is pretty and so very visible.

So you’re saying that SMG Black Holes act more like whirlpools?

It's not just one cutscene he shows such durability.

Did you get the idea that it's an earthquake from "Geo" in the title? For all we know, it could be boulders falling on the opponents.
He survives getting chopped into four pieces and getting zapped by the main weaponry of the Halberd… twice. You want to just say he takes one point of damage from everything but only has 6 HP to begin with?

You mean something like this: https://youtu.be/utmt22SZCmY?t=42 at 0:43, 1:02, 1:14, 1:22, and 1:33.

I think we should include information from both the original and the remake, but use the remake in the case of a contradiction.
Are you calling for a composite version when there are no contradictions? That could be important for a composite Link.
 

Munomario777

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You can probably get a better idea of the corrupting effect of the Darksphere here http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Hardin#The_War_of_Heroes . His rather high FE3 book 2 stats imply he's more than capable of putting up a fight, otherwise Marth or one of his comrades could just walk up and take it from him without having to mortally wound him.
I see.
You’re guilty of the same.
Argument from ignorance relies solely on the lack of evidence for the other side. I believe that the Badniks aren't made of tin because they resemble military-grade material in appearance, and it just makes the most sense for what the Badniks are supposed to be (military-grade combat robots).
He survives getting chopped into four pieces and getting zapped by the main weaponry of the Halberd… twice. You want to just say he takes one point of damage from everything but only has 6 HP to begin with?
We're not using HP bars.
Are you calling for a composite version when there are no contradictions? That could be important for a composite Link.
Yes, pretty much. Of course, this assumes that the remake is actually official, but that goes without saying. In the case of games with multiple remakes (i.e. Sonic 1 for the Genesis), we should use the latest remake.
 

Crystanium

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That Black Hole is pretty and so very visible.
Only because of the stars behind it with the gravitational lensing. There's something called "vantablack", which absorbs 99.965% of visible light. This is how it looks.


You wouldn't be able to see black holes in space. I believe it's because space is dark and it's a hard vacuum. The only time you'd be able to see it is if there were plenty of stars so you could see the gravitational lensing, or if there was matter swirling right into it.

So you’re saying that SMG Black Holes act more like whirlpools?
More like a vacuum, really.
 

Reckless Godwin 2.0

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Only because of the stars behind it with the gravitational lensing.

You wouldn't be able to see black holes in space. I believe it's because space is dark and it's a hard vacuum. The only time you'd be able to see it is if there were plenty of stars so you could see the gravitational lensing, or if there was matter swirling right into it.

More like a vacuum, really.
I have some knowledge of astronomy but I meant that the void in the middle of that picture was likely the effect of a black hole (although there are supposed to be some huge swaths of empty space out there in the wider universe that might not be related to them).

okay understood.
 

ShadowLBlue

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It depends. First we need to know how much damage each HP point represents. If Kirby has been hit with a force equal to that of Sonic's attack and sustained only one HP, then yes, he could take six of them.
As far as I'm aware he only loses one HP when hit with any attack, regardless of the attack strength.


Black holes rely on gravity, and Stone Kirby has increased gravity, so if this doesn't pull him in, then it doesn't seem to match a real black hole. Also, I seem to remember a lack of distortion, but I'm not sure.
Possibly, but it's also possible Lumas don't turn into "real" black holes either.

I think it would be nice to have TP, TWW, OoT/MM, and Composite Link all on one list.
I'm against it but if everyone else wants to IDC.

Interesting. Can Marth use multiple spheres at once, and does he have to do anything to equip them at the start of a battle?
That I don't know.


.
You're the one who made the claim they can't be cut by his sword, I thinkk the burden of proof's on you. Especially if you're opinion's a minority one like it seems like it is.
I will say we know his sword can cut through armor, so I don't see why i wouldn't cut through Badniks who explode after being hit while being jumped on by animals jumping from a standstill.

@ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue
I don’t own a Wii U yet, but Mario Kart 8 is considered mandatory here where I live as my younger brother and his friends have been playing Double Dash before the Walking Dead goes on.
You don’t know me, I’m just an anonymous poster on the internet!
lol yes, I meant know you as in I could contact you rather than waiting/searching for random strangers. You're a somewhat known stranger lol.

I don’t blame you for emulating to escape those obnoxious scalpers and those funds would be better used to purchase Fire Emblem if and it’s DLC.
I don’t know if they will release Radiant Dawn on the Wii U’s virtual console because of the data transfer feature from Path of Radiance (Jill and Nephenee get a substantial boost if you can carry over a strength and speed bonus).
I'm not holding my breath on it.
There’s only a 1 in 947 chance of that happening so it’s hardly unheard of, and at least nobody died right? The opposite seems to occur more often because the Epic Fail moments are more memorable then the times you evade multiple moderate accuracy attacks. Think about how often the A.I. gets screwed over by your own critical hits and misses.
They do get screwed over in terms of criticals, but I really feel like they benefit from hit more than we do.

I said Algebra because that’s how I figured out the relationship between things like Speed and Luck adding up to the Avoid stat. Ex. Avoid=Speed*2+Luck translates to X=Y*2+Z. The same can be said for pretty much all formulas that work behind the scenes in RPGs.
I suck at math so...

Too bad the Pokemon fans would rather have a Game Freak + Monolith Soft collaboration for their open world Pokemon game.
I'd love to play that too! An open world pokemon for a console is a dream of mine.

I mean you can purchase it for cheap off of Steam (it even comes with the DLC) and it’s constantly been joked that it can run on a toaster. I’ve heard the bugs on this port are easy to avoid or don’t break the game. It’s definitely one of the best former PS3 exclusives and one of Sega’s best games from that generation.
How would I know if my computer can handle Steam?
Looking forward to Xenoblade Chronicles X and Fire Emblem if?
XCX: Not as much after hearing that the story is very watered down compared to XC, but hopefully the exploration and combat are as fun as I hear to make up for the lack of story.
FEif: YES. Been gobbling up every morsel of news like my life depends on it. Awakening was m favorite so I have high expectations.
What about you?

Don’t you mean the Flash, considering he gets OHKOed by everything without his precious rings.
Well he has his rings so it's a bit of a moot point in this discussion..

@Dryn, @ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue , @ Munomario777 Munomario777 , @ Kirby Dragons Kirby Dragons , @Nerdicon
How are we going to handle stealing the equipment of other combatants?

  1. Characters can steal equipment from each other all wily-nily.
  2. Characters can steal equipment from each other except from characters that have feats for holding onto their items (Link’s grip with the Hook Shot (but not money, arrows or bombs since thieves and rats can swipe those) and the Fire Emblem characters equipped weapons (and unequipped weapons and items too if the would be thief is too slow or weak).
  3. Characters can only steal equipment if they have shown that aptitude in canon (Mewtwo’s trick and Toon Link’s grappling hook).
  4. You can steal from helpless combatants (sleeping, paralyzed, dazed, etc).
  5. No stealing allowed.
  1. No
  2. No. You can't see where they are holding them in hammer space/magic bag, so how would they know what to steal when they have several items.
  3. Yes. And no stealing equipped weapons unless they have an ability to do so and character hasn't been proven to resist thefts.
  4. Yes, but only one thing at a time and they have to have a place to hold it. A character without a magic bag or hammer space (ex. Mewtwo) can't just steal all of his weapons and hold on to them. Although I guess there's nothing stopping them from just throwing them on the ground randomly.
  5. No.
 

Munomario777

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As far as I'm aware he only loses one HP when hit with any attack, regardless of the attack strength.
So, what's the most powerful attack (or one of the most powerful) in the Kirby games, and how much HP does Kirby lose?
Possibly, but it's also possible Lumas don't turn into "real" black holes either.
Fair enough.
That I don't know.
Ah, okay.
You're the one who made the claim they can't be cut by his sword, I thinkk the burden of proof's on you. Especially if you're opinion's a minority one like it seems like it is.
He's the one who made the unproved assertion.
I will say we know his sword can cut through armor, so I don't see why i wouldn't cut through Badniks who explode after being hit while being jumped on by animals jumping from a standstill.
Animals with razor-sharp buzzsaw blades for hair.
 

