Who agrees that Melee>Brawl? (more inside)

[ThePUNK]

Brawl > Melee as too Melee > 64 smash bros.

Give the game time, seriously. When I first played melee I like what the hell this game sucks, If feels nothing like the original smash. Then I gave it time and liked it. The same will happen with brawl .

 

[Formless]

Just because you're worse with one game doesn't make that game worse.

 

[Var]

Nigh every post in here is biased either from familiarity or fanboyism. It would be silly and illogical to compare a brand new game to an old game. Even if more attention is devoted to Brawl, as opposed to what was given to Melee at the start, things akin to wavedashing can take a long time to discover. Why? Because of random chance. No matter how many people you throw at something, something will always be missed/overlooked. As such, wait at least a couple of months before comparing the two.

Heaven forbid this shotgun logic ever enter the real world or humanity will truly become inert.

All silliness aside... well nothing really but silly. Threads like these are just... idiotic by nature, both sides included. But just to play along.

BRAWLZ TEH LEETZORS!

 

[AeryEcho]

I think I get what the TC's saying, though..
Brawl got nice and balanced, but they made OTHER changes that caused a loss of depth...

For example, it seems that a lot of things are "auto" now (edge-hugging, item grabbing on the fly, etc), or adjusted to be fixed and balanced, giving new players an easier time playing successfully~
But at the same time, Brawl cannot really reach the same level of competitive play as Melee...It still has a competitive level, but it isn't as extreme...

But I still like Brawl better: but that's because I'm non-competitive, and play against friends for the heck of it...It's likely designed for casual players or just non-competitive players in general~

 

[Brawler1432]

This is why I don't come to this forum anymore, its a new game, it eing changed from Melee. It is no doubt etter then Melee, because of its somewhat inproved gameplay, many features, storymode, online capability and so on. But all you guys can this about is floatiness and the small slowing of the gameplay. Why can't you just accept the slight changes, and stop looking into so much detail aout the game. Sakurai never planned it for the competitive sceen, by accident he puts in some stuff that competive players stick onto. And then when the sequel arrives you blame the game for something that was never intended to be in there in the first place. He makes balences characters, and BOOM you guys start complaining. This game is not Melee, and therfore should not be rated by comparing it to Melee. IT'S DIFFERENT. You need to accept that. and tell me, what is all this complaining gonna do for you huh? it's just plain annoying, and blocks out the good parts of Smash Boards. THis is not Melee 2.0 so please don't treat it as though it is.

Just because you're worse with one game doesn't make that game worse.

Stangly enough you make a point.

 

[ObeseNightmare]

This is why I don't come to this forum anymore, its a new game, it eing changed from Melee. It is no doubt etter then Melee, because of its somewhat inproved gameplay, many features, storymode, online capability and so on. But all you guys can this about is floatiness and the small slowing of the gameplay. Why can't you just accept the slight changes, and stop looking into so much detail aout the game. Sakurai never planned it for the competitive sceen, by accident he puts in some stuff that competive players stick onto. And then when the sequel arrives you blame the game for something that was never intended to be in there in the first place. He makes balences characters, and BOOM you guys start complaining. This game is not Melee, and therfore should not be rated by comparing it to Melee. IT'S DIFFERENT. You need to accept that. and tell me, what is all this complaining gonna do for you huh? it's just plain annoying, and blocks out the good parts of Smash Boards. THis is not Melee 2.0 so please don't treat it as though it is.




Stangly enough you make a point.

I'll go ahead and say this guy is getting what I think across... If you don't agree with this you're probably ignorant.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

Wow, was I wrong.

I played the game some more yesterday and Brawl, I have to admit, holds its own.

I know I will get flamed for this but I don't even own a Wii or Brawl.

Someone please lock this thread. It's getting out of hand and its just a big argument.

Overall, Melee>Brawl but Brawl is still a GREAT game.

What a contradiction to my initial post.

The OP's had a shocking revelation, everyone go home

 

[gooseman]

Brawl is not better than Melee.

