Whobby 2008: Ike's Speed

[FieryRebirth]

From what we know so far from articles and movies, Ike has range and power, just a bit lackluster in speed but his strengths make up for it in FFAs and, if skilled enough, 1v1s. He has the capability to flip off Marth fans with his power alone who only use him for simply his semi-broken-ness in 1v1s.

What "I" am not sure in is movement speed, can anyone point out any videos of Ike running or walking for a noticeable amount of time?

Either way, I'm going to have a lot of fun with Ike being my main in my friends' FFA matches. Whatever role he plays in SSE, he's gonna be even more fun.

 

[Windlord]

Not trying to de-rail but I'll say this about tiers:

- Tiers do exist. That's just how the development of fighting games works. But it doesn't mean "lolz this character owns this character and the low tier guys can never win tournaments."

- How tiering works is basically this: If a person was theoretically fighting himself and was equally skilled with character A (upper tier) and character B (mid tier), the person would have a better chance of winning with character A. Not an absolute, but simply increased odds.


So the character does play into it, but so does the skill of the player.

ah ok I see what your sayin. I agree except I just don't call that tiers I guess, I would consider that just to be pluses and minuses for each character.

 

[Zink]

ah ok I see what your sayin. I agree except I just don't call that tiers I guess, I would consider that just to be pluses and minuses for each character.

while smash is a very well balanced game, it is certainly not the best. and it is merely naive to assume that all advantages and disadvantages even out.


ike for top tier though

 

[Shiri]

In Melee, Bowser wasn't strong enough to make up for the lack of speed, but Ike makes Bowser look like a featherweight when it comes to strength/power, so maybe he has SO MUCH strength that it just completely destroys the need for speed. Yes, I believe there is a point where that can happen, especially with Super Armor now running rampant. So we'll just have to see if he reaches it.

The only thing I have to say about this is that...

...this all depends on how easy it is to camp in Brawl. If Ike is super strong and has armor frames, but still can't keep up with fast spammers, then he will just get camped. To whoever said running into Ike would be suicide: You're right. So they won't run to him. They'll run away. And shoot. Or throw. Or whatever. A certain amount of speed is necessary to stop yourself from getting shut down by people who are too afraid or too lazy to actually fight you. Look at Peach--she is arguably the best hand-to-hand fighter in Melee, but she gets dash camped, grab camped, and projectile camped (to a lesser extent, however) so bad that it almost completely diminishes her effectiveness.

All I'm saying is that your speed/power argument is give one + take another, which is fine, but you need a certain amount of speed to become effective. People don't just run at you if they know they're going to die. Smash is about survival, after all.

 

[Windlord]

while smash is a very well balanced game, it is certainly not the best. and it is merely naive to assume that all advantages and disadvantages even out.


ike for top tier though

hmm well let me put this another way then. The game itself may not be perfectly balanced (although it's very close) Humans are not perfectly even, therefore a gamer with more skill can still beat another gamer who uses a "higher tier" character. There's always a better gamer.

 

[pyroroth]

hmm well let me put this another way then. The game itself may not be perfectly balanced (although it's very close) Humans are not perfectly even, therefore a gamer with more skill can still beat another gamer who uses a "higher tier" character. There's always a better gamer.

not if you're the best...

 

[Profanity]

If I'm to understand correctly, Ike's speed was not "buffed." A lag issue was fixed, that's all. Shouldn't confuse the two, people will make false assumptions.

If he's cursed as the absolute slowest character, so be it. Accept reality. When the game is released, we'll tear through his possibilities and he'll be charted on the tier list somewhere. Just wait 'till that happens, then we'll talk about his speed's relevance.

And, I'd imagine it -will- be relevant, and very, so. You know. Brace yourselves.

 

[rageagainst]

remember camping won't be tooo easy on ike because he has fast running speed (from what i hear)

the combo of a VERY strong char w/ fast running speed causes his attacks to be VERY slow, it just makes sense, you can't have it all. Bowser is a slow running speed strong char, so his attacks are a bit faster than ikes since hes weaker and walks slower.

Theoretically, a fast char, even with extremely small knockback (take MK for instance) should interupt everyone of Ike's attacks(other than counter,) thats why they packed Ike with more invulnerability frames than any one else, meaning that you can't be interupted, and thus you hit. It will take a lot of practice and dedication to find those frames and utilize them, but when you do I believe Ike will be on somewhat of an even ground.

Remember, this is brawl, it has 3x the dev time of melee and a larger team, a team that is made of hardcore smashers. There is obviously going to be a tier list but it will have less of an impact as that of melee, have faith Ike will turn out ok.

