What type of DLC would you want?

[Saito]

You're assuming that all DLC is something that already exists, though.

Take a look at Fire Emblem Awakening. That game has a ton of DLC. All of it was freshly developed as DLC. Over half of the DLC options in there were in direct request to fan feedback.

In the Future Past, we got expansions on the parent/children relationship that fleshed out the otherwise rather flimsy father relationships (due to the way children were handled in the game). We got the Scramble Pack, which is a ton of additional support conversations that increased the character development. We got the Challenge Pack, specifically to help those who wished for more variety and difficulty in maps. And we got Apotheosis for those who wanted a challenge for their Limit Broken units.

These were all developed as responses to fan feedback they received. It allowed them to take a great game, and make it better. There is nothing wrong with this, even from a consumer side.

If you're paying for an incomplete experience, if content is held back, you're right, that's horrible. But if content is developed further, that's only a good thing.


Or I guess you can just force them to release another full price game any time they decide they want to add a new character.

For example, if Nintendo said that Ridley would be in as character DLC but he was completely free, you have effectively gotten almost everyone that wanted ridley in smash to purchase the game. They don't have to think about whether or not it's fair to them because the company said "We know you guys want and love him, so have him for free!"

This statement already stands to serve as the point that I don't think all the DLC already exists.

I'm assuming they made everything from scratch in regards to DLC. The ice climbers sentiment is because one of my friends is worried about whether or not the ice climbers will be making it back into this iteration of smash brothers.

I don't deny the existence of good DLC either. I may not personally like DLC but I do think that DLC can be done right.
I know because I have the future past as well. A side story, one that expands on the backstory of the game but doesn't actually affect the main story. A great and welcomed addition. As a side quest, it would of been much better but as DLC it serves almost as well.

I didn't buy the other DLC, but fun additions for the people who wanted them. Not sure I liked the price to character development ratio, but the Apotheosis was a pure challenge for players and that's fine.

 

[Skyblade12]

This statement already stands to serve as the point that I don't think all the DLC already exists.

I'm assuming they made everything from scratch in regards to DLC. The ice climbers sentiment is because one of my friends is worried about whether or not the ice climbers will be making it back into this iteration of smash brothers.

I don't deny the existence of good DLC either. I may not personally like DLC but I do think that DLC can be done right.
I know because I have the future past as well. A side story, one that expands on the backstory of the game but doesn't actually affect the main story. A great and welcomed addition. As a side quest, it would of been much better but as DLC it serves almost as well.

I didn't buy the other DLC, but fun additions for the people who wanted them. Not sure I liked the price to character development ratio, but the Apotheosis was a pure challenge for players and that's fine.

So you're saying DLC is only viable if it's free?

I hate to break it to you, but that doesn't work. Sure, it's great for consumers, especially short-term. Who doesn't like free stuff? But it is a permanent negative for the company.

Content takes time and money to make. Look at your Ridley DLC. They need guys to build movesets, balance the character, create the skin and designs. That's just at a basic level. That's a lot of work, that a lot of people have to be paid for.

So let's say we make Ridley free. They have to recoup the loss somewhere. So they releases an alt skins DLC that costs, and has a boosted cost because it's paying for itself (relatively low cost) and Ridley as well.

This works, but is extremely tricky, because it can only succeed as long as enough people by the alt skin to actually pay for both DLCs, and allow Nintendo to make a profit.

If not, it's simply a business model that can't continue. I suppose Nintendo could continue to pump out free content, but then they'd shut down eventually and we'd be left with no new games. Or they could stop making the content, and no one would get Ridley, or alternate skins.


People make this content for a living, they need to be paid for it.

 

[Saito]

So you're saying DLC is only viable if it's free?

I don't deny the existence of good DLC either. I may not personally like DLC but I do think that DLC can be done right.

Let me clarify that when I refer to good DLC, I mean good paid DLC.

Free DLC is something that no one should have any qualms with which is why I refer to it as Free DLC and not just DLC in general.

