What is happening to Pit?

[SilentPinoy]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=266820

I don't know if I should be happy or confused about Pit's placement on this new tier list. We are top "C" rank(13th) and as from previous entries we keep rising and rising up the ranks.

I have a very developed Pit game, so I can say with confidence that Pit is a character with many holes in his capabilities, on one hand we have a vast technical game(many which are over/under-rated) and variable advantages , but clearly we aren't perfect(cause we aren't "S" tier ).

What exactly are we doing that is causing us to rise? Cause I feel like I missed something...

 

[Nitrix]

I agree, I don't know why we are so high O_o. I mean I like Pit, but it doesn't feel like we have any standout players except koolaid.

Oh well, lets just take it and run with it

 

[Katana_koden]

Pit is too good, has the tools to fight anyone in many situation except on yoshi's island.
Some may be way difficult, but compared to the rest of cast, do you think they fair enough against the rest?
He's not high enough in my opinion.
Meta is over everyone
G&W somehow is 70:30, I really don't understand, he's easier than meta, why is it a worse matchup.
Olimar was hard till I realized his ground grab game and no aerial priority.
Falco is 50 50 I believe.
Snake, I don't care how good he is, I still believe pit has the advantage on him. Just have to approach him differently or not at all.

 

[SilentPinoy]

Pit is too good, has the tools to fight anyone in many situation except on yoshi's island.
Some may be way difficult, but compared to the rest of cast, do you think they fair enough against the rest?
He's not high enough in my opinion.
Meta is over everyone
G&W somehow is 70:30, I really don't understand, he's easier than meta, why is it a worse matchup.
Olimar was hard till I realized his ground grab game and no aerial priority.
Falco is 50 50 I believe.
Snake, I don't care how good he is, I still believe pit has the advantage on him. Just have to approach him differently or not at all.

@G&W totally agree, he's trash and easily readable. Probably people argue that he buckets our arrows, in which I retort while he's wasting time bucketing I get a free F-smash.
@rest just simply agree

But this aside, if 1 person can have enough rep to raise a character(koolaid for us, ally for the Captain Falcons<- very happy about his raise) imagine a bunch of us taking game,(now if only I could get my dazzle to work with my crappy laptop to show, my style of play isn't that different from what I see with koolaid)

 

[Coffee™]

Koolaid isn't the reason Pit rose. The BBR just basically acknowledges his potential which is why he retained such a high position and even then not everyone there agreed he should be placed so high. Imo he should be higher but it's up to the community to go out and prove it.

 

[IrisKong]

I agree pit is C tier, but I dont think he is better than tink or kirby. That being said, I am picking him up to see what he can do

 

[yummynbeefy]

Koolaid isn't the reason Pit rose. The BBR just basically acknowledges his potential which is why he retained such a high position and even then not everyone there agreed he should be placed so high. Imo he should be higher but it's up to the community to go out and prove it.

mmm i disagree hes definately not better than he was @ the start of the game


also to that one guy i really think tink is better but kirby IS NOT!!!

actually ill go through my personal opinions on each character

meta - 65-35 - really tough for pit you cant rely on arrows as much because of his crazy speed and nado priority its like the diddy matchup you need to learn it for yourself no one can teach it to you
snake 55-45 pit if u camp your balls off and dont approach unless you see the opening
diddy 50-50 tricky but very very doable leaning towards diddys favor either way i cant explain how to play the matchup its something that imo cant really be taught
falco 55-45 one of the only characters that outcamp us and boy he can b a bittttchhhhhh
iceys 90-10 yummy 60-40 pit seriously i was the icey slayer i had a friend who could do those chaingrabs like crazy and it was either learn how to not get grabbed or lose to him almost every time and thats exactly what i did
marth 55-45 marth this matchup is fun as hell tricky but fun
wario dont know enough about him so its like an 20-80 other guy for me
d3 55-45 pit kinda like snake exept a bit harder and when i say that i literally mean A BIT harder

random other **** matchup for me
peach 95-5 other guy it always seems no matter how well i know this matchup no matter how well i space and do stuff right peach always gets me somehow for example one time i beat in order best mario in FL best zelda in FL best ness in FL and then i lose to the best peach in FL and i actually get 3 stocked as well ( yes i know those other characters arent exactly good but the players sure are )

 

[Kool Aid]

workworkworkworkworkworkwork

 

[Corrupted]

Even (potentially) bias pit mains think his placement is off wtf?!

