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Where Have The Rivalries Gone?

Cobrevolution

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In the oldest installment of the Super Smash Bros. series, there has been a steady decline in high level hype, which has caused everyone but those select dedicated few to become less interested in the game and its community. There's a simple solution to this problem...

Where Has the Hype Gone?

Sitting front row at Apex 2014, watching Isai and Moyashi compete in the finals for Smash 64, my eyes drooping from exhaustion, I noticed some things.

The game audio was coming from the speaker aimed in the opposite direction of the crowd, so we had only half a fuzzy ear full of what was going on. The commentators couldn’t be heard due to their distance from the seats. There were no gasps from high-reward risks and there were no sighs of relief from a missed punish. All I heard were bated breaths and light chatter, as if the finals of the largest North American Smash 64 tournament were not happening, as if two of the best players from America and Japan weren’t competing.

Afterward, I noticed that Moyashi’s controller was signed across the top, above the start button, by Isai.


Isai and Moyashi shaking hands at Apex 2014

Friend and Foe: Is it Wise to be Both?

This tells me something – that even at the highest level amongst our best players, the competition takes the backseat, and being friends comes first.

The overall feeling of familial acceptance the community extends to its players is not necessarily a bad thing. It drastically lessens the potential for drama to unfold. Players generally seek nothing more than to spend time with people they only get to see once a year, and thus, most hostility or bad blood is cast aside in favor of playing Smash, often times crammed together in a hotel room or shoved into a spare part of a venue with little room to move around.

Smash 64 doesn’t have national events beside Apex and Zenith. There are few players whose goal lies in proving they’re the best in their states. There aren’t monthly invitationals that involve regional carpools traveling from the East coast to the Midwest to face off in bracket and in a crew battle to settle beef. Hell, there are barely even any more crews around.

As a result, there are fewer groups of people training together with the intent to improve and beat everyone else.


One of the few crews in Smash 64: the Koroshiyo.

Regardless, those who do play together a lot have fallen into the situation of being both a friend and a foe: someone with whom practices can take place, but also someone you're quite likely to fight in bracket. A common problem of sandbagging or even guilt from winning arises from this dual role, and the result is a less competitive game...set...player base...and eventually, community.

Chanting and Crowd Support

When sHEERmADNESS faced off against Ruoka Dancho for the second time at Apex 2014, there was a chant in the crowd of ‘USA! USA,’ to which Ruoka smiled and raised his own fist, yelling back, ‘Japan! Japan!’ sHEER looked on, impassive.

Everyone laughed.

In our most friendly form, nobody meant harm to Ruoka and certainly nobody meant disrespect to the Japanese visitors. The pride that should come with rooting for the hometown competitor was strangely absent, replaced instead with the love of Smash brethren. The crowd chanted something similar during Isai and Kikoushi’s grand finals set at Apex 2013, but once again, it had a very foreign feeling. I fear that we have crafted this idea that we should not be explicitly rooting against anyone, that in doing so it lessens the love, so to speak.


Sheer vs Ruoka, post-comeback and USA chant.

However, there is a large difference between chanting against an opponent purely because he hails from another region, and supporting a hometown hero - or in the following case, a homegame hero.

When Fireblaster made a tournament appearance during the summer's Gluttony edition of Smashacre, we watched as he faced off against Mew2King in Loser's Finals; a Mew2King who spent most of the day running through some of the stronger players in the 64 community, seemingly without effort.

At that point, it was no longer about rooting against Kirby or a frustrating playstyle; it wasn't about wanting Mew2King to lose to force the tournament to end sooner. There was a palpable schism in the room, and the consensus among one side was to blindly support a fellow 64 player who had been competing for over a decade, and not a (primarily) Melee player who doesn't even own an N64 controller.

After the crowd begin chanting Fireblaster's name, he appeared to snap out of a trance and start to over-analyze and over-think the game. He went on to lose the set, taking third behind Mew2King, who lost to Sensei. Since then, the two have met three more times in bracket, with Mew2King emerging victorious each time.

Needless to say, the audience has since stopped cheering for Fireblaster at events, having become cognizant of the adverse effect it had on him. Still, the effort was admirable - in a room with a supposed hero and villain, it was clear who the majority favored. An intense, invested crowd will yield more scenarios like this, the results of which can only be positive.