I hate to break it to you, but that doesn't work. Sure, it's great for consumers, especially short-term. Who doesn't like free stuff? But it is a permanent negative for the company.

Content takes time and money to make.

People make this content for a living, they need to be paid for it.

It's not like they would be offering free DLC for everything from this point onwards. I'm simply saying that they shouldn't do paid character DLC or paid stage DLC for Super smash brothers. Modes that are not single player also should be excluded from being paid DLC.

These are all things that split up the players and should not be done.

DLC is going to happen, regardless of what I want, but I'm talking about the types of paid DLC that I think won't be favorable to the greatest amount of people.

 

[SS-bros14]

I just think that if character DLC comes, it shouldn't be payable. If things like stages, music, etc. come for DLC it should be playable.

 

[Octillus]

This statement already stands to serve as the point that I don't think all the DLC already exists.

I'm assuming they made everything from scratch in regards to DLC. The ice climbers sentiment is because one of my friends is worried about whether or not the ice climbers will be making it back into this iteration of smash brothers.

DLC works especially well in regards to the Ice Climbers simply because Sakurai has stated they had a hard time programming them for the 3DS - now mind you this was prior to Rosalina's appearance who operates on similar principles, but this is a great way of releasing two true complimentary versions of the game, and then building up the Wii U title, simply because it can handle more content.

The symmetry between 3DS and Wii U is preserved, but now the Wii U can be stuffed to the gills with previous stages, hell, even 3DS stages eventually (my hope), additional characters, and possibly even new modes.

I would like to see the final content before we cross that bridge, as I would be just as frustrated if they withheld more than had been in previous titles (SSE being an exception, obviously) but given the track record, I don't see why there can't be a ton of extra content in Sm4sh

 

[Skyblade12]

Let me clarify that when I refer to good DLC, I mean good paid DLC.

Free DLC is something that no one should have any qualms with which is why I refer to it as Free DLC and not just DLC in general.



It's not like they would be offering free DLC for everything from this point onwards. I'm simply saying that they shouldn't do paid character DLC or paid stage DLC for Super smash brothers. Modes that are not single player also should be excluded from being paid DLC.

These are all things that split up the players and should not be done.

DLC is going to happen, regardless of what I want, but I'm talking about the types of paid DLC that I think won't be favorable to the greatest amount of people.

Ok, so all the DLC like characters and stages, the one which take the most resources (read: money) to make, and the ones which people are more likely to actually buy, should be free.

And ones like alternate costumes and such, which only involve the art team and are much easier to make, but which people feel no obligation to buy, should be the paid DLC?

Again, how is this a working business model?


It might split up the player base. I get this argument with every fighting game ever. "Oh, but then you can't play with someone without the DLC using that character". Which is not necessarily true, BTW. But, again, the only other option is to shove out a new version of the game with every new character release, as every other fighting game does instead.

It's not hard to adapt the programming to lock out DLC characters when playing without DLC, or to patch in the ability to put the characters in, without making them playable.

 

[Saito]

Ok, so all the DLC like characters and stages, the one which take the most resources (read: money) to make, and the ones which people are more likely to actually buy, should be free.

And ones like alternate costumes and such, which only involve the art team and are much easier to make, but which people feel no obligation to buy, should be the paid DLC?

Again, how is this a working business model?

Minimal efforts work out to pay for the character.

Let's try a different route.

They make those things that take minimal costs, such as music, or a costume, and make enough surplus profit to fund a character.

They use those funds to create a character that they release for free. This does not make them any more profit, but it allows them to show appreciation for their customers and bring them a character they like.

This character's existence might also convince other people to purchase the game as well, which in the end could also result in more profit.

Good business practices like these might even convince people who are on the fence about purchasing a Nintendo based system into buying one and supporting them.

Players who appreciate the free content may feel more inclined to purchase the low costing, minimal effort made stuff in order to further support nintendo.

Completely overall, they never split up their players, a lot more people are enticed to purchase the game, Nintendo furthers its relationships with its players and even potentially makes more profits from the additional games it may sell because of this.

