what the **** do i do

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

so i started playing snake and i can't beat mk he just stays on the ground and if i try to tilt he blocks it then grabs me then f-throw to tornado or another grab. if i drop or hold a grandee he grabs me and it moves me to far for the grandee to even hit him. this keeps happening till i lose so what the **** do i do about it. Snake seems to slow to do anything and just keeps getting punished.

p.s. don't say go look at the match-up thread i read it it does not help at all since he does not approach in the air unless i jump.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

so i started playing snake and i can't beat mk he just stays on the ground and if i try to tilt he blocks it then grabs me then f-throw to tornado or another grab. if i drop or hold a grandee he grabs me and it moves me to far for the grandee to even hit him. this keeps happening till i lose so what the **** do i do about it. Snake seems to slow to do anything and just keeps getting punished.

p.s. don't say go look at the match-up thread i read it it does not help at all since he does not approach in the air unless i jump.

Um... maybe pick up Pika?.... that's just my thoughts...

 

[gallax]

ur solution. camp. throw nades around him and make them explode. make sure the nades hit him so that if he doesnt shield or spotdodge the damge from the nade without the explosion will get him. keep doing that and force an approach.

a bit of advice. if you ftilt and he shields, do not use the second hit of your ftilt. stop. fr there you can go again or jab>ftilt or get away. ur choice.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

If you can't beat MK on the ground, you're not camping hard enough.

Nades. Nades. Nades.

However, MK in the air is another story, as he ***** you in the air. but MK on the ground is relatively easy, if you do it right.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok first off about pikachu let me just say NEVER

thanks gallax i do need to start only doing the first part if its shielded (this is were mussel memory hurts me.

so if i do camp with the nades do i just throw them when i pull them out or do i wait till they are about to explode to trow them. should i shield drop them before i throw it? should i try to strip them on him?. more detail on how to use them against mk would be appreciated. thanks so far for the thoughts

 

[gallax]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241238

these are vids of ally and m2k at Genesis. great vids to watch if you want to learn how to use nades. it shows everything from holding a nade grabbing while holding one, cooking them, using them for protection, etc. one thing that it doesnt really show is stripping. m2k is too smart with nades to be fool by it.

using nades against mk is a very tedious thing that depends on the stage. on FD (in the match 1.4 in the above vids is a good example of FD nade usage) there arent any plats so all the nades are either thrown in mk's area or with snake. mk wont get in close if there is an imminent exlposion. but on stages like BF, you can toss nades on plats which can cover you from tornados and some aerial attacks.

a fav nade thing i do is pull a nade>hold back on control stick and let go of nade. from there pull aother nade and toss it at the opponent. from there i mortar slide over the nade which picks it up and then either toss it or shield while the nade explodes. its a good pressure tactic.

another kewl nade trick is pull a nade and then when you think the mk is going to going to try and grab ou when you shield to drop the nade shield then run back and pivot grab. instead of rolling after dropping the nade pivot grab.

 

[etecoon]

If you can't beat MK on the ground, you're not camping hard enough.

Nades. Nades. Nades.

However, MK in the air is another story, as he ***** you in the air. but MK on the ground is relatively easy, if you do it right.

if he's spacing properly grounded MK is actually quite dangerous, there's a pretty significant blind zone where snake can't safely pull or use nades but also can't safely do anything else to MK.

 

[gallax]

if he's spacing properly grounded MK is actually quite dangerous, there's a pretty significant blind zone where snake can't safely pull or use nades but also can't safely do anything else to MK.

true story. in this case, if possible, run away and perform a pivot grab to be safe. if you cant run away pop a nade out anyways or if you know how to approach a mk then go ahead cuz you know how to. lol.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok once again thanks for the input. Also i was going to ask how useful/good snakes pivot grab is against mk but from the last couple posts it seems it is pretty useful so i will try to use that more.

Now when i am grabbed and he throws me forward is there anything i can do so i wont be grabbed or tornado by mk. di does not seem to help and even when i tech i can still be caught.

this is a edit so i don't double post: i was watching the ally vs m2k videos and what i realized is that when i pull out a nade i often shield drop and roll away he is far more aggressive with his nades he walks at the mk with it and then usually grabs him that might help alot since i am always caught retreating.

 

[Gr1mmy]

Grenade > Tornado.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

gr1mmy i know that but he can hit me were i get pulled into the tornado and drop the nade so it does not hit him. very annoying

 

[Firyou]

up tilt.
it only stretches the size of half the field.

 

[Gr1mmy]

When you're dropping from above, he can nado you without getting naded?

