What's YOUR opinion: Where is Smash headed?

[Patsie]

In order to get a more holistic view of SWF's opinion on where Smash as a franchise is headed, I've thought of a few different situations of what could happen. I'm mainly doing this because of the obvious rift in the Smash community over Brawl, and I want to see what the extent of it is.

You can take a practical stance or a theoretical one, but overall the goal would be to state what you think will happen to the game in reality. This shouldn't be a discussion about whether Brawl sucks or not (although you're more than welcome to bring those points up), but rather whether you see people playing it competitively for the years to come. Basically, I want to know what you think will happen (ie: if you think the game will continue with tournaments despite being terrible, don't say it will die out), not what should happen.

Post your opinion on the matter, or suggest a new situation that you think I overlooked:

BRAWL OPTIMISM v

1) Brawl will far outnumber Melee in terms of players, tournaments, and cash prizes, becoming one of the more popular 'esports' of this console generation until Smash 4.

2) Brawl will have more participation than Melee in terms of tournaments, though it won't gain too much more recognition than Melee from the general consensus of Brawl players.

3) Brawl will have a bit more, a bit less, or about the same activity as Melee, through tournaments or just casual play.

4) Brawl will steadily lose parts of its player base. It will still have a tournament scene, although it will be less massive and less dynamic than Melee. Not enough people revert to Melee to have an active tournament scene.

5) Because of frustrations over the game, Brawl will lose its player base and tournament goers will revert to Melee. Brawl will have a smattering of tournaments now and then, while most of the major tournaments are Melee-based.

6) Brawl will lose parts of its player base due to gameplay considerations halting tournament activity. Not enough people show interest in Melee to have a tournament scene. The game becomes largely casual, despite some hardcore players participating in a few tournaments.

7) Brawl's gameplay stops people from participating in tournaments. No one plays Brawl or Melee tournaments, and the game is largely played on a casual basis only until SSB4.

8) Disinterest in Brawl causes a large majority of people to just stop playing the franchise, and disinterest in the game worldwide causes no activity. SSB4 may or may not come out because of this.

BRAWL PESSIMISM ^


So that's it, I probably didn't give the best description for each level, but I didn't want to get so nitpicky that it got out of hand.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Brawl will die out when the Brawl n00bs stop playing this game (Snake dominates the scene) because they sucked at Melee.

It's only a matter of time.

 

[LOLhahaDEAD]

Brawl's only been out for a little less than 5 months (in Japan), so there's still a ton of time to improve the metagame. If that happens, I really think the competitive scene will flourish greatly. But in the long run, I don't think Brawl will last as long as Melee did. (As in 7 years).

Edit - So I guess that'd be 3 or possibly 4.

 

[KosukeKGA]

<_< THERE'S NOTHING TO IMPROVE ON THIS "METAGAME." YES, YOU ARE WRONG.

We played Brawl with the knowledge we gained with Melee and what do we find? Nothing but CGs and that Snake Mortar slide. Everyone knows it's the **** truth.

All of these silly new "Brawl ATs" have no practical use whatsoever.

 

[iEatPikmin]

I agree with #3, leaning towards #4. Of course, I didn't play Melee competitively (barely knew how to wavedash...)

 

[Iron Thorn]

3 through 5.

 

[LOLhahaDEAD]

All of these silly new "Brawl ATs" have no practical use whatsoever.

Wavedashing wasn't discovered until quite a while after Melee came out (5 months, I think) and wasn't used by a lot of people until several months after that. What I'm really trying to say is that it's possible some useful ATs will be discovered eventually and put to good use a little while after that. I still say there's hope for a higher level of play in Brawl like there was in Melee.

 

[KosukeKGA]

No, it was discovered around 2 weeks after Melee came out.

Brawl has nothing. It took out Dash Dancing and Wavedashing. Two of the most important aspects of tactical strategies and mindgames. Brawl does not have this which is why players resort to campy ******** play which is incredibly boring.

 

[Tristan_win]

Not to be rude Kosuke but you main Ike and he is a very limited which is largely why you think there is nothing to improve on is because of your character. A lot of people are having this problem while characters who have either lots of tricks or multiple option combos are not.

Anyways I think fourth is the most likely what will happen but to tell you the truth if every stop playing Brawl and went straight back to Melee I would drop brawl in a heart beat.

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

4 or 5.

From my experience, its declining.

 

[25%Cotton]

i have to say "definitely #4".


unless there's a HUGE DISCOVERY (which i severely doubt), brawl won't get close enough to melee to make #3 true. but at the same time... i REALLY don't think melee is going to make a comeback.


i could be totally wrong. this is just how i'm feeling it's going to end up.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Not to be rude Kosuke but you main Ike and he is a very limited which is largely why you think there is nothing to improve on is because of your character. A lot of people are having this problem while characters who have either lots of tricks or multiple option combos are not.

