Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Rage.]

In all of the Brawl trailers it doesnt look like they are using any real tech skill
but I think DI will definitly still be in it.

 

[JoyfulDoom]

I wasn't able to read everything in this thread (7 pages, I tried!), so I apologize humbly in advanced, but if alot of people whine about not having wavedashes or glitches or whatever, can't the Wii just release a patch to enable it? Or an illegal patch to come out for you to download on your Wii or whatever?

I don't own a Wii, so I'm asking.

 

[Red Exodus]

I don't know, since I don't own a Wii either. But since you only read the first 7 pages you might have the wrong idea about how people feel about stuff like wavedashing.

Most people here will still buy and play Brawl if it doesn't have WDing but few people will play Brawl competitively [if it doesn't have WDing].

 

[Sensai]

^^^

I think most people feel that there won't be a competitive scene to PLAY sans wavedashing. Which is probably wrong.

JoyfulDoom: it's possible that patches could be released, but it's not very likely. It's even less likely for custom patches to be released.

 

[Red Exodus]

I meant to say advanced techniques but I never got around to editing. The more simple Brawl is the less likely they'll be a competitive scene.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I meant to say advanced techniques but I never got around to editing. The more simple Brawl is the less likely they'll be a competitive scene.

Nah, there will be a competitive scene no matter what. But if its lacking wavedashing or a decent amount of advanced techs its likely a lot of melee players wont bother crossing over and will keep competiting in melee which will probably be around for years to come anyhow.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

melee is a game that is unique in that it was the players that molded the game into what it is. Melee wasnt suppose to be as competitve and as deep as it is. There is no way that brawl can improve on melee. Melee is a perfect game. the best we can hope for is a game similar to melee. but chances are they are going to chnge it and screw sumtihng up. Brawl should simply be more charaters and new stages with the same fighting engine as melee.

I see either two things happenening when brawl comes out 1. The game is completly different and isnt playable at a competive level 2. The game ends up being close to to melee to where u can learn the small changes and still push the game to its competive limits.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

melee is a game that is unique in that it was the players that molded the game into what it is. Melee wasnt suppose to be as competitve and as deep as it is. There is no way that brawl can improve on melee. Melee is a perfect game. the best we can hope for is a game similar to melee. but chances are they are going to chnge it and screw sumtihng up. Brawl should simply be more charaters and new stages with the same fighting engine as melee.

I see either two things happenening when brawl comes out 1. The game is completly different and isnt playable at a competive level 2. The game ends up being close to to melee to where u can learn the small changes and still push the game to its competive limits.

That's pretty much exactly my opinion. I agree completly.

 

[killaxmayne]

Well, I am very nervous when it comes to brawl. I am not for sure if it has been mentioned on this thread but I would almost bet that Samus will lose her bomb jump with the Zero Suit Samus. If you want to know about how much Nintendo cares about the competitive side of Smash, that may be a forebearer to bad news.

I have heard recently that you can play with the Wii mote but that would automatically eliminate wave-dashing because it doesn't have an
"L" button. True, Nintendo still may include it but they might just do away with it. This would also do away with "L" Cancelling. In order to keep Smash as it is, Nintendo must not allow the Wii mote. Even if you can still you use the GCN controller, they would take away button on there in order to make it equal to wii-mote users.

I personally see the Wii mote as a fun gimmick but it could possibley screw up Brawl.

 

[Red Exodus]

I'd hate for Samus to lose bombs just to transform into ZS, it's part is the reason she's number 3 on the recovery tier list [I can't remember if it was offical, meh]. The only way out would be to make ZS a separate character, anything else would be ******** [like taking a certain % of damage, using a Super Smash etc.].

I don't like the idea of using the Wiimote, but other than using a GCN controller that's the best solution since classic controllers require you to have Wiimotes [wiimotes plug into the classic controller, pretty ******** imo, way to go Nintendo].

 

[Johnknight1]

I'd hate for Samus to lose bombs just to transform into ZS, it's part is the reason she's number 3 on the recovery tier list [I can't remember if it was offical, meh]. The only way out would be to make ZS a separate character, anything else would be ******** [like taking a certain % of damage, using a Super Smash etc.].

I don't like the idea of using the Wiimote, but other than using a GCN controller that's the best solution since classic controllers require you to have Wiimotes [wiimotes plug into the classic controller, pretty ******** imo, way to go Nintendo].

The Wiimote won't be used, I can almost guarentee that. GCN controller will pobablly be used, maybe CC as an extra option(even if I don't like it). I agree with Red, the CC plug in the CC is pretty retarted. If the GC controller isn't used (I heavily doubt this one), Nintendo would have to make a more traditional controller for more tradition games, primaraly SSBB.