This of course is a much more difficult way to go about things than just making the character and charging for it, but who knows which one might be reacted to more favorably?

But, again, the only other option is to shove out a new version of the game with every new character release, as every other fighting game does instead.

Smash wouldn't do that.
It's more like a once a gaming generation type of game.

It's not hard to adapt the programming to lock out DLC characters when playing without DLC, or to patch in the ability to put the characters in, without making them playable.

I already talked about this.

If you make it accessible online to those players then they start to wonder why they just can't use them. They would definitely have the data for them since they can play as them. It comes across as sketchy to a lot of people.

Not impossible, but it's bad business to some people.

 

[Bumbalobob]

I think it is possible that DLC may be tied with Amiibo's. That way it provides the perception of free DLC as you are getting the figure and the content. DLC Amiibo's could cost a little bit more too, so a Marion one might cost $10, where as a Ridley w/ DLC might cost $15. Then when the Amiibo is placed on the pad it unlocks content from the Nintendo shop.

I also wonder about DLC in relation to assist trophies and pokeballs, are characters that are already in the game going to be skipped over as DLC? Afterall playing as Takamaru and getting his assist trophy would be strange.

 

[Skyblade12]

Minimal efforts work out to pay for the character.

Let's try a different route.

They make those things that take minimal costs, such as music, or a costume, and make enough surplus profit to fund a character.

They use those funds to create a character that they release for free. This does not make them any more profit, but it allows them to show appreciation for their customers and bring them a character they like.

This character's existence might also convince other people to purchase the game as well, which in the end could also result in more profit.

Good business practices like these might even convince people who are on the fence about purchasing a Nintendo based system into buying one and supporting them.

Players who appreciate the free content may feel more inclined to purchase the low costing, minimal effort made stuff in order to further support nintendo.

Completely overall, they never split up their players, a lot more people are enticed to purchase the game, Nintendo furthers its relationships with its players and even potentially makes more profits from the additional games it may sell because of this.

This of course is a much more difficult way to go about things than just making the character and charging for it, but who knows which one might be reacted to more favorably?



Smash wouldn't do that.
It's more like a once a gaming generation type of game.


I already talked about this.


Not impossible, but it's bad business to some people.

Agreed, and that would be an awesome way to do it. I would also fully support that business model and probably get all the customizability DLCs along with it (ok, I'd probably get all those anyway).

But I don't think charging for significant cost DLC is a bad idea, especially if a test of the free character addition doesn't work out.

 

[DevaAshera]

A. True.
B. What's the problem of waiting? We waited 6 years for this smash. We can just wait again.
C. True.
Also, since we waited a long time for a new smash to come after brawl, why didn't brawl have DLC?

Simple really, my belief is essentially why put off something you can do now instead of just doing it now. If its something that can be done fairly cheaply, released fairly cheaply, and offers a good value, there's no reason to wait, especially if there's no guarantee that the character they want to put in now they'll still want to put in for the next game.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl didn't have DLC for a simple reason, which Sakurai also stated. The Wii was not made to deal with DLC unless it was On-Disc already or small Download titles, thats why you didn't see any Wii Games having any sort of DLC or the like. This was due to using relatively small Flash Memory rather then a Hard Drive like the PS3 and Xbox 360. The Wii U and 3DS, on the other hand, have been shown to be able to handle DLC to the extent of Characters & Stages.

 

[Princess Toady]

Characters, stages, and costumes for me.

Or maybe an extension of the stage builder if it comes back.

 

[SS-bros14]

Simple really, my belief is essentially why put off something you can do now instead of just doing it now. If its something that can be done fairly cheaply, released fairly cheaply, and offers a good value, there's no reason to wait, especially if there's no guarantee that the character they want to put in now they'll still want to put in for the next game.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl didn't have DLC for a simple reason, which Sakurai also stated. The Wii was not made to deal with DLC unless it was On-Disc already or small Download titles, thats why you didn't see any Wii Games having any sort of DLC or the like. This was due to using relatively small Flash Memory rather then a Hard Drive like the PS3 and Xbox 360. The Wii U and 3DS, on the other hand, have been shown to be able to handle DLC to the extent of Characters & Stages.

