Where would you rank DK at this stage?

[Illuvial]

Where would you rank Donkey Kong among the rest of the cast at this point? I see TONS of different opinions on him, some putting him in bottom and some putting him as high as top 10 in the game. Where would you put him?

I'd personally put him in the top 15 characters, top 20 at worst

 

[OddCrow]

I see more negative opinions than positive. However, I believe DK is top 1/3, towards the lower end of that group of 16ish.

He is amazing and can completely dominate many characters, but has just a few key matchups that are very hard, even at this early stage of the meta game. I really think this will be the first smash game where most pros play 2-3 characters instead of 1-2, because of how important match ups are.

 

[Lex Jewthor]

The thing with DK is his good matchups are only kinda good, whereas his bad matchups (Rosaluma, Duck Hunt, etc) are REALLY tough, at least at this point.

He feels very good, strong, fun and has great tools, but those specific matchups may be keeping him down.

 

[Tujex]

Middle tier. His buffs don't negate the nerfs he took.

 

[Brickbox]

Though that is true, the game mechanic changes make him an overall buffed character in my opinion.

We Don't have so many bad MUs now because chaingrabbing doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Alacion]

I think he holds his own... but I almost want to give up against campier players/characters plus Rosalina

 

[Blueberry Kong]

probably towards the middle - i think he's good, but other characters are so much better

edit: gotta say he's probably mid-low for sure. He's not garbage tier (MK, Ganondorf, WFT), but other characters are just so much better

 

[_Magus_]

Mid-Low

 

[Will_]

Mid tier, mid-high at best. His neutral game is sick but when he's above his opponent he's just so damn helpless.

Unless you have a giant punch charged for that delicious reverse neutral b.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I see more negative opinions than positive. However, I believe DK is top 1/3, towards the lower end of that group of 16ish.

He is amazing and can completely dominate many characters, but has just a few key matchups that are very hard, even at this early stage of the meta game. I really think this will be the first smash game where most pros play 2-3 characters instead of 1-2, because of how important match ups are.

I'm so excited for Smash 4. It would be amazing where it is normal to have more than 1 main (more than just a few people here and there), as that's just so much more fun than playing just one character. Especially for Smash 4 where there are so many good character designs!

 

[Luigi player]

I'd rank him around ~18th in the game. Sadly he doesn't seem that great, but he can (most of the time) hold his own.

 

[Blade Knight]

I'd rank him among the top third. Not immensely high in that area, but still a very solid choice.

 

[itsaxelol]

between 30-35 prob. low on the mid tier/high on low tier. cant see him being too efficient against most of the cast once the meta game develops further. ie, camping with babies/eggs/needles/guns/waddledoos. projecticles and camping are great in this game, and thats dks weakness

 

[Jellybat]

DK main here. i would say like many others somewhere around mid tier. has fairly solid normals and every B move has a use, but has SERIOUS problems dealing with projectile spam and also has problems fighting enemies that have alot of fast attack options. (omg sonic)

i cry every time i see a yoshi that is fully prepared to spam eggs to force me to close in and get punished.. Dk really could have used a way to approach from air to ground more efficently (giff me your B forward bowser plz)

 

[OddCrow]

A mix up of powershields, short hops, and grounded up-b invincibility are the best ways I've found to "get in". Also, rolling to max distance and charging punch forces some players to approach.

 

[itsaxelol]

just wondering if all of you guys who honestly think dk is so high still feel the same, now that you guys have had an extra two weeks to think about it

ive had it since jp release and im still confused at all of his nerfs, when characters like shiek yoshi zss and even ness exist. i dont think hes very good at all. if you take brawl dk, add 3 good changes, nerf 10+ things, you get smash 4 dk. ****ty recovery and all when everyone else can fly. not even a wall jumpo

 

[OddCrow]

I'm finding that I really really miss at least one good guaranteed followup/string out of his throws

I wish that his cargo throws just sent people 1/2 the distance

I still feel DK is toward the lower portion of the top 3rd of the cast, his incredible weight means that even against fast bully characters DK can live for ages provided he can not get gimped. He also has no trouble killing and one of the best up-b oos options. That said, characters with one projectile are fine, it's the multiple projectile characters who really put in work against him - your approach is so limited that you're gonna get hit by SOME part of the barrage.

Right now I'd put him closer to 20-25 than my original 15-18

 

[TTTTTsd]

Sticking DK in the dead center at around 20-25, or in the 30s somewhere at my lowest estimate, I'd wager. With customs he might skip a little higher (Kong Cyclone on Battlefield is really ****ing ********) but otherwise solid mid. DK is legit the most consistent Smash character ever IMO, you know where he always ends up? Somewhere in the mid tiers. Always.

