who mained roy?

[Black Waltz]

no, IC is definitely Roy's second counter. luigi is about even with him

 

[handsockpuppet]

no, IC is definitely Roy's second counter. luigi is about even with him

Luigi is definitely not even with him. I may be missing something, can someone please post the advantages IC have against Roy.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Well for one thing, they can easily CG Roy to death. ICs also have faster horizontal movement, and their shield game kinda wrecks Roy.

 

[Sethlon]

Dancing blade combo is really really really good.

Only if your opponent doesnt crouch cancel -> shield everytime you tap them with the first hit ;_;
(I mean, theres still uses for the DED tap, but cc->shield more or less completely ruins any hope of even hitting them with the second, let alone third, swipe)

 

[ERK111]

pssshhhhhhhhh

 

[vZakat]

I still think Falco is Roy's worst match-up. the Lasers cut through everything Roy could possibly do.

 

[Pitzer]

I still think Falco is Roy's worst match-up. the Lasers cut through everything Roy could possibly do.

Falco is not roy worst match-up. Sheik for so many reason's .
But the major one is that down throw that sheik has Can take roy From 0% to 115% Before DIing becomes helpful...

 

[handsockpuppet]

I still think Falco is Roy's worst match-up. the Lasers cut through everything Roy could possibly do.

Falco's annoying but do to his Fast falling-ness he's easy to combo.

Well for one thing, they can easily CG Roy to death. ICs also have faster horizontal movement, and their shield game kinda wrecks Roy.

IC can chaingrab everyone to death. everyone can chaingrab Roy to death

 

[Pitzer]

Luigi and Link are about even with Roy.

 

[handsockpuppet]

Link=camping majorly and destroying your SHFFLS. slight advantage.

Luigi=ruining your grabs, juggles, SHFFLS, Dtilts, and Fsmashes with floaty-ness. even though Roy is faster, Luigi can wavedash for boosted speed. his aerials are kill, and the tornado can move around as fast as his waveland. more then just a slight advantage.

 

[Black Waltz]

why dont we just ask phanna for his opinion...

 

[ArcNatural]

How did this thread become 7 pages based on the first post? Roy boards are made of win.

 

[Zankoku]

I think Luigi is a Roy counter. Given Roy's terrible true range, almost all of his attacks get out-prioritized by anything Luigi does.

 

[Levitas]

I disagree. Roy's sweetspot range is not his true range, so really a luigi has to get close to you to attack, whereas you (the roy) can attack from a longer range to get a weak hit, and then attack again.

Luigi can attack from two places, and only one of them is a quick approach. If he attacks from the ground, he's fast. In that case, downtilt. If he jumps from a wavedash, you can fair or forwardsmash. Fair's less risky, and forwardsmash is ... you know.

Luigi's descent game is based on his nair covering him, which doesn't work on Roy. Roy can aerial neutral b, he can uair, he can move to the side for a fair, he can even friggin' counter!

Luigi doesn't get comboed easily, except that roy's moves have exceptionally low knockback, and Luigi's really floaty.

As far as edgeguarding goes, if you can't edgeguard a luigi, then you need to work on your overall game some more.

All of these advantages should make the match overwhelmingly... even. lol.

 

[Velox]

Sheik's CG isn't that bad, my god.

And Alex, crouch canceling the >B is possible (it would work), but it is entirely not going to happen everytime. It's humanly too inconsistent for my tastes. Also, nobody even does that lol. There's no way you of all people could deny it's godlyness. And it would only be able to work at like 20% or so, this isn't Marth. Plus people know better than to >B combo at real low percents.

I think it's about as consistent as smash DI'ing Fox's u-air, although the u-air would be easier to get out of IMO.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I disagree. Roy's sweetspot range is not his true range, so really a luigi has to get close to you to attack, whereas you (the roy) can attack from a longer range to get a weak hit, and then attack again.

Luigi can attack from two places, and only one of them is a quick approach. If he attacks from the ground, he's fast. In that case, downtilt. If he jumps from a wavedash, you can fair or forwardsmash. Fair's less risky, and forwardsmash is ... you know.

