Omega Male
Smash Cadet
In b4 they nerf him for some reason.
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
technically, none of lucario's moves have A LOT of endlag when they've connected with shield, because you can still ASC. The only time that would be hurting you is if you whiff.yeah and you basically get out for free because pretty much all of lucario's moves have A Lot of endlag, especially his dash attack, force palm and smashes. anyone who doesn't punish lucario for whiffing a move needs to work on their punish game.
or if you prefer not to roll, WD OoS or, as i said before, buffering a spot dodge are solid options.
Literally in the next sentence Bec mentions punishing whiffs, as she was outlining the situation of somebody buffering a roll to escape Lucario's followup after hitting their shield.technically, none of lucario's moves have A LOT of endlag when they've connected with shield, because you can still ASC. The only time that would be hurting you is if you whiff.
I think at this point we can assume hes trolling.i wish smashboards didnt have a character limit because all i have to say at this point is
lol
Or you could just learn frame data and then figure out that nothing lucario has combos into FP on shield. He hasn't been able to do that since 2.1.The only way a buffer roll/spotdodge would work if you were waiting in your shield getting ready to buffer your shield. Unless the lucario player is dumb, then they will just simply run up and grab you or even forcepalm. If lucario hits shield with and aerial it is literally a free forcepalm due to the shieldstun and you don't even have to L cancel because you can start the move before you even hit the ground. Another thing that doesn't work with your oh so brilliant ideas of buffering a roll is if you aren't crouch canceling, or are too high % to crouch cancel, then you wont touch the ground making impossible to shield let alone buffer a roll/spotdodge. It obviously wasn't a good idea coming here with all of you lucario mains because you will only disagree and claim your precious character doesn't need a nerf.
Yeah I am just trolling so forget I said anything.I think at this point we can assume hes trolling.
You can technically do this already. If initiated from the ground, ES can be cancelled via charge, and then used again. In air, one must OHC off something post ESC to use the move again.Mine is relatively simple. Cancelling your Recovery into using another recovery.
Edit: using a charge to cancel your recovery in order to use a second recovery.
Once again without acronyms please?You can technically do this already. If initiated from the ground, ES can be cancelled via charge, and then used again. In air, one must OHC off something post ESC to use the move again.
What do yo think the best acronym for aura charging aerial force palm is? AaFP?ES = extremespeed (up b)
DT = double team (down b)
AS = aura sphere (neutral b)
C typically stands for cancel (ESC, DTC, ASC)
OHC = on hit cancel, refers to lucario's ability to cancel one move into another
FP = force palm
aFP = aerial force palm
gFP = grounded force palm (i use this, dunno how many others do?)
AB = aura bomb
those are the lucario specific ones that i can think of off the top of my head
Lucari-Dunk?What do yo think the best acronym for aura charging aerial force palm is? AaFP?
This may also help a bit.I'm relatively new to the scene and am learning the lingo as I go.
Well Zard flat outranges Lucario. I recommend using exclusively a punish game against him.After getting my *** handed to me again by more spacies, and a Zard, I gotta say my ideal Luc would actually have pressure options. I just can't do anything in most match ups aside from DD. Luc has the tools. It's just his tools horrendously suck.
I even had a very safe Weegee player punish me incredibly hard in my local practice group. WEEGEE.
I'm very familiar with all these MU for Lucario. I play against these people at least 10 hours a week. I'll admit part of my problem are mind games. I'm still conditioning myself mentally for Smash. The problem is that in each of these MU I can't pressure any of them.Well Zard flat outranges Lucario. I recommend using exclusively a punish game against him.
And the spacies should only out-aggressive Lucario if:
1. The Lucario is playing slow.
2. The Spacie is... just too good.
3. The Lucario doesn't approach.
I recommend either countering the spacie with... whatever counters the spacie, or just.. go nuts on him with Lucario combos.