Anyways I think fourth is the most likely what will happen but to tell you the truth if every stop playing Brawl and went straight back to Melee I would drop brawl in a heart beat.

LAWL

I don't main Ike. I play Falco, Meta Knight, Dedede, and Snake.

I just love Fire Emblem. Don't make presumptions please.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

i have to say "definitely #4".


unless there's a HUGE DISCOVERY (which i severely doubt), brawl won't get close enough to melee to make #3 true. but at the same time... i REALLY don't think melee is going to make a comeback.


i could be totally wrong. this is just how i'm feeling it's going to end up.

I agree with this. #4 will probably happen unless something as big as wavedashing or something like it is discovered.

 

[victra♥]

3 through 6. There are a lot of people in my Smash community who have given up Smash in general after being disappointed by Brawl. Most people in my community realized that Brawl is for fun and Melee is for serious fun.

 

[FEJunkie]

Either 3 or 4 depending on how many players leave the competitive scene.

I wouldn't say Brawl and has been completely fleshed out, but I doubt there is going to be any groundbreaking AT to be found. That means some people will give up on Brawl due to lack of depth and balance compared to Melee.

That being said Brawl will have a competitive scene, the size of which will vary depending on how many people give up on Brawl.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I think a small little nook between 3 and 4, eventually leading to just plain 4 is the most realistic.

 

[DTKPch]

I'm not exactly on that scale. I'm around #5, except I don't believe in the second half of it.

I don't think the entire Brawl community is just going to die. Tournaments will become a lot less popular, and basically fade away, but there will still be a tiny (very tiny) Brawl community.

I don't think that the pro smashers leaving Brawl will go back to Melee, though. I don't feel as if the Melee community can be revived enough, which is quite sad, actually.

What I would prefer is for both Brawl and Melee to prosper simultaneously. If people could consider Brawl more of a separate game than a sequel, then both might be able to get significant recognition. Of course, that's **** near impossible the way things are going. I wish both Brawl and Melee had places in significant tournaments (like MLG).

 

[Speedwobbles223]

this one

4) Brawl will steadily lose parts of its player base. It will still have a tournament scene, although it will be less massive and less dynamic than Melee. Not enough people revert to Melee to have an active tournament scene.

 

[Wrath`]

I am not trying to be a pessimist, I dont care what game we go to(i perfer brawl) but i think 8 will happen, i think brawl will die out and melee wont get enough support to keep going

 

[Sonic527]

Brawl will go down hill no matter what and I don't think it will be as populer as melee. If they make a new smash bros however people may play Brawl more in order to get ready for the next one which hopefully there is and there should.

 

[Patsie]

Sounds like the consensus, so far, is that Brawl won't do as well as Melee competitively.

Anyway, just wanted to add a few thoughts-

Although a massive game-breaking AT probably won't be discovered anymore in Brawl, the argument that ATs won't be discovered anymore has been around since literally 3 days after Brawl was released in Japan. It's basically been rehashed after every AT was discovered, like Snake's mortar slide or Falco's chaingrab. New ATs will be discovered, although they will probably become more situational and less useful as time goes on. ATs were discovered in Melee years after release, though they were no where near as game-defining as wavedashing.

That said, no ATs will be discovered that will make the game much different from its nature. Even a wavedash in this game wouldn't make the speed anywhere close to Melee. So, in my opinion, if you're waiting around for an AT that will make the game like Melee, I would just revert games. Brawl has completely different mechanics; it's never going to be like Melee.

My opinion on my OP is mixed. I would say that the Brawl scene won't die out, it will probably have tournaments until SSB4. I just don't think it will be on the same level as Melee, because I agree with the point that people who picked up Brawl first are less adept at competitive gaming. I think, in a large part, the community is relying on competitive Melee players to organize tourneys, and those players have been increasingly resenting Brawl (or, at least, it seems to me). Maybe, as the game matures, new TOs will pop up and host tourneys. But, I think the most important thing is, it's too early to tell now. Many people play Brawl and love it, many play Brawl but would rather play Melee, many people have left Brawl for good. I think what's most important now is not seeing how the game changes, but how the community reacts to the new game over time.

