Who actually wants customs at Evo?

[cot(θ)]

Despite poll results showing the community heavily in favor of customs, it's been suggested that the respondents to those polls don't accurately represent the players that will actually be attending Evo. That's why I've created this poll - to clearly distinguish between respondents who are attending Evo, and respondents who are not, and determine what the competitors of Evo really think of making custom moves legal.

Edit: If the legality of customs affects whether or not you will compete in Evo, consider yourself a competitor at Evo for the purposes of this poll.

 

[AnchorTea]

A simple poll on a forum can't determine every single opinion on the customs.

Just saying...~

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Personally I'm not going to EVOs, but I think that customs should be allowed at the tourney. I think it will shape the meta of the game in a positive way, and make matches more interesting. And even though it will cause some variability, if it really is a problem in the end, we will use EVO as a learning experience. But we can't rule out anything just yet.

 

[cot(θ)]

A simple poll on a forum can't determine every single opinion on the customs.

Just saying...~

The goal isn't to find every single opinion - it's to get a representative sample, separated by whether or not the players are going to Evo, which no poll I've seen has done.

 

[AnchorTea]

The goal isn't to find every single opinion - it's to get a representative sample, separated by whether or not the players are going to Evo, which no poll I've seen has done.

Really? There hasn't been atleast one? I'm surprised.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

I do.

And while I'm not going to evo, I don't see why anyone would really want there to not be customs. I think that there are some foreseeable problems, but the only way to really see if customs can really be used at a competitive level is to try them out.

Maybe this is too soon, maybe we should wait for the standard meta to establish. Or maybe that would be a waste of time because customs improve the game more than even the biggest optimists believe. Can't hurt to find out

 

[Pyr]

Going to Evo. I want them there.

 

[Raijinken]

Pro-customs at all events. And until it's set in stone that they WON'T be at events, I'm inclined to only attend events allowing them.

 

[DunnoBro]

I'll probably attend any sm4sh event I can, which is why I'm going to both EVO and CEO despite wanting customs at both.

I support sm4sh. Can't help it.

Obviously preference will be given to customs events, though.

 

[Hippieslayer]

"it's been said that the results of polls are inaccurate; therefore, I made a poll to see if the results measure up"

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

This is an interesting idea; hopefully this will seal the deal for our repeated claims that customs really are the popular side.

 

[Tristan_win]

Although unlikely it would really interesting if a real survey happened at EVO as well. Just have it right next to the sign in station with a stack of paper labeled with 3 options pro,con, don't care for customs and a turn in box (cardboard box with a hole cut in the top) at the end of the table.

 

[ninrok]

Going to EVO. Prefer customs.

Also supporting customs in my local scene.

That said, I'm also super-new, for what it's worth.

 

[Meowjesty]

It's clear I'm the small minority but I don't support customs at EVO. I'll be honest, I am a pro-custom player and was one of the people who were supporting it and stating "it'll offer more diversity to our play, we just gotta test it out and see if it'll be viable". However I feel enabling customs at such a big event like EVO is to soon. In my opinion, are meta hasn't even fully developed yet and I feel like by adding customs will make everything clustered. I was thinking holding off customs for EVO but still have it tested in smaller tournaments and if it's a success that's when we could start adding them to bigger tournies.

HOWEVER I feel like I should've just put indifferent because I do have that little feeling of excitement about watching custom moves (yesterday tournament on Rushhoursmash with Mii Brawler...) and I definitely do have hope that customs will succeed. I just felt that EVO was to big to test something out like customs at.

 

[Hippieslayer]

The metagame never "fully develops" it's in a perpetual state of development. Moreover, why does the metagame need to develop before customs are introduced? I hear this said a lot and it really bothers me because it makes no sense. What does the development of the no-customs metagame have to do with the matter? Explain it.

No one would say "let's not use unlockable characters yet, the default character metagame hasn't had the time it needs to develop yet", it's a nonsensical argument for arbitrarily cutting of part of the game.

 

[HeroMystic]

While I am bothered by the development of pre-sets along with the lack of development for custom moves on top of that, which is proving to be really difficult to create sets for Mario since we may find something down the line that could screw everything up, I am pro-customs.