As for Zamus and Samus, they'll be seperate characters most likely, or at least they should be IMO. IMO that is just straight out how it should be, and that would probably work the best.

Hopefully Brawl will still have wavedashing and waveshining, otherwise there won't be as big of a competitive sceen, considering how important they are. I think if SSBB is more simplistic, it would probably have more simplicity when it come to wavedashing, and/or the slower gameplay could make it easier for less experienced players.

Just as long as wavedashing isn't dropped, I think I'll be good, but if it is expect the competitive Melee scene to still remain. I seriously doubt wavedashing will be dropped, but it will probably be more simplististic for easier use for less experienced players.

 

[Red Exodus]

I agree with just about everything you said.

I heard that wavedashing stops more noticeable [sp?] glitches from occuring like characters airdodging into or through the stage. I don't know how true this is but at least it sort of makes sense.

 

[GreenMamba]

While Nintendo will probably push the Classic Controller for Brawl, they'd be complete ******* if they didn't make it compatable with the controller that comes with the system.

And while I would prefer ZSS to be seperate from Samus... all evidence seems to point otherwise. But don't write her off just yet. We don't know how it will be handled.

 

[Red Exodus]

There was a thread/poll about it, I remember most of the votes going to them being separate. The second highest vote was for them to be like Zelda and Shiek, but that would mean sacrificing a move. I think ZS will handle great, judging by the trailers, but if it's too ******** to get to transform into her [like using a super smash, most people will probably turn them off] then she'll automatically suck.

The choice seems to be between a Zelda/Shiek-esque transformation or separating them, I'd like to see more viable ideas on this matter but that would call for extremely creative thinking.

 

[Keige]

While Nintendo will probably push the Classic Controller for Brawl, they'd be complete ******* if they didn't make it compatable with the controller that comes with the system.

And while I would prefer ZSS to be seperate from Samus... all evidence seems to point otherwise. But don't write her off just yet. We don't know how it will be handled.

Do you want to use the Wiimote to play this game? All 3 of Nintendo's main series (Zelda, Mario, Metroid) are all using the nunchuck which Nintendo has been labeling as optional. It makes just as much sense to use the CC because the Wii only comes with one nunchcuk, not 4.

 

[Red Exodus]

Wiimotes are built for motion sensing. There isn't going to be motion sensing in Brawl so it would be pointless to use a controller built around motion sensing for a game that doesn't support it.

 

[Sensai]

You guys line of reasoning for it NOT being the CC is because it's an additional 20 bucks? You guys realize that GC controllers are also that much, usually more? The other point is that CCs require you to have Wii remotes...which you already do, as you're playing a Wii game, that you bought for your Wii, that you probably purchased in a retail box, which includes a Wii remote.

GC controllers will probably be supported. Wii remotes will more then likely be supported. I can almost guarentee you that the CC will be the main option for playing though. I'm not sure how anyone could draw anything but that conclusion. Explain, and we'll debate some more.

 

[Red Exodus]

I hate to admit it but wiimotes will probably be the default controllers for Brawl, GCN controller support is probable and CC is a big maybe.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

The gamecube controller is made for playing smash, i dont see y they would change it, even though its on wii, smash is a tottaly different game, there not looking to base smash off of the wii's trend to make games innovative with the controller. smash was perfected with melee and if theyre smart they'll stick with what works..

 

[Johnknight1]

I hate to admit it but wiimotes will probably be the default controllers for Brawl, GCN controller support is probable and CC is a big maybe.

^^^ ya I think that is what will happen. Despite Nintendo possibly pushing the Wiimote/CC most everyone will stick with the GC controller. I seriously wonder if Nintendo will make a controller for more traditional games, instead of relying on a controller for classic games (hence the name), and the GC controller.

Sooner or later Nintendo will need a controller that is used for more traditionally controlled games (such as SSBB), that can't use the Wiimote, or would be better using a more traditional controller. This certainly raises another question that makes me wonder if Nintendo will make a new Wii controller, maybe a upgraded/redone GC controller of some sort?

 

[WR3K]

guys, as much as i support the GC controller for brawl, think about this:



when a game comes out, its a very bad decision to make it ONLY playable through past controllers only......


so.... it might have some wiimote +nunchuk compatablility or classic controller usage...

 

[Red Exodus]

^^^ ya I think that is what will happen. Despite Nintendo possibly pushing the Wiimote/CC most everyone will stick with the GC controller. I seriously wonder if Nintendo will make a controller for more traditional games, instead of relying on a controller for classic games (hence the name), and the GC controller.