The best thing about Melee was it's competitive aspect. It's what made people play it for 7 years. It made people want to get better, and they trained for years to reach their goal. People travelled all over the country and the world to play Melee because Melee gave them something to play for. Melee was competitive, meaning that it had certain aspects that set people apart in terms of skill, but, at the same time, made people love it even more because they had dreames to be the best or atleast be recognized as a good smasher. Melee is the bond between the majority of people who play SSB games. Brawl won't be this. With it's lack of competitivity, it'll become another "Hey what game do you want to play?" game instead of "Hey, lets practice some Brawl" game. Melee, for competitive players, was rarely set aside for another game. And even if it was, it was always the glue that held competitive friendships together.

Brawl won't last as long as Melee has.

People played Melee for 7 years because it was the only game of its kind. There was another game made by Hudson that also featured Konami characters, but it was as half @$$ed as a game can get and only released in Japan to boot.

This is why people put up with the imbalances, the glitches and exploits, the same tired characters in every match, and the ******** tournament scene (outside of maybe Evo, which tends to be more professional. MLG is simply a joke.). Because despite the many flaws, it was the only game of its kind, and the very essence of the game made Nintendo fans love it, made fans like me love it.

But here we are now with Brawl, the undisputedly best in the series, and we suddenly don't have to put up with this crap anymore. Some of you might prefer Melee and thats fine, but don't kid yourselves into thinking that Brawl won't phase out Melee, because as it stands now only a week after release, every major gaming, anime, and comic convention I know of that holds gaming tournaments has permanently stricken Melee from the line-up in favor of Brawl.

Brawl is here to stay until the next Smash, ladies. Assuming there is another one, that is. As it stands right now with Sakurai, Brawl may be the peak so I'd suggest getting used to the changes.

 

[Shackel11]

But then your opponent air dodges and your combo is ruined and you can't even follow up because there's no penalty for air dodging. Also, Lvl 9 comps will never count for anything, stop pretending they do.


Also, enough with this "you only hate brawl cus there's no wavedashing" ****. No real competitive player hasn't already broken the habit and gotten over it. It took me three matches to break the habit and get into the flow of brawl, that didn't make it any better. And whats with this "Fight in the air" crap? You act like Melee was a ground based game or something. The problem is that aerial combat doesn't really work because the new air dodge system allows you to negate anything your opponent attempts to do in the air. And of course I have to bring up the fact that Brawl is really played on the ground with a shield. The shield is the most broken thing in the game, but you n00bs don't seem to realize it. Without L-canceling there's no way to approach a shielding opponent without getting shield grabbed. So this means in a 1 on 1 battle with two non-projectile characters the aggressor will always lose as his opponent can simply shield grab for the entire game. Even worse, in a 1 on 1 battle, if one character has a spammable projectile(pit) and his opponent doesn't, if played correctly, the projectile spammer can't lose. They can force their opponent to approach with spam then shield camp until their ready for the kill. This is BAD GAME DESIGN. Yes, Im sure Sakurai never expected people to NOT mindlessly run forward and attack, but that doesn't change the fact that he and his team didn't think about how broken the defensive side of this game is.

Fail.

They air dodge, it doesnt matter, try and try again, add things, take out things, that's how a game is played. If you want some inescapable combo that's impossible to dodge, block, or pretty much do **** against it, go play Tekken or Mortal Kombat, in there there are "OMGAHULTRAPOWERFULNOSKILLNEEDEDATTAKWAOAHAWOOOOOAHHHHH*insert button spam of up ^ up ^ up^ up ^ up ^* Melee? HA! You noobs can't agree on anything! You always say "TOO FLOATY OMFG" yet you think you can use "You act like Melee was ground-based" It's called gravity. Melee= Higher Gravity = Less Air Time, barely ANY air time for that matter. Up B attacks had almost NO use except for getting back on stage. Wow, air dodging is like blocking. Deal with it. Shields? Talk to Tekken people, Mortal Kombat people, it's called BLOCKING. People who are good can grab very quickly once they stop blocking. The shield runs out, unlike other fighting games, but complaining noobs like you don't realize it. LAWL! You roll, you grab you attack, you combo. You = Idiot. You spam projectile? You shield it bounces back, they are stunned for a second, the moron can try and try again, but all you have to do is roll or shield, and then beat the crap out of their nooby arse. Chances are, that nooby arse would be like you. In other words, ADAPT, GET OVER YOURSELF, oh, and for the final piece, STOP ALL YER *****IN. You fail. The end. Ta-fricking-da.

