Which One of Peach's 3 Forward Smashes is The Best?

[gagelax]

I'm curious as to which forward smash the community think is the best, and as to why it is the best. Vote away, and may the best forward smash win!

 

[SuperScope]

I would go with frying pan because of vertical kill potentional.

 

[gagelax]

I would go with frying pan because of vertical kill potentional.

I agree. The frying pan has the most kill potential.

 

[Airgemini]

Tennis Racket definitely. It's the perfect medium between the other two with having greater kill power than the club but more range than the pan and places opponents in bad positions off stage.

The pan is second. The kill potential on it is absolutely ridiculous. It's weird to say because in every other game I considered the club the best but in this game I think it's the worst. The range is nice but it doesn't have much kill potential on it. When opponents are at high percents I usually cycle it out.

 

[gagelax]

Tennis Racket definitely. It's the perfect medium between the other two with having greater kill power than the club but more range than the pan and places opponents in bad positions off stage.

The pan is second. The kill potential on it is absolutely ridiculous. It's weird to say because in every other game I considered the club the best but in this game I think it's the worst. The range is nice but it doesn't have much kill potential on it. When opponents are at high percents I usually cycle it out.

Good input.

 

[XinShot]

Definitely the Tennis Racket.
It kills just as well as the frying pan with the downside being landing the sweet spot, and its funny to see people fly horizontal and it can force them to recover predictably.

Frying pan is great, funny, and kills but that range is bad but it can catch people off guard.

Club is bad as a kill move. It's range is great though and it can sweep the ledge for some gimps and unexpected plays so it isn't totally useless. It also often sends at the same angle which is nothing too special.

 

[Meru.]

I think it depends on the percent you're opponent is on.

Under 85-100% I think Racket is the best. Racket can kill under 85% if your opponents stand close to the ledge. Even if they don't die, it sends them at a very advatageous angle. It sets up for some really good edgegaurds and some characters won't be able to make it back because of how low they get sent.

After about 85% Pan is the best because it kills. It should kill midweights at about 85% with rage and at about 105% without rage.

After around 130-140% I find Golf Club the best because at this point all Fsmashes should kill, but Club has the most range so you're more likely to hit with it.

One thing I havebeen noticing though is that Pan seems the safest out of all of them because it deals more shield stun. Attacks with high damage usually deal more shield stun that those that do low damage, and Pan deals the most damage. Because of that and because of its killing potential I'd give Pan a slight edge over the other Fsmashes.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I would Prefer the tennis racket
It has rediculously high base knockback and is so good at getting opponents offstage, so it's best used close to the edge then in mid.
The golf club is decent, that range is fantastic and can be used to space against your opponent.

The frying Pan is most likely the best at KOing, but that range is sub-par. It is still very good and I think they all have their best uses.
Overall though, I would still go for TR.

Btw since you did this kind of thread for her F smash, why not do one for her tilts? Like making a Poll on which tilt is the best, same for her ariels, throws, specials and smashes overall, this would make for some interesting discussions and opinions.

 

[Luxent]

I really WANT to say frying pan because frying pan kills are hilarious and feel so righteous <3333

But looking back at my playstyle, I find that I miss a lot, and the golf club remains supreme.

 

[gagelax]

Great responses, everyone.

 

[Phan7om]

I honestly feel they are all pretty good depending on the situation. Golf Club has the range and can hit on ledges and through platforms, Frying Pan has good kill potential, and Tennis Racket can send them at a pretty juicy angle offstage if they are close enough which can be hit out of an airdodge read or something after a Dthrow or Dtilt, and can catch them off guard after a gf Nair.

 

[MetaBhreat]

It's very close, but I think the DI mixup that comes with the Frying Pan is the tiny edge that it has over Tennis Racket.

 

[Peachach]

Fryign pan or Racket. I guess Frying Pan is best for killing potential, but Racket would be my preference. I wish Peach had less chance elements,.. for example frying pan and tracket, no club.. or just one of them..

 

[Airgemini]

^ I like this version of her Fsmash. It's not as much chance based and gives you good options depending on the situation. The other day I broke an opponents sheild and it was nice to be able to "choose" the frying pan to get a nice KO. Whereas perhaps if we were situated by the ledge I would go with the racket. I think it's nice to have options dependent on percent/stage position.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

^ I like this version of her Fsmash. It's not as much chance based and gives you good options depending on the situation. The other day I broke an opponents sheild and it was nice to be able to "choose" the frying pan to get a nice KO. Whereas perhaps if we were situated by the ledge I would go with the racket. I think it's nice to have options dependent on percent/stage position.

Eh, I would still prefer this games Fsmash, it's use overall can depend on the character, for instance
If you face light characters like Kirby, jiggly or a few others, generally you would go for FP because it KOs them early and these characters generally have small range and have to get close.

While heavier characters like Ike, Captain falcon, Link
It would best to use the TR because of the Very high base knockback and the low angle it sends them considering their poor recoveries.

 

[RedBeanPorridge]

Reading through this thread and it doesn't seem like golf club's getting much love. I still love the idea of peach hitting people over the head with a golf club.