I saw a super long post somewhere explaining how playing defencively is possible in Brawl but it wasn't in melee, very good news for chars like Ike and Zelda

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

CrotchCouncil: Ike did get a boost in speed even though it was by simply fixing the invisi-lag. Back at E for All it wasn't known that it was a glitch of any kind, and thus he was just really, really slow. By removal of the invisi-lag he gets an increase in attack speed by the fault. Also for the record, Ike isn't the slowest character. He has slow attacks (by proxy of Ragnell being effing huge), his movement isn't that slow.

rageagainst: We don't actually know how fast Ike's attacks are now. Before we knew they = slower than Bowser, but that was because of the invisi-lag. Since they fixed the lag nobody's said a direct comparison to any previous characters on how fast or slow his Smash Attacks and such are now.

If I had to guess simply from looking at them in videos, I would say they're gonna be closer to Ganondorf in speed.

 

[QuickBlade]

I hope he isn't as slow as people are saying, but hearing that he is overpowered is good

 

[REDRAGON]

well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then... cus I don't believe in tiers. I think all the characters were designed for the most part balanced with one another. No character purely beats another outright, it's the gamer controlling it that decides the outcome.
---Windlord

Sorry man, but it looks like you have a lot to learn about smash.

Slow characters suck

Ike is slow

Ike is gonna suck

But Ike is extremely cool!!!

My point is, stop trying to think that Ike is going to be good, he is not. I wanna use him cause he is wicked sweet, and i like how he looks/plays.
And who cares if he sucks???

Ike ftw!!

 

[Titan05]

well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then... cus I don't believe in tiers. I think all the characters were designed for the most part balanced with one another. No character purely beats another outright, it's the gamer controlling it that decides the outcome.
---Windlord

Sorry man, but it looks like you have a lot to learn about smash.

Slow characters suck

Ike is slow

Ike is gonna suck

But Ike is extremely cool!!!

My point is, stop trying to think that Ike is going to be good, he is not. I wanna use him cause he is wicked sweet, and i like how he looks/plays.
And who cares if he sucks???

Ike ftw!!

Fast characters were pretty important to Melee, however, this is a new game. Maybe a balance was struck between Good speed character and Good power characters.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Gannondorf didn't suck. I think that there is a threashold between a character that's slow and a character that's too slow. If the invisible lag on Ike's attacks was fixed, and he got a lot more super armor frames then at E for all, and he couldn't be grabbed out of those super armor frames, then Ike could easily be mid tier.

 

[Windlord]

Sorry man, but it looks like you have a lot to learn about smash.

I'm gonna pretend you didn't say that, and ignore the rest of your ignorant post.

 

[REDRAGON]

^^Gannondorf didn't suck. I think that there is a threashold between a character that's slow and a character that's too slow. If the invisible lag on Ike's attacks was fixed, and he got a lot more super armor frames then at E for all, and he couldn't be grabbed out of those super armor frames, then Ike could easily be mid tier.

Thats true, but Ganon does not seem nearly as slow as Ike(from what i have seen and read.)
Ganon had fast tilts, jabs, decently fast aerials, and a very good recovery.
I know ganon is not fast, but compared to Ike he is a lot faster.

Btw, nice to talk to you again Sonic Wave.

But its true that Brawl might be completely different(even though Gimpyfish himself said Ike is not good at all)

I'm gonna pretend you didn't say that, and ignore the rest of your ignorant post.

Windlord, i dont know what this post means. Saying my post is ignorant, then saying that you dont believe in tiers is foolish.
I dont want you to get on the wrong foot on these forums, but try and be more careful when you post, ok man?

 

[FieryRebirth]

But its true that Brawl might be completely different(even though Gimpyfish himself said Ike is not good at all)
?

If Gimpy told you to swallow a nuclear bomb, would you?

Stop kissing his *** just because he's one of the top Bowser Smashers and moderates these forums like I say in my motto:

"If you want something done, you're better off doing it yourself."

How does this relate to Ike being good? Hah, good or not, I'm most likely maining him and I've mained Marth/Jigglypuff and sometimes Kirby so I've started to practice with the slow powerhouse characters in Melee, you should start doing so as well if you want to get a better feel of Ike when Brawl's out.

 

[pyroroth]

If Gimpy told you to swallow a nuclear bomb, would you?

Stop kissing his *** just because he's one of the top Bowser Smashers and moderates these forums like I say in my motto:

"If you want something done, you're better off doing it yourself."

How does this relate to Ike being good? Hah, good or not, I'm most likely maining him and I've mained Marth/Jigglypuff and sometimes Kirby so I've started to practice with the slow powerhouse characters in Melee, you should start doing so as well if you want to get a better feel of Ike when Brawl's out.