Either way, would it kill us to wait? Instead of adding more characters, just wait 'till next smash. Characters like Roy are permanently cut because of being clones, so their is no reason to add them for DLC.

 

[Saito]

Either way, would it kill us to wait? Instead of adding more characters, just wait 'till next smash. Characters like Roy are permanently cut because of being clones, so their is no reason to add them for DLC.

Lucina exists to counter that statement.

The reason they probably haven't come back is because they aren't nearly as relevant anymore.

 

[DevaAshera]

Either way, would it kill us to wait? Instead of adding more characters, just wait 'till next smash. Characters like Roy are permanently cut because of being clones, so their is no reason to add them for DLC.

No, but it could keep the character from appearing or re-appearing in Super Smash Bros. to begin with since, like Saito stated, some characters become less relevant. For instance, if Ghirahim was considered for Super Smash Bros. and wasn't finished due to time, he wouldn't be added into the next Smash Bros. because he would no longer be a relevant character.

There is a reason, a very simple one at that. People like Roy. This is why he was re-added into Brawl by the Project M team and why people still want to see him return in Smash Bros. 4 (and he also almost made it back, being one of the 6 characters in Brawl's code). Whatever character gets cut or left unfinished has a fan, I can guarantee you that, and I'm sure they would like to see that character get implemented sooner rather then later. It doesn't have to just be Roy either, characters like Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake are all non-clones that aren't likely to make the initial roster.

Say you had a favorite character that you really wanted to see included in Super Smash Bros. 4 only to discover that they were either cut, left unfinished, or considered by not done due to time? Would you not want to see that character join the cast sooner rather then wait for the next game and wonder if they'll actually make it in or not? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather wait to see a character you really want?

I also just have to say, I don't care about the "I have no money" argument since if you were able to get the money for Smash 4, chances are you could get the money for DLC, the "it will disrupt balancing" argument, since no other fighting game with DLC has yet to have that problem, and the "unfair" argument is just ridiculous since its more whiny then anything.

By denying DLC, I only see someone for whatever reason saying no to having more and yes to having less and it simply boggles my mind why anyone would want less.

 

[Movingtarget99]

As cool as DLC characters would be, it's unreasonable to expect free characters for download. Paid? Maybe, but it would throw off balances for people who might not have all of the DLC. Same with stages. Still, I'm sure I'm among the ranks of many who would gladly pour money into their hands for good DLC.

 

[dezeray112]

Personally if they do decide to use the DLC route for the characters, then I would like characters which did not make it into the final roster cut (needed further development time) along with some characters from newer Nintendo franchises like Splatton, Codename: STEAM etc.

As for paid and free DLC, I don't exactly mind either option. But for what I can say is required to be free DLC has to be patching and balancing at this current time.

I do recall that Fire Emblem Awakening had one DLC chapter free (Champions of Yore 1) for a limited time (I think it was for two weeks.) Just wondering whether this would be an option Sakurai and his team could explore?

 

[Second Power]

DLC would be fantastic. Stages would be at the top of my list, but characters would be cool as well.

Edit: More custom moves would be great as well!

 

[SS-bros14]

No, but it could keep the character from appearing or re-appearing in Super Smash Bros. to begin with since, like Saito stated, some characters become less relevant. For instance, if Ghirahim was considered for Super Smash Bros. and wasn't finished due to time, he wouldn't be added into the next Smash Bros. because he would no longer be a relevant character.

There is a reason, a very simple one at that. People like Roy. This is why he was re-added into Brawl by the Project M team and why people still want to see him return in Smash Bros. 4 (and he also almost made it back, being one of the 6 characters in Brawl's code). Whatever character gets cut or left unfinished has a fan, I can guarantee you that, and I'm sure they would like to see that character get implemented sooner rather then later. It doesn't have to just be Roy either, characters like Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake are all non-clones that aren't likely to make the initial roster.