The tier used to be a good guidline but now this game is 95% match-up experience anyway.

Koolaid youre amazing for getting 9th at veridian but you >>>> any other pit.

 

[Esca]

With a combination of Pits, (IE myself/R@VYN/KoolAid/Vex/Cha0tic) beating good people and playing Pit the way we're supposed to, is the reason he's 13th.

Pit should actually be 9th on the tier list.

 

[Sphere]

With a combination of Pits, (IE myself/R@VYN/KoolAid/Vex/Cha0tic) beating good people and playing Pit the way we're supposed to, is the reason he's 13th.

Pit should actually be 9th on the tier list.

What he meant to say here was: Kool-Aid beating good people and playing Pit the way he's supposed to are the reasons he's 13th.

 

[Esca]

Sphere = Idiot.

 

[Kool Aid]

Sphere = too good.

......fixed

 

[Smashragde]

u___u this kind of thing just make me fell sad .... T___T

 

[Tetsion]

I think Pit is legit. He is higher tier in Japan and Mexico.

He is simply not popular enough in America where we can advance his metagame enough. We think Masashi is good, i never see him do many AT's though. he spaces himself right for the most part.

Sadly I don't think Pit can be the char to do "Crazy combo's" or things like that. If we fight paitently and slowly.. we have more of a chance of winning then trying to GO IN to a person all the time. At least that could be one reason, not the only.. but yeah.

I think Pit can be at least B tier. If we advanced him enough, Koolaid is doing a good job.. we just gotta practice and try more too. BBR recognizes pit, so that means we should PROBABLY try to get real discussions going. Video's etc.. like if someone could record vids for me i'd upload some (if any) that I have saved still.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm not good (yet) with Pit but I think he should be top 10 in this game. He's def better than D3, G&W and imo Marth too. Though I think the C and D Tier characters are generally lumped together too randomly. Wolf and Fox are both better than Peach and Toon Link. Luigi, ROB and Kirby are still overrated and too high on the tier list. All space animals are better characters than them.

Pit def doesn't belong down there. MK having his own tier is imo a bit misleading and blows things out of proportion. Imo MK should be in the same Tier as Snake, Diddy and Falco. MAYBE Wario and ICs too. That'd be S-Tier. Then Pit would be near the top of A-Tier imo.

 

[IrisKong]

I'm not good (yet) with Pit but I think he should be top 10 in this game. He's def better than D3, G&W and imo Marth too. Though I think the C and D Tier characters are generally lumped together too randomly. Wolf and Fox are both better than Peach and Toon Link. Luigi, ROB and Kirby are still overrated and too high on the tier list. All space animals are better characters than them.

Pit def doesn't belong down there. MK having his own tier is imo a bit misleading and blows things out of proportion. Imo MK should be in the same Tier as Snake, Diddy and Falco. MAYBE Wario and ICs too. That'd be S-Tier. Then Pit would be near the top of A-Tier imo.

You are either uneducated/new to the game or trolling. Marth is better than Pit, at least right now, marth just has some better matchups. Just because Koolaid placed Higher than Neo at VC7 doesnt mean pit is better than marth (neo isnt the best marth anymore anyways, sadly, Mike Haze is). I say the same about D3, Just because we do well against D3 doesnt mean we are better than him as a character, he ***** alot of his matchups where as the majority of ours are very even. We might be able to pass up GaW due to him only being really viable in dubs.
There is no way wolf and fox are better than tink or peach. Its painfully obvious actually. Fox gets ***** in like 4 80-20 match ups, and wolf has one of the worst recoveries in the game. I think that where pit is currently is correct. He may be able to rise higher, but shouldn't just yet, which is why we need to step it up.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

1.) I'm probably better at this game than you are.
2.) I'm not trolling. I just have made experiences you haven't (yet).
3.) I could go into detail on why Pit > D3 / G&W and why spacies > Peach / TLink but you look pretty narrow minded so I'm not going to bother. Just telling you that the majority isn't always right. And in Brawl's case it's very rarely right.

