What Nintendo should do to revolutionize online play

[Timeway]

So I think it's safe to say the general consensus of Brawl players is that online gameplay is mediocre at best. This is not to say that there's anything wrong with playing online, but it is widely accepted that Nintendo left much to be desired.

In this thread, I'd like to address several of the issues and what Nintendo can do to fix them in the next Smash game (should there be one, which I personally think there will be).

1) Lag

Oh lag, how I despise you. Lag is the arguably one of the most significant problems that online Brawl players face today. Input lag in particular is a real pain, making it difficult for players to transition easily between offline and online matches; this also makes it harder to improve your skills through online play. It is my hope that Nintendo will provide us with better servers for the next Smash game so that we will actually be able to play games that have little or even zero lag in them.​

2) Interface/Menus

Brawl does not currently support a lobby that allows you to connect and Brawl against random players worldwide. It's a shame that Nintendo decided to make matches against strangers so limited; even the option to play strangers 1v1 has been taken out of the equation. For the next installment of the series, Nintendo should seriously consider including a working lobby that allows players to have matches with anywhere from 1-4 players. Customization options such as allowing for counter-picks to be selected would also be a nice addition.​

3) Player Rankings

Player rankings would eliminate the need for tedious online ladders; a built-in ladder system would prove to be more efficient and also allow for a higher level of player participation. Also, friends would be able to see who ranks the highest amongst themselves. Players would be matched up to other players according to their ranking when playing in a ranked playlist. In addition, separate rankings would exist for each playlist (see below).​

4) Playlists

I know what you're thinking-- this isn't Halo. But playlists in the Smash series would be a godsend. There would be the obvious ranked playlist which would only allow for certain stages to be played on and would disallow the use of items (matches would be played best out of three games and counter-picks would be incorporated). A party playlist which would basically be an "anything goes" playlist. A playlist for doubles teams, and playlists for different game types (Coin Battle, Stamina Battle, and others). You get the idea.​

These are the main concerns that I have. Another small complaint I have is the size of the friend roster-- this most certainly needs to be increased or become infinite in the next installment. Depending on the way Nintendo crafts their online system for their next console (or even on the 3DS) the need for a friends list within the game could become defunct.

Please feel free to include your own thoughts and opinions here as well.

 

[MikeKirby]

Kind of in the wrong tread. I think... But yeah, what you got there is true. Also has been pretty much said over the past months and couple years. Unless Sakurai doesn't work on the next SSB don't get your "Rankings Idea" hopes up. From what I've seen he doesn't seem to like the idea of competition; the idea of a winner and a loser.

Also a way to communicate better with your friends.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Edit:
http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=443

Spoiler

Masahiro Sakurai:An example: a game is built with such depth that it brings to a player's mind memories of defeat. As a game designer, I can't ignore this possibility. If, in a multiplayer fighting game, only the winner feels good and the other challengers get no such feeling, then there is really no joy at all. No matter how people play, I want everyone to be happy! Is this asking for too much?

The game I worked on, Smash Bros., is a fighting game, but keeping in mind such reasoning, I set out to make sure the game did not over-emphasize the notions of victory and defeat. I won't go into too much detail, but the game was built so that if a player is strong in combat, just doing the same thing over and over again won't guarantee they'll always win over their opponents. There is a mechanism of accidents occurring, balanced so that the game's progress and results falter easily. Whether you win or lose, you enjoy a hearty laugh, and move on to the next round. I think this makes quite a good game.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/853/853748p2.html

Spoiler

IGN: Smash Bros. is a very competitive series, but you have avoided detailed online stat tracking and leader board ranking systems for Brawl. Why is that?

Masahiro Sakurai: Well, I'm sure that people hitting ranks one through 10, were there such a ranking system, would be incredibly pleased with it and having a lot of fun. But, you know, it's not fun for everybody involved per se if such a system were to exist. I was asked this time around to try and get Wi-Fi into the game and so certainly we've managed to get wireless battles so you can play with people in other places. But it's really a game in my mind that has been designed to be played with a smaller group of people -- be that a group of friends or within your house a group of family members -- competing in the small circles and not really worrying about winning and losing so much as the process that gets you there. That is where the fun should hopefully be for a lot of people. It can also be kind of trying and painful for some people who want to be at the top and think that they're really good at Smash and they look at their online ranking and they're the one-hundred-thousandth best Smash Bros. player -- those are some of the reasons I've decided not to go with leader boards.

 

[Zatchiel]

Very nice read for your first post. In all honesty, this did not disappoint.
I can't really find any flaws in detail or something that crosses my eye as a setback, so bravo.
I hope to see more from you soon around here.

