Who else is starting to change their impressions on characters?

[RPGsFTW]

The more and more I see King K.Rool in videos, the worse he's starting to look. I understand that everything is a first impression and the "data" looks good, but he seems like he has no combos almost, and when he wins it doesn't even look satisfying.

On the opposite hand, Incineroar looks better and better the more I see him. He runs slow, sure, but his once thought to be garbage recovery is now so much better (still not "great") because he can Side-B first, jump, then Up-B. He can even slightly angle the Up-B, or so I've read, and can air dodge if needed. He seems to be able to combo with a lot of stuff, and his Side-B has combo and kill potential.

That being said, besides K.Rool, to me, almost every character I've seen better footage for is giving me very good impressions. I actually can't tell who would truly be better than the other, and it's really exciting to be honest.

 

[maxistrife]

Well, different strokes for different folks. I am not a combo *****....I just play with who I like XD I play my video games personally to have fun, not to measure pixels and gauge frame data. That being said, I feel MOST of the larger/heavier guys have a harder time doing combos, but as much as I DESPISE the idea of Incineroar, he is looking mighty impressive and unique to play, so you are certainly right about that. I will stick to my dainty princesses and victories against the massive knuckle draggers are all the more satisfying =P

 

[GhostYB]

i feel like the way theyre talking about pikachu is overrated. i get that he had certain buffs that makes him really good but i dont see how hes already 'the best character in the game'

 

[Captain Shades]

i feel like the way theyre talking about pikachu is overrated. i get that he had certain buffs that makes him really good but i dont see how hes already 'the best character in the game'

I thought Young Link was the best character in the game now.

 

[leejaybird]

K. Rool looks pretty good because his up B has a large hitbox on the propellor and covers a large distance. He is probably less gimpable than most heavies.

 

[GhostYB]

I thought Young Link was the best character in the game now.

i keep hearing its pikachu.

 

[RPGsFTW]

K. Rool looks pretty good because his up B has a large hitbox on the propellor and covers a large distance. He is probably less gimpable than most heavies.

I honestly don't think recovery alone helps much if he can't do much else. I get that he has armor on some moves, his Side-B crown looks pretty solid as a whole, he's super heavy, etc, but, again, his combos almost seem nonexistent.

Have you seen Bowser, Dedede, Ridley, Ganon, or basically any other heavy character fight? They actually have combos, and a surprising amount of them are actually REALLY fast AND can do some nasty looking strings. I barely see K.Rool do more than a down throw into something.

I'm saying this because it's obvious that our first impressions are very wrong. Too many people are screaming OP this and that when we haven't played the game, even. Since this is all just general discussion, I feel like it's appropriate to ask if anyone else feels like their initial thoughts have changed. That for me, again, is that K.Rool's viability looks questionable. Rather, he doesn't seem nearly as good as people first gave him credit for, is what I'm thinking now.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

King K. Rool is the only superheavy besides Dedede with a viable recovery. After that, it's too early to tell, there's simply not enough data. Incineroar looks pretty broken, though. He's scary lookin'.

 

[ZephyrZ]

K.Rool has an interesting character design, imo. Superheavies tend to have a hard time with being combo, juggle, and zoner fodder, and K.Rool has natural ways around those last two built into his core character design. He can deal with juggles by using his armor, he can deal with zoners thanks to having a reflector. Yeah he lacks crazy combos so far but he should have a solid enough damage output regardless.

I don't see Incineroar being high tier at all. Mobility just seems like a huge deal breaker for him. Yeah he has insane grabs, but he has no way to approach and no way to force an approach, so he's going to really suffer in neutral and poor landing and recovery options. He'll be really scary when you're cornered, but he has to corner you in the first place. Basically he makes me think of Smash 4 Ganondorf. He's strong but it's going to be an uphill battle for him to really take advantage of his strengths.

That said, this game is still looking fairly balanced in general. Being able to attack out of dash should improve everyone's approach options, including the aforementioned Incineroar and Ganondorf. I can't imagine them being completely unusable.

King K. Rool is the only superheavy besides Dedede with a viable recovery. After that, it's too early to tell, there's simply not enough data. Incineroar looks pretty broken, though. He's scary lookin'.

Don't forget Charizard just because he's not on the CSS anymore.