Sooner or later Nintendo will need a controller that is used for more traditionally controlled games (such as SSBB), that can't use the Wiimote, or would be better using a more traditional controller. This certainly raises another question that makes me wonder if Nintendo will make a new Wii controller, maybe a upgraded/redone GC controller of some sort?

True, they can't always rely on the Wiimote for every single game, and they can't rely on CCs since it's mainly for classic games, that and that fact that we have to connect wiimotes to the CC in order for it to work.

OFF TOPIC: Another thing that pisses me off:

Why are all of the controllers wireless? They don't even have chargers so now I'm gonna have to stock up on a bunch of batteries everytime I want to do a marathon. That is just stupid, seriously, who the hell comes up with ******** stuff like this? The Wii's controller design and peripherals [I know I spelt this wrong but I can't be bothered to find the right spelling] are all flawed. I hope Nintendo realizes this sooner than later and fixes it.

Microsoft, a company that is now in it's second gen, is thinking ahead more than Nintendo [you can buy your controllers wired or wireless, with a charger or without, whatever floats you boat], a company that was in the biz for, what, 5 gens now? Jesus Christ, they need to start using their heads over their.

/rant

ON TOPIC:

They really do need to make a different controller, the current ones make no since and cost far too much money, I'm gonna be playing Wii games alone [when I get it] for a long long long time to come at this rate.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

guys, as much as i support the GC controller for brawl, think about this:



when a game comes out, its a very bad decision to make it ONLY playable through past controllers only......


so.... it might have some wiimote +nunchuk compatablility or classic controller usage...

Think about this.

I made that

 

[Mr.GAW]

Think about this.

I made that

They really do need to make a different controller, the current ones make no since and cost far too much money, I'm gonna be playing Wii games alone [when I get it] for a long long long time to come at this rate.

I couldn't agree less with either of you. Wiimote would work pefectly fine for Brawl W/O motion sensing. Prove me wrong.

 

[AxemRed]

guys, as much as i support the GC controller for brawl, think about this:



when a game comes out, its a very bad decision to make it ONLY playable through past controllers only......

Why is that? I don't understand what you're basing this opinion on. I don't disagree with you that there will be functionality with at least one of the wii controllers...but...if it only used the GC controller, would it be such a bad thing?

 

[Sensai]

GAW, thank God. Common sense was taking a beating in here, glad to see some back-up.

^^^ ya I think that is what will happen. Despite Nintendo possibly pushing the Wiimote/CC most everyone will stick with the GC controller. I seriously wonder if Nintendo will make a controller for more traditional games, instead of relying on a controller for classic games (hence the name), and the GC controller.

Sooner or later Nintendo will need a controller that is used for more traditionally controlled games (such as SSBB), that can't use the Wiimote, or would be better using a more traditional controller. This certainly raises another question that makes me wonder if Nintendo will make a new Wii controller, maybe a upgraded/redone GC controller of some sort?

You haven't played with a CC, have you? Seeing doesn't count; I'm talking about holding it in your hands and playing with one. If you haven't, I can completely understand what you mean...it does look too small, looks too uncomfortable, doesn't seem like it would work.

But trust me, I have one. I LOVE it. In fact, I really wish they would make it so that GC games could be played with it, as it's, IMO, one of the best controllers ever.

It's not named 'classic controller' because of classic games. It's named that because it's classic in the sense that it's not original....it's old-school, if you will.

I am almost sure that the game will have a CC control scheme, as it is, as you guys put it, a more traditional style game. Same with Fire Emblem, which only works with the CC (I'm pretty sure. I know it doesn't work with the Wii remote, although I wish it did...it's one of those games that really needs it).

[Edit:]

AxemRed, it wouldn't be a bad thing, per se, it would just be a dumb move on Nintendo's part. That means that they'd have to continue to manufacture GC controllers for a much longer time.

And I had something else to say...but I don't remember. But pretend you've all been philosophically enlightened.

 

[ecstatic]

Sensai, I hope that's the way they do it. Playing with the Wiimote is a really bad idea, unless they're the gods of awesome control ideas or something... The CC seems the smartest idea, IMO, because there's no way Ninty will continue making an outdated controller for ONE game. (Although the option to play with a GC controller is plausible.)

Oh, and you can play fire emblem with Wiimote... but apparently it's really terrible to play that way.

 

[Red Exodus]

I couldn't agree less with either of you. Wiimote would work pefectly fine for Brawl W/O motion sensing. Prove me wrong.

I can't. It's subjective. Nintendo made a ******** error that is the Classic controller and now we have to live with it and it's ******** entirety.