Edit: Mike, he's in the right place to post this. As to the communicative thing: We have Xats and chat servers to do such, no added pressure towards Nintendo, should they create another SSB.

 

[lance21broke]

You got there is true, specially about the lag. Thats the main problem of many online games. You cant play continuously because of lag. Its also correct to say that you cant improve your skills if all you experience is freeze all the time. Many someday they could fix it with a great and more powerful server.

 

[MikeKirby]

Oh, I thought it would go in that sticky thread for SSB4 in the General Brawl Discussion.

The Xat Chat is fine... If you have a laptop, computer in your room, or lenient computer privileges... Wouldn't using Xat cause a bit of lag though? Then again if Nintendo can majorly up the standards of the servers that wouldn't be much of the problem.

 

[Zatchiel]

Oh, I thought it would go in that sticky thread for SSB4 in the General Brawl Discussion.

I suppose it could, but i believe his main onset for creating this was looking at Online play mechanics for the next game (if so), which lead him here.

Wouldn't using Xat cause a bit of lag though?

Not that i know of. It depends on how screwy your connection is with online applications mid-play, but mine is normally just fine.

Then again if Nintendo can majorly up the standards of the servers that wouldn't be much of the problem.

Indeed it wouldn't. :]

 

[Timeway]

Very nice read for your first post. In all honesty, this did not disappoint.
I can't really find any flaws in detail or something that crosses my eye as a setback, so bravo.
I hope to see more from you soon around here.

Edit: Mike, he's in the right place to post this. As to the communicative thing: We have Xats and chat servers to do such, no added pressure towards Nintendo, should they create another SSB.

Thanks for the feedback! I've always kept my thoughts about the online play to myself, and I thought it would be good to put them into words.

Hopefully I'll be posting here for a long time to come.

Kind of in the wrong tread. I think... But yeah, what you got there is true. Also has been pretty much said over the past months and couple years. Unless Sakurai doesn't work on the next SSB don't get your "Rankings Idea" hopes up. From what I've seen he doesn't seem to like the idea of competition. The idea of a winner and a loser.

Also a way to communicate better with your friends.

I know it feels like I'm stating the obvious, but I really wanted to organize my thoughts into concise points so I can go back and look at them whenever I need to.

If what you say is true, then I hope someone other than Sakurai will lead development for the next Smash game. Or maybe he will recognize that there is a large Smash community that would appreciate a more competitively designed game. Who knows?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I am very impressed with the quality of this thread, especially in comparison to the posts I normally see in here

Well done OP

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

I agree with pretty much everything, i also think you should be able to add as many people to your friends list as possible(i hope someone makes a code ), and if there is rankings then someone should do something like have someone lose the fight if they quit/turn thier wii off. in nsconr3 ppl quit like 70% of the time that i win.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

This is a good idea, but the player rankings isn't. All it does is show who plays the most, not who is the best.

Also the play list idea is cool, but it limmits the ammount of content. I doubt that nintendo cares for a counterpick system or that we play with items on.

 

[BluePSI]

Those are very good ideas! I hate having to brawl others who are just way to good for me that the game becomes boring or vise versa.

 

[Yink]

1) Lag

Oh lag, how I despise you. Lag is the arguably one of the most significant problems that online Brawl players face today. Input lag in particular is a real pain, making it difficult for players to transition easily between offline and online matches; this also makes it harder to improve your skills through online play. It is my hope that Nintendo will provide us with better servers for the next Smash game so that we will actually be able to play games that have little or even zero lag in them.​

This is probably the largest issue in Brawl's Wifi problems. I think it mostly has to do with Nintendo's server choice. Someone told me it ran under Gamespy for a really long time (and it might still be, who knows) and they just can't support the number of people playing. I don't think Nintendo really considered how popular this would be online.

2) Interface/Menus

Brawl does not currently support a lobby that allows you to connect and Brawl against random players worldwide. It's a shame that Nintendo decided to make matches against strangers so limited; even the option to play strangers 1v1 has been taken out of the equation. For the next installment of the series, Nintendo should seriously consider including a working lobby that allows players to have matches with anywhere from 1-4 players. Customization options such as allowing for counter-picks to be selected would also be a nice addition.​

Seriously agree. Once again, I don't think Nintendo thought about how this would work out in the long run

3) Player Rankings

Player rankings would eliminate the need for tedious online ladders; a built-in ladder system would prove to be more efficient and also allow for a higher level of player participation. Also, friends would be able to see who ranks the highest amongst themselves. Players would be matched up to other players according to their ranking when playing in a ranked playlist. In addition, separate rankings would exist for each playlist (see below).​

In all fairness, it's hard to create a Player Ranking list, and it seems like something Nintendo just wouldn't want to do. I mean yeah it'd be nice if they did it but I don't see them doing it. As for matching people up, yes, that would be ideal to skill level.