 

[Vinodh]

I am sure most of the people who post pro brawl were not very involved with melee.
As a player who played melee for a few years and now plays brawl, I guess I'll put in my two cents.

Overall, I believe Melee>>>>>>brawl

Wavedashing-Many will probably say "YOU DONT NEED WAVEDASHING TO MAKE A GOOD GAME". That may be true, but wavedashing can (and did) make smash more interesting and indepth. It added to competitive play by speeding up character movement and affecting spacing. It allowed characters to perform certain combos that would not otherwise be possible such as waveshining. It also opened a new door for better mindgames. To say that no wavedashing in brawl makes the game better...simply doesn't make sense.

Slower movement-Characters in brawl move much slower than from that of melee. Like the creator of this thread mentions, it seems like all characters are floaty. It's like all the characters gained 100 lbs (but dont show it). I mean ganondorf can barely even walk in brawl. Slower gameplay is not as good as the fast gameplay from melee. Faster character movements=more attacks, more combos, and a more rapid paced game. Faster character movement forces people to think on their feet and also adds to the competitive scene.

L-cancelling-Same thing as wavedashing. L cancelling allowed characters to perform new combos and also helped make the competitive scene....more competitive. L-cancelling seperated the men from the boys.

Death percentages-Characters in brawl may live up to 148 %. Players no longer need to worry about a fsmash at 60 percent, or heck, even 100 percent. This can get very annoying, especially with the slow gameplay. There's a reason brawl matches are usually only 3 stock...even 3 stock matches take forever.

In general I am not saying that brawl is a BAD game...just that it is terrible compared to melee. Sure this game is fun. But the main question you have to ask is for how long the fun will last. Melee has lasted 7 years, still interesting people here on the boards. Why? Because there were interesting new tactics involving lcancelling, wavedashing, dashdancing, and chaingrabbing...the game is more competitive, and there was ALWAYS a way to get better at it. Face it...you loved melee when you pulled of a shinespike or a triple u air combo, when you chaingrabbed and dysynced with your icys, when you baired 4 times to a rest, when you superwavedashed across the stage to a fsmash, or when you performed a spectacular triple knee. The pride and happiness felt by performing such feats in melee will not be felt when playing brawl, mainly because you wont have to work at all in order to do anything in brawl. Any scrub, even somebody who has never played brawl, can most likely pull off the same combos i pull off with my diddy kong or my squirtle, despite all of my "researching" on smashboards in the character specific thread. Hopefully new advanced techniques will be found. Until then, I shall enjoy brawl...for as long as it lasts.

EDIT: now that i look back on others who posted in this thread, i am not surprised. Many of the people are indeed people who did NOT play melee, who did NOT play in the competitive scene. therefore they have nothing to compare brawl to...if you're comparing brawl to melee, you have to at least know how melee worked. You cant just compare brawl to something you know NOTHING about.

 

[Pink Reaper]

What the **** is a Melee?

This is my favorite post ever.

Fail.

They air dodge, it doesnt matter, try and try again, add things, take out things, that's how a game is played. If you want some inescapable combo that's impossible to dodge, block, or pretty much do **** against it, go play Tekken or Mortal Kombat, in there there are "OMGAHULTRAPOWERFULNOSKILLNEEDEDATTAKWAOAHAWOOOOOAHHHHH*insert button spam of up ^ up ^ up^ up ^ up ^* Melee? HA! You noobs can't agree on anything! You always say "TOO FLOATY OMFG" yet you think you can use "You act like Melee was ground-based" It's called gravity. Melee= Higher Gravity = Less Air Time, barely ANY air time for that matter. Up B attacks had almost NO use except for getting back on stage. Wow, air dodging is like blocking. Deal with it. Shields? Talk to Tekken people, Mortal Kombat people, it's called BLOCKING. People who are good can grab very quickly once they stop blocking. The shield runs out, unlike other fighting games, but complaining noobs like you don't realize it. LAWL! You roll, you grab you attack, you combo. You = Idiot. You spam projectile? You shield it bounces back, they are stunned for a second, the moron can try and try again, but all you have to do is roll or shield, and then beat the crap out of their nooby arse. Chances are, that nooby arse would be like you. In other words, ADAPT, GET OVER YOURSELF, oh, and for the final piece, STOP ALL YER *****IN. You fail. The end. Ta-fricking-da.