Why is that? I don't understand what you're basing this opinion on. I don't disagree with you that there will be functionality with at least one of the wii controllers...but...if it only used the GC controller, would it be such a bad thing?

Probably because they stop selling after a while. I've seen PS1 controllers around [which says something, gaming suck *** down here] so it's not like all of the controllers will disappear of the shelves.

People probably wreck the GC controllers pretty fast too, whether or not they play Smash, I remember one guy said he went through 7 controllers on Kirby Air Ride alone, and if all else fails they'll be third parties to rule that domain.

GAW, thank God. Common sense was taking a beating in here, glad to see some back-up.

.... Him again, I don't handle fanboys too well so if I disappear for a while...

You haven't played with a CC, have you? Seeing doesn't count; I'm talking about holding it in your hands and playing with one. If you haven't, I can completely understand what you mean...it does look too small, looks too uncomfortable, doesn't seem like it would work.

Unless he means it wouldn't work if that was the only controller supported, since you need to attach the wiimote to it. I honestly thing tht was the most ******** decision made so far, that and the decision to not help Sony get started and the decision to make N64 use cartridges instead of CDs even though it was cheaper.

 

[AxemRed]

Probably because they stop selling after a while. I've seen PS1 controllers around [which says something, gaming suck *** down here] so it's not like all of the controllers will disappear of the shelves.

People probably wreck the GC controllers pretty fast too, whether or not they play Smash, I remember one guy said he went through 7 controllers on Kirby Air Ride alone, and if all else fails they'll be third parties to rule that domain.

AxemRed, it wouldn't be a bad thing, per se, it would just be a dumb move on Nintendo's part. That means that they'd have to continue to manufacture GC controllers for a much longer time.

Yeah, I kinda realized my folly right after posting lol. Should've just deleted the post, in retrospect. I agree with Sensai though. The CC is really good. It's like...a modded SNES controller. But modded in the best ways possible. I used it to play Super Castlevania, it was great. Yes, there is the fact that the CC has to plug into the remote...maybe Nintendo wants to sell more remotes this way XD. Seriously though, who doesn't have at least two wiimotes by now? Two wiimotes is all you need really...your friends can bring over theirs and voila, you have four. Otherwise, I don't think you need more than two to play online anyway, assuming it works well.

Edit: And a lot of big games require/will require the nunchuk anyway, so I think CC for Brawl is a huge possibility...maybe even a probabaility.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I figured my image would at least get a LOL. Oh well.

Smash64 online is like friggin' crack. Im playing like 3-4 hours a day I cant even help myself I own so so so much. Not saying im anywhere near pro obviously, Isai's videos still blow my mind but I have trouble finding people that can beat me now.

Axem I want a rematch with your jiggs now, I havent solved my auto dash problem but ive intergrated it into my game, and I have found a way to pivot and to walk. Im about 97% of what I am on N64 now, I cant blame my controller / emulator for my performance anymore because im back up to speed in the game.

 

[Volvagia]

I'm not very nervous that Brawl will suck because Melee was and is so good. The only thing I'm afraid of is that Nintendo will put in some stupid sense control with the the Remote.(Not sure how to say it in English) I hope you can play Brawl with GC-controller.

 

[AxemRed]

I figured my image would at least get a LOL. Oh well.

Smash64 online is like friggin' crack. Im playing like 3-4 hours a day I cant even help myself I own so so so much. Not saying im anywhere near pro obviously, Isai's videos still blow my mind but I have trouble finding people that can beat me now.

Axem I want a rematch with your jiggs now, I havent solved my auto dash problem but ive intergrated it into my game, and I have found a way to pivot and to walk. Im about 97% of what I am on N64 now, I cant blame my controller / emulator for my performance anymore because im back up to speed in the game.

Oooh, a rematch! Ehhxcellent, Smithers.... my heart is racing like a raging bull! (You know the rest) I must warn you though, I don't play as often as I used to, so I might even be worse than last time XD. We'll see. If you actually do destroy me, I guess I'll have to go into overdrive mode again, and play every day/other day lol.

If you want to play tonight I think I have some time later...we should team up too though. Just a thought .

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Oooh, a rematch! Ehhxcellent, Smithers.... my heart is racing like a raging bull! (You know the rest) I must warn you though, I don't play as often as I used to, so I might even be worse than last time XD. We'll see. If you actually do destroy me, I guess I'll have to go into overdrive mode again, and play every day/other day lol.

If you want to play tonight I think I have some time later...we should team up too though. Just a thought .