 

[Big O]

Personally I think he's squarely mid tier. Outside of Up B3 on certain stages, he really has nothing that feels unfair about him. He doesn't beat anyone that badly, and most MU's against the upper half of the cast feel like uphill (but winnable) battles.

While I do like some of the changes he got like Nair AC, the new dash attack, new grounded Up B, Fair being quicker, etc. the nerfs he got make me scratch my head. Both his Dthrow and Cargo Dtoss got butchered. All his Cargo options aside from Utoss feel so laggy and gimped. Dsmash and Usmash feel so weak without rage. Side B losing the float, pitfall state weakening knockback, and still having ******** sourspots. Spikes being techable while standing is also really dumb. Punch shield recoil SD's make me very sad. Punch charging for some reason is bugged and doesn't gain charges correctly. Dair's hitbox got way smaller or something in exchange for hitting a little bit earlier. Ftilt can't really kill anymore. While not really a nerf, his aerial Down B sucks without customs which is just a massive disappointment.

I could probably go on and rant, but what bothers me most is how gimped his grab game feels. I was excited to get combos out of throws with uncancelable hitstun being back, but they went and nerfed them to make sure that wasn't possible. Our only kill throw doesn't kill and our only combo setup gets ruined by DI'ing up, being too floaty, or being at high %'s in general. It's just weird how Cargo releasing people seems more legit than actually throwing them. I wish they were more useful than just getting people offstage or above you.

 

[itsaxelol]

dont forget his recovery not getting better or gaining a wall jump, but getting worse with landing lag
dsmash loosing a hixbox above him
fsmash hitbox having a gap in it
charged punch loosing the back hit
fair range nerf
side b burrying reducing knockback by 50% and being able to mash out easier

dk probably has more indiviudal nerfs to him than anyone not named meta knight

 

[Big O]

Yeah there are just too many small nerfs to list. Up B1 landing nerf is just dumb. Punch sourspot also is way more common now for some reason.

I remember hearing Sakurai saying he feared DK was too strong after the E3 demo, which probably led to some of these nerfs and the gutting of his Cargo Dtoss (I think it actually thew them downwards in the demo like the animation suggests).

Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread into DK Johns - The Thread. I'm just a little disappointed with a lot of minor issues he has in gameplay.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

the buffs definately do outweigh the nerfs. Pretty upsetting. DK is probably bottom of mid tier

 

[Aninymouse]

DK is probably my best character in Smash 3DS, but he definitely has issues. DK, ever since Melee, has always been a character with some stilted match-ups. That's nothing new.

I hate having to fight Robin, Duck Hunt, and even Yoshi in this game. Greninja also can be very problematic.

But honestly, though, I enjoy fighting just about any other character. Some characters are rarer than others when playing online, of course, so I don't feel like I have adequate practice against some, like Bowser or Bowser Jr.

I'm far from being a DK master, but I still really enjoy playing as him in this game. I will say, though, that if you're not using any custom moves, it's tougher to use DK. I really love the super armor headbutt! I feel like the storm punch might be good for gimp kills, too, but I haven't really messed with it much.

 

[Kiwi71]

With all the talk of his nerfs, he's quickly made his way into my rotation.

I don't think he is top tier due to a couple of matchups, but he is very strong for the smash 4 play style. Can gimp offstage, a plethora of early KO moves in a game where 2 stocks is typical, and fairs well against rollers.

Top 15.

 

[MasterCheeze]

Bottom of the barrel for sure. RIP Dankey Kang.

 

[Patrick Ray]

A high mid tier in my opinion.

 

[EvilShadow777]

I recently picked do up and at worst he's high in low tier, likely higher in midtier. Dk uses the new mechanics pretty well to his advantage and he's almost as strong as Ganondorf while being safer to recover with. He has low lag, short to mid range, and lots of power. He doesn't dominate many matchups but he can always put on a strong fight.

Custom moves considered, with gust punch, his dair, bair, and fair do has great gimping game to exploit once he has a lead. He's definitely better off than any other smash dk was.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I find him to be middle tier. The amount of time it takes to wind up his neutral B now is ridiculous. I'm almost positive in every other smash it has been faster. You're lucky to kill someone and have enough time to wind up from start to finish if you haven't already started yet. And seeing how for glory is only two stocks I barely ever find an oppurtunity to get a full charge without getting punished. I think if Nintendo cuts down the amount of time it takes to build up the charge his ranking will move up.

 

[Soulstice Music]

Man.. You are all quite optimistic. I would say that (so far) I have found DK to be the worst character in the game... And I am very very disappointed to say that. Even more so considering that he was apparently left untouched during the latest patch.

 

[Agosta44]

Man.. You are all quite optimistic. I would say that (so far) I have found DK to be the worst character in the game... And I am very very disappointed to say that. Even more so considering that he was apparently left untouched during the latest patch.