Kirby Dragons

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Votes for the President aren't redone the next week because people changed their mind.
That's irrelevant here, we were talking about votes for rules in the government. That's more of a match.
Would you happen to have footage of this?
It's not something he has done, he was just charging up power to do it in the first movie.
A) No, because Super Shadow never attacks Super Sonic in the first place. This is a loaded question.
B) I fail to see how this relates to attacks.
A) You said that games > Sonic X. There is nothing about that in the games, so that means that Sonic X is the source here. There is no contradiction.

Earlier, you said that Super Shadow's invincibility (an attribute) is equal to Protect (a technique). An attribute of something would equal an ability in the Pokeverse, meaning that Protect ≠ Super Shadow in the first place.
A) They're both part of the voting system.
B) I think we started tagging users for votes since the original Chao Garden vote.
A) No, one of the things is the voting system, while taking votes is part of the system.
B) We started tagging users around page 117. We took the original vote around page 20.
Correct. For the car, it could be a match, and for Marx, it's Kirby.
How can a match make a car explode?
And? That's not the definition of "statement".
You asked when it was stated. Stating something yourself doesn't count for that question.
Have they been shown to do this at high enough speeds to deal any decent damage?
Birdon, Bonkers, Capsule J2, Wheelie, Gim, and others have done attacks like this at rather low speeds, actually.
Or we could use gravity, falling speed, etc. to calculate it.
Don't think that would be very far off from the gravity/falling speed of an actual rollerskate's wheel.
Meta Knight is faster.
The Warp Star is pretty fast too.
No, more like the metal armor that the Badniks actually resemble.
Picture, please?
It takes a couple of seconds, and Sonic could easily get enough room by creating a gap with his speed.
Something I've been ignoring is that when Sonic is charging up a Spin Dash/Light Speed Attack, Kirby can always use Sleep, and Sonic falls asleep after hitting him. After that, Kirby goes Baton, and blows Sonic up. I also imagine Kirby can use Baton during the LSA's charge.
He could go through the Helper.
And then he falls asleep.
Ownership of a sandwich is possessing that sandwich, having the right to eat it, etc. Ownership of an attack in the context of friendly fire is most often having caused that attack, but this can vary from game to game.
Sectonia caused the attack, seeing as she turned into it.
Cutscenes are more accurate.
I fail to see how that is flat other than being a 2D image.
Didn't say it was flat, said it was almost flat.
That makes no sense. Pulling yourself through a virtually nonexistent gap =/= lifting a weight.
He'd be "lifting" himself through the gap.
And the attacker attacks again (assuming that the initial attack didn't OHKO Kirby). Can Kirby eat a Tomato while in Stone, being hit, etc., and does this leave him unable to act ala gaining a Copy Ability?
There aren't that many attacks that would do OHKO Kirby, other from Shulk and such. Yes, yes, and no; he can gain a Copy Ability while he's healing.
Prove it.
As I've said earlier, force is caused by motion. The definition of launch is "start or set in motion". The force comes from the motion, and the amount of motion is dependent on the launching force.
Because...?
They can't turn into offensive transformations. Black holes are an offensive transformation.
That doesn't make much sense, though. If they correlated to the powers of the moves, they wouldn't decrease after each use unless the moves decreased in effectiveness each use.
PP being energy doesn't make much sense either, for aforementioned reasons.
There's an equal attack strength/PP ratio no matter the level of the Pokemon. The strength grows, so the PP does too.
There isn't an equal strength/PP ratio. The attack strength of a ratio grows, PP doesn't, so the ratio is constantly changing.
Pokemon breathe constantly, and stand/walk/fly more often than they do attack.
Most of the time, Pokemon are converted into energy, inside their Pokeballs. When they're not, they are attacking (or using other moves) rather constantly.
By WoG, or a character?
By a character. The character's word > your word, seeing as the character heard it from someone who's experienced it.
It could be a black hole. In fact, I think it's rather likely. However, a Kirby black hole =/= a real life black hole. Due to how many differences there are between Kirby and IRL black holes, we can't treat the Kirby enemy as the same as a real life black hole. The same goes with Sonic. He's a hedgehog, but he's very different from a hedgehog in real life. Let me use your example for my side. Hedgehogs cannot run at high speeds in real life, but Sonic can, so we treat him differently from a real hedgehog. Black holes don't let light out in real life, but they do in Kirby, so we treat them differently from real black holes.
However, the basic function of the Kirby black hole is the same as the basic function of the real life black hole. Sucking things up with intense killing power. So because of this, if Kirby can escape the suction of the Schwarz' black hole, he could escape the suction of a real one.
Or plot armor. Kirby getting damaged by explosions is more consistent.
Nah.
All of gameplay/the rest of the series > four cutscenes.
By the way, it actually makes sense that Kirby would be this durable, seeing as he's a squishy puffball. Like how a cotton ball could survive an airplane falling on it.
What type of attacks has he taken, and which ones will knock the Copy Ability out?
Kirby can take all attacks without losing Copy Abilities.
At which point Sonic will be travelling at at least Mach 1.
He'll still be touching Kirby, so Sleep will work here.
He's a human (erm, Hocotatian), and thus prone to error.
This doesn't seem like an error, however.
Being focused on one thing doesn't prevent your bad memories from coming back to haunt you.
We don't see any signs of the bad memories coming back anyways.
Was there a knife that could apparently slice dimensions in the original Japanese release?
No, but a "knife that could apparently slice dimensions" isn't an attribute. "Slicing through dimensions" is an attribute, but the American publishers didn't add it to anything.
A) Because one has not been compiled since that rule's approval.
B) No, every other rule is one that got a majority in voting.
A) But you claimed that the rule was on the list. It's on no list.
B) And most of us want to keep it on there.
What kinds of attacks?
I see. What is the process of possessing an enemy like; how fast/slow is it? Is Kirby vulnerable in Ghost form? Can Kirby be killed by defeating the possessed enemy?
Kirby zooms forward into an enemy. The zoom takes about a second after a second of delay, but it is faster if Kirby possesses an enemy. Kirby is vulnerable in Ghost form (unless using Vanish, which makes him invisible and intangible). While possessing an enemy, Kirby can't be hit, only the possessed enemy can be. Kirby is not killed when the enemy is defeated.
Not before he uses the move.
Actually, Kirby uses Hide Guard while he's being hit, so hitting him wouldn't be that much effective.
Dealt with above.
How? I didn't see that.
"Only two swords". Right. :p
Falchion and the Rapier. I don't know of any other swords he'd be using.
I'd imagine a high-speed, Mach 1 (or higher) wind would knock your swords out.
Then Marth picks them back up.
It does seem like about a second, yeah. Still rather fast, though.
This wouldn't be a problem, due to Sol/picking up the swords.
He survives getting chopped into four pieces and getting zapped by the main weaponry of the Halberd… twice. You want to just say he takes one point of damage from everything but only has 6 HP to begin with?
That's already what happens. I think I've shown that it would take pretty strong attacks to do any damage to Kirby whatsoever.
You mean something like this: https://youtu.be/utmt22SZCmY?t=42 at 0:43, 1:02, 1:14, 1:22, and 1:33.
Something like that. It could be that, an earthquake, rising rock columns that hit the foes. Etcetera.
We're not using HP bars.
That isn't a health bar.
 
Last edited:

Munomario777

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That's irrelevant here, we were talking about votes for rules in the government. That's more of a match.
So tell me, are U.S. laws recalled the next day because someone changed their mind?
It's not something he has done, he was just charging up power to do it in the first movie.
Then why would we take it into account?
A) You said that games > Sonic X. There is nothing about that in the games, so that means that Sonic X is the source here. There is no contradiction.
In the games, Super Sonic is invulnerable to attacks that are stronger than a punch (i.e. explosions).
Earlier, you said that Super Shadow's invincibility (an attribute) is equal to Protect (a technique). An attribute of something would equal an ability in the Pokeverse, meaning that Protect ≠ Super Shadow in the first place.
A) And invincibility is irrelevant to the effectiveness of a punch.
B) So the amount of damage a move deals is an Ability also, then?
A) No, one of the things is the voting system, while taking votes is part of the system.
B) We started tagging users around page 117. We took the original vote around page 20.
A) Yes, taking votes is part of the voting system.
B) Thank you for proving my point.
How can a match make a car explode?
By igniting the gas tank.
You asked when it was stated. Stating something yourself doesn't count for that question.
Stating something evidenced by the games does.
Birdon, Bonkers, Capsule J2, Wheelie, Gim, and others have done attacks like this at rather low speeds, actually.
How much force does that cause?
Don't think that would be very far off from the gravity/falling speed of an actual rollerskate's wheel.
We should do the math before jumping to conclusions.
The Warp Star is pretty fast too.
And often unavailable.