Cool. We would **** in team battles. Man I got a 15%-145%-death combo with pika the other day, sweetest SSB combo of my life, involved mostly utilts and fairs from the lowest part of hyrule castle UP the platforms finishing with a sweetspoted lightening that hit pika for the huge knockback effect and blew the guy up into the sky

His comment was ''**** man that was harsh''

and I was like ''FVKING PWND!!!!!''

Im really liking smash online, Im getting a feel for various playstyles and establishing mindgames I had never done before in SSB. Before I would always just attack hope it hit and then combo, but now Im beginning to understand the basics / advanced parts of baiting, faking, and other mindgames.

PM me when you wanna play Axem, im free tonight.

 

[Ianthraxx]

I couldn't agree less with either of you. Wiimote would work pefectly fine for Brawl W/O motion sensing. Prove me wrong.

Well... alright.

I guess, in the end, it is a matter of opinion, but I think it'd be hard to disagree with the following. Here are the basic moves in a Smash Bros. game:

Jump
Sheild
Grab
Normal Attack
Special Attack

That's five different moves. Held classic style, the Wiimote only allows easy access to two or three of it's buttons (1, 2 are natural, A is a tiny bit awkward and needs you to shift your hand off the D-Pad). B is more awkward to get to than A. And for the fifth, unassigned move so far... whoops, we're out of buttons. Unless you want to move into + and - territory, which would be a horrible design choice.

Sure, you could make it so the only way to jump is by pressing up, and that'd take out one. And you could eliminate the need for a grab button by making it Sheild+Attack. It would work, on paper.

It just wouldn't be easy, fun or elegant to play. Smash Brothers is a fighting game, so it relies heavily on quick and easy button presses. Hell, even if you disagree there, nobody wants to play a game with that awkward, neutered control scheme. It would work, it just wouldn't work well.

EDIT: ...unless you're talking about using the CC, but that isn't the Wiimote, right? The CC would probably be alright, haha. XD

EDIT AGAIN: Oh, and, on topic, I hope Brawl doesn't suck. I don't expect it to. :D

 

[Sensai]

Unless he means it wouldn't work if that was the only controller supported, since you need to attach the wiimote to it. I honestly thing tht was the most ******** decision made so far....

I'm not sure why it was such a bad thing. The only really noticeably bad thing about it is the lack of rumble.

And GAW isn't a fanboy. He's a well respected poster whom I've come to look forward to conversing with.

 

[Red Exodus]

Anthrax you're my hero, I have no experience with Wiis so I'm in uncharted turf here, but from the pictures using the wiimote + nuchuka with other games might be good [especially sinse the motion sensing is supported most of the time] but for fighting games it'll probably suck, I heard DBZ turned out good but that uses motion sensing.

EDIT:

It's not fair/wise for Nintendo to force people to buy controller to play a game, no matter how good it is, it's just not fair/wise. I know it's not much money if you just buy one for yourself but if you want to play with friends who don't have Wiis you'll be looking at spending over $100.

Well maybe I went overboard with the fanboy comment but I find it odd that he showed up the day the topic changed to controller options.

 

[Keige]

Is the CC really that good? I have one, but I've never had the chance to play it (don't have a credit card for VC games and don't really have the money to buy any anyway) and I don't like the fact that the left analog stick is on the bottom (fricking dualshock). The Gamecube and XBOX had it right, but Nintendo went back to the stupid dualshock design. And the ZL and ZR buttons seem hard to hit.

 

[Classic-Black]

The CC is fine, it'll probably take a little getting used to, since the Z-button is located near the right trigger. it's kind of like holding a snes pad more than anything, but their should'nt be any major problems with the transition.

Also, using DBZ as a fighting game example, everyone whining about how they don't want to buy a CC can most likely shut up. DBZ supported the Wii-chuck (motion sensing) classic controller, and GC controllers. The latter three made due w/o motion sensing and still play fine.

on the off-shot that the GC controllers aren't supported, CC's are fairly cheap, and it's not hard to ween yourself off of the GC controller to the CC one.

 

[Sensai]

Red Exodus: I agree; it's not fair/wise for Nintendo to make us buy CCs. But they ARE a company, and they know people will buy this game regardless. Thus, they're going to milk it for everything they can.

Give 'em the razor, make 'em buy the blades.

 

[Ianthraxx]

Haha, thanks Red! :D

And yeah, I agree with what you guys are saying, it's a shame, but I guess they have to make as much money as they can off consumers, they are a business.

Random note: I recently got some VC games, and I think it's weird how some are optimized for the CC, while some are fine for the GC controller. If DBZ can make them both work, couldn't Nintendo? Donkey Kong Country has the most obnoxious button layout for the GC controller, you pretty much have to buy a CC or it's a waste of credits.