I love you because your posts are always so ******** they make me laugh. Never ever change. Now then, on to serious buisness. Your ********. In order for a combo to be a combo, it has to actually work every time. You asserted some random string of attacks that could not possibly work, that you did on a level 9 computer no less, as a combo. Yes, in smash, there is no button specific combo's but at least in melee there were things that would always actually work as a combo. I can do what you did, try this, pick Kirby, Utilt, Uair, Uair, Uair, double jump, Dair, Utilt, double jump, Air Hammer. Ta-da, it's a combo, and if your opponent does absolutely nothing, it will work. However, since this is Brawl, it will end up more like this: Utilt, your opponent jumps/airdodges, combo over.

Some other things that show how ******** you are: In Brawl, power shielding does NOT reflect projectiles, as such, you can't rely on it to stop projectile spam. And you can't just LOLROLL->GRAB against a projectile spammer as 1) most projectiles that are very spammable are fast, low lag, and have huge distance and 2) because rolling will leave you open. And yes, I understand about blocking in other games, the only difference is that in other games and Brawl is that you do have to wait at least a few frames when leaving a block before grabbing, in Brawl, you don't have to wait as you can power shield with ridiculous ease and get around what little lag is there, not that it matters as EVERYTHING in the game is laggier than a grab so if anyone attempts to hit you while your shielding = free grab.

Finally, the fact that gravity was higher in Melee does not change the fact that most of the game was played in the air. If you had any actual experience in the game and weren't a ******** n00b you'd know that in competitive melee, only the IC's really function as a ground based character(except maybe an overly CC crazy Peach/Samus god those are annoying) But since you obviously have no idea what your talking about, I won't hold it against you.

 

[lookatthatbaconsizzle]

Brawl is way better.

Brawl is more fun to play, more to collect (I loved collecting trophies in Melee), Horrible story mode, TONS of amazing music and more. Seriously guys, the story mode is horrible.

Overall, Brawl>Melee.

Fix. NOT awesome story mode. No matter how much you THINK it is.

 

[KernelColonel]

I think the biggest problem with the threads going around here with all the Brawl hate is that people have seriously not played the game enough. If they had, they'd obviously realize that A) comboes are still in the game, and B) players who were good at Melee will fawking destroy people that weren't.

I've looked up videos, I own the game by now, and I must say, all this talk about comboes being removed is stupid. I BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW MARTH STILL HAS DOUBLE FAIR TO F-SMASH FOR LIKE 30+%. And Sonic is crazy, I did a quadruple fair on someone and killed him with a downsmash. Those are immediate examples; there are more.

Oh, here's a video of Zamus destroying Lucario with two comboes that amount to 70+%, each doing at least 35: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8PxU2_stc

Tell me there aren't comboes.


Second, it's tough to watch everyone go on a mass exodus back to Melee because Brawl's too FLOATY. No, it's not too floaty, you're just not good enough at the game yet. Take a closer look and you'll find that you're still defeating your friends 1v1 because Brawl didn't take away from general prowess. In 6 weeks, if you've played the game enough, you won't complain about how floaty it is because it will be worked into your system. It is much like the adjustment from 64 to Melee -- people were not used to the speed change and COMPLAINED about it for a long time. Yet, people adapted, players got good at the game, the world kept turning. Now that Brawl is out, people are complaining about how much slower it is. Don't fret. You'll adapt, you'll become fast, and some will get great at the game.

 

[Imsohappy]

MELEE > brawl

 

[DRaGZ]

The floatiness in the game is not an issue really...I've played for a good...70 hours now I think, and we're gotten quite fast in terms of what we're doing in the air and how fast we approach. Wolf is a great character for doing that.

 

[Burning Lava]

Yeah, I don't know, I think most of us are torn. As I've said before, I'm starting to like Brawl, and I want to give it good long chance to sort of... pick up, but at the same time I want to wring Sakurai's annoying little neck!

 

[ksimp23]

this is my view on the 2 games.

Super Smash bros Melee was very fast-paced and lots of fun. But to me it was so fast paced that all you did was button mash and it felt pointless.

Super smash bros Brawl is the better game because it is a little more slow paced and i think it is better that way.

 

[Pink Reaper]

all you did was button mash

 

[MuraRengan]

all you did was button mash and it felt pointless.

lol, noob. Yup, I'm sure reverse aerial falcon punch is a product of button mashing.