With that said I'll have to say frying pan is the best. It's what's hooked me the most kills whereas racket and club have always just knocked people around. Though if I had to rank them I'd have to say:

Frying Pan > Tennis Racket > Golfclub

 

[EdreesesPieces]

You can cook tasty meals with only one of these things. I think this poll discussion is over.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Frying Pan, easily. It hits SO hard especially in Rage - if I break someone's shield I always go for a fully charged Frying Pan as opposed to Up Smash these day. Tennis Racquet is ok but it's crazy sweetspot is no longer as crazy.

I utterly despise what they've done to the beloved Golf Club - similar to F Tilt its range has become really mediocre and its not very strong in the KO department either

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Toss-up between Racket or Pan. I prefer Pan, but it's not easy to hit with. The Golf Club however, isn't useless, far from that: it has decent range, which I use when I want to go for secured hits. Can kill nicely near the ledges as well.

With the way you can now choose the Smashes growing in range but lessening in kill power, you can make the best of Peach's killing options in F-Smash-department.

 

[Neku ネク]

Honestly, all three have kill potential, but Frying Pan + Tennis Racket are the best. I tend (whenever I think about it) to hit people with Tennis Rackets if they suck at horizontal recovery and Frying Pan if I can read them + they have tons of damage.

Racket also works with more damage, but I've killed people at 60% by flinging them off the stage with it lol.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Does anyone know if all peach fsmashes have the same frame duration (including cooldown)? Also, what IS the cooldown/frame duration? The frame data dump from Thinkaman doesn't say anything about Fsmash...

 

[Fuji'n]

@ Captain Zack killed me at like 95 with frying pan so I'm gonna go with that.

 

[Captain Zack]

@ Captain Zack killed me at like 95 with frying pan so I'm gonna go with that.

70%*

 

[CNMNE]

I would go with frying pan because of vertical kill potentional.

I do agree with frying pan, but actually, tennis racket has the most launching power. Frying pan is best because it does the most damage (so is useful in low knock back combos) and is an excellent kill move. Combined with Peach's newly broken u-smash and long since broken d-tilt, Queen Toadstool can benefit from low ceilings, AND thin stages. (because back throw is life)

 

[DrROBschiz]

I kill with all 3 and I typically dont worry about which one that comes out since I adjust my follow up attacks to account for any atttack I land

I live in the moment! I love the RANGE of here Fsmashes though. Golf Club is great for edge pressure

 

[deepseadiva]

Does anyone know if all peach fsmashes have the same frame duration (including cooldown)? Also, what IS the cooldown/frame duration? The frame data dump from Thinkaman doesn't say anything about Fsmash...

This needs to be a board project since no, this wasn't ever figured out since the first time this was mentioned: http://smashboards.com/threads/peach-frame-data.390365/

@ Indigo Jeans said we could try to find this out "manually", but I'm not even sure how to go about doing that.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I can get hit-on frames and cooldown for her FSmashes today! Finding out duration will be a lot trickier though I'll try. I'll post back here with the data in a bit.

 

[deepseadiva]

I can get hit-on frames and cooldown for her FSmashes today! Finding out duration will be a lot trickier though I'll try. I'll post back here with the data in a bit.

All Peaches everywhere would be forever in your debt.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I can get hit-on frames and cooldown for her FSmashes today! Finding out duration will be a lot trickier though I'll try. I'll post back here with the data in a bit.

OMG that would be amazing

The cooldown frames seem to be well more than upsmash which is really a strange concept to me.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'mma pray for good data. Come onnnnn 12 frame or better fsmash.........

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Okay so here's the deal, all of Peach's FSmashes are identical in terms of frame data

Hit on: F15
Duration: F15-17 (3F)
FAF: F45 (27F endlag)

I define endlag as the number of frames between the last frame you have a hitbox out to the last frame before FAF, so in this case it would be from F18-F44

FAF is the first frame you are allowed to input an action and have it occur on the very next frame, just as though you had entered the input from neutral.

They only differ in damage, knockback, and angles

Tennis Racket: 13%, ~40°
Golf Club: 15%, ~40°
Frying Pan: 18%, ~60°

So yeah, that's about it for now I guess.

 

[deepseadiva]

THANK YOU INDIGO

Frame 15 is aight. Makes it one frame faster than fair.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Okay so here's the deal, all of Peach's FSmashes are identical in terms of frame data

Hit on: F15
Duration: F15-17 (3F)
FAF: F45 (27F endlag)

I define endlag as the number of frames between the last frame you have a hitbox out to the last frame before FAF, so in this case it would be from F18-F44

FAF is the first frame you are allowed to input an action and have it occur on the very next frame, just as though you had entered the input from neutral.

They only differ in damage, knockback, and angles

Tennis Racket: 13%, ~40°
Golf Club: 15%, ~40°
Frying Pan: 18%, ~60°

So yeah, that's about it for now I guess.

I can't thank you a thousand times, that's not enough. THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU you're the best!