I'd also imagine that Meta Knight would be nice to have as a regular Helper throughout the rest of the level, no?
Picture, please?

Of course, I doubt that the Badniks actually have tank armor on, but it's the same basic idea.
Something I've been ignoring is that when Sonic is charging up a Spin Dash/Light Speed Attack, Kirby can always use Sleep, and Sonic falls asleep after hitting him. After that, Kirby goes Baton, and blows Sonic up. I also imagine Kirby can use Baton during the LSA's charge.
The charging period of a Spin Dash damages enemies, including Kirby. Can Kirby use Sleep on, say, spiked enemies?
And then he falls asleep.
Because...?
Sectonia caused the attack, seeing as she turned into it.
Kirby caused the attack, seeing as how he caused the transformation.
Cutscenes are more accurate.
Because?
Didn't say it was flat, said it was almost flat.
I fail to see how that resembles being flat.
He'd be "lifting" himself through the gap.
Okay, try that in real life and let me know how that works out.
There aren't that many attacks that would do OHKO Kirby, other from Shulk and such. Yes, yes, and no; he can gain a Copy Ability while he's healing.
That depends on the most powerful attack that does OHKO Kirby.
As I've said earlier, force is caused by motion. The definition of launch is "start or set in motion". The force comes from the motion, and the amount of motion is dependent on the launching force.
Yes, Marx's motion comes from Marx's launching force.
They can't turn into offensive transformations. Black holes are an offensive transformation.
When is it stated that Las are incapable of transforming into "offensive" things? They do transform into harmful things; the galaxies they become contain hazards.
PP being energy doesn't make much sense either, for aforementioned reasons.
It makes more sense than the alternative.
There isn't an equal strength/PP ratio. The attack strength of a ratio grows, PP doesn't, so the ratio is constantly changing.
I'm referring to the amount of energy that one PP equates to, not the total amount of PP.
Most of the time, Pokemon are converted into energy, inside their Pokeballs. When they're not, they are attacking (or using other moves) rather constantly.
Those are results of human interference.
By a character. The character's word > your word, seeing as the character heard it from someone who's experienced it.
We don't know that he experienced it.
However, the basic function of the Kirby black hole is the same as the basic function of the real life black hole. Sucking things up with intense killing power. So because of this, if Kirby can escape the suction of the Schwarz' black hole, he could escape the suction of a real one.
In that case, my vacuum cleaner = a black hole.
On what grounds?
By the way, it actually makes sense that Kirby would be this durable, seeing as he's a squishy puffball. Like how a cotton ball could survive an airplane falling on it.
Cotton balls cannot die.
Kirby can take all attacks without losing Copy Abilities.
So attacks don't knock them out, or...?
He'll still be touching Kirby, so Sleep will work here.
And Sonic would still be ramming into him at high speeds.
This doesn't seem like an error, however.
Saying that a regular pocket knife can slice through dimensions seems like an error to me.
We don't see any signs of the bad memories coming back anyways.
It's not always apparent.
No, but a "knife that could apparently slice dimensions" isn't an attribute. "Slicing through dimensions" is an attribute, but the American publishers didn't add it to anything.
There is a knife stated to slice through dimensions in the American release. There is not in the Japanese release. Therefore, it wasn't intended by the developers (unless there's evidence that they had a hand in this part of the translation).
A) But you claimed that the rule was on the list. It's on no list.
B) And most of us want to keep it on there.
A) Because there is no list for it to be on. @ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue this might be a good time to compile the list again.
B) Intentions could have changed.
What kinds of attacks?
Any attacks. He's not in Stone form.
Kirby zooms forward into an enemy. The zoom takes about a second after a second of delay, but it is faster if Kirby possesses an enemy. Kirby is vulnerable in Ghost form (unless using Vanish, which makes him invisible and intangible). While possessing an enemy, Kirby can't be hit, only the possessed enemy can be. Kirby is not killed when the enemy is defeated.
I see. So Rosalina could probably catch on and take care of the problem, then.
Actually, Kirby uses Hide Guard while he's being hit, so hitting him wouldn't be that much effective.
True, but quicker attacks could catch him off guard.
How? I didn't see that.
Earlier in the thread, I mean.
Falchion and the Rapier. I don't know of any other swords he'd be using.
I know; I'm just commenting on how two swords is treated as a low amount, which I find humorous. :p
Then Marth picks them back up.
And Sonic attacks while he does so.
This wouldn't be a problem, due to Sol/picking up the swords.
Sol only heals every once in a while.
That isn't a health bar.
HP, health bar, same difference.
 

Lenrap

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Guys, Duck Hunt Dog is the strongest character canonically. He can survive a bullet without even flinching or noticing it. It does absolutely nothing. So, we can assume the dog is invincible.
 

Warlock*G

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Guys, Duck Hunt Dog is the strongest character canonically. He can survive a bullet without even flinching or noticing it. It does absolutely nothing. So, we can assume the dog is invincible.
Debate over.

Someone close this topic.
 

ShadowLBlue

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Dec 8, 2014
Messages
191
So, what's the most powerful attack (or one of the most powerful) in the Kirby games, and how much HP does Kirby lose?
You'd have to ask Nerdicon or KD. They can give a better answer.


He's the one who made the unproved assertion.
I think most of us are the impression they aren't made of anything super hard, certainly not harder than any armor that Marth can cut through in-game.

Animals with razor-sharp buzzsaw blades for hair.
Only applies to Sonic and Shadow. I've never seen anything to indicate the other animals have blade like hair.

Also what rule are you talking about that KD says isn't on a list?
 

Woohoo982

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Clobberin' dat dere Kirby
Nice idea Dryn! I'll go ahead and do that for Sonic. However, I won't be including species-related things (i.e. gender ratio, egg group) since Sonic isn't a species. Anyway, let's get started:

GENERAL INFORMATION
Name: Sonic
Type: Fighting/Steel (his quills are as sharp as a razor blade)
Ability: Sturdy (protects against OHKO attacks, similarly to the Rings)
Hidden Ability: Run Away
Height: 3'3" (100 cm)
Weight: 77 lb (35 kg)
Leveling rate: Fast (he learns new tricks every other game)
Body style: Bipedal, tailed form
Footprint: ???

STATS

Attack: High (especially when applying speed to attacks)
Defense: Extremely Low (he gets killed instantly with no Rings)
Special Attack: Moderate (he has some nice ranged attacks, but nothing too special)
Special Defense: Very Low (see Defense)
Speed: Extremely High (do I even need to explain this?)
Range: Very High (he never tires out while running)
Evasion: Very High (his reaction time and speed make him an expert at dodging)
Accuracy: Very High (many attacks have homing properties, and he's got great control over his speed)

I won't be going through moves and such, because A) there's not always going to be a direct match and B) I don't want this to take too long. :p
Im doing this for R.O.B.

INFO
Name: R.O.B
Type:Steel/Fire(shoots lasers and is a robot)
Abilities:Sturdy(he's damn heavy)Heavy Metal(in real LIFE he's damn heavy)
Hidden:Flash Fire
Height:3'5
Weight:120 kg
Leveling rate:Slow(Where is R.O.B 2.0?)
Body Style:Humanoid
Egg Group:Mineral
Footprint:Octagonal footprint
Gender:Genderless

STATS
Attack:Medium(He's ok...)
Defence:High as the Sky(He's practically unbreakable)
Speed:Snail(Slow boot-up,slow in life)
Sp.Attack:High as the Sky(He shoots lasers)
Sp.Defense:Low(not so good taking them,though...)