 

[Fell God]

Not meaning to come off as condescending, but, how does Incineroar look like he's better than (or even close to as good as) K. Rool? The king has a lot more mobility, a non Little Mac tier recovery, two projectiles as opposed to none, loads of armor which makes his kill options safer, kill confirms, and most importantly: more mobility. Perhaps people like myself are giving King K. Rool too much credit, but I can't see Revenge being able to carry Incineroar anywhere near K. Rool. Mobility is huge in Smash, and while K. Rool is still a tad sluggish, he apparently has a great dash dance to nullify that, and being heavy doesn't mean much if you get gimped at the same percentages that lightweights get outright KO'd, if not earlier. Again, I'm probably being too hopeful about K. Rool because I actually want him to be good, but I really don't see Incineroar being a good contender. He looks fantastic, graphically speaking though, and he's one of the many characters I feel like I will enjoy fighting against until I die at 30% due to a Revenge fueled side smash lol.

(Also to clarify, it's not that I want Incineroar to be bad, just that I don't really care if he is because I won't be playing him much. But I still do think he's a contender for bottom tier based on what I've seen)

 

[leejaybird]

Also don't forget that K. Rool's down throw grounds opponents. It's basically a kill confirm at higher percenta. Also after watching some gameplay, the propellor on his UpB can actually hit opponents at the edge of the ledge if the bottom of the stage is angled and not straight up and down.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I'm not sure why there's a comparison between K. Rool and Incineroar now. I asked about differences in opinions / first impressions considering new footage, lmao.

What I was saying is that I'm thinking K. Rool is starting to look worse and worse to me over time. The comparison of him to Incineroar in regards to their mobility has to be a joke, because K. Rool is also pretty damn slow. Good recovery or not, that doesn't automatically make him a solid character.

And Incineroar has a bad recovery, sure, but I haven't seen many moves straight up launch you sideways or at a downward angle. So minus the obvious edge guarding, Incineroar should have a decent time recovering otherwise.

Also, I'm definitely thinking there's a whole ton of assumption that speed means everything. I get that he doesn't have a projectile, but consider that not all characters do either, and some will inevitably approach him. AND, unlike Little Mac, Incineroar has solid aerials, so you won't have the easiest time platform camping him.

So, to repeat my answer off of my initial question, I'm getting impressions that K. Rool is worse than I thought and Incineroar is better than I thought.

 

[J0eyboi]

I think people are massively overrating Pichu. He easily has the least range in the game, and his mobility is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. His damage output is lackluster given how hard a time he'll have getting in, he will literally always lose trades, and he's made of paper, dying to basically everything before he even gets to 100%. In addition, his physics suck. His fall speed is significantly higher than Pikachu's, but both his gravity and fast fall speed are identical to Pikachu's, meaning he gets all the drawbacks of being a fastfaller with none of the benefits. Sure, he's adorable, but he's not good.

Isabelle is also being overrated, lloid mine is nowhere near as good as people think it is.

 

[KingOfKazoos]

King K. Rool is the only superheavy besides Dedede with a viable recovery. After that, it's too early to tell, there's simply not enough data. Incineroar looks pretty broken, though. He's scary lookin'.

I wouldn't say he's broken. He's the second slowest character and speed is important. He does do a lot of damage and "run the ropes" looks insane, but I really can't see him being 'broken'. Not to mention his recovery is pretty lackluster.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I wouldn't say he's broken. He's the second slowest character and speed is important. He does do a lot of damage and "run the ropes" looks insane, but I really can't see him being 'broken'. Not to mention his recovery is pretty lackluster.

His edgeguarding/pressure is insane though. I'm not saying he's Meta Knight overpowered, but he can take cheesy stocks pretty fast.

 

[pap64]

For me to change an impression of a character I have to, you know...play the game.

But in all seriousness, the only impression that has changed is that it now seems like ALL the characters have the potential to be really good, heavies included. I have seen some Bowser and K.Rool matches and man both of them look like BEASTS in the ring. I love the speed some of the other characters are bringing. Overall, I get the sense that all these characters have a certain level of polish and smoothness that makes me want to play them all.

And yeah yeah yeah, the competitive Smashers can makes a million videos saying which ones are top tier or high tier, which ones work and which ones don't. But to me I have never been part of the competitive scene, I just play characters that I have fun playing with, tiers be damned.

So no impressions for me until I have this game in my hands.