 

[ksimp23]

lol, noob. Yup, I'm sure reverse aerial falcon punch is a product of button mashing.

ummmmmmm......yeah.........soz bout that ur right it wasn't all button mashing but still i think FOR ME that the game pace was too fast and im looking forward to a slightly slower pace in Brawl

 

[Hydde]

I find the game very interesting and fun.

My only real concern... is how long the game will last without all this crazy *** techniques which appealed to masses.

I hope people diesnt get bored of it, because yeah its easier and less flashy. People like flashy things to show off, but when everyone is doing almost the same,,,, is not funny.


Im just crossing fngers.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

God dammit, this topic is getting ****ing old. How many threads have we had about this?

And you have no excuse. You're a Smash Lord. I'd expect this from someone new to the boards, but from someone who's been here long enough to post 1000 times?

You have the IQ of a brick. A smart brick, but a brick none the less. Not because of your opinion, but because you choose to make this thread for the umpteenth time.

 

[berserker515]

what i really see going on here. melee>brawl supporters are trying to bully the opposition into seeing it their way. and brawl>melee supporters really have no idea what their talking about (for the most part). i do find it a little heart breaking seeing something i been waiting for for so long get bashed by a bunch of douchebag bullies who claim brawl lacks competition or isn't as competitive as melee. the truth of the matter is any game can be competitive. think of 2 guys trying to beat each others speed runs in megaman. is that not competition? once 2 people are pitted against each other to achieve a common goal its competition. in cases of brawl being as competitive as melee. it took over a year for melee to become what it is today. brawl, people are just starting to play. hell i still don't own the game yet (sold out :-( new shipment in a few days). people have been saying this a lot and it's true--give brawl some time.

i read someone saying anyone can pick up, play and win. that is true to an extent. i spent all day yesterday having a mini smash party at a friends house. though i don't own the game i managed to win a few matches because of my smash experience in general. my friend who owns the game and the others that did also won the most matches because of the time they spent with the game. and those who haven't played brawl at all or smash in general didnt even pose a threat. so a level of skill is required.

i don't understand how a topic like this gained so many pages. its all just people stating their opinions or just being a ****. honestly this could all end if both sides agree to disagree and leave it at that.
also those who just feel that melee truly and forever will be a superior game. do you feel special wasting time out of your precious life (if you do view it as such) to come here, complain and put people down for liking brawl more? if you do then you have serious self-esteem issues.

 

[azianraven]

Its amazing how the differences two games can get people riled up

besides that I will just say what i think of this.

ATM Melee has a more indepth and comprehensive feel in the multiplayer sense while Brawl strips that down and reduces it to a more, in lack of a better term, "newb-friendly" game.

I dont see anything horridly wrong with Brawl, but Melee completely overpowers in terms of its depth. Hopefully overtime Brawl will be a more indepth game because i like Brawl

but for now Melee > Brawl

 

[Aberu]

/disagree

thread

JK

Srsly though, they are two different games. I think it would be like comparing Super Street Fighter II Turbo and Street Fighter 3rd Alpha Strike. Both are pretty darn different, both are in the same series and have similarities as well. Some like to play the first, others the latter, no big whoop.

Personally saying that all characters feel the same is false. If you think wavedashing and L-cancelling made the characters feel different, you are mistaken. The fact is that in melee some were abusably good when using wavedashing and L-cancelling. Not just saying for competitive but in general, if you had a friend who played Falco/Fox/Marth/Shiek/Peach, chances are you would end up giving up playing Yoshi so you could actually get some wins. Our group started out with Me as Yoshi, and my friends as Marth and Shiek. Jee wizz I found out quickly why in our 10 stock free for alls I kept on dying with them at 3-5 stock still. I change to Peach, we are all playing evenly. The Marth changes to falco to keep up with Shiek's speed eventually, and now it's slightly less even, but still competitive. If it took us to play these small number of heroes for us to have a winning chance, I'm certain that Brawl>Melee. Now it's still too early for either to make a decision. Before the game came out I just pleaded for people to give Final Smashes a chance before they even disregard them just from watching videos like every egotistical ******* WAS DOING. We played with them for 4 days. It was just too abusable with fox/falco/sonic/yoshi/wolf etc... The main reason actually was popping the smash ball was too random. I would hit it 4 times as sonic, dedede would hit it once on the first hit.