I don't think there will ever be a large Melee scene outside of big underground Smashfests every once and a while. I think the era where Melee weeklies/biweeklies occurred in droves every weekend has ended. Some people will go back to the game, but not as much as Brawl. Also, importantly, no big sponsors are going to favor Melee over Brawl; companies like MLG, I think, would care more about Brawl being newer than people wanting Melee. Brawl, so far, has a ton of tournaments, but it's too early to tell whether the community will stick with them. So, personally, I highly doubt Brawl will sink too far under Melee, especially because a lot of money is in Brawl tournaments now (and I think MLG notices it's popularity on GB and other sponsors notice it too). If the trend continues where people dislike the game more and more, it won't reach the status of what Melee had. But, I think the most important thing is seeing whether the complaining on the forums starts having empirical impacts on tournament results/attendance, and until that time, I think Brawl will continue to get lots of tournament participation.

 

[Stiputation]

Personally, I believe Brawl will have SOME competitive scene regardless of how many people leave to go play Melee. In a competitive sense that is.
Just look at me, I utterly despise those ATs that Melee had. I found it somewhat pointless, rediculous and stupid. Those who have the same view as me (which may not be very many) will probably stick with Brawl because of this.

Although Melee does have a nice competitive scene going because of its ATs or whatever. Those who stick with Brawl want a nice good match without all the wavedashing and dash dancing. Not to mention, some people would rather stick with Brawl in general. Its newer and has better graphics. THAT is the determining factor for some.

But overall, I do believe Brawl will have a much shorter lifespan then Melee did. I'm not sure why, but I just don't think it'll last as long. I'm already ready for SSB4.

 

[mariofanpm12]

I think that Brawl will linger around, bu perhaps for about 2 or 3 years...
though melee may not make a huge comeback
brawl definetely lacks depth, though
In the long run I'll guess that less people will play Smash overall

 

[mariofanpm12]

So... what might happen if SSB4 comes out, say, 5 years from now?
What I wander is what will happen if it takes out even more ATs, slows down even more, etc. Will about 80% of Smashers just quit the franchise completely?

Or if it gets more like a Melee 2.0, with more depth, faster gameplay than even Melee, etc. What will all the Brawl-lovers do?

But finally, what if SSB4 is a mix of Brawl and Melee? They speed it up, but not as fast as Melee; they remove tripping and return soem ATs, but not all... how would the community react?

 

[BentoBox]

Will most people tag along Nintendo's side for the next 5 years? The Wii pretty much settled it for me.

#4-6. I don't believe in SSB4.

 

[acv]

its just that brawl proved who was good at melee and who is good in smash,its obvious that if you were just good in melee and you are bad in brawl you will like melee more.but then there are the people that are good in both games,they have managed to adapt you will notice that the recognizable people from melee are still good in brawl.

 

[BentoBox]

Irrelevant really.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Well I like Brawl a lot, I find it funner than Melee actually as far as presentation goes, but it's admittedly hard for a game to be too successful in some sort of competitive scene when you got characters randomly tripping and thanks to the lack of hitstun...you got people who can recover instantly from anything so there's not as much reward for the people playing it a little harder than others.

That said though, it'll still have a competitive scene. It'll be one that'll unfortunately have certain Melee purists and fighting game elitists combined ragging on it but nonetheless. Can't say if it'll have the pretty impressive longevity of Melee really but aside from a select few fighters (or whatever you want to call it) most games dwindle down to varying degrees of smaller sects over time anyways. I guess it could also depend on if and when an SSB4 comes out, and how that theoretically is.

 

[Corigames]

1. I don't know where Brawl can go. I think it is going to continue to snowball in popularity, while not being able to hold up with a proportional amount of AT's to go with the age of the game

2. I HOPE that the game falls on its face and everyone goes back to Melee.

3. I know this thread is headed towards a Melee vs Brawl debate.

 

[PCHU]

You know, we won't need threads like these soon because as we look and see, we will find our answer.
Just sit down and watch for a while.
It's really easy to find out who's out there.
Personally, I have found a heavy decrease in n00bs.
I like that, because now I can actually have a decent fight.
However, we also see very sucky players that main all the popular characters.
I hate that.
I think that at this rate, Brawl will be good players only.
I mean, almost all of my battles are good ones these days.
I'm pretty sure n00bs will quit being n00bs and sucky people will stop sucking soon.
Just wait about 5 months.

 

[Wrath`]

1. I don't know where Brawl can go. I think it is going to continue to snowball in popularity, while not being able to hold up with a proportional amount of AT's to go with the age of the game

2. I HOPE that the game falls on its face and everyone goes back to ssb64.

3. I know this thread is headed towards a Melee vs Brawl debate.

small edidt for fun.


well it is up to the community to make a diffrence, so it is in our hands where it goes.

we need to get everyone on the boards to email nintendo and complain about there causalness, if they have 20,000 emails on the same thing, I think they will notice a part of gaming they are neglecting.

 

[SmashBro99]

Brawl's fine. The only thing I don't like is tripping.

I like how people actually say "OMG THEY TOOK OUT WAVEDASHING NOW I HAS TO MOVE BY WALKING OR RUNNING!!! ;-;!!!"