 

[Esca]

Pit has the potential to be 9th in this game. No higher, no lower. 9th.

 

[IrisKong]

1.) I'm probably better at this game than you are.
2.) I'm not trolling. I just have made experiences you haven't (yet).
3.) I could go into detail on why Pit > D3 / G&W and why spacies > Peach / TLink but you look pretty narrow minded so I'm not going to bother. Just telling you that the majority isn't always right. And in Brawl's case it's very rarely right.

Id actually like to hear your reasoning. I can agree that Pit has potential to get higher, as Esca said, maybe 9th best, but not higher, and not yet. I am willing to discuss how you think Tink and Peach are worse than wolf and fox though, becasue I can see how you could think that (and I dont think like everyone else does, I personally think Peach deserves the spot ZSS has on the list.)

 

[dualseeker]

I don't know why people are so surprised that Pit is rising in the tier list. It's not like he's the greatest character, but he certainly has enough potential to be a dangerous opponent. We, have two deflectors, one of the only people that can control our projectiles, and have one of the best (but vulnerable) recoveries.

I would also like to here Gheb 1's thoughts on the matter on how Fox and Wolf beat Peach and Toon Link. I could understand Toon Link, but I can't understand how they beat Peach. And how are we better than Marth?

What I would like to say is, Pit has potential to rise to new heights if we apply ourselves. We shouldn't just take this as an accident, or some kind of lucky event. We should be taking this as an incentive to go further, and make it all the way to number 9 on the tier list.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't really feel like going into too much detail so keep it shortish:

- Pit lives longer than Marth
- Pit deals more damage than Marth
- Pit kills way earlier than Marth
- Pit has a much better Projectile
- Better Match-ups against MK, ICs and Diddy (aka 75% of the metagame)
- Marth has weakness to juggle traps, Pit doesn't
- Marth is rather weak on the ledge getting back on stage, Pit isn't
- Marth has a blind spot below him in the air, Pit doesn't

 

[IrisKong]

I don't really feel like going into too much detail so keep it shortish:

- Pit lives longer than Marth
- Pit deals more damage than Marth
- Pit kills way earlier than Marth
- Pit has a much better Projectile
- Better Match-ups against MK, ICs and Diddy (aka 75% of the metagame)
- Marth has weakness to juggle traps, Pit doesn't
- Marth is rather weak on the ledge getting back on stage, Pit isn't
- Marth has a blind spot below him in the air, Pit doesn't

I think you are thinking of the matchup between pit and marth more so than as a whole.

- Pit lives longer than Marth-not really, they live till about the same %
- Pit kills way earlier than Marth-...no lmao, pit has a hard time killing, A tip fsmash or a fresh dolfin slash kill early.
- Better Match-ups against MK, ICs and Diddy (aka 75% of the metagame)- lol no. Marth is better against MK and IC, not sure on diddy though

 

[dualseeker]

Where did you get that Pit kills earlier than Marth? Marth has tippers, which are a big help, we don't. We have few Smashes that equal Marths, and our Bair doesn't launch that far on lower percentages. Marth can launch farther on lower percentages if he lands a tipper. And even though we have a projectile, he can close the distance really fast and punish us. The only time our projectiles become a problem are when he's offstage. And Marth has great Edge game! He can Spike you. Even though he has somewhat of a blind spot, he can compensate for that with Fairs and well placed Bairs.