Anyway the endlag is huge. I THINK it's more endlag than upsmash. Does anyone know if you can tell what the end lag is on upsmash based on the frame data? All I'm seeing is this:

U-smash
Frame 14-16: 17%(+4) 24b/97g (KO@ 113%) 90° Pierce
Frame 14-16: 15%(+4) 50b/97g (KO@ 107%) 90° Pierce
Frame 14-16: 12%(+4) 40b/97g (KO@ 151%) 75° Pierce
Frame 17-20: 12%(+4) 60b/100g (KO@ 122%) 85° Pierce
Frame 17-20: 10%(+4) 60b/100g (KO@ 147%) 85° Pierce
Max Damage: 17%
Smash charge window on real frame 10
Begins partial invincibility on real frame 14
Begins partial invincibility on real frame 14
Begins partial invincibility on real frame 14
End partial invincibility on real frame 21

That doesn't mean the endlag ends on Frame 21 does it? (meaning, FAF is at Frame 22)

Which means if you are going to "throw smashes out" so to speak, and avoid a punish, upsmash is the way to go, not fsmash. But without deciphering the upsmash data correctly I can't exactly tell ya how much faster. But based on the eyeball test (doing both smashes and seeing how fast i can shield) I know for sure upsmash ends sooner. I was just trying to determine the difference in frames here.

Basically, upsmash both starts faster and ends sooner. Provided you are within range to sweet spot either one, there is no reason to use fsmash unless you need the range. To me the Fsmash isn't a good punish tool, it's a spacing tool strictly. This is a big deal to me because it's the opposite in brawl where upsmash took way long and fsmash was virtually nonpunishable. I've struggled adapting to this and now I know the full detail on why.

 

[CNMNE]

I can't thank you a thousand times, that's not enough. THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU you're the best!...
Basically, upsmash both starts faster and ends sooner. Provided you are within range to sweet spot either one, there is no reason to use fsmash unless you need the range. To me the Fsmash isn't a good punish tool, it's a spacing tool strictly. This is a big deal to me because it's the opposite in brawl where upsmash took way long and fsmash was virtually nonpunishable. I've struggled adapting to this and now I know the full detail on why.

Excellent analysis! thank you so much! i was wondering why Usmash was so much more useful now than in brawl. And you're right, even sourspot is priceless on Usmash now.

 

[MarthFanatique]

I honestly feel as if it's entirely dependent on the situation.

For a lot of sword characters (particularly Marth) I prefer golf club because of the range boost to punish my opponent's bad spacing. Additionally, most non-Peach mains know that there is an order of the three Fsmash weapons, so you can fool your opponent into thinking you're going to use frying pan, but then instead you whip out the golf club and surprise them with the extra range.

I feel as if the sweetspotted tennis racket is the best horizontal KO move. Its trajectory is almost purely , making recovery difficult/impossible for some characters that have bad horizontal recoveries (e.g. Little Mac, Mario, Marth). Go for the gimp if they can recover! Furthermore, when sweetspotted, the knockback is extraordinary. Move is best used at the edge of a stage to maximize your chances of the opponent falling to their deaths. Range is pretty good; a good punisher.

The frying pan is great for vertical KO's, so any character that is susceptible to vertical KO's. There was a rest KO percentage video that was on the front page of smashboards for a while. That applies to our frying pan as well; some characters are more susceptible to vertical KO attacks regardless of weight). In addition, stages with low ceilings, or even landing a hit on the top platform of BF for instance, is the best option for the frying pan to secure that vertical KO. I feel like using it during early percentages can also start a juggle (follow up with those uairs, turnips, nairs, etc!).

TLDR; golf club--mindgame range; tennis racket--horizontal KO; frying pan--vertical KO

 

[IrrationalX]

I'd have to agree with MarthFanatique, all three of the moves have nice usage - I've gotten great mileage off the frying pan as a tool for reading an opponent out of their rolls (and since it kills vertically, it has nice application on those low ceiling stages, especially against lightweight characters), golf club has nice range, and tennis racket has such a great launch trajectory.

I've also noticed with the golf club and tennis racket the potential to dip below the edge of the stage slightly and catch an opponent hanging onto the ledge, possibly when they're starting to get up (I'm not entirely sure on what goes on here, as you won't hit them 100% of the time but there's definitely the chance to hit them while they're still grabbing the ledge). Anyways, I've found it very useful.

 

[DrROBschiz]

So how many of you actually micro manage the three?

In the heat of the fight I can ever really see myself doing this. I just change my follow up based on what one I hit with

 

[CNMNE]

So how many of you actually micro manage the three?

In the heat of the fight I can ever really see myself doing this. I just change my follow up based on what one I hit with

I actually micromanage these tools all the time. it might seem like a hassle to remember, but there's sort of a system to it:
I start by cycling to FP so my opponent thinks I'm waiting forever to kill. Then use a turnip to eventually get a grab-> Dthrow-> Floating nair-> Frying Pan. This leads into a nice juggle. This is just one example, but to be honest, sometimes just adjusting to whatever happens is ok. However, optimizing your F smashes makes killing waaaaaay easier.