Say you had a favorite character that you really wanted to see included in Super Smash Bros. 4 only to discover that they were either cut, left unfinished, or considered by not done due to time? Would you not want to see that character join the cast sooner rather then wait for the next game and wonder if they'll actually make it in or not? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather wait to see a character you really want?

I also just have to say, I don't care about the "I have no money" argument since if you were able to get the money for Smash 4, chances are you could get the money for DLC, the "it will disrupt balancing" argument, since no other fighting game with DLC has yet to have that problem, and the "unfair" argument is just ridiculous since its more whiny then anything.

By denying DLC, I only see someone for whatever reason saying no to having more and yes to having less and it simply boggles my mind why anyone would want less.

If a favorite character of mine got cut, I wouldn't really care. I could just wait next smash. I really don't see the problem of waiting another 6 years instead of just putting in DLC characters. Especially if you had to pay for them. If they couldn't add them in because of time constraints, then why would they add them but you had to pay?

 

[arcticfox8]

If a favorite character of mine got cut, I wouldn't really care. I could just wait next smash. I really don't see the problem of waiting another 6 years instead of just putting in DLC characters. Especially if you had to pay for them. If they couldn't add them in because of time constraints, then why would they add them but you had to pay?

What if I die before those 6 years are up
I could have been playing those guys for who knows how many years
But now I can't because I'm DEAD

 

[SS-bros14]

What if I die before those 6 years are up
I could have been playing those guys for who knows how many years
But I can't because I'm DEAD

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[Saito]

If a favorite character of mine got cut, I wouldn't really care. I could just wait next smash. I really don't see the problem of waiting another 6 years instead of just putting in DLC characters. Especially if you had to pay for them. If they couldn't add them in because of time constraints, then why would they add them but you had to pay?

Money is a factor. Money drives the world, so people getting paid can be a good way to fund making a new character.

I feel like Nintendo is feeding more off of smasher's passion than their wallets though. I really feel like if they were to do character DLC, it would end up being free.

Edit : I misread that statement.

If they couldn't add them because of time constraints and they actually planned to add them, I have no doubts that they would be released as free content.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

Not characters.

Character DLC can be like for characters who cut because of time constraints and for if they made a set of new characters to add for DLC like SSB4 3DS/Wii U version 1.1 or 2.0 or something.

 

[Deleted member]

Character DLC can be like for characters who cut because of time constraints and for if they made a set of new characters to add for DLC like SSB4 3DS/Wii U version 1.1 or 2.0 or something.

I am highly opposed to paid character DLC; I don't care which characters are offered. I don't want to have to pay to learn matchups.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

I am highly opposed to paid character DLC; I don't care which characters are offered. I don't want to have to pay to learn matchups.

It wouldn't have to be pay required. Mario Kart 7 had stage DLC that was free.

 

[Morbi]

Characters and only characters. Hopefully "anything can change" and we get our favorite blue-haired lord.

 

[Deleted member]

It wouldn't have to be pay required. Mario Kart 7 had stage DLC that was free.

Uh no. No it didn't. Mario Kart 7 has no DLC except for a patch. Mario Kart 8 has a free kart as DLC. The issue is that there is no precedent for Smash DLC. If Smash 4 is to have DLC, then it would be the first game in the series to have DLC. We have no idea what to expect. Traditionally though, if characters are available as DLC in a fighting game, then they will cost money. Think about how long and how many resources a character takes to develop. Those people who work on the character need to be paid somehow. I find it highly unlikely that character DLC would be free, and as such, I an opposed to character DLC. Paying to learn matchups is stupid.

I'd be fine with characters if they were free, though.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

Uh no. No it didn't. Mario Kart 7 has no DLC except for a patch. Mario Kart 8 has a free kart as DLC. The issue is that there is no precedent for Smash DLC. If Smash 4 is to have DLC, then it would be the first game in the series to have DLC. We have no idea what to expect. Traditionally though, if characters are available as DLC in a fighting game, then they will cost money. Think about how long and how many resources a character takes to develop. Those people who work on the character need to be paid somehow. I find it highly unlikely that character DLC would be free, and as such, I an opposed to character DLC. Paying to learn matchups is stupid.