 

[napZzz]

if you're losing to an mk on the ground you should quit snake. You aren't supposed to just ftilt every time someone is in front of you, snake has grabs too to punish shields and he can camp him anyways.....its not that hard. Air camping mk's are the hard ones to deal with :/

 

[gallax]

a MK can tornado at your head and strip the nade out of your hand and suck you up while not getting hit by a nade. if you dont angle your shield up too oyu will get sucked up when it shield pokes you.

and sometimes holding a nade and walking up towards them to grab will work. but you have to be smart about it. if you arent careful the mk will just fair you all day when you do that.

if he fthrows you DI away and get to the ground asap if you think hes going to try to grab you when you land then dont fastfall. if all else fails just pull a nade out and watch the MK freeze up.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

nappy thats a little mean i have only been playing snake for about a week. the main problem i have with mk is how fast he can run in and grab. that and his range but i have been working hard on my nade game plus i have diing out of the tornado more then i use to but i still need more practice and advice.

 

[etecoon]

nappy thats a little mean i have only been playing snake for about a week.

not to mention completely ignorant, MK does have an amazing ground game, he outspaces snake, has faster attacks than snake, punishes better than snake, and has more options in most situations than snake(which means less predictable if your opponent isn't a ******). yes air campy MK is worse because there is literally nothing you can reliably do against it, but a primarily grounded MK is still better than snake.

 

[Gr1mmy]

F-tilt? =/

 

[RATED]

nappy thats a little mean i have only been playing snake for about a week. the main problem i have with mk is how fast he can run in and grab. that and his range but i have been working hard on my nade game plus i have diing out of the tornado more then i use to but i still need more practice and advice.

hmm now I understand ur problem. is not that u don't know the Matchup is just that u don't have the EXPERIENCE with Snake at all. so stop getting to much worried about this. so get experience with him and eventually u would learn this matchups and the others.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

the problem RATED is that i only know one good mk and he is very annoying when he wins so i want to put a stop to this as soon as i can. he tries to make it seem i am worst then him b/c i can't beat his mk (it should be noted my old mains were zelda and rob) i am sure if i knew how to fight mk i would win i usally get him to one sstock and today i was one u-tilt from wining but i was d-smashed first.

also what should i do when he short hop f-airs me?

 

[napZzz]

nappy thats a little mean i have only been playing snake for about a week. the main problem i have with mk is how fast he can run in and grab. that and his range but i have been working hard on my nade game plus i have diing out of the tornado more then i use to but i still need more practice and advice.

you're doing it wrong.

If you see mk run at you do the retreating pivot grab, it will beat his and be unpunished if you do the boost one I think . Just use it sparingly or else it might get baited and punished.

Snake is the close combat monster, if you're mixing up your grabs/tilts with occasional explosives correctly upclose you shouldn't be losing.

Dont bother punishing him cuz snake cant do it very well outside of an OoS attack if he hits you with a dash attack or a badly spaced aerial or something. Try to gain control of whatever part of the stage he's on with explosives and force him into you so you can get at him with tilts/grabs for good damage. This is the part of the matchup snake should excel at, if you cant do this part you wont ever be able to deal with an mk that can compete with your ground game and air camp you. Thats all I'm saying.

 

[Nic64]

A smart MK isn't going to just run into your pivot grab range blindly when you have control, MK outspaces Snake and has better tools to work around traps, he doesn't have to do anything stupid risky to win, Snake does.

 

[napZzz]

I was just giving him an example of what to do vs. a grounded mk. And from what he's saying, the grounded mk's he's playing aren't smart. SO dont bring up the good player argument cuz its kinda pointless.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

the mk i am playing is smart and i think he has beat anti (i think with his ic) he does well in tourneys and has beaten other known players in the ny area.

i to before my 6 month or so brake from the game did pretty well with rob and zelda i even came in 8th place in a nyc weekly with zelda at one time. i have come very close to beating bum as well as wes but sadly failed to win those matches.

i am a new to snake but i am no noob and neither is he

also as i get better with snake his play style against me changes to more of a common mk vs a snake. so i guess the advice is working but i am just not there yet

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

sorry for the dp but i want to let the people who have been helping me out know that my snake thanks to there advice and some videos has gotten better. sadly i have not gotten to fight the mk that much recently but i been getting to a really good dk. so the good news for me is today was the best my snakes ever been, i had nice nade tricks and snake no longer felt awkward to use. the bad thing was this was the best i have ever seen this dk play and was wrecked but since things are starting to feel more natural today might be the start of a turning point for me i just hope i am ready by oct 10th which will be my first snake tourney. also next time i play the mk i will post how i did. also even through i have no way of doing it i will see if i can get any of my matches put up online so i can show you what i am doing and people can help me out.

so once again thanks for the help up to this point

 

[BloodySnake]

well, you could always plant a fully charged landmine, wait for him on one side, and when he comes, he gets blown sky high, and you just walk under him and do your side smash...
that, or learn to use the Missile launcher.
It's what I do...
you just snipe him.
one more tactic...
get on ground, wait for him to approach you, then time a side smash, wait for him to come again. repeat.