Reaching the Apex

Smash 64 is fifteen years old. Generally speaking, most competitors are keenly aware of the limits that have been reached, and stick to abiding by these boundaries whenever possible. Combos are memorized by percent, stage position, and character relativity; character matchups are dissected and abbreviated to simple strategies; and techniques and skills are honed to being unconscious muscle memory.

The game has been around so long that few things are surprising anymore. Most hits are expected, and a lot of hype stems from the unexpected, from the hard reads and the high risks. However, the surest, safest paths to victory lie in bread-and-butter combos, and most players have adopted that mindset of simplicity yielding wins, and stuck to it. That is, they have reached a comfort zone they can fall back on, one that involves playing the game as a learned sequence instead of a freestyle.

Complacency is the murderer of competition. From it comes laziness and autopilot, and 64 has suffered through its fair share of all three.

Which is why it has become necessary to stop considering pure gameplay as the primary deciding factor of hype, and instead focus on the players themselves. Pit overly aggressive players against annoyingly defensive players and watch the differences unfold. Put a guy with strong fundamentals and patience against someone who performs only for the crowd and let the games begin.

Or watch a player like tacos (who, though generally favored to place highly, was not assumed likely to make top-8) make a historic trek through Loser's bracket at Apex 2014, finishing in fifth place overall after a third-round loss in Winner's to Isai, and stand in awe of the achievement.


Then again, Isai still pulls off new things each week...
The Debris

It is not difficult to see that the community at large has taken a less actively competitive approach to the game, whether it's by avoiding rivalries or becoming complacent with itself and its performance. The primary audience of Smash 64 consists of its players, and if the players shy away from a fundamental component of competition (conflict), there will be a loss of interest.

The only thing that will remain will be a plateau upon which the community sits, content with ignoring the peaks of improvement and expansion visible on the horizon.

In a game nearly as old as most of its players, it simply doesn't have the natural means of staying relevant and competitive on its own through resale, upgrades, easy acquisition of necessary parts or stable, flawless online play. Only the community's interest, care, hype and ambition can keep Smash 64 afloat.


Cobrevolution can often be found in strange places, if you take the time to look closely. If you cannot find him, you can try reaching him via his twitter, @ Cobrevolution Cobrevolution .
 
D

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So was this an overly extensive way to simply say "Smash 64 is getting old"?

It will always be remembered and looked fondly upon but we're on the brink of SSB4 now. It should be obvious that the community is going to slowly dwindle.

I'll tell you where the rivalries have gone : newer games.
 

Sedda

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Nicely written COBR, but I didn't like the overall tone. You make it sound like 64 is done being figured out.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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So was this an overly extensive way to simply say "Smash 64 is getting old"?

It will always be remembered and looked fondly upon but we're on the brink of SSB4 now. It should be obvious that the community is going to slowly dwindle.

I'll tell you where the rivalries have gone : newer games.
Yeah, it is getting old but that doesn't necessarily mean that those who prefer Smash 64 should either stop playing Smash 64 and turn to newer games or to just give up trying to advance their craft. I think the game still has a lot of potential and will need dedicated fans to continue it. It is a common fact that it will dwindle unless the core players are able to renew interest in the game. It is less of "why is the community slowly dwindling?" to "The community is slowly dwindling so what can we do about this?"

I do think this article has a fatalistic tone to it but I think it is attempting to call to attention and bring to the spotlight the current problem SSB64 fans are facing and hopefully by addressing the problem, reinvigorate the hype in the game. Or that is my hope anyways. Overall, a nicely put together article, Cobrevolution.
 
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Adond

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The only way to have a :shaker: flowing through the tournaments is to call 1-800-nojohns
 
D

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Yeah, it is getting old but that doesn't necessarily mean that those who prefer Smash 64 should either stop playing Smash 64 and turn to newer games or to just give up trying to advance their craft. I think the game still has a lot of potential and will need dedicated fans to continue it. It is a common fact that it will dwindle unless the core players are able to renew interest in the game. It is less of "why is the community slowly dwindling?" to "The community is slowly dwindling so what can we do about this?"