I also like how almost everyone who likes Melee over Brawl only do because they can't win anymore, and just about any character has a chance to beat any character. (Haha Marth isn't broken anymore!)

If Brawl does die out, it's only because people who wanted Melee 2.0 stopped playing because they couldn't win anymore.

 

[Wrath`]

Brawl's fine. The only thing I don't like is tripping.

I like how people actually say "OMG THEY TOOK OUT WAVEDASHING NOW I HAS TO MOVE BY WALKING OR RUNNING!!! ;-;!!!"

I also like how almost everyone who likes Melee over Brawl only do because they can't win anymore, and just about any character has a chance to beat any character. (Haha Marth isn't broken anymore!)

If Brawl does die out, it's only because people who wanted Melee 2.0 stopped playing because they couldn't win anymore.

this exactly how I used to think.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Wavedashing wasn't discovered until quite a while after Melee came out (5 months, I think) and wasn't used by a lot of people until several months after that. What I'm really trying to say is that it's possible some useful ATs will be discovered eventually and put to good use a little while after that. I still say there's hope for a higher level of play in Brawl like there was in Melee.

Wavedashing was actually discovered about 2005....

Anyone who thinks Brawl's metagame won't evolve is just trying to kid themselves.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Brawl's fine. The only thing I don't like is tripping.

I like how people actually say "OMG THEY TOOK OUT WAVEDASHING NOW I HAS TO MOVE BY WALKING OR RUNNING!!! ;-;!!!"

I also like how almost everyone who likes Melee over Brawl only do because they can't win anymore, and just about any character has a chance to beat any character. (Haha Marth isn't broken anymore!)

If Brawl does die out, it's only because people who wanted Melee 2.0 stopped playing because they couldn't win anymore.

You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

I agree with Kosuske for the most part, and I SUCK at Melee. I'm leagues better in Brawl, but it's just not nearly as fun and overall competitive as Melee was, regardless if it didn't have the visual beauty or the extras or the extra characters. There's just so much more Melee has to offer competitively than Brawl in many areas it's not even funny.


Granted I wouldn't mind if both scenes co-existed, but we'd need an even more massive boost of players joining the scene than in even recent years. I honestly don't care which way the community goes, I just don't want competitive smash to die.

 

[BentoBox]

You know, we won't need threads like these soon because as we look and see, we will find our answer.
Just sit down and watch for a while.
It's really easy to find out who's out there.
Personally, I have found a heavy decrease in n00bs.
I like that, because now I can actually have a decent fight.
However, we also see very sucky players that main all the popular characters.
I hate that.
I think that at this rate, Brawl will be good players only.
I mean, almost all of my battles are good ones these days.
I'm pretty sure n00bs will quit being n00bs and sucky people will stop sucking soon.
Just wait about 5 months.

That's because it isn't nearly as demanding to be a decent player in Brawl.

@SmashBro99: Do you know many people who owned it up in the Melee scene and currently suck in Brawl? Thought so. Stop talking.

 

[LOLhahaDEAD]

Wavedashing was actually discovered about 2005....

Anyone who thinks Brawl's metagame won't evolve is just trying to kid themselves.

Well regardless of the exact date, the point I'm trying to make is that it was found quite a while after Melee came out.

 

[Wrath`]

I honestly don't care which way the community goes, I just don't want competitive smash to die.

Thats the best thing said so far, we need to figure a way where both can co exist tho, I think that is the way to go.

 

[Iron Thorn]

You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

I agree with Kosuske for the most part, and I SUCK at Melee. I'm leagues better in Brawl, but it's just not nearly as fun and overall competitive as Melee was, regardless if it didn't have the visual beauty or the extras or the extra characters. There's just so much more Melee has to offer competitively than Brawl in many areas it's not even funny.


Granted I wouldn't mind if both scenes co-existed, but we'd need an even more massive boost of players joining the scene than in even recent years. I honestly don't care which way the community goes, I just don't want competitive smash to die.

B-but the visual beauty and extras and extra characters MAKE Brawl for me...then again, I am a) a pretty casual player and b) relieved as heck to not only be playing Zelda/Sheik for eternity.

I too am for Melee/Brawl coexistence and/or thriving scenes for both. Satisfies us pro-Brawlers, and keeps the pro-Melee folks happy.

 

[Bowser King]

Brawl is heading downward not rapidly but slowly. It might make a comback (which I sorta hope). Though even the cauals in my area (8-10 who own brawl and melee) stopped playing smash and moved on. Not because they were tired of smash or it wasnt competittive enough but because it was to similar to melee. There is barely anything new and the stuff that is wasnt done as expected (satge builder, wifi ect.)