I'd be fine with characters if they were free, though.

It did have DLC. It added extra courses to the game.

 

[Deleted member]

It did have DLC. It added extra courses to the game.

No it didn't. You're getting confused with Mario Golf: World Tour. Which featured paid DLC in the form of characters and courses.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

No it didn't. You're getting confused with Mario Golf: World Tour. Which featured paid DLC in the form of characters and courses.

Yeah they both did. Mario kart 7 version 1.1 which added extra circuits.

 

[SS-bros14]

Yeah they both did. Mario kart 7 version 1.1 which added extra circuits.

Err, source?
Sorry, but I've just never heard or seen it.

 

[Deleted member]

Err, source?
Sorry, but I've just never heard or seen it.

Because it doesn't exist.

Mario Kart 7 version 1.1 removed abusive shortcut glitches and added more options for online.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

Err, source?
Sorry, but I've just never heard or seen it.

Mario golf did have free AND paid DLC. Source: eshop

Because it doesn't exist.

Mario Kart 7 version 1.1 removed abusive shortcut glitches and added more options for online.

Adding options meaning DLC.

 

[SS-bros14]

Mario golf did have free AND paid DLC. Source: eshop

Adding options meaning DLC.

Not Mario Golf, Mario Kart 7.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

Not Mario Golf, Mario Kart 7.

Pokemon did. Not talking about those patches I mean like that special torchic. And sonic lost worlds had DLC with that special yoshi stage.

 

[Deleted member]

Adding options meaning DLC.

We're talking about characters here. Characters are not free for Mario Golf, are not available as DLC for Mario Kart 7, and are not free for any fighting game I know of. The only exception I know of being Skullgirls, which offer the characters for free for 3 months after the character's release, and become paid after that.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

We're talking about characters here. Characters are not free for Mario Golf, are not available as DLC for Mario Kart 7, and are not free for any fighting game I know of. The only exception I know of being Skullgirls, which offer the characters for free for 3 months after the character's release, and become paid after that.

Pokemon has DLC for characters meaning pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

Pokemon has DLC for characters meaning pokemon.

Pokemon is different. The Pokemon are PROGRAMMED into the game to begin with. DLC characters for most fighters are add-ons that do not have any content on the disc, and if they do, then they should come with the game, and be playable from the start, unless they are free.

 

[Gamecube Kid]

I hope if they do have paid DLC I hope it's loaded on the cartradge meaning how save data would work on a DS/3DS game because even though there is something like an NNID it would just be more awsome.

 

[SuperWiiFitTrainer64]

In addition, doing a DLC Expansion allows them to create a Pseudo-Sequel which wouldn't require them to remake all the previous characters but still add new content, since they get to re-use all of the original character models, stages, music, etc. and can release it for a smaller price essentially since anyone who bought the original version could just pay around, say, $15 for the Expansion and not make their original game essentially worthless.

I adore this idea. An expansion pack(s) is the perfect way to add life to the game. There could be a Throwback pack including the most popular N64,Melee and Brawl stages not already in the game, and not included characters (Like Roy and Pichu). For the Wii U version of the game, there could even be a 3DS Stage pack. Or even a costume pack for the Mario characters that has all of each character's powerup suits. (Cat Mario, Ice Luigi, Fire Peach) The possibilities are endless.

 

[Skyblade12]

I adore this idea. An expansion pack(s) is the perfect way to add life to the game. There could be a Throwback pack including the most popular N64,Melee and Brawl stages not already in the game, and not included characters (Like Roy and Pichu). For the Wii U version of the game, there could even be a 3DS Stage pack. Or even a costume pack for the Mario characters that has all of each character's powerup suits. (Cat Mario, Ice Luigi, Fire Peach) The possibilities are endless.

Agreed. There are a ton of opportunities for really great DLC in there. They don't have to be small DLC packs, a full expansion would work great, and be easier.

Eternal Smash. It would be awesome.