Signature Move:
Gyro
Steel Type
Power:90
 

Munomario777

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Im doing this for R.O.B.

INFO
Name: R.O.B
Type:Steel/Fire(shoots lasers and is a robot)
Abilities:Sturdy(he's damn heavy)Heavy Metal(in real LIFE he's damn heavy)
Hidden:Flash Fire
Height:3'5
Weight:120 kg
Leveling rate:Slow(Where is R.O.B 2.0?)
Body Style:Humanoid
Egg Group:Mineral
Footprint:Octagonal footprint
Gender:Genderless

STATS
Attack:Medium(He's ok...)
Defence:High as the Sky(He's practically unbreakable)
Speed:Snail(Slow boot-up,slow in life)
Sp.Attack:High as the Sky(He shoots lasers)
Sp.Defense:Low(not so good taking them,though...)

Signature Move:
Gyro
Steel Type
Power:90
Hate to break it to you, but we're not using Smash as a canon source, so things like lasers, high defense, etc. aren't taken into account here. Nice analysis though.
 

Kirby Dragons

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So tell me, are U.S. laws recalled the next day because someone changed their mind?
Not always the next day, but votes are retaken when a rule needs to be changed.
Then why would we take it into account?
Because of the fact that Mewtwo has the capability to do it.
In the games, Super Sonic is invulnerable to attacks that are stronger than a punch (i.e. explosions).
Now that I remember, Super Sonic (Invincible Mario as well) is vulnerable to lava, so any attack stronger than that should work.
Stuff like this.
A) And invincibility is irrelevant to the effectiveness of a punch.
B) So the amount of damage a move deals is an Ability also, then?
See above.
A) Yes, taking votes is part of the voting system.
B) Thank you for proving my point.
A) But the voting system is not part of the voting system.
B) Page 120, I meant to say.
By igniting the gas tank.
Weakness exploiting, basically. There were no such weaknesses Kirby could've exploited in Marx to cause him to rocket off, meaning it was done by force.
Stating something evidenced by the games does.
But the evidence in the games isn't a statement.
How much force does that cause?
An average amount of damage.
We should do the math before jumping to conclusions.
I'm not entirely sure that would solve anything, really.
And often unavailable.
Kirby hasn't actually experienced MK flying that fast, so he wouldn't know about it.
I'd also imagine that Meta Knight would be nice to have as a regular Helper throughout the rest of the level, no?
Doing attacks, yes.

Of course, I doubt that the Badniks actually have tank armor on, but it's the same basic idea.
Tanks have steel armor. Some Badniks hold steel shields. The Badniks can be torn through, but not the shields. Because of this, we know that the Badniks are softer than steel, and therefore softer than tanks.
The charging period of a Spin Dash damages enemies, including Kirby. Can Kirby use Sleep on, say, spiked enemies?
He can use it on Needle Kirby.
Because...?
of Sleep Kirby.
Kirby caused the attack, seeing as how he caused the transformation.
But Sectonia was the one who actually caused the transformation.
I've already explained this.
I fail to see how that resembles being flat.
I take it as rather close. Even more so, because Kirby is Mini Kirby.

This discussion is pretty irrelevant though, Kirby is already out of the Clown Car through ninja teleportation, and flying into Bowser's eyes to do quite a bit of pain. Or shooting them to create a crater. Ultra Sword Kirby could also chop him in half (seeing as he can chop through mountains).
Okay, try that in real life and let me know how that works out.
I have neither the strength nor the physiology of Kirby.
That depends on the most powerful attack that does OHKO Kirby.
That would probably be the black hole of a Schwarz.
Yes, Marx's motion comes from Marx's launching force.
This wasn't Marx's launching force. It was Kirby's, seeing as Kirby was the one who launched him with his attack.
When is it stated that Las are incapable of transforming into "offensive" things? They do transform into harmful things; the galaxies they become contain hazards.
But the galaxies aren't designed for offense, mainly for helping out Mario.
It makes more sense than the alternative.
Why do you say that?
I'm referring to the amount of energy that one PP equates to, not the total amount of PP.
The ratio still changes.
Those are results of human interference.
What does that have to do with anything?
We don't know that he experienced it.
So why would he talk about it?
In that case, my vacuum cleaner = a black hole.
Argument is invalid, seeing as vacuum cleaners don't have intense killing power, nor have anyone said they are black holes.
On what grounds?
As I've mentioned several times before, cutscenes are more accurate.
Cotton balls cannot die.
Yet, they can be destroyed.
So attacks don't knock them out, or...?
They do, but it just takes a lot of damage to knock them out. Either multiple weak hits, or a few strong ones.
And Sonic would still be ramming into him at high speeds.
And then falling sleep, being taken control of, and then being blown up. Or, being taken control of during the charge time of Spin Attack/Light Speed Attack. Kirby will take no damage if he does the latter. If he does the former, he can simply heal himself.
Saying that a regular pocket knife can slice through dimensions seems like an error to me.
That is, circular reasoning.
It's not always apparent.
If we never see it in the game, it is quite likely that it is never there at all.
There is a knife stated to slice through dimensions in the American release. There is not in the Japanese release. Therefore, it wasn't intended by the developers (unless there's evidence that they had a hand in this part of the translation).
However, it does appear, and it is something Olimar used in the official game.
A) Because there is no list for it to be on. @ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue this might be a good time to compile the list again.
B) Intentions could have changed.
B) I don't think any of them did, but we can account for them if they did change.
Any attacks. He's not in Stone form.
Which doesn't exactly matter if Kirby dodges the attacks. I am also quite unaware of any long-ranged attacks that a Luma could use during this time. They'd have to get close, and Kirby would be gone.
I see. So Rosalina could probably catch on and take care of the problem, then.
How?
True, but quicker attacks could catch him off guard.
The only quick attack I know of that Lumas can use is shooting Star Bits, which are close-range, and therefore can be dodged rather easily.
Earlier in the thread, I mean.
How was it settled?
I know; I'm just commenting on how two swords is treated as a low amount, which I find humorous. :p
Oh.
And Sonic attacks while he does so.
He'd be touching Falchion, so any attack quick enough to hit him at the moment would be negated.
Sol only heals every once in a while.
Rightful King will take care of this, and Marth can also use a Vulnerary to heal himself instead.
HP, health bar, same difference.
There is a rule that every character with a health system that isn't a health bar would get the health system. I don't exactly like the rule, but that's the way it is.
Also what rule are you talking about that KD says isn't on a list?
The invincibility rule, that says all invincibility items/techniques would be treated the same.

I'm saying we shouldn't use it though, because most of us don't want to.
 
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Munomario777

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Not always the next day, but votes are retaken when a rule needs to be changed.
List some examples of rules needing to be changed (and actually resulted in rules being changed), and see if any of them match up with the reasons you're providing to change our rules.
Because of the fact that Mewtwo has the capability to do it.
When is this proven?
Now that I remember, Super Sonic is vulnerable to lava (Invincible Mario as well), so any attack stronger than that should work.
Stuff like this.
He can stand on lava.
See above.
Where?
A) But the voting system is not part of the voting system.
B) Page 120, I meant to say.
A) And? I never said that it was. The tagging and the vote compiling are both part of the voting system.
B) I don't see anything about a Chao Garden vote there.