 

[yummynbeefy]

diddy/ marth is in marths favor (i think) and it is easier for marth than diddy

iceys IMHO pit has it really easy compared to marth but marth can handle them easier

metaknight however i think their matchups with meta are basically the same though pit DEFINATELY has a better matchup with snake than marth as well as D3

imo zss is better than pit and peach is very close to pit lucario IS NOT better than pit toon link is about as close to pit as you can get imho TL and Pit are literally dead even in terms of tier placement imho

 

[IrisKong]

diddy/ marth is in marths favor (i think) and it is easier for marth than diddy

iceys IMHO pit has it really easy compared to marth but marth can handle them easier

metaknight however i think their matchups with meta are basically the same though pit DEFINATELY has a better matchup with snake than marth as well as D3

imo zss is better than pit and peach is very close to pit lucario IS NOT better than pit toon link is about as close to pit as you can get imho TL and Pit are literally dead even in terms of tier placement imho

You sure its "IMHO"? lol

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

Pit is not better than Marth Lawl

Also, I'd LOVE to see the reasoning behind your statement that Luigi, ROB, and Kirby should be lower on the tier list than they already are. It's bad enough to spew your nonsense about Pit being S tier, but now you're just showing that you're a complete imbecile.

"Wolf and Fox are better than TL"... What the ****? It's agreed that Toon Link and Pit are near even, with your ideology Fox and Wolf should be S tier, with Pit and Toon Link right below them I find flaws in your twisted theorycraft, young Jedi. And Luigi... Where the hell did that come from? Luigi's not even that close to Pit O_o

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take you seriously at all when you go around just posting the most *random* *** stuff...

 

[dextasmurf]

i kinda miss Pit sigh.... now i struggle against snakes cuzz i dont have the B button to abuse.. Well at least not in a projectile way...might come baq to him..

 

[Esca]

Pit is not better than Marth Lawl

Also, I'd LOVE to see the reasoning behind your statement that Luigi, ROB, and Kirby should be lower on the tier list than they already are. It's bad enough to spew your nonsense about Pit being S tier, but now you're just showing that you're a complete imbecile.

"Wolf and Fox are better than TL"... What the ****? It's agreed that Toon Link and Pit are near even, with your ideology Fox and Wolf should be S tier, with Pit and Toon Link right below them I find flaws in your twisted theorycraft, young Jedi. And Luigi... Where the hell did that come from? Luigi's not even that close to Pit O_o

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take you seriously at all when you go around just posting the most *random* *** stuff...

Pit is better than Marth. Everything Gheb said (aside from killing capability) is honestly true. Marth's playstyle/metagame was far more evolved than Pit's was since the beginning of Brawl. I don't mean playing AS Marth, I'm talking about playing against him. People learned how to play against him very quickly due to his lack of flash/mindgames.

As far as Luigi/ROB/Kirby, I think Pit is above those three characters.

Wolf and Fox are better than Toon link. Here's some examples I can think of right off the bat.

Zeton vs Hyro -- Zeton wins.

Reflex (Wolf) vs Jerm -- Reflex wins.

Samboner vs Jerm -- Samboner wins.

Don't even get me started on Jumpman.

It's hard to take you seriously when you randomly bash people trying to talk.

 

[dualseeker]

Pit is better than Marth. Everything Gheb said (aside from killing capability) is honestly true. Marth's playstyle/metagame was far more evolved than Pit's was since the beginning of Brawl. I don't mean playing AS Marth, I'm talking about playing against him. People learned how to play against him very quickly due to his lack of flash/mindgames.

This makes so much more sense! I was confused when he said that Pit is better than Marth, but when you put it that way... It's hard to argue against.

As far as Luigi/ROB/Kirby, I think Pit is above those three characters.

I also agree with this.

Wolf and Fox are better than Toon link.

I agree with this as well.

It's hard to take you seriously when you randomly bash people trying to talk.

True. Be more open.

 

[Hyro]

Pit is better than Marth. Everything Gheb said (aside from killing capability) is honestly true. Marth's playstyle/metagame was far more evolved than Pit's was since the beginning of Brawl. I don't mean playing AS Marth, I'm talking about playing against him. People learned how to play against him very quickly due to his lack of flash/mindgames.

As far as Luigi/ROB/Kirby, I think Pit is above those three characters.

Wolf and Fox are better than Toon link. Here's some examples I can think of right off the bat.

Zeton vs Hyro -- Zeton wins.

Reflex (Wolf) vs Jerm -- Reflex wins.

Samboner vs Jerm -- Samboner wins.

Don't even get me started on Jumpman.