It's not only gimpyfish that has said that ike is slow.. there are others, and believing someone who was at the demo is really all we have to go on and is better than knowing absolutely nothing at all.

 

[REDRAGON]

If Gimpy told you to swallow a nuclear bomb, would you?

Stop kissing his *** just because he's one of the top Bowser Smashers and moderates these forums like I say in my motto:

"If you want something done, you're better off doing it yourself."

How does this relate to Ike being good? Hah, good or not, I'm most likely maining him and I've mained Marth/Jigglypuff and sometimes Kirby so I've started to practice with the slow powerhouse characters in Melee, you should start doing so as well if you want to get a better feel of Ike when Brawl's out.

I trust Gimpyfish because he played Brawl more then most here(if not all here) and has put alot of time and effort into researching it.
I see no reason not to believe him. There is no reason he would lie.
Why do you not believe him?

btw Marth is in no way a "slow powerhouse" Marth is very fast....and nothing like Ike(lol)

 

[Hellbeing]

Slow characters suck

Since when.?

 

[FieryRebirth]

I trust Gimpyfish because he played Brawl more then most here(if not all here) and has put alot of time and effort into researching it.
I see no reason not to believe him. There is no reason he would lie.
Why do you not believe him?

btw Marth is in no way a "slow powerhouse" Marth is very fast....and nothing like Ike(lol)

I play Smash for fun and not competition, hence I practically don't know Gimpy. Top players have in no way power over my preferences nor anyone else's, even if you lost a 'wager' against Gimpy himself in a Melee match.

You're not entitled to LISTEN to every word he has said because of his reputation as a Bowser Smasher, you have your own choices. Games are meant to be played for fun, as they're intended to be.

TL;DR: Time to take flight, Smash fledgling and don't be hesitant on making your own decisions.

...Wait, when did I compare how similar Marth was to Ike?

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

It's not only gimpyfish that has said that ike is slow.. there are others, and believing someone who was at the demo is really all we have to go on and is better than knowing absolutely nothing at all.

THIS WAS AT E4ALL. NOT JUMP FESTA OR WHOBBY.

Losing the invisi-lag is THE key thing that makes Ike a better character than he was. If you look at anything Gimpy or anyone else said about him it was "his attacks come out way too slow, it's like a Falcon Punch for every attack". This was due to "invisible lag" before his attacks that you could not see. They said you cannot fathom how slow he is from videos because of this, and it's true because there's no animation or anything, it just....lags between you pushing the button and Ike responding with an already slowed attack.

But that was a GLITCH. We now know for absolute fact thanks to I.T.P. and others at WHobby that THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE, and the invisible lag is gone. This fact, along with an increased distance on his Quick Draw for recovery and possible Super Armor frames that we may not know about yet, CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Ike could be a sucky character, he could be a good one. The point is now that nobody here knows. Gimpy has no knowledge of WHobby Ike other than what one of his boys has told him (and that was that Ike's speed has improved thanks to the removal of the invisi-lag). Therefore his original statement is no longer valid and you all should probably stop clinging to it.

 

[Windlord]

Windlord, i dont know what this post means. Saying my post is ignorant, then saying that you dont believe in tiers is foolish.
I dont want you to get on the wrong foot on these forums, but try and be more careful when you post, ok man?

be careful yourself.

Sorry man, but it looks like you have a lot to learn about smash.

thats what my post is all about. I don't enjoy ticking people off, but what I hate worse is people assuming I'm a noob or accusing me of not knowing how smash works. I apologise for jumping on you about it.

Tiers is more of an opinion than a fact, because I choose not to believe in them doesn't make me any less educated in the world of smash.

As you can see, I'm not the only one that thinks heavy characters are awsome.

 

[pyroroth]

I play Smash for fun and not competition, hence I practically don't know Gimpy. Top players have in no way power over my preferences nor anyone else's, even if you lost a 'wager' against Gimpy himself in a Melee match.

You're not entitled to LISTEN to every word he has said because of his reputation as a Bowser Smasher, you have your own choices. Games are meant to be played for fun, as they're intended to be.

TL;DR: Time to take flight, Smash fledgling and don't be hesitant on making your own decisions.

...Wait, when did I compare how similar Marth was to Ike?

because you said that marth is slow and ike is slow.... except marth is definitely not slow.

 

[FieryRebirth]

I don't recall saying Marth was slow as Ike. Please show me a quote and do not try to mix any words in a fake quote either. I will find out.

I remember comparing Ike and Marth's Down B and B neutral but never their playstyle.