Has anyone actually changed their stance since the original vote anyways?
Weakness exploiting, basically. There were no such weaknesses Kirby could've exploited in Marx to cause him to rocket off, meaning it was done by force.
A sledgehammer could hit a container housing two chemicals that, when combined, explode violently. The sledgehammer destroys the container, and the two chemicals mix, resulting in an explosion. Does this explosion come directly from the sledgehammer's striking force? No.
But the evidence in the games isn't a statement.
And this matters because...?
I'm not entirely sure that would solve anything, really.
It would solve the weight of Wheel Kirby, which would solve the rollerskate wheel deal.
Kirby hasn't actually experienced MK flying that fast, so he wouldn't know about it.
He flies away quickly at the end of this boss battle.
Doing attacks, yes.
So why would Kirby tell him to attack once and then go away as opposed to staying by his side throughout the level (or game, for that matter)?
Tanks have steel armor. Some Badniks hold steel shields. The Badniks can be torn through, but not the shields. Because of this, we know that the Badniks are softer than steel, and therefore softer than tanks.
Who says the shields are made out of steel?
He can use it on Needle Kirby.
Kirby can attack himself...?
of Sleep Kirby.
Who would still get killed.
But Sectonia was the one who actually caused the transformation.
How so? Sectonia is the one that exploded, but not necessarily the cause. I could cause an apple to fall from a shelf by tilting the shelf, but the apple wasn't the cause of its own fall.
I take it as rather close. Even more so, because Kirby is Mini Kirby.
Has Mini Kirby ever pulled himself through nearly nonexistent cracks like the one the Clown Car would provide?
This discussion is pretty irrelevant though, Kirby is already out of the Clown Car through ninja teleportation, and flying into Bowser's eyes to do quite a bit of pain. Or shooting them to create a crater. Ultra Sword Kirby could also chop him in half (seeing as he can chop through mountains).
Ninja teleportation only gets him so far, and Bowser could just move the clown car again.

Bowser could just close his eyes.

When does Kirby create a crater?

Ground Pounds can crush rocks, yet they don't affect Bowser at normal size (let alone giant size).
I have neither the strength nor the physiology of Kirby.
When is it said, shown, etc that Kirby has that sort of strength/physiology, in addition to defying physics in that way?
That would probably be the black hole of a Schwarz.
How powerful is it? (Don't say "it's a black hole" because that means nothing when we're talking about a Kirby black hole.)
This wasn't Marx's launching force. It was Kirby's, seeing as Kirby was the one who launched him with his attack.
See the above shelf example. Kirby sent Marx sideways, Marx went flying upwards. Kirby did not send Marx upwards.
But the galaxies aren't designed for offense, mainly for helping out Mario.
Then explain all the hazards.
Why do you say that?
"Power" as in "strength of the attack" doesn't make sense because an attack with 1 PP is as strong as one with 100 PP left. "Power" as in "energy required to use the attack" makes sense because the Pokemon uses PP each time the move is used, and cannot move a use with no PP left.
The ratio still changes.
How so?
What does that have to do with anything?
They're not natural basic functions.
So why would he talk about it?
You can ask Olimar about that. People are known to lie/make mistakes; it's in our nature.
Argument is invalid, seeing as vacuum cleaners don't have intense killing power, nor have anyone said they are black holes.
Vacuum cleaners kill dust and dirt. I could say that it's a "black hole", and be correct because many vacuum cleaners involve holes that are black or dark (which might also be what the Kirby character means; that or hyperbole).
As I've mentioned several times before, cutscenes are more accurate.
You'll have to prove that assertion before you can use it.
Yet, they can be destroyed.
True. We see this durability to crushing with the fact that Kirby survives crushing in his games. However, cottonballs are still destroyed by explosions.
They do, but it just takes a lot of damage to knock them out. Either multiple weak hits, or a few strong ones.
What type of attack will knock them out?
And then falling sleep, being taken control of, and then being blown up. Or, being taken control of during the charge time of Spin Attack/Light Speed Attack. Kirby will take no damage if he does the latter. If he does the former, he can simply heal himself.
You're forgetting the fact that Sonic is moving at light speed by this point, which would decimate Kirby. As for being taken control of during the charge, Sonic could just go to the other side of the arena, out of Baton's range.
How so? It's a regular looking knife that we don't see have dimensional-ripping abilities, and there's nothing else besides unreliable character quotes to indicate that it has dimensional-ripping abilities, so we can conclude that it has no dimensional-ripping abilities.
If we never see it in the game, it is quite likely that it is never there at all.
He should be under high levels of stress. Let's see what could contribute to this:
  • He's just crash landed on a planet, and been sent tumbling out of his spaceship.
  • Before crash landing, Louie fell out of the ship, with a high likelihood of death.
  • That planet is one that likely scarred him for life during the first game, and that was just the other day.
Yeah, pretty intense situation here.
However, it does appear, and it is something Olimar used in the official game.
When does he use this exactly?
B) I don't think any of them did, but we can account for them if they did change.
K.
Which doesn't exactly matter if Kirby dodges the attacks. I am also quite unaware of any long-ranged attacks that a Luma could use during this time. They'd have to get close, and Kirby would be gone.
If an attack lasts for a long time (i.e. a celestial object), Kirby still gets hit when he reappears.
By killing the Luma.
The only quick attack I know of that Lumas can use is shooting Star Bits, which are close-range, and therefore can be dodged rather easily.
Star Bits can travel long distances.
How was it settled?
In a conversation I had with another user.
He'd be touching Falchion, so any attack quick enough to hit him at the moment would be negated.
If the sword is on the ground, he'll have to bend over, which would take a second. This is assuming that it's not flung a distance away, of course, which a Mach 1+ tornado would likely do/
Rightful King will take care of this, and Marth can also use a Vulnerary to heal himself instead.
Rightful King only increases it by 10%, and Vulnerary doesn't heal that much.
There is a rule that every character with a health system that isn't a health bar would get the health system. I don't exactly like the rule, but that's the way it is.
The rule includes all health systems that represent a character's durability, whether it be a number or a bar.
 

Crystanium

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You guys are running out of ideas.
I was right to encourage closure of this topic... :troll:
Opinion.

If the sword is on the ground, he'll have to bend over, which would take a second. This is assuming that it's not flung a distance away, of course, which a Mach 1+ tornado would likely do
Where are you getting this "Mach 1+ tornado"?
 
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Reckless Godwin 2.0

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@ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue
I'm not holding my breath on it.

They do get screwed over in terms of criticals, but I really feel like they benefit from hit more than we do.

I suck at math so...

How would I know if my computer can handle Steam?

XCX: Not as much after hearing that the story is very watered down compared to XC, but hopefully the exploration and combat are as fun as I hear to make up for the lack of story.
FEif: YES. Been gobbling up every morsel of news like my life depends on it. Awakening was m favorite so I have high expectations.
What about you?
Agreed.

I thought accuracy was lower across the board in FE6 (compared to FE7: swords down 5, lances down 10-15, axes down 10-15, bows down 5, Light down 20!). I also noticed that all the magic tomes have noticeably lower weight stats in FE6, which means the magic users got a nerf in the following two games (AS=Spd-(Wt-Con)0 if negative)). Don’t forget that you can use terrain better than the A.I. . You also get supports that the A.I. can’t even use themselves: no spoilers on this page http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/characters/supports/calculation/ .

Ask Dryn to help you and show him the formulas I’ve posted.

Don’t they have requirements for every game posted in the description? Are you saying your computer can’t even run the Steam client? If so I hope you can get a stronger computer soon because that one sounds ancient.

XCX: Who told you the story is watered down, the sky is falling brigade (AKA the faces suck, they downgraded the graphics, It‘s a monster Hunter clone, etc)? It’s a Xeno game by Takahashi, story is what they do (some people at GameFAQs have translated and subtitled the Japanese directs, website updates and short stories as well! Have you even played the Xeno games before Xenoblade (Gears and Saga episodes 1-3)?

FEif: What are they thinking with Phoenix mode!? Is there anyone who plays this genre that happens to be incompetent enough to benefit from this mode?
I’m fine with unlimited durability as that means we no longer have to save siege tomes, brave and legendary weapons, but the enemy better spam the hell out of siege tomes, ballistae and status staves.

Are you going to play the other Japan only Fire Emblems?
I know that FE2 uses a World Map and infinite durability.
FE3 is a two part game that is a remake of FE1 with book 1 and a continuation with book 2.
FE4 is known for introducing skills and being the 1st Fire Emblem game with a two generation system.
FE5 is supposed to be hard with things like the fatigue system and the ability to capture enemies (including bosses) for their equipment.
FE12 is a remake of FE3 book 2 and the 1st appearance of casual mode (I have no idea why they didn’t localize this).