Huh? Are you talking to me? I'm confused. You've got no quotes an it seems like you're addressing me, but I never said anything about Brawl Lucario or Smash 4 Lucario being better (I think? I'm kind of tired at the moment). All my complaints add up to is that I don't like how Down-B is so useless on the surface for someone like me. I know that it's made for the competitive crowd, I'm just saying that they shouldn't focus on JUST the competitive aspects. A few things for Casuals like me, such as Lucario's Down-Special, and maybe a slightly less complex combo system for some of the more drastically changes characters.I personally played Brawl for up to three years after launch and was a strict Lucario main. However what you're asking for may not necessarily fit in the PM environment. Having that high of a damage cap, with Brawl or Smash 4's scaling, will more likely inhibit Lucario until high percents. The higher gravity, nerfed recoveries, and focus on movement in the PM environment would seriously hurt Brawl Lucario.
Say we revert to Brawl Lucario. That means we lose dash and walking speed. Reverting DT and ES also means we lose even more movement options. Lucario has the third shortest wavedash of any character, and taking the charges away means we lose the burst options we need to even have any form of recovery or approach mix ups. Brawl Lucario would just be nothing but spacing all the time with fsmash or AS. Making him Smash 4 Lucario would be even worse in terms of movement options, and would force FP flame spacing in neutral as well. He can't even DACUS properly. Lucario already has a very rough time in neutral as is. This would make it much worse on him.
Say we keep his dash/walk speed. As of now PM thrives on movement options. We lost three major movement options with removal of charges and OHC. We also lost pursuit, recovery, cross up, and many other options.
We would have an incredibly neutered KO game until extreme percents, or even until we're behind a couple of stocks with moderately high damage. A Lucario with low damage would be extremely vulnerable to crouch cancel. Even moreso than PM Lucario is now. The higher gravity would also probably neuter/hinder his combo game. Luc puts out 20% damage at low percents in twice (even more) the number of moves in comparison to what takes other characters two or three. It's already a mental game past two or three hits with DI, reads, platforms, etc. Luc doesn't need his damage output nerfed that hard at the beginning of each stock.
I do get what you mean by keeping hold of stocks, but stocks are usually gone in a under a minute in these kind of environments. In order to even make damage scaling work in this faster, free flowing movement environment, you would need to have the scaling have a lower scale cap or drastically increase the rate at which it scales just to even make it applicable for KO. Either way this would not help combo ability, and end up forcing the Lucario player into neutral more often than not just to land the killing blow. If there were even a string of moves applicable for combos, or even set ups, I would wager he'd need some form of momentum increase just to capitalize off of his hits. Maybe even lower DI/SDI modifiers on his set up/combo moves.
A lot to Brawl Lucario's combo game, and defense game, were his lingering hitboxes. They caught opponents off guard and made him a very safe character. Smash 4 royally fudged that up. His hitboxes are much smaller, extend his hurtboxes, and don't linger. Either way placing any form of Lucario into the PM environment means he loses the most important option in that kind of environment: movement. You'll be forced to play a campy character that'll have even worse neutral options (though at least you got options to force the opponent to commit), and will be totally different in at least one aspect in terms of momentum just to even capitalize off your moves at higher percents.
On to DT, I personally would not want it changed. PM Lucario needs this or his neutral game would be Bowser level bad. The burst movement with this thing is hilarious. It provides so much Luc needs. DACUS, mix up approach, cross ups OHC off shield, continue combos, mix up recovery, better recovery, etc. Putting either version of DT into this would be a complete downgrade. DT in Brawl was so laughably bad because of how easy it was to avoid. Smash 4 DT is actually usable, but is still situational. Putting it in here is just begging for the user to be punished. The game is so much faster, and just throwing it out is liable for a lost stock. No reason to change this for the sake of change.
The things you're pointing out largely are due to either aesthetics or because you aren't as experienced with the changes Luc received. Also keep in mind PM is largely made for the competitive community. It highly encourages you to get better and understand its inner workings. I would like to see that running animation though. Looks cool.