Luigi's descent game is based on his nair covering him, which doesn't work on Roy. Roy can aerial neutral b, he can uair, he can move to the side for a fair, he can even friggin' counter!

Luigi doesn't get comboed easily, except that roy's moves have exceptionally low knockback, and Luigi's really floaty.

As far as edgeguarding goes, if you can't edgeguard a luigi, then you need to work on your overall game some more.

All of these advantages should make the match overwhelmingly... even. lol.

1) so what if Roy has longer range? he has longer range then most characters in SSBM.

2) you're only stating what Roy can do. Luigi has an aerial game that can kill Roy in a second.

3) at that note, think about Roy's overall strategy. Juggling and finishing. he can't get in the air at all, even a SHFFL can be avoided and perhaps punished.

4) he can't get a sweetspot in because Luigi has fast ground moves and can bust a Dsmash in whenever he wants.

5) the nair is affective, very affective at that. it sends Roy upward. there is a name for when you're above luigi and both in the air. Doomed.

 

[Sethlon]

Sheik's chaingrab is horrible. Seriously.
I played SOS at the san an tourny. Literally chaingrabbed from 0-80% every stock. You don't go high enough to land on platforms, if you DI of the stage they'll just run off fair taking the stock, so the only thing you can do is basically wait, try to survive the fair that will come after the 80%ish dthrow, and then hope to god they don't touch you at all after that. Seriously, ask SOS, he himself said that i woulda beat him if not for the rediculous chaingrab.

Heh, CC-> shielding is a lot easier than smash DIing foxes uair. And i've seen people who aren't really that good at smash cc->shield->quick roll the DED instinctively. And it can be done at pretty high percents. Of course, you have to react fast enough to it, and obviously not be in the air or anything.

 

[handsockpuppet]

Sethlon, what do you think of the Roy vs. Luigi matchup?

 

[Sethlon]

Its in luigis favor.

The only thing roy possibly has on luigi is his dtilt, but since luigis floaty as hell its hard to combo him without eating his devastating aerials, and luigis wavedashing and dsmashes make it hard to get dtilts in.
Roy's grab game is pretty much useless, luigi can jump out of a dthrow to fsmash.
Killing luigi is a pain...because of his mobility you won't be hitting him with many fsmashes, and roy lacks a move than can gimp luigi early.

If you get dsmashed, or uptilted, or downthrown, or nair'd, it sets up pretty perfectly for luigi's f/dair, which can kill quite early, especially with roy's gimp recovery.

You can't afford to trade hits even in a 2-1 ratio because all his attacks do twice your damage and he can kill you earlier, so you have to play keep away and rack up damage and hope he doesn't hit you at all. Which is made quite difficult by his super long wavedash and good aerial priority.

 

[Banks]

Neo Neo Neo

 

[handsockpuppet]

Its in luigis favor.

The only thing roy possibly has on luigi is his dtilt, but since luigis floaty as hell its hard to combo him without eating his devastating aerials, and luigis wavedashing and dsmashes make it hard to get dtilts in.
Roy's grab game is pretty much useless, luigi can jump out of a dthrow to fsmash.
Killing luigi is a pain...because of his mobility you won't be hitting him with many fsmashes, and roy lacks a move than can gimp luigi early.

If you get dsmashed, or uptilted, or downthrown, or nair'd, it sets up pretty perfectly for luigi's f/dair, which can kill quite early, especially with roy's gimp recovery.

You can't afford to trade hits even in a 2-1 ratio because all his attacks do twice your damage and he can kill you earlier, so you have to play keep away and rack up damage and hope he doesn't hit you at all. Which is made quite difficult by his super long wavedash and good aerial priority.

You guys would disagree with me about it being in Luigi's favor, but do you dare disagree with Sethlon?

 

[Velox]

Hmmm, I see.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmmm, I see.

Haha Velox just got pwned lol.