I’d love to see how much they’ve improved the voice acting from Radiant Dawn. Are there any major disadvantages over choosing the cheaper 2DS over a 3DS XL?
  1. No
  2. No. You can't see where they are holding them in hammer space/magic bag, so how would they know what to steal when they have several items.
  3. Yes. And no stealing equipped weapons unless they have an ability to do so and character hasn't been proven to resist thefts.
  4. Yes, but only one thing at a time and they have to have a place to hold it. A character without a magic bag or hammer space (ex. Mewtwo) can't just steal all of his weapons and hold on to them. Although I guess there's nothing stopping them from just throwing them on the ground randomly.
  5. No.
You want to start tallying the stealing votes?

Falchion and the Rapier. I don't know of any other swords he'd be using.
The Levin sword represents his only ranged and magical option and will let him gain an advantage against fire users (thunder beats fire but loses to wind in the trinity of magic). The Swordslayer of FE12 fame gives him super effective damage against Myrmidons, Mercenaries and their promotions. Basically any unmounted character that mains swords such as himself, Ike, Roy, Robin and Lucina depending on their current class, Meta Knight, assorted Links except when mounted on Epona (then he becomes vulnerable to the Rapier), sword wielding Mii fighters, Shulk, and some versions of Zelda.


Of course, I doubt that the Badniks actually have tank armor on, but it's the same basic idea.
Tank armor isn’t indestructible. That armor can be penetrated easily from below (anti-tank landmines or blasting it when it crests a hill), above (dive bombing), and the rear. It can also be pierced by point blank cannon shots most of the time as well.

Guys, Duck Hunt Dog is the strongest character canonically. He can survive a bullet without even flinching or noticing it. It does absolutely nothing. So, we can assume the dog is invincible.
Most of the characters can survive being shot with a hunting rifle so that doesn’t make Duck Hunt Dog special.

.I think most of us are the impression they aren't made of anything super hard, certainly not harder than any armor that Marth can cut through in-game.
Don't forget that all the Fire Emblem characters have access to anti-armor weapons such as Rapiers, Armorslayers, and Hammers.

If the sword is on the ground, he'll have to bend over, which would take a second. This is assuming that it's not flung a distance away, of course, which a Mach 1+ tornado would likely do/

Rightful King only increases it by 10%, and Vulnerary doesn't heal that much.
Just because Sonic goes at mach one doesn’t mean his updrafts are anywhere near as strong.

Elixirs and the Lifesphere exist.

Where are you getting this "Mach 1+ tornado"?
I’d like to know too.



The Fire Emblem characters win by default. Their archers can consistently strike individual soldiers with ballista bolts on the other side of mountain ranges without line of sight to their target https://youtu.be/pxoeb3g2BLM?t=61 at 1:01-1:17 (if it was one of the player‘s archers or snipers the bolt would of hit). The fact that they think they can get away with targeting individual soldiers instead of walls with siege weapons tells you how hardcore the archers are in this series and they put Link to shame.

Fire Emblem characters also win because the enemies they face try to evade their attacks unlike pretty much all enemies in the Mario, Kirby, Megaman and Sonic series.

I just had to do my best impression of a drive by poster.
 
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Munomario777

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Where are you getting this "Mach 1+ tornado"?
In Sonic Heroes, Sonic can run in circles around an opponent to create the Blue Tornado using his speed. If Mach 1 Sonic won't generate Mach 1 winds, then light speed Sonic should at least get Marth's sword out of its sheath.

By the way, does Marth need to hold the sword in order for it to take effect?
Tank armor isn’t indestructible. That armor can be penetrated easily from below (anti-tank landmines or blasting it when it crests a hill), above (dive bombing), and the rear. It can also be pierced by point blank cannon shots most of the time as well.
Of course, but it is rather impressive that Sonic can just tear through a similar substance (albeit likely not as thick/heavy).
Just because Sonic goes at mach one doesn’t mean his updrafts are anywhere near as strong.
See above. Also, time freezing via Chaos Control could be another good option for taking away Falchion.
Elixirs and the Lifesphere exist.
Elixirs take some time to drink, leaving Marth vulnerable, and the Lifesphere only heals Marth a little bit every once in a while.
The Fire Emblem characters win by default. Their archers can consistently strike individual soldiers with ballista bolts on the other side of mountain ranges without line of sight to their target https://youtu.be/pxoeb3g2BLM?t=61 at 1:01-1:17 (if it was one of the player‘s archers or snipers the bolt would of hit). The fact that they think they can get away with targeting individual soldiers instead of walls with siege weapons tells you how hardcore the archers are in this series and they put Link to shame.

Fire Emblem characters also win because the enemies they face try to evade their attacks unlike pretty much all enemies in the Mario, Kirby, Megaman and Sonic series.

I just had to do my best impression of a drive by poster.
Is this a joke, or...?
 

Crystanium

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In Sonic Heroes, Sonic can run in circles around an opponent to create the Blue Tornado using his speed. If Mach 1 Sonic won't generate Mach 1 winds, then light speed Sonic should at least get Marth's sword out of its sheath.
I think it'd take more than three rotations to make a tornado. Sonic is able to use this in high altitudes. At an altitude of 11,000 meters (36,088.8 feet), the speed of sound is 295.2 m/s (Mach 0.86). The current height a tornado can reach is currently known to be 12,000 feet. The Egg Fleet is at least two to three miles above the clouds. Airplanes tend to fly in the low stratosphere. According to Live Science,

"Scientists believe that if the two opposing winds move at different speeds, the air in between them will rotate around a horizontal axis. If one end of the horizontal air column gets caught in the supercell's updraft, it will tilt vertically, forming a funnel cloud.

"The continuous upward energy of the supercell elongates the funnel cloud, and causes its spin to tighten and speed up — similar to the way ice skaters spin faster when their arms are pulled close to their bodies.

"Rain and hail from the thunderstorm push down on the tail end of the funnel cloud. When the bottom of the funnel cloud finally touches the ground, it becomes a tornado."

The formation of Sonic's tornado works nothing like an actual tornado. I don't think the formation even takes a second or two. The idea probably originated from The Flash #190 (1969). As for light speed dash, I'm not sure how a massless Sonic is supposed to harm anyone.
 
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Munomario777

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I think it'd take more than three rotations to make a tornado. Sonic is able to use this in high altitudes. At an altitude of 11,000 meters (36,088.8 feet), the speed of sound is 295.2 m/s (Mach 0.86). The current height a tornado can reach is currently known to be 12,000 feet. The Egg Fleet is at least two to three miles above the clouds. Airplanes tend to fly in the low stratosphere. According to Live Science,

"Scientists believe that if the two opposing winds move at different speeds, the air in between them will rotate around a horizontal axis. If one end of the horizontal air column gets caught in the supercell's updraft, it will tilt vertically, forming a funnel cloud.

"The continuous upward energy of the supercell elongates the funnel cloud, and causes its spin to tighten and speed up — similar to the way ice skaters spin faster when their arms are pulled close to their bodies.

"Rain and hail from the thunderstorm push down on the tail end of the funnel cloud. When the bottom of the funnel cloud finally touches the ground, it becomes a tornado."

The formation of Sonic's tornado works nothing like an actual tornado. I don't think the formation even takes a second or two. The idea probably originated from The Flash #190 (1969).
He does form a tornado, and it takes away enemy weapons. It doesn't seem like a natural tornado of course, but it does seem like it's similar in that there are rapidly rotating winds that pull things away etc.
As for light speed dash, I'm not sure how a massless Sonic is supposed to harm anyone.
He's not mass-less. We've been over this before.
 

Crystanium

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He does form a tornado, and it takes away enemy weapons. It doesn't seem like a natural tornado of course, but it does seem like it's similar in that there are rapidly rotating winds that pull things away etc.
All the two would share is vorticity. In order to make Sonic move while on the ground, we'll need to use physics. This is v^2 = 2μmg / ρCdA. Let's assume air density has remained constant in those higher elevations, simply because Sonic is somehow altering it. He'd only need a velocity of 16.51 m/s (36.91 mi/h) to lift himself up.

He's not mass-less. We've been over this before.
I don't think you've actually addressed my points before. So there's three options I can think of. Sonic is massless, Sonic has infinite energy (which would destroy everything in sight), or the light speed dash doesn't travel at 299,792,458 m/s in the Sonicverse.
 