 

[Miller]

I play Smash for fun and not competition, hence I practically don't know Gimpy. Top players have in no way power over my preferences nor anyone else's, even if you lost a 'wager' against Gimpy himself in a Melee match.

You're not entitled to LISTEN to every word he has said because of his reputation as a Bowser Smasher, you have your own choices. Games are meant to be played for fun, as they're intended to be.

TL;DR: Time to take flight, Smash fledgling and don't be hesitant on making your own decisions.

...Wait, when did I compare how similar Marth was to Ike?

Theres a difference between Facts and Opinion. Ike was a slow cawk mongrel at E4All due to invisible lag. Gimpy handed us facts (like he always does when stating a point) and we cant deny that its true. Sure you have your opinion, just doesn't mean its right. Sure I main Ganondorf In melee, But I also main C.F. as he is a better character. Its a fact. I will main Ike in Brawl. I hope he is lower tier, not god tier as all the people will flock to him like a fat kid to chocolate. Just as everyone did for Fox, Falco, and Marth. At a tournament, in my pool, I could not make it out due to everyone that was in my pool was a Fox main. Its a fact that he is the best and most over used character. Its my opinion that hes a fur***. Ike is better off low tier so he doesnt turn into the next fox because enough FE Fans (such as myself) will play him. We dont need even more people play Ike.

Now is isnt slow, well figuratively speaking. The invis lag is gone.

 

[The_Corax_King]

I do repect gimpyfish's thoughts... as he does use the slowest character in Melee... and being a competitive smasher I'm sure he has a good grip on the mechanics of brawl...

but...

He was playing a demo... and who knows how much 1v1 time he got with ike... while he did say he played the game A LOT, it's a brand new game and you can't expect to know a character's potential in less than 4 days of play...

Other people said he was abysmally slow and was TOO powerful... meaning he couldn't combo because he would hit the opponent too far... in this case though I think immense power is a good trade off for bad speed... bowser was so bad in Melee because he was not nearly strong enough to compensate for his horrible speed... plus bowser didn't have super armor in melee...

hopefully Ike's seemingly horrible speed, combo potential, and recovery can be balanced by HUGE power, the right amount of super armor frames, and heaviness so he won't get knocked off easily...

I still have hopes as the team working on smash is very good... and I'm sure they won't make another bowser mistake...



btw... I haven't heard a single thing about Ike's counter... does it work like Marth's or Roy's or differently...? If it's good enough it might be another aspect to help balance his supposed... crappiness....

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

I do repect gimpyfish's thoughts... as he does use the slowest character in Melee... and being a competitive smasher I'm sure he has a good grip on the mechanics of brawl...

but...

He was playing a demo... and who knows how much 1v1 time he got with ike... while he did say he played the game A LOT, it's a brand new game and you can't expect to know a character's potential in less than 4 days of play...

Other people said he was abysmally slow and was TOO powerful... meaning he couldn't combo because he would hit the opponent too far... in this case though I think immense power is a good trade off for bad speed... bowser was so bad in Melee because he was not nearly strong enough to compensate for his horrible speed... plus bowser didn't have super armor in melee...

hopefully Ike's seemingly horrible speed, combo potential, and recovery can be balanced by HUGE power, the right amount of super armor frames, and heaviness so he won't get knocked off easily...

I still have hopes as the team working on smash is very good... and I'm sure they won't make another bowser mistake...



btw... I haven't heard a single thing about Ike's counter... does it work like Marth's or Roy's or differently...? If it's good enough it might be another aspect to help balance his supposed... crappiness....

Again...

Gimpy's Ike impressions aren't valid anymore, Ike has changed since he last played with him. And from what people are saying about the new, non invisi-lagged Ike he sounds like he's just fine, still a slower character (not cripplingly slow anymore, understand this) but with MASSIVE power and range, and he was even given some help with his recovery (his side B now seems to work a lot better as a recovery from player impressions).

As for Ike's counter, The way I've heard it described is Marth length, Roy power.

 

[pyroroth]

How does this relate to Ike being good? Hah, good or not, I'm most likely maining him and I've mained Marth/Jigglypuff and sometimes Kirby so I've started to practice with the slow powerhouse characters in Melee, you should start doing so as well if you want to get a better feel of Ike when Brawl's out.

You said you've mained marth so you've practiced with "slow" characters to get a feel of what ike will be like.

 

[The_Corax_King]

Again...

Gimpy's Ike impressions aren't valid anymore, Ike has changed since he last played with him. And from what people are saying about the new, non invisi-lagged Ike he sounds like he's just fine, still a slower character (not cripplingly slow anymore, understand this) but with MASSIVE power and range, and he was even given some help with his recovery (his side B now seems to work a lot better as a recovery from player impressions).