It's hard to take you seriously when you randomly bash people trying to talk.

NAMESEARCH

The only time I played Zeton was at Oh Snap and I won so....????

 

[IrisKong]

*sigh* you guys just dont seem to get it...

Just because a good fox beats a good tink doesnt mean that character is better, it can mean a number of things, maybe one knows the MU better than the other, or maybe for THAT SPECIFIC MU (fox vs tink for instance) fox may have the upper hand. You have to look at the bigger picture. Fox has like 3 MU's that are 80-20 in the other characters favor... Shiek can 0 death him (VERY easily), so can peach, pika almost can, and IC can (although IC can to everyone so I wont count that, you get the idea) Tink has no MU that is that bad, that is what is hindering fox/wolf.

Although this discussion is about pit, not fox and tink so it doesnt matter... Oh, and esca, would yu be willing to help with my idea for the Pit MU thing?

 

[TheJerm]

Wtf, I never played Samboner. I'm pretty sure I can beat him. I watched hyro beat zeton. And I did lose to reflex's wolf, but reflex but it went down to last hit and he ran the timer. Wolf and fox are not better than tl.

 

[Esca]

NAMESEARCH

The only time I played Zeton was at Oh Snap and I won so....????

Dude you got so lucky. He definately beat you.

Ferris wheel mm?

 

[Realmz]

Pit is better than Marth. Everything Gheb said (aside from killing capability) is honestly true. Marth's playstyle/metagame was far more evolved than Pit's was since the beginning of Brawl. I don't mean playing AS Marth, I'm talking about playing against him. People learned how to play against him very quickly due to his lack of flash/mindgames.

As far as Luigi/ROB/Kirby, I think Pit is above those three characters.

Wolf and Fox are better than Toon link. Here's some examples I can think of right off the bat.

Zeton vs Hyro -- Zeton wins.

Reflex (Wolf) vs Jerm -- Reflex wins.

Samboner vs Jerm -- Samboner wins.

Don't even get me started on Jumpman.

It's hard to take you seriously when you randomly bash people trying to talk.

Just because Fox and Wolf might have an advantage against Tink (I actually only think Fox does) in the match-up does not mean they are overall better characters than Tink for how they do against the rest of the cast. Tink is better than Fox and Wolf, even if he loses in the match-up against them (if). Same for Peach.

 

[Coffee™]

Fox > TL >> Wolf....

 

[Allbrex]

Pit has the potential to be 9th in this game. No higher, no lower. 9th.

Esca what's your thoughts on that? You play against a top MK, Snake and Diddy in Dojo, Razer, Gnes, so who all do you think Pit can beat, and can't?

 

[Esca]

I feel like Pit loses to MK 65:35. This is assuming that the MK knows the matchup and is at the same level of play.

Pit VS Snake is around 6:4 as well, also assuming the Snake has good knowledge of the matchup and doesn't run up to the ledge and drop grenades 24/7.

And lastly, I think Pit vs Diddy is 6:4 Pit's favor. This is mostly because Pit excels on the ledge, and Diddy excels on the stage. Diddy can NOT go off the stage, however, Pit has a fighting chance on the stage as well, but I wouldn't reccomend going on stage.

 

[PK-ow!]

You know, if some Pit main could *explain* the discrepancy between Pit's alleged potential viz. tier positioning, and his actual performance, that person might very well earn himself some recognition in the BBR.


Just saying "But he's not working" isn't helpful.

Agreeing with the tier placement isn't helpful.


Go win games.

Or figure out why he won't.



I think his hitbox issues must be underadmitted to the BBR discussion leading to this. It's no single thing, it's just that against any particular character, he has one part of his game that doesn't work because he can't line up a box without being epically unsafe.


Still training up my Pit on the side, though.

 

[dualseeker]

Just saying "But he's not working" isn't helpful.

Agreeing with the tier placement isn't helpful.


Go win games.

Or figure out why he won't.

This would save us from arguing with each other most of the time.

Things we could do to figure out why he won't win in most match ups is helping Iris Kong make a decent Match up Thread. This way we could discuss on what works and what doesn't.