Munomario777

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All the two would share is vorticity. In order to make Sonic move while on the ground, we'll need to use physics. This is v^2 = 2μmg / ρCdA. Let's assume air density has remained constant in those higher elevations, simply because Sonic is somehow altering it. He'd only need a velocity of 16.51 m/s (36.91 mi/h) to lift himself up.
How does this relate to the Blue Tornado? Do you mean that 36.91 mph is required to make a tornado capable of lifting his own weight?
I don't think you've actually addressed my points before. So there's three options I can think of. Sonic is massless, Sonic has infinite energy (which would destroy everything in sight), or the light speed dash doesn't travel at 299,792,458 m/s in the Sonicverse.
Or video game physics being different from our own. I don't see how infinite energy would destroy everything in sight if harnessed properly.
 

Kirby Dragons

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List some examples of rules needing to be changed (and actually resulted in rules being changed), and see if any of them match up with the reasons you're providing to change our rules.
18th amendment was repealed, due to being unpopular. 'Nuff said.
When is this proven?
In the first movie. It was the ultimate plan that Mewtwo was attempting.
He can stand on lava.
That's my mistake, I thought he couldn't. But being crushed against a wall is powerful enough to kill Super Sonic, so an island-level beam is powerful enough to at least do some damage.
Right above this.
A) And? I never said that it was. The tagging and the vote compiling are both part of the voting system.
Yet, I don't think one interferes with the other.
B) I don't see anything about a Chao Garden vote there.
Look on Shadow's tier list, it talks about Sonic using 999,999 Rings. Obviously, the vote was after that page.
Has anyone actually changed their stance since the original vote anyways?
@ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue , and @Nerdicon is also on this side too.
A sledgehammer could hit a container housing two chemicals that, when combined, explode violently. The sledgehammer destroys the container, and the two chemicals mix, resulting in an explosion. Does this explosion come directly from the sledgehammer's striking force? No.
Once again, weakness exploiting. The weakness of the chemicals is that they explode when mixed.
And this matters because...?
You said it was.
It would solve the weight of Wheel Kirby, which would solve the rollerskate wheel deal.
That's not really relevant to anything, really.
He flies away quickly at the end of this boss battle.
That's an exaggeration. That's not much faster than Kirby can fly.
So why would Kirby tell him to attack once and then go away as opposed to staying by his side throughout the level (or game, for that matter)?
The limit comes from the Copy Ability, not from Kirby saying something.
Who says the shields are made out of steel?
The powerful steel shields these Egg Fighters carry can easily deflect most attacks. It would take a supersonic blast to knock away their defenses, or someone quick and clever enough to attack them from the rear.
Kirby can attack himself...?

- Description, Sonic Unleashed
Kirby can attack himself...?
Indeed. Different Kirbies are playable at the same time in Kirby Air Ride.
Who would still get killed.
Not really.
How so? Sectonia is the one that exploded, but not necessarily the cause. I could cause an apple to fall from a shelf by tilting the shelf, but the apple wasn't the cause of its own fall.
True, but the apple is part of the cause. More so than you tilting the shelf, really.

Kirby can be hurt by his own explosions, by the way.

Has Mini Kirby ever pulled himself through nearly nonexistent cracks like the one the Clown Car would provide?
Ninja teleportation only gets him so far, and Bowser could just move the clown car again.
Ninja Kirby uses Drop Kick to dodge the Clown Car.
Bowser could just close his eyes.
Are his eyelids any more durable?
When does Kirby create a crater?
See 1:48.
Ground Pounds can crush rocks, yet they don't affect Bowser at normal size (let alone giant size).
Mountain >>>>> any rocks that Ground Pounds can crush.
When is it said, shown, etc that Kirby has that sort of strength/physiology, in addition to defying physics in that way?
I've proven those things multiple times, and I don't see how Kirby would defy physics.
How powerful is it? (Don't say "it's a black hole" because that means nothing when we're talking about a Kirby black hole.)
It's an OHKO.
See the above shelf example. Kirby sent Marx sideways, Marx went flying upwards. Kirby did not send Marx upwards.
It happened pretty soon after Kirby delivered the final attack, and there aren't really any other things that could've launched him. These things combined pretty much explain how Kirby did the launching.
Then explain all the hazards.
They are parts of the galaxy, but they aren't what the galaxy was for.
"Power" as in "strength of the attack" doesn't make sense because an attack with 1 PP is as strong as one with 100 PP left. "Power" as in "energy required to use the attack" makes sense because the Pokemon uses PP each time the move is used, and cannot move a use with no PP left.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not mean "power" as in "strength of the attack". I meant "power" as in "ability of the move". Like how Rest has the "power" to heal damage, Agility has the "power" to raise Evasion, Blast Burn has the "power" to be a firey blast, etcetera.
The Attack of a Pokemon increases, while the PP stays the same. If the attack:pP ratio was originally 60:25 (simplifies to 12:5), and the Attack increases to 80, it is now 80:25 (simplifies to 16:5).
They're not natural basic functions.
What does that have to do with anything?
You can ask Olimar about that. People are known to lie/make mistakes; it's in our nature.
We were talking about the Kirby character talking about the Schwarz' black holes.
Vacuum cleaners kill dust and dirt.
A) Dust and dirt are not alive. Therefore, they can't be killed.
B) Even if they were alive, they wouldn't actually be killed. They are simply sucked into the vacuum.
I could say that it's a "black hole", and be correct because many vacuum cleaners involve holes that are black or dark (which might also be what the Kirby character means; that or hyperbole).
Calling a vacuum cleaner a black hole is different from calling something a black hole that was previously unclassified.
You'll have to prove that assertion before you can use it.
Gameplay is something that is being played, it is something the developers need to make a specific way so the game isn't easy or hard. This is for the sake of the game. This doesn't apply to cutscenes, those are for the sake of characters.
True. We see this durability to crushing with the fact that Kirby survives crushing in his games. However, cottonballs are still destroyed by explosions.
However, Kirby is still made of skin, and skin is usually durable than cotton. In Kirby's case, it is squishy skin.
What type of attack will knock them out?
I've already explained. Several weak attacks, or a few strong attacks. The type of attack doesn't really matter.
You're forgetting the fact that Sonic is moving at light speed by this point, which would decimate Kirby. As for being taken control of during the charge, Sonic could just go to the other side of the arena, out of Baton's range.
Kirby is a durable ball, being hit with a light speed attack won't decimate him. Sonic can't move during the charge of an attack, can he?
How so? It's a regular looking knife that we don't see have dimensional-ripping abilities, and there's nothing else besides unreliable character quotes to indicate that it has dimensional-ripping abilities, so we can conclude that it has no dimensional-ripping abilities.
What makes the quotes unreliable?
He should be under high levels of stress. Let's see what could contribute to this:
  • He's just crash landed on a planet, and been sent tumbling out of his spaceship.
And he stopped tumbling.
  • Before crash landing, Louie fell out of the ship, with a high likelihood of death.
And he didn't die.
  • That planet is one that likely scarred him for life during the first game, and that was just the other day.
Which he can leave at any time.
Yeah, pretty intense situation here.
Small "causes of stress" like this would be fixed by small "moments of relief". He is finding lots of treasure, those instances could be moments of relief.
When does he use this exactly?
Offscreen, much like Sonic teleporting.
If an attack lasts for a long time (i.e. a celestial object), Kirby still gets hit when he reappears.
Then Kirby could go around the object.
By killing the Luma.
Then Kirby possesses another one, or flies straight through Rosalina to damage her.
Star Bits can travel long distances.
And they'd bounce right off of Kirby's skin.
In a conversation I had with another user.
What was the settling?
If the sword is on the ground, he'll have to bend over, which would take a second. This is assuming that it's not flung a distance away, of course, which a Mach 1+ tornado would likely do/
What makes it a Mach 1+ tornado? Also, any projectile Sonic could do in this time could just be dodged by rolling, and any physical attack would be negated by Falchion. And when Marth summons a Risen using a Reeking Box, that would hold Sonic off while Marth dishes out some damage.
Rightful King only increases it by 10%, and Vulnerary doesn't heal that much.
Elixir + Lightsphere + Sol + Vulnerary would heal rather often.
The rule includes all health systems that represent a character's durability, whether it be a number or a bar.
Wouldn't the bars of life in some Kirby games qualify for this?
Most of the characters can survive being shot with a hunting rifle so that doesn’t make Duck Hunt Dog special.
He was joking.
Don't forget that all the Fire Emblem characters have access to anti-armor weapons such as Rapiers, Armorslayers, and Hammers.
This would be rather effective against Samus, then.
 