4) Playlists

I know what you're thinking-- this isn't Halo. But playlists in the Smash series would be a godsend. There would be the obvious ranked playlist which would only allow for certain stages to be played on and would disallow the use of items (matches would be played best out of three games and counter-picks would be incorporated). A party playlist which would basically be an "anything goes" playlist. A playlist for doubles teams, and playlists for different game types (Coin Battle, Stamina Battle, and others). You get the idea.​

Agreed.

These are the main concerns that I have. Another small complaint I have is the size of the friend roster-- this most certainly needs to be increased or become infinite in the next installment. Depending on the way Nintendo crafts their online system for their next console (or even on the 3DS) the need for a friends list within the game could become defunct.

Please feel free to include your own thoughts and opinions here as well.

My comments are in red. Nice thread.

 

[MikeKirby]

This is probably the largest issue in Brawl's Wifi problems. I think it mostly has to do with Nintendo's server choice. Someone told me it ran under Gamespy for a really long time (and it might still be, who knows) and they just can't support the number of people playing. I don't think Nintendo really considered how popular this would be online.

Yeah, I read that it runs through Gamespy, too. Really might not help much but this thread doesn't get enough views.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155378

Spoiler

2. Open UDP ports going out or DMZ your Wii's IP address.

Most routers have a DMZ option, aka "demilitarized zone", meaning that whichever IP address has the DMZ on it will have full incoming and outgoing access to all ports.

1. Log into your router (usually http://192.168.1.1/). If you don't know your router's IP, use the "Run..." command in Windows and put in "ipconfig" and hit enter. One of the values it returns should be "Gateway" and you'll have an IP address for the Gateway: that's your "gateway" to the internet, aka your router's IP address. Put it into a browser window as the URL and hit enter.

2. Find the router's DHCP connection list. On this list, you will find your Wii (if it's on and WC24 is running, that is).

3. Copy your Wii's IP address and go to the router's DMZ section (DMZ = demilitarized zone, meaning all ports open).

4. Put the Wii's IP address into the DMZ, save the settings and reboot the router.

5. Try Brawl and see how it works.

NOTE: Your Wii's IP address can and will change if it's connecting through DHCP. This will behave as a temporary test to see if your Wii sees improvement or not.

You're basically opening your firewall to your Wii, which SHOULD mean that Gamespy's servers no longer need to proxy the stream so the two Wiis can remain connected, which is how it currently must behave if one or both Wiis is behind a firewall which normally blocks incoming connections from programs like Brawl.

To check to see if your ports are open, use this: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/sys...etworkTest.jsp

It's Nintendo's own network tester (you'll need XP and IE to use it, though).

This thread might also help: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gen...topic=41913059

4. Make sure those you play with have their Wii DMZed as well!

It doesn't matter how open your firewall is if your online friends have theirs closed. This means that you're still going to be forced to proxy through Gamespy's servers on some level. Ideally, you want to establish a direct connection to your opponent, and this can only happen if Gamespy isn't needed as an intermediary to get through a firewall for either of the users.

 

[UberMario]

I'm still waiting for online special brawls, I doubt I'm going to get them though. >_>

 

[global-wolf]

I doubt Nintendo will make any changes to Brawl online at this point in time. It's been almost 3 years since Brawl came out, all the issues with online were probably brought up soon after the game came out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The only thing I can understand is the ranking list stuff with how Nintendo did it, the rest is problems with the Wii and the game in ways.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Not really, if you have ever played "Monster Hunter 3" for the Wii, you would know that when playing online it offers almost no lag. Thats because Capcom put up they're own servers. The only problem is it kicks you out time to time. But that rarely happens and it's easy to get back into the game.

 

[Dawane Smith]

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[lucha5]

built-in ladders usually fail. causes noobs to d/c if they lose . its just a mess
everything else is fine. its been stated just gotta hope the next smash bros is better

 

[Danny_Lyons]

Online a lobby to chat or atleast be able to add the other person.(Concerning the online brawl where you can't see the tag name and play strangers)

Seeing their name tags online in teams and that other brawl option I forgot the name.

Making the game actually competitive wise other than a party game this isn't mario party.

You adressed the lag issuses so I won't comment on that.

And get Support from Fawking MLG...

Nintendo would gain so many more fans if they sponsored brawl :\.

This is all I can touch on for now.

 

[arch knight]

built-in ladders usually fail. causes noobs to d/c if they lose . its just a mess
everything else is fine. its been stated just gotta hope the next smash bros is better

Agreed Ladders and leaderboards wouldnt be a good idea as people would most likely cheat and hack to be on top :/

Online a lobby to chat or atleast be able to add the other person.(Concerning the online brawl where you can't see the tag name and play strangers)
Are you talking kinda like Halo and MW2 lobbies? Cause that would be helpful or atleast make it so you can see a gamer card on the person.