I do think this article has a fatalistic tone to it but I think it is attempting to call to attention and bring to the spotlight the current problem SSB64 fans are facing and hopefully by addressing the problem, reinvigorate the hype in the game. Or that is my hope anyways. Overall, a nicely put together article, Cobrevolution.
I guess I wasn't meaning to imply that Smash 64 specialty players are some kind of dying breed or riding a sinking ship, or even that they should stop playing (especially if they enjoy it). It's just that it's pretty obvious what's happening which is inverse to the sentiment behind asking the community "What's going on?". There's really no reason to ask, it's just the life of a game running it's toll, point being, there's no one (or even a few) things forcing this to happen. It just happens kinda.
 

Sangoku

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Concerning m2k it's not exactly a hate. As stated in the article, it's more about a "stranger" coming into our community beating everyone. As we're a small community and as we stick together I think it's a normal reaction to hope that one of "us" beats him. And this is especially true since he plays a character that we all hate and has a particularly cheap playstyle. Admitedly it's more because we suck against Kirbies and we don't know how to play this matchup (cf Ruoka vs Killer at apex to show that we are bad against Kirby).

All in all I think it's a good thing m2k plays 64 and since it raises some rivalry isn't it beneficial for everyone?
 

pidgezero_one

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64 is experiencing a renaissance in Toronto.

Wonder if we'll have a crew...
 

ChunkyBeef

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In a game nearly as old as most of its players
You pretty much answer your own question right there. There's no rivalries, no hype, 'cause there's no-one out there with new tech that hasn't been discovered yet, no-one out there is up-and-coming. There's no hype 'cause it's the same set of five or six people placing and winning major tournaments.

All of the hype anymore comes from two equally skilled people getting into a death dance on the last stock, otherwise, matches are just players going through the paces. That's where I see the majority of the hype, the cheering, the tension coming. It's reminiscent of the game's earlier days, but now it's just kinda gotten old, y'know?

I stopped watching Smash tournaments because I realized it's the same thing over and over again. A bunch of unknowns/regular hopefuls hit the brackets with the pros, get creamed early on, one of them maybe manages to squeak into semi-finals, and then it winds up being the pros coming to blows for the tournament money.

The hype is gone 'cause there's no unpredictability, both in the games and in the players. There's no randomness. It's gotten to the point where most of the time, you can see who's coming onto camera and know who's winning the match. There exists such a skill gap now that no-one new has a chance to win, unless they participate in obscure local tournaments.
 
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Handy Man

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That title was misleading. I thought this article was going to cover the series as a whole, not just N64.
 

KeroKeroppi

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You pretty much answer your own question right there. There's no rivalries, no hype, 'cause there's no-one out there with new tech that hasn't been discovered yet, no-one out there is up-and-coming. There's no hype 'cause it's the same set of five or six people placing and winning major tournaments.

All of the hype anymore comes from two equally skilled people getting into a death dance on the last stock, otherwise, matches are just players going through the paces. That's where I see the majority of the hype, the cheering, the tension coming. It's reminiscent of the game's earlier days, but now it's just kinda gotten old, y'know?

I stopped watching Smash tournaments because I realized it's the same thing over and over again. A bunch of unknowns/regular hopefuls hit the brackets with the pros, get creamed early on, one of them maybe manages to squeak into semi-finals, and then it winds up being the pros coming to blows for the tournament money.

The hype is gone 'cause there's no unpredictability, both in the games and in the players. There's no randomness. It's gotten to the point where most of the time, you can see who's coming onto camera and know who's winning the match. There exists such a skill gap now that

My suggestion: stop letting pros use their mains and secondaries, or stop letting them compete completely. Or, better yet, separate the pros from the other players. Then we'll actually have some genuinely hype matches for the first time in years, 'cause things stop being boring and predictable by shortening the skill gap.

You have no ****ing clue what you're talking about.
 

ChunkyBeef

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You have no ****ing clue what you're talking about.


Sorry that you're so new to the scene you don't see what I see. Maybe in another decade or so, when we're still watching M2K and Isai and the rest winning tournaments.
 
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To me, friendly rivalries are the best part of tournaments. I have a couple rivals myself. It just completes the excitement for everyone.
 

Fireblaster

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Sorry that you're so new to the scene you don't see what I see. Maybe in another decade or so, when we're still watching M2K and Isai and the rest winning tournaments.
Lol did you just call kero new to the scene?