Munomario777

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18th amendment was repealed, due to being unpopular. 'Nuff said.
And because it caused severe problems. Quote from Wikipedia, "The police, courts and prisons were overwhelmed with new cases; organized crime increased in power, and corruption extended among law enforcement officials. The amendment was repealed in 1933 by ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment, the only instance in United States history that a constitutional amendment was repealed in its entirety."
In the first movie. It was the ultimate plan that Mewtwo was attempting.
And how do we know that he's capable of following through with it?
That's my mistake, I thought he couldn't. But being crushed against a wall is powerful enough to kill Super Sonic, so an island-level beam is powerful enough to at least do some damage.
The crusher walls are treated as immovable objects, as in, they can't be stopped prematurely. Super Sonic's invincible status is overruled by the wall's immovable status, so Super Sonic dies. On the other hand, regular attacks are negated by Super Sonic. Also, I'm not sure how crusher walls correlate to laser beams.
Yet, I don't think one interferes with the other.
If users are not tagged, they might not see the proposal. If they don't see the proposal, they won't vote. If they don't vote, there are less votes to record, and the results are skewed due to a limited voter pool.
Look on Shadow's tier list, it talks about Sonic using 999,999 Rings. Obviously, the vote was after that page.
Prove it.
@ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue , and @Nerdicon is also on this side too.
I'm curious on what everyone's stance is at this point in time.
Once again, weakness exploiting. The weakness of the chemicals is that they explode when mixed.
And the weakness of Marx is that he launches off when defeated.
That's an exaggeration. That's not much faster than Kirby can fly.
Care to compare it?
The limit comes from the Copy Ability, not from Kirby saying something.
Right, just like the limit of Meta Knight only being able to slash everything on the screen and then disappear coming from the Copy Ability.
The powerful steel shields these Egg Fighters carry can easily deflect most attacks. It would take a supersonic blast to knock away their defenses, or someone quick and clever enough to attack them from the rear.
Kirby can attack himself...?

Ah. Note that the Sonic Boost can destroy these shields.
Indeed. Different Kirbies are playable at the same time in Kirby Air Ride.
Are they all pink, or are they simply differently colored members of the Kirby species?
Not really.
How so? If Sonic can tear through robots while barely moving at all, I highly doubt that Kirby could survive a Mach 1+ attack.
True, but the apple is part of the cause. More so than you tilting the shelf, really.
How so?
Kirby can be hurt by his own explosions, by the way.
Interesting.
Has Mini Kirby ever pulled himself through nearly nonexistent cracks like the one the Clown Car would provide?
I'll take that as a no.
Ninja Kirby uses Drop Kick to dodge the Clown Car.
Do you have footage of this that proves its speed?
Are his eyelids any more durable?
Presumably.
See 1:48.
That seems rather avoidable (or at least hide-in-your-super-durable-shell-able).
Mountain >>>>> any rocks that Ground Pounds can crush.
Small Kirby mountain < < < < < tall stacks of rocks.
I've proven those things multiple times, and I don't see how Kirby would defy physics.
Prove that Kirby could pull himself through that space.
It's an OHKO.
How much force does that equal exactly?
It happened pretty soon after Kirby delivered the final attack, and there aren't really any other things that could've launched him. These things combined pretty much explain how Kirby did the launching.
One could press a button on a computer terminal to launch a rocket. The rocket launch happens pretty soon after one presses the button, and nothing else would have launched it, yet the person who pressed the button didn't provide the force.
They are parts of the galaxy, but they aren't what the galaxy was for.
When is it revealed that the purpose of the galaxy is to give Mario a Power Star, with no hazards etc along the way?
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not mean "power" as in "strength of the attack". I meant "power" as in "ability of the move". Like how Rest has the "power" to heal damage, Agility has the "power" to raise Evasion, Blast Burn has the "power" to be a firey blast, etcetera.
Ah, okay. That doesn't make much sense, though. PP can change, but the ability of the move doesn't change. Moves with different PP can have the same abilities, and vice-versa.
The Attack of a Pokemon increases, while the PP stays the same. If the attack:pP ratio was originally 60:25 (simplifies to 12:5), and the Attack increases to 80, it is now 80:25 (simplifies to 16:5).
I'm not talking about the amount of PP. I'm talking about what 1 PP equates to in terms of energy. For instance, 1 PP could equate to a pint of water for a water jet attack, and if the ratio changed, it could equate to two pints per PP.
What does that have to do with anything?
Not much, in retrospect.
We were talking about the Kirby character talking about the Schwarz' black holes.
Ah. The principle still applies.
A) Dust and dirt are not alive. Therefore, they can't be killed.
B) Even if they were alive, they wouldn't actually be killed. They are simply sucked into the vacuum.
Insects, then.
Calling a vacuum cleaner a black hole is different from calling something a black hole that was previously unclassified.
Schwarz is classified as an enemy.
Gameplay is something that is being played, it is something the developers need to make a specific way so the game isn't easy or hard. This is for the sake of the game. This doesn't apply to cutscenes, those are for the sake of characters.
Cutscenes are for the purpose of the story as well.
However, Kirby is still made of skin, and skin is usually durable than cotton. In Kirby's case, it is squishy skin.
This doesn't tell us much about what Kirby could withstand.
I've already explained. Several weak attacks, or a few strong attacks. The type of attack doesn't really matter.
What counts as a "weak attack" or a "strong attack"? That's too vague to work with.
Kirby is a durable ball, being hit with a light speed attack won't decimate him. Sonic can't move during the charge of an attack, can he?
So has Kirby survived a light speed attack before?

No, but he can move before charging and out of Kirby's range.
What makes the quotes unreliable?
They're from people, and people are prone to error.
And he stopped tumbling.
And he likely suffered a headache, if not a concussion.
And he didn't die.
And he was stranded.
Which he can leave at any time.
Except he can't, because he has to stay there and pay off the debt.
Small "causes of stress" like this would be fixed by small "moments of relief". He is finding lots of treasure, those instances could be moments of relief.
And then it sets back in.
Offscreen, much like Sonic teleporting.
Could you provide a specific example, please? Sonic teleported when he was in the capsule, falling from the ARK. He had an Emerald on him, and it was made clear that he was preparing to initiate Chaos Control. It was also directly stated that he did so after the fact, and this is backed up by other instances of Sonic using Chaos Control throughout the series such as Sonic 2006.
Then Kirby could go around the object.
Unless it's a galaxy-sized explosion.
Then Kirby possesses another one, or flies straight through Rosalina to damage her.
And Rosalina destroys that one. Do you mean flying into Rosalina using Ghost, or...?
And they'd bounce right off of Kirby's skin.
As proven by?
What was the settling?
Since it damages flying troops in-game, it's not a ground- or near-ground-only attack.
What makes it a Mach 1+ tornado?
Sonic's high running speed.
Also, any projectile Sonic could do in this time could just be dodged by rolling, and any physical attack would be negated by Falchion.
How quick is this rolling? I doubt it could dodge Sonic Wind.
And when Marth summons a Risen using a Reeking Box, that would hold Sonic off while Marth dishes out some damage.
Super Sonic.
Elixir + Lightsphere + Sol + Vulnerary would heal rather often.
Elixir and Vulnerary have limited use, and Sol only heals if damage is dealt to an enemy. Seeing as how Marth won't be damaging Super Sonic anytime soon, this won't prove effective.
Wouldn't the bars of life in some Kirby games qualify for this?
Yes.
This would be rather effective against Samus, then.
It depends on the type of armor.
 
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