Making the game actually competitive wise other than a party game this isn't mario party.
id rather it be more like different modes have an option to pick either casual or competitive play from a menu

And get Support from Fawking MLG...

Nintendo would gain so many more fans if they sponsored brawl :\.
They really should i mean they get alot of their members from online game -Obvious statement is obvious-
Even though Smash Bros is kind of a joke they can atleast throw in some two cents to help make it better. It kinda worked for halo everyone just became an *** in it though >.>
This is all I can touch on for now.

 

[Luigi man]

I think it's good that brawl doesn't have player rankings because if it did have player rankings it would have a lot of hackers.

 

[Vinylic.]

I think it's good that brawl doesn't have player rankings because if it did have player rankings it would have a lot of hackers.

Ratchet and clank: Size Matters online had hackers. The Rankings messed up and sony did nothing to help. Hacking is cheap. Very Cheap.

So taking off all hackers can be a part of revolutionizing online play, Especially Mario Kart Wii.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oh yeah, just remove all the hackers! Problem solved!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Crap! Does this mean I have to beat you legitimately now?

 

[SummersXen]

If not mentioned already no more friend codes better to add a name then a list of numbers.

A more suitable messaging system instead of looking at your friends character bar thing(Don't know the name for it) and that wii menu messaging doesnt work so well especially if you have to go back to the wii menu just to see a message then click back to the game, sorta kills your time.

And I strongly agree with the whole player rankings and lag issue.

 

[Albino Ace]

Online a lobby to chat or atleast be able to add the other person.(Concerning the online brawl where you can't see the tag name and play strangers)

Seeing their name tags online in teams and that other brawl option I forgot the name.

I Agree with this.

 

[Sephy95]

This is probably dumb and could lead to heated arguments but they should make a headset for online matches for better communication or at least some kind of option where you can communicate with them while brawl. The lag would probably mess that up though. Like I said, this is dumb.......
Btw this is my first post ^-^

 

[BrawLBlazer]

Some form of online communication through headset
A lobby and the ability to customize the type of match you want to play over random online
Ability to add people over random wifi
Less lag
DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT

 

[BSP]

Ratchet and clank: Size Matters online had hackers. The Rankings messed up and sony did nothing to help. Hacking is cheap. Very Cheap.

So taking off all hackers can be a part of revolutionizing online play, Especially Mario Kart Wii.

I never have much of a problem with hackers with MKW. If Brawl had a point system like MKW for with anyone mode, hackers shouldn't be too much of a problem. You'd be able to get higher up without too much interference.

 

[Sephy95]

I wanna be able to see other players names too.

 

[Sephy95]

Some form of online communication through headset
A lobby and the ability to customize the type of match you want to play over random online
Ability to add people over random wifi
Less lag
DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT

Heheh yeah I'd like that too. Then again I think everybody would like less lag.

 

[BSP]

Sephy, use the edit function to avoid double posts.

We do need some sort of communication online. As it stands, we've got little to no chance of meeting anyone we've met online.

 

[Xander]

hi all, im here to tell u about Ratchet and Clank SIZE MATTERS, the hackers cannot be removed there as no admins are seen since 4 years of online gaming there, u know that game is full of hackers and freezers

Destined2bGreat is the hacker that ruined the game, and Slowpoke (thats me), he froze the game with his freeze code

lag is simple. every game lags simply because a game cannot load that many stuff at a time

 

[U.K.L.]

they should make spectate live and have names and stay with the same group and the people whatching can go boo and yeah!, they should have a 1v1 and 2v2 a rival list and freind codes for you know if i want to battle a specific person, nintendo should also update stuff like master pieces, chronicles and stage builder and let you send them back online, a lobby where you can see who you want to battle, they can keep b.b. t.b. and while your waiting it should show the people your connected to and spectated matches and for the love of pete they should have tournaments make your own and nintendo's once a month and when you win it should go to your record, and the last thing they should let ever one see your records

 

[BSP]

TBH, I would be fine with them dropping spectactor to do something else usefull. Maybe it's just me, but I never use it.

 

[U.K.L.]

spectate suck's what im saying is that they can improve it at least live i mean recorded come on man

 

[Ussi]

They should allow spectating with FCs that way we don't have to kill ourselves to watch two people play online.

Hell, it'd open so much with rotation brawls online

 

[funkyluc]

Nintendo should add a "Join" function where you can join a friend where he/she is in a battle with anyone, like the join function in Mario Kart Wii.

 

[satowolf]

Tourney mode would be good.