 

[Crystanium]

I'm waiting for the game, but ever since ZeRo's videos about certain characters like Pikachu and Young Link, a number of people have taken his word as gospel.

 

[ZephyrZ]

And Incineroar has a bad recovery, sure, but I haven't seen many moves straight up launch you sideways or at a downward angle. So minus the obvious edge guarding, Incineroar should have a decent time recovering otherwise.

Also, I'm definitely thinking there's a whole ton of assumption that speed means everything. I get that he doesn't have a projectile, but consider that not all characters do either, and some will inevitably approach him. AND, unlike Little Mac, Incineroar has solid aerials, so you won't have the easiest time platform camping him.

Speed isn't everything but it's pretty dang important. It's not a coincidence that Dr.Mario, Dedede, Ganondorf and Zelda were some of Smash 4's worst ranked characters while the upper half of the tier list tends to have average to outstanding mobilty. The issue comes from the fact that without mobility, these characters really struggle to approach or keep up the pressure. They can be powerful when they corner their target, but cornering them in the first place is not an easy feat when you have no means to approach. There's no point in having amazing combos and grabs if you struggle too much to land them in the first place.

I know it's early to call it and my predictions tend to be pretty conservative, but I have a really hard time seeing Incineroar not being on the lower end of the tier list. He's a character who can't camp, can't approach, and has a vulnerable recovery on top of all of that.

 

[KingOfKazoos]

Speed isn't everything but it's pretty dang important. It's not a coincidence that Dr.Mario, Dedede, Ganondorf and Zelda were some of Smash 4's worst ranked characters while the upper half of the tier list tends to have average to outstanding mobilty. The issue comes from the fact that without mobility, these characters really struggle to approach or keep up the pressure. They can be powerful when they corner their target, but cornering them in the first place is not an easy feat when you have no means to approach. There's no point in having amazing combos and grabs if you struggle too much to land them in the first place.

I know it's early to call it and my predictions tend to be pretty conservative, but I have a really hard time seeing Incineroar not being on the lower end of the tier list. He's a character who can't camp, can't approach, and has a vulnerable recovery on top of all of that.

Yeah exactly. With no projectiles and slow speed, he'll probably be pretty easy to zone. The Belmont's will be a NIGHTMARE for him. The only way you can make up for no gap closes is with speed like Captain Falcon. And sadly Incineroar doesn't have that. So it's really going to depend on the match up.

 

[GhostYB]

Speed isn't everything but it's pretty dang important. It's not a coincidence that Dr.Mario, Dedede, Ganondorf and Zelda were some of Smash 4's worst ranked characters while the upper half of the tier list tends to have average to outstanding mobilty. The issue comes from the fact that without mobility, these characters really struggle to approach or keep up the pressure. They can be powerful when they corner their target, but cornering them in the first place is not an easy feat when you have no means to approach. There's no point in having amazing combos and grabs if you struggle too much to land them in the first place.

I know it's early to call it and my predictions tend to be pretty conservative, but I have a really hard time seeing Incineroar not being on the lower end of the tier list. He's a character who can't camp, can't approach, and has a vulnerable recovery on top of all of that.

he's definitely around low mid tier. his recovery is mostly what ruins his entirely, the power on his moves kinda makes up for the lack of speed though, you can get some decent follows ups that do a lot of damage and kill pretty early if you're smart with him. his moves don't come extremely slow either.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I know it's early to call it and my predictions tend to be pretty conservative, but I have a really hard time seeing Incineroar not being on the lower end of the tier list. He's a character who can't camp, can't approach, and has a vulnerable recovery on top of all of that.

But that's the thing. I said he seems, to me, like he's going to be better than most initially assumed, which is almost definitely a straight bottom tier character. He might still very well be, for reasons stated and more, but I think he's worth mentioning because this is a speculation thread. That AND if this game has balance seems as good as we hope, it's very possible that even though he could end up bottom tier, he's still solid as a whole, like basically all of the characters in PM.

 

[icecooler]

Im gonna say King Krools gonna be sick with the combination of his dash dance and pivot grab, and he has a burial down throw. Usually super heavy weights have a kill confirm off a grab but the percents are specific. Think about when you get grabbed by DK at 85% vs 120%. If that becomes his main kill option he doesn't have to worry about a specific percents for consistent kills like heavyweights usually have to.