You have no ****ing clue what you're talking about

I guess I wasn't meaning to imply that Smash 64 specialty players are some kind of dying breed or riding a sinking ship, or even that they should stop playing (especially if they enjoy it). It's just that it's pretty obvious what's happening which is inverse to the sentiment behind asking the community "What's going on?". There's really no reason to ask, it's just the life of a game running it's toll, point being, there's no one (or even a few) things forcing this to happen. It just happens kinda.
I think you're wrong because most 64 players only play 64 and a few play some other smash games as a side thing sometimes. Hell, for most 64 players, it's the only video game they play at all.
 

Bebop86

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Yes, hard to believe but being a person comes first. If everyone acted competitively first, I probably wouldn't go to any tournaments because it wouldn't be as fun.
 

Battlecow

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IDK why 64 doesn't have more players but it's not because it's not hype and it's not because nothing new ever happens

If I had to guess, I'd say that mostly it's because the 64 community is super relaxed and not really into tournaments. Solid number of them just wanna friendly all day. They love the game, but not so much the competition.
 
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I think part of the reason for less cheering is that noise and talk can be distracting. People don't want to weaken another player's performance
 

Aninymouse

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Hey, @ Cobrevolution Cobrevolution

Can I just say how ridiculous it is to paint M2K as a villain? Like, what was the point of that statement? A cheap shot at M2K? It's a game tournament. I think we ought to see people as equals, not call some people bad and some good. Let their battle results speak for themselves.

I basically stopped reading at that point, because that is not journalism, or even-handed editorial material.
 

thedoctr11

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Players being nice to each other doesn't ruin games/is not ruining smash. Rivalries should not be confused with hatred.
 
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Herbert Von Karajan

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There's no randomness. It's gotten to the point where most of the time, you can see who's coming onto camera and know who's winning the match.
If Isai/gerson played pika dittos in a tournament who do you think would win?

If Isai/Jousuke played in a tournament who do think would win?

What about Jousuke/Gerson?

How do you think Boom would do against Peru or Japan?

You have no ****ing Idea what you are talking about
 

Cobrevolution

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regarding "misleading title statements" or those who thought this would cover all the games



really guys?
 

breakthrough

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That Falcon is camping just as hard. Why should M2k have to give up his advantaged position to run into attacks? That seems silly.
Since you obviously don't play 64, it is quite literally impossible for Falcon to approach Kirby safely on that part of the stage as long as M2K keeps utilting and bairing. There wasn't even a large amount of money on the line, M2k was just playing lame and very few people enjoy watching and playing campy assholes.
 
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Sedda

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Hey, @ Cobrevolution Cobrevolution

Can I just say how ridiculous it is to paint M2K as a villain? Like, what was the point of that statement? A cheap shot at M2K? It's a game tournament. I think we ought to see people as equals, not call some people bad and some good. Let their battle results speak for themselves.

I basically stopped reading at that point, because that is not journalism, or even-handed editorial material.
M2K is certainly NOT the villain. He's just an outsider. In fact, when he started entering 64 tournaments regularly last year, he came into the 64 section telling us that he himself thinks he plays lame and would stop entering (or something like that), but we basically begged for him to keep on joining tournaments. He's such an amazing SMASHER overall, and we would love to see him play in every single one of our tournaments.

We love M2K.
 

Annex

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From what I've seen, nobody in 64 seems to care much about tournaments, placing, hype, or rivalries. They all just love to play the game.

To me that's what a video game community should be all about... I mean I guess hype would make the community grow, but I think the people would be joining for the wrong reason.

Like how the smash documentary got a lot of new players into melee for its popularity, hype and rivalries. Are those the people you want joining? More people to beat I guess...
 

ChunkyBeef

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Oops. Messed up the post, and too lazy to fix it since it's an unpopular opinion anyway. Maybe you'll see one day I was right. Oh well. :kirbymelee:
 
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Sedda

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Oops. Messed up the post, and too lazy to fix it since it's an unpopular opinion anyway. Maybe you'll see one day I was right. Oh well. :kirbymelee:
I just don't get why youre on smashboards if you think nothing is going to change. You post a lot on the Smash 4 threads. Do you expect to be the next big thing in Smash 4 or what? Do you think You'll be better than M2K at Smash 4? Why even try if he'll be a top player in 10 years? (Which actually sounds amazing and totally deserving because he's worked for it).
 
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