 

[gallax]

yo some tricks of the trade nagace.

plant a landmine when you kill an opponent near the side of the stage. usually gets the opponent. and when they hit it plant another one immediately. throws them off when they hit the mine and they usually dont pay attention to you when they get exploded.

against bigger opponents like DK i camp the **** out of them and when they get close i like to spotdodge their ftilts(their hitbox will be extended when they do) and punish with ftilts. and im also grab happy against DK's. bowser not as much cuz i hate his grab release and fire so i avoid getting close. candy taught me how to camp so thats how i learned. watch some of candy's matches to lern to camp cuz it gets really easy camp some opponents and win.

and when using c4's, try to plant them in dark areas so they are hard to see. like on BF near the edges of plats. on fd near the side. on lylat plant c4's in the center(awesome spot). delphino has a unique spot thats amazing. the part where you are on the island and water on both sides there sometimes pops up a sewer manhole in the center. thats where i plant it. on pokemon stadium i plant it on the edges of plats and near the edges of the pokeball in the center. you should get the idea by now.

edit: if facing a DDD, NEVER plant a proximity on ground level. but, do plant them on plats.

 

[BloodySnake]

also, I found that if a C4 goes off near a mine, it explodes the mine, meaning you could put c4 down, then put a fully charged mine down, then, as they approach, you can set off the c4, causing double damage. also, you can put mine and c4 down, then, when they hit the mine, they fly up, and fall on the c4, which you detonate.
then maybe you could put some nades down range or something...
wonder if that works...

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

bloodysnake thanks for the suggestions but i am aware of what you told me but thanks i appreciate you trying to be helpful

gallax those are some good tips thanks again you have been very helpful. its a matter of time till i can beat the dk he might be the 2nd best DK in NY he at times hangs out and trains with bum plus he juggles like a beast and its hard to land safely he re grabs me when i land and he sometimes even predicts when i will wavebounce my nade. but with more practice i am sure i will get it. i just need to get snake down to muscle memory plus i am playing catch up with a new character but no johns i will get it just need to work a bit more on it. Also i will check out some candy videos my spam could be much better.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

sorry for the dp but i want you all to know today i fought the mk and went 3 for 7 which is a huge improvement. and all but one of the matches i lost were one hit away from me winning. so thanks a lot to everyone who helped.

 

[lucha5]

Seriously you also have to consider maybe the mk is better then you skill-wise.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Seriously you also have to consider maybe the mk is better then you skill-wise.

i have two responses to that.

1: i have been playing snake for a little under a month he has been mk for almost a year if not longer and i am starting to beat him.

2: i have known him for a while and history says were pretty even the winner of are matches are often the one who plays the better/ counter pick character. ex: he can 0 to death grab my zelda i lose. so i pick rob i win. he counters rob with mk i lose. i at a time beat his mk with zelda when his mk was new. i stop playing brawl he does not we play again he beats all my characters now that he is better with mk. then he talks me into going to a tourney i ask who should i play he says snake i pick snake up. less then a month and i am almost going even with him.

this is why i don't think he is better i think we are very even and with some more mk experience i will be winning at least half of are matches.

i realize my mistake when facing him and why i lost matches i could of won is b/c i was to busy looking for the up-tilt so he saw it coming and punished me. This is a easily corrected mistake so it should not be a problem in the future.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i know i dp a lot on this thread but today i finally beat him and his mk more then he beat my snake. it is still close how many times we beat each other but i have finally taken the lead. So thanks to everyone who helped out. finally got him to at least say we are even next step making him know who is better ( evil laugh bwhahaha)

 

[Panix]

air camping MK's are pretty easy to deal with honestly, just spam mortars. scare him to death with 100% camping. and gernade grab his approachs.
<333

 

[Nic64]

just spam mortars.

Only works if you're directly underneath him or at full DACUS spacing(this can also be beaten on reaction if he isn't leaving himself wide open), i.e. only works if he doesn't know the zoning in this matchup. And if you do get directly underneath him he has time when he see's the mortar coming out to hit you before the shell appears.

and gernade grab his approachs.

Outranged by like half his moveset.

Snake doesn't have practical options vs MK that aren't "running away", that's why he loses.