I just really dislike how EVO is being inflexible about this. Every single pre-set we make is arbitrarily shaping the metagame because these are the only sets that people can experiment with. Puts a severe amount on pressure on the people in charge of creating sets.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

While I am bothered by the development of pre-sets along with the lack of development for custom moves on top of that, which is proving to be really difficult to create sets for Mario since we may find something down the line that could screw everything up, I am pro-customs.

I just really dislike how EVO is being inflexible about this. Every single pre-set we make is arbitrarily shaping the metagame because these are the only sets that people can experiment with. Puts a severe amount on pressure on the people in charge of creating sets.

Well, the only sets for EVO to be more precise. At smaller locals/regionals it's more reasonable to allow on-site set creation, and experimentation there can inform us when updating AA's project.

I agree it's an imperfect solution but it's better than the alternative.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

While I'm not going to EVO itself, I want my local (just barely starting) scene to use customs.

My local scene wants to more or less stick with what the large tournaments use.

Therefor: if EVO uses customs, I get to use customs.

I also find it, as a spectator (you know, one of the people who make streaming these events profitable), more entertaining to watch matches with customs as there is a bit more variety. Customs on means I watch more matches.

I think this is a point that doesn't get enough attention: if you want people to watch and people to go to your tournaments who know they have 0% chance of winning, they have to be entertained enough to spend their time/money doing so. If turning on customs means you get X% net increase in viewership and Y% net increase of people willing to go to the tournament, customs should be turned on even if Z% of top players don't like them. After all, we're the ones who basically decide how much money they can earn at said tournament in the first place, or how much attention is brought to the tournaments they attend. No pot feeders or viewership means said pros can no longer make a living/nice amount of bonus money on the side of their regular job playing SSB4.

 

[Raijinken]

I think this is a point that doesn't get enough attention: if you want people to watch and people to go to your tournaments who know they have 0% chance of winning, they have to be entertained enough to spend their time/money doing so. If turning on customs means you get X% net increase in viewership and Y% net increase of people willing to go to the tournament, customs should be turned on even if Z% of top players don't like them. After all, we're the ones who basically decide how much money they can earn at said tournament in the first place, or how much attention is brought to the tournaments they attend. No pot feeders or viewership means said pros can no longer make a living/nice amount of bonus money on the side of their regular job playing SSB4.

This is a big point for me, too. I'm barely interested in competing to begin with, customs make it more enticing since I don't play Diddy and therefore can make any character I do play better. And they're FAR more fun to watch. If a stream's running customs, I'll normally break from what I'm doing, sit down, and watch. Otherwise, as often as not, I'll leave it in the background until I need my audio, then I'll cut it off and come back later. It's like stage and character variety, in that way (it's the same reason I'm more likely to watch PM and Smash4 than Melee, and more likely to watch smaller tournaments than watch Zero and M2K play Diddy against each other).

 

[HeroMystic]

Maybe it's because I come from a time where Competitive Smash was nothing more than a hobby and bragging rights, but why are we concerned about money? IIRC, Overswarm talked about living on purely his winnings with Brawl and he stated he barely scraped by with getting Top 3 at every local tournament he been to, and his only chances to make an effective living was by winning regionals.

I know with Nintendo now sponsoring tournaments, we have bigger chances for high/top level players getting sponsored, but we're still mountains behind what other competitive games do. Team Houses, sponsored leagues, donation bonuses, full support from Sakurai, etc. Far as I have observed, we only need money to keep doing what we're doing and nothing more. I understand in the future this can all change, but in the present I don't believe we can use the "More viewers = More money for top players" reasoning. Our community isn't strong enough for that. That's why we always see players using twitch and begging for viewers to subscribe.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Some players are sponsored, are they not?

What would happen to those sponsorships if not enough people watched for it to be worth it to those companies?

And heck, you proved my point by talking about twitch. If we aren't entertained by what is being played, we won't watch or subscribe. Which means less money.

 

[Meowjesty]

The metagame never "fully develops" it's in a perpetual state of development. Moreover, why does the metagame need to develop before customs are introduced? I hear this said a lot and it really bothers me because it makes no sense. What does the development of the no-customs metagame have to do with the matter? Explain it.

No one would say "let's not use unlockable characters yet, the default character metagame hasn't had the time it needs to develop yet", it's a nonsensical argument for arbitrarily cutting of part of the game.