 

[Velox]

I never pretended to have as much knowledge about Roy as Sethlon. And indeed I did lol, although I was only partially wrong. It's still an inconsistant technique, however I didn't realize how bad Sheik's CG is, although I will put it to the test later, at this point I'm give it the status as "Sethlon's hypothesis" until a later time, where I may promote it to "Sethlon's theory".

An idiot would never admit he is wrong though.

 

[Sethlon]

The main reason that pretty much no one knows about how bad shiek can chaingrab roy is also due to the fact that almost no one really does it. I mean i've been playing for like almost 4 years now, and i've only ran into two shieks in tourny that actually chaingrab me to shiek's top potential (SOS and some random guy at FC6). Trust me though, when they actually do it, its baaad.

Maybe we can play sometime this weekend, you be roy and i'll show you how shiek can CG ya. (Although I may not have it down good enough to do it perfectly...)

And incase you took what i last said about DED the wrong way, DED is indeed an amazing move, just not a godly move. The whole CC->shield is only one example of the many ways it can get trashed...marth can just block and fair you out of shield, peach's CC->dsmash wrecks DED if you're anywhere near her, capt falcon's nair tears through it if you don't time/space it perfectly, ect.

Now, a perfectly spaced DED tap is pretty godly, because you have the option of running away without getting punished if they shield (unless you're fighting marth, fair outta shield pretty much wrecks that option), or slapping them with a couple of extra hits if they get hit by it. But because its impossible to space perfectly all the time, added in with all the stuff you can do to stop it making it so that sometimes it just doesn't work, its only a really good move.

 

[Levitas]

lol, I guess that's also my bad about the roy v. luigi. I'm not gonna make any excuses for this.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i'm starting to think a lot of people here don't even play roy that much lol.
sheik is without a doubt the biggest roy counter.
Roy's DED is BY FAR his most useful approach, whoever said it was hard to use or useless is ruhtartid

I've never played ICs with my Roy, but i wonder, I wouldn't call them a major counter though, but i'm not sure. seems like DED's and f-smashes would fux them up. IC's can get a stock off a grab on any character, so saying he's chaingrabbable isn't really a factor. but you do have to get into the air to fight IC's effectively, and roy's not so good at that. i dunno.

lol @ the best CG in the game 'not being that bad'

also, i'd say luigi counter roy. i can't really think of anything that roy can do to him. it has nothing to do with range, roy just can't do anything to him except hope for f-smash opportunities.

i don't think link is a problem for roy, they're even at best.

 

[handsockpuppet]

iunno, links can be annoying. while you try to get close, Link moves back and spams projectiles. the nairs are killers, and the second Fsmash is annoying.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I've never played ICs with my Roy, but i wonder, I wouldn't call them a major counter though, but i'm not sure. seems like DED's and f-smashes would fux them up. IC's can get a stock off a grab on any character, so saying he's chaingrabbable isn't really a factor. but you do have to get into the air to fight IC's effectively, and roy's not so good at that. i dunno.

Being chaingrabbable is a huge factor. As an IC main, I can say when I was learning them I was surprised at how many characters they couldn't chain throw, and how many could DI out at low and high percentages. Granted, if wobbling is legal you can get a stock off anyone, but wobbling can't be set up until around 30%, and a lot of the time Nana isn't set up correctly to wobble.

Also, going aerial with vs. ICs is usually not a good idea. It's one thing for a Falco or Marth player or any fast character in the game. Roy, however, cannot pressure their shield at all and will be shieldgrabbed in a second if you even mess up the spacing a little.

D-tilt is by far the best thing Roy has against them. Fast, good range, vertical knockback. Most of the IC's approaches are ground-based, which makes this a perfect defense for wavesmashing, etc. Also, the ICs hate being in the air due to poor aerial coverage, floatiness, and being light. So use the d-tilt.

F-smash is definitely great if you can land it... ICs are pretty much one-up in speed and in virtually everything against Roy, so it's a lot harder than it sounds. I don't know, I get f-smashed by Marth and Roy a lot when I play ICs, but mostly because I suck.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I hate the IC recovery though -_-. Dthrow Fsmash can separate the IC, and once seperated they're half as good.