Vectoring has been removed and a lot of DKs worst matchups were nerfed. Vectoring alone is a gigantic buff to DK as he can kill as low at 53% and can still live into the 150s with relative ease.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

I find him to be middle tier. The amount of time it takes to wind up his neutral B now is ridiculous. I'm almost positive in every other smash it has been faster. You're lucky to kill someone and have enough time to wind up from start to finish if you haven't already started yet. And seeing how for glory is only two stocks I barely ever find an oppurtunity to get a full charge without getting punished. I think if Nintendo cuts down the amount of time it takes to build up the charge his ranking will move up.

If you've played the Wii U version, I find it much easier to play Donkey Kong like I have in Brawl. On the DS, I almost never used the punch, but now I use it all the time. Also, it's one extra charge to charge the punch if you cancel it, which is kinda silly but whatever. IDK if it's because I can use the gamecube controller now or what, but DK feels much better

 

[CELTiiC]

I just took 3rd using only Donkey Kong at a local tournament and I played characters like Bowser Jr, Duckhunt, Game and Watch, Rosalina and Diddy all tournament pretty much and I'd definitely say DK is top third character in this game. He will roam around low high tier and high mid tier I think. He has a lot of even matchups but his unfavorable ones are very down sided in my opinion. On 3DS I thought Duckhunt dog was a real hard matchup but on the WiiU I found it much easier. He is a very zoney character but down b beats out his range so as long as you know your spacing he isn't a hard match. Anyone have tips against Rosalina though? I've noticed she's very light and when you hit her with a donkey punch I was having success killing her around 70-80% but when she threw luma right off the ledge and kept down smashing and using side b i found it very hard to recover against her and with the lack of maps with platforms I found this to be the epitome to my loss.

 

[GBoGH]

DK Main for all three previous games - I'd definitely say DK is right in the middle. Not great, not bad.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

He definitely feels stronger on the Wii U, and match-ups seem easier. I'd still say he's in the bottom half of mid tier. It's not that he's bad, it's just everyone else is better.

 

[Happy Lion]

After playing with him for a while (1500 or so for glory matches) i would say High middle tier as usual. I've noticed the hard match-ups, but i haven't been destroyed by any of them yet. I also don't think I have played very many good ones to be a good judge of that though.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Coming back here after WiiU Version. My thoughts?

Still mid, somewhere, dunno if high, low, or middle of mid, but he's right in there.

DK's curse will always continue, he is forbidden and always stuck in the mid tier, but I argue it's a blessing in disguise because it honestly makes him one of the most consistent characters to main in the series.

 

[SilverBacKong]

What I would say is he is a solid choice.
CLEARLY not top tier, but like in brawl, probably a 50/50 match up against most of the crew (remember his stats when infinite grab was not considered, and thats finally GONE)
I dunno if it has to do with patch 1.0.4, but he outlives ALOT of people, I rarely die before 140% 160%
And his grounded Up B is far better than in brawl.
I played 8 player smash with 2 friends against 5 lvl9s in team against us, it's increadibly safe, but lag at the end can be pubished.
heavy armor on it as a punishing move to the overeager is sweet though
And he is one of if not the best meteor shooters out there (dair, fair, downb, sideb... master all the timings and u'll get early surprise kills)
I always loved the kong cos I play aggressive and risky, and he has the base speed/power to do so )
such a satisfying fighter

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Vs an elite ness all night last night. Won with Dk (my main) about 10-20% of the time, ness can Pk fire/down throw and fair or uair combo with it or simply use the bat. Pk fire is very hard to deal with.

Anyhow Dk is in the middle. He has his chances in every matchup so they are never lopsided losses, but he falls short every time vs the characters who can combo him. And dks smash moves and punch being nerfed means it's hard to get that final move in to kill.

Btw brawl Dk was far better than sm4sh Dk, the nerfs are worse than the buffs.

 

[Blueberry Kong]

Vs an elite ness all night last night. Won with Dk (my main) about 10-20% of the time, ness can Pk fire/down throw and fair or uair combo with it or simply use the bat. Pk fire is very hard to deal with.

Anyhow Dk is in the middle. He has his chances in every matchup so they are never lopsided losses, but he falls short every time vs the characters who can combo him. And dks smash moves and punch being nerfed means it's hard to get that final move in to kill.

Btw brawl Dk was far better than sm4sh Dk, the nerfs are worse than the buffs.

Well, pretty much all characters got nerfed more than buffed. Everyone in Brawl was just overpowered so they had to nerf a lot

 

[TastyCarcass]

I'd say that the only really bad matchups are the ones which involve sweet spotting. I think he has enough tools to deal with zoners, his up b and his tilts.
His edgeguarding is what can make him good, although that doesn't apply to a lot of the cast. However it's a bit disappointing that his cargo throw is a bit useless now