Because the original idea of customs is to bring balance to the roster to end the reign of Sheiks and Diddys and to make "underpowered" characters more viable. However I agree with your point and you definitely changed my opinion on the matter. I think my mindset was more of the only reason to add customs is balancing the game more than adding diversity in the game with custom.

 

[Raijinken]

Because the original idea of customs is to bring balance to the roster to end the reign of Sheiks and Diddys and to make "underpowered" characters more viable. However I agree with your point and you definitely changed my opinion on the matter. I think my mindset was more of the only reason to add customs is balancing the game more than adding diversity in the game with custom.

Balancing would add diversity, though, both within characters (there's a reason we're drafting lists of 6-10 customs per character instead of just one), as well as in the overall roster with more characters being used.

 

[Octagon]

Customs help personalize our characters to tailor to our liking, why not allow them? It also helps low tier characters get a little better, but just a little makes all the difference in high tournament play like Evo

 

[cot(θ)]

"it's been said that the results of polls are inaccurate; therefore, I made a poll to see if the results measure up"

It sounds like you're still a little unclear on the problem I'm trying to solve, and why I expect this poll to solve it.

The problem is not that "the results of polls are inaccurate" in general. The problem is that previous polls on the topic are representative of the community at large, not necessarily of the subsection of the community that will be attending Evo, and therefore arguably should have the biggest say as to whether or not custom moves should be legal there.

By dividing the responses based on whether the respondent will be attending Evo, I hope to isolate the votes of the players who will be attending Evo.

No poll is perfect, or without any procedural bias, but I'm attempting to eliminate a very specific form of procedural bias in this poll, and unless a whole lot of people flat-out lie about whether or not they're going to Evo, I don't see any reason that it wouldn't be effective

 

[Octagon]

Customs are going to be at Evo, so to the complainers out there, no amount of complaining is gonna change it, Evo is just around the corner

 

[Meowjesty]

Balancing would add diversity, though, both within characters (there's a reason we're drafting lists of 6-10 customs per character instead of just one), as well as in the overall roster with more characters being used.

I wholeheartedly agree and I was going to include that in my post but customs also do already make some top tier characters even stronger such as Rosalina.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

I wholeheartedly agree and I was going to include that in my post but customs also do already make some top tier characters even stronger such as Rosalina.

Customs also introduce a lot of anti-Luma moves and tech. Just ask Thinkaman.

 

[Meowjesty]

Customs also introduce a lot of anti-Luma moves and tech. Just ask Thinkaman.

I've actually started to watch custom tournaments recently and unlocking them (Hit 200 today!). I'll check out this Thinkaman person too so I'm more knowledgeable instead of a being ignorant hater / supporter.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I've actually started to watch custom tournaments recently and unlocking them (Hit 200 today!). I'll check out this Thinkaman person too so I'm more knowledgeable instead of a being ignorant hater / supporter.

Paging @ Thinkaman . Thinkaman to the customer service center. Thinkaman...

In the meantime, check out Nairo's custom move playlist.

 

[Meowjesty]

Paging @ Thinkaman . Thinkaman to the customer service center. Thinkaman...

In the meantime, check out Nairo's custom move playlist.

Yeah I'm check out some of Ganon's custom moves in stuff, they look really interesting.

 

[Ultrashroomz]

Whether this ends up a good thing or bad thing, we'll have to see, but I'm personally very open on EVO allowing customs.

 

[[Deuce]]

I'm going. I want customs.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Looks like I'm the only one so far who's attending and remains indifferent.

 

[NGUY (guitarstage)]

Im the only one who never liked customs?

 

[ShortcutButton]

I'm all for Completely Controlled Customs. That means leaving 6-10 custom sets for each character, and they can ONLY use those. If this rule is not followed, the tournament in question degrades to "find the best loophole" and "can I do this? ...how about this?" that is terrible for TOs.

 

[Charey]

There isn't any loophole. If you custom doesn't have equipment you can use it, if it has equipment then you can't.

 

[DD_]

A Fan of Customs or not Surely you must all be curious to see how this pans out? It's only the first year of smash 4 we should just let this one rock for Science!

 

[Eji1700]

So if enough people who are attending evo don't want diddy there, will we ban him? How about Shiek? Zelda maybe for ****s and giggles?

 

[Thinkaman]

So if enough people who are attending evo don't want diddy there, will we ban him? How about Shiek? Zelda maybe for ****s and giggles?

Don't be ridiculous.

We'd ban Sonic first.