As for Ike's counter, The way I've heard it described is Marth length, Roy power.

I was gonna say that at the end... about E for Ike being different... but I heard some people say he is still insanely slow even without the invis lag...

stupid laggy site doesn't always let me edit posts...

 

[REDRAGON]

The only thing i am saying, is that Ike is most likely a very very bad character.
What i dont want to happen if that is the case, is for all the fan boys to come here and starting a ton of threads like:
"IkE Is top TieR!"
"iKe is UnderRatEd!!!1"

Those threads are stupid and just flat out wrong.
If Ike sucks, deal with it, dont make up foolish ideas that he is underrated or anything, just accept that he sucks and play him cause he is so cool.

Redragon

 

[True Fool]

It makes me sad really. The Ike boards are already a bit hellish, and if and when he turns out low/bottom-tier it'll be The Roy Boards x10.

But anyway, I agree with AlphaDragoon2002, any impressions from E4all about Ike's speed are invalid. If Ike is as fast as some people are saying he is (Roy speed I guess?), than he really needs to be a little less powerful. Not much, because he already has terrible recovery to balance him out, but he shouldn't be that fast and that powerful.

 

[suzuki brawl]

I don't know but if ike startup lag has been removed so eb careful he is going to kick some as

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

For the record, more Japanese impressions are putting Ike as either:

- Marth and Roy put together
- Ganondorf-esque in speed/attacks

So there you go, a flat Melee character comparison for those who wanted it. It seems that he's probably gonna be between Roy speed and G-dorf speed, if we take the middle ground on the varying opinion.

EDIT: Oh yeah I figure I might as well throw in that according to one of our own who was at Day 2 of the event, Ike's Eruption appears to be extremely powerful and able to kill without being charged all that much.

I think I'm just gonna make an "Ike impressions from WHobby" thread to put all this stuff in.

 

[FieryRebirth]

You said you've mained marth so you've practiced with "slow" characters to get a feel of what ike will be like.

That's right, I'm doing so in order to help prevent myself from being disappointed. I'm accepting change with open arms unlike some of you. I'm a fan of the FE games and enjoyed the games Ike was in so I will be maining him. Granted, since I used to main Marth and Jigglypuff in Melee it will be a tough road getting a better feel of him.

But if Ike completely misses out in my tastes, I'm not afraid of finding another main to get used to and so far Mario is still in line. I still haven't compared Marth and Ike though and said they were similar.

As for Ike's counter, The way I've heard it described is Marth length, Roy power.

I agree, which automatically puts him in the level of awesome in my book since I loved using Counter at the right time in Melee(I.E, before getting air-combo'd and giving me an opportunity to turn the tables)

 

[/~Dogma~\]

i mained marth too but im still playing melee though with marth

brawl will be so diff i dont think practing will help i was marth then i played around with ganon and i didnt really care bout his speed although some of his atks are fast

 

[pyroroth]

i mained marth too but im still playing melee though with marth

brawl will be so diff i dont think practing will help i was marth then i played around with ganon and i didnt really care bout his speed although some of his atks are fast

Except for his Utilt lolz!

 

[KingDaniel]

PErsonally

He looks like a character that just needs a lot of timing, and you can't really button mash.

 

[pyroroth]

He looks like a character that just needs a lot of timing, and you can't really button mash.

But.. but.. mashing buttons = skill

 

[REDRAGON]

How Ike will do at each stage(imo):

n00b stage(you know none of the advanced technicals things): Ike will be one of the best. n00bs only use smashes and other stupid attacks, and little mindgames are used at this stage so Ike will be very good. I remember the days when i would just charge a smash and hope someone would walk into it. Trust me, Ike will be popular with the n00bs because he is powerful and at this stage spamming smashes works.

Advanced stage(use all advanced technicals and are good at the game): Ike will be mid tier at this stage. Not having mastered all the advanced stuff, your opponent will still make many mistakes and Ike is great on destroying you for making mistakes.

Pro stage(a master in brawl, mastered all the technicals): Ike will be one of, if not the worst in the game. Ike just is not fast enough for a pro player. Faster characters will be able to dance around him and beat him up and down. Think of Bowser vs Fox, a pro fox would not even let the bowser get an attack in there. Thats not even counting Ike's bad recovery...

Just my thoughts on Ike so far....

Redragon

 

[Torchik]

Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I bet Gimpy could beat a Fox pro, though. (Yeah, I know that Gimpy doesn't like to be used as an example or whatever, but cry about it.) I would think he would be mid tier in pro if you could get really good with him. I agree with you on the other stuff, though! ^_^