That was the only disappointment one of the central new features of Brawl was the Final Smash, and it really makes the game not fun to have them on. Turn them off however, and it's a lot more fun, balanced, etc...

 

[Waddle]

I just read the title and I agree 1000%. Melee will always be the best.

 

[zeionut]

i say melee is better than brawl...

 

[ObeseNightmare]

If melee is better than brawl... then are you even still playing brawl or sticking with melee... because when I have a game, I usually play the best one I have until I have to go back to something else.

 

[AznHalfCaucasian]

Some of my friends who play competively are starting to complain about Brawl saying that they get beat by people who never play Brawl before or never learning every technique in the game. Some are like "man why this and why that." At least they say "I guest we can go back to playing Melee." Done deal.

There is more to the game than advanced techniques, but I myself know that stuff from Melee. Brawl is just a different game to play with.

 

[Scar]

what i really see going on here. melee>brawl supporters are trying to bully the opposition into seeing it their way.

I don't really see this. I have argued for pages that Melee is more competitive than Brawl, and the only bullying I do is a product of other people not seeing the point over and over again.

and brawl>melee supporters really have no idea what their talking about (for the most part).

QFT, I agree 100%.

i do find it a little heart breaking seeing something i been waiting for for so long get bashed by a bunch of douchebag bullies who claim brawl lacks competition or isn't as competitive as melee. the truth of the matter is any game can be competitive. think of 2 guys trying to beat each others speed runs in megaman. is that not competition?

The widely-accepted definition of competitive in this sense is an inherent property of a game allowing the players who should win to win. In Melee, those who should win will win. This is the best part of competitive SSBM.

No noob will walk into a tourney and win ever. No casual player will win ever. No competitive player will beat a competitive player that's better, all other things equal.

Brawl does not reward players as much for their practice and technical skill. This is what it means to not be competitive. In Brawl, the only time that someone will definitely win is if their skill is MUCH GREATER than their opponent. In Melee, players will CONSISTENTLY win when their skill is only SLIGHTLY BETTER than their opponent.

You are confusing competition with competitiveness.

I'm making a thread about this.

 

[Brawler1432]

MELEE > brawl

14 posts, I thought so.

 

[Default092]

The same thing happened when Melee came out. People just couldent get over 64 and wanted to know what the hell all this new **** was. People need to realize that replicated games with better graphics only are NEVER fun.

And I for one like the floating. It adds for better air battles and you can pull off some really good combos in the air.

And no, I am NOT a casual SSB player.

Im sure when SSB4 comes out, everyone will be like "dude Brawl >>>>>>>>> SSB4!!!!!!!"

 

[Aesir]

^ you've been on these boards no longer then a month, andyou know how the melee transition went?

Lol

 

[Blu-ninja]

I dont see why everyone's hating this super balanced game...

 

[Soluble Toast]

I don't know why, but I totally cringe at the thought of ever playing Melee again =/

I'm so satisfied with Brawl. It's a great game, and great fun. Online is amazing when playing with friends. Hardly ever any lag anymore.
I don't particularly notice Melee's quickness to be honest. I mained Zelda, who was extremely slow in melee, so Brawl seems faster to me xD

 

[Story-Tyme]

I think it's a bit early to tell anything about this game yet, think about the time and effort put into understanding melee.

 

[nabbig2]

Add another one to MELEE>BRAWL!

Okay, brawl is not so bad, so brawl fans, stop whining. But honestly, melee is much better. I think something happened to nintendo...brawl is missing something.

 

[King Axel]

Question.

So you think Brawl isn't as good as Melee. Now, what are you going to do about it?

 

[Zyphent]

The point is, this game isn't melee, quit comparing the two.

They both have a different game style, requiring different tactics and skills, just because this game doesn't play EXACTLY LIKE MELEE with more characters (which it seems thats what you wanted) , doesn't mean its a bad game.

Don't like it? Go back to Melee, no difference to anyone here im sure.

 

[MartinGM1983]

I was upset when I first started playing Brawl too. But I realized that it isn't melee 2, it's an entirely new game with a new physics system and such.

I really don't like certain aspects of the game ( tripping for one ) but with time, I'm sure things will get better.