What if every third-party company got the grandest possible treatment by current standards?

[TheYungLink]

You know how Castlevania was treated EXTREMELY well?

• Two characters, Simon and Richter as an Echo Fighter
• A stage, Dracula's Castle
• 34 music tracks
• Its own item, Death's Scythe
• An Assist Trophy, Alucard
• 29 Spirits
• It's own sub map in World of Light, specifically as a sub map in the Dark World section
• Finally, its own boss, Dracula himself

This is incredible treatment for Castlevania, but that's just ONE of the series Konami has, so in addition to EVERYTHING Castlevania got, we also have Metal Gear content.

• One character, Snake
• A stage, Shadow Moses Island
• 11 music tracks
• An Assist Trophy, Gray Fox
• 26 Spirits

Lastly, we have an Assist Trophy that isn't from a playable series: Bomberman.

However, this STILL isn't the grandest possible treatment, and this is where this thread comes in:

• Both Sega and Namco have an advantage over Castlevania, in that at least one series of theirs has two separate stages: Sonic the Hedgehog has both Green Hill Zone and Windy Hill Zone, and Pac-Man has both Pac-Maze (RIP) and Pac-Land. This means that, theoretically, one of Konami's playable series should get another stage.
• Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog has two assist trophies: Shadow the Hedgehog and Knuckles the Echidna. At least one of Konami's playable series should get a second assist trophy as well.
• Sega's last advantage should be obvious: it has playable characters from 3 completely different series, now that Joker from the Sega-owned Shin Megami Tensei series is going to be in the game. Every third-party can have a maximum of 3 playable series.
  • I'm stretching the rules for Square Enix's Super Mario RPG. It's technically a Mario game, though the rights belong to them. For simplicity's sake, when considering Square Enix, if you want to include Geno, Mallow, or both, they won't count toward the 3 series rule. Basically, after making a note of which 3 SE series you want in and its Assist Trophy series, you can make a little side note saying "Oh yeah, Geno and Mallow are in, too, and Suoer Mario ROG gets a stage cuz why not amirite"
• You can argue that Pac-Man represents two things simultaneously: his own series, and Namco arcade games, since he uses Galaga's tractor beam as his grab and Mappy's trampolines as his recovery. His up taunt also references TONS of stuff Namco made, and in Ultimate it now includes two non arcade game cameos, pixel forms of Heihachi from Tekken and The Prince of All Cosmos from Katamari Damacy. All the miscellaneous Namco music that isn't Pac-Man related is still listed under the Pac-Man section in the Music Player in Smash Ultimate. As a result, I'm going to Pac-Man as an exception and say that Namco's two items, Boss Galaga and the Special Flag, despite not Pac-Man related, are part of his "series". This means one playable third party series can have two items.
  • As a side note, despite having only one playable character and a stage cut, Namco still seems to have had a grand treatment of its own, just in a very different way. However, since this exercise wouldn't be fun without limitations, all the immense amount of content from different sources that Namco has will be treated as an exception rather than the rule, so no 30 different music tracks from 30 different Capcom series or anything like that.
• Capcom has three advantages over Castlevania, here's the first one: it has a playable series with the most Spirits out of all third parties, since Mega Man has 57 Spirits. If you really want to, you can bump up one of a third party's series' Spirits up to that number. You don't have to do this if you don't care THAT much about Spirits, though, and just want to get to the other aspects of third parties.
• Capcom's second advantage is that it has a boss completely separate from its playable characters: Rathalos. It technically has its own sub map in World of Light, but he's the only Monster Hunter content in there, along with a couple of songs. It's also the Assist Trophy Capcom has that isn't from its playable series Mega Man and Street Fighter, so it pulls double duty. Each third party can have one boss, and you can make it an Assist Trophy as well if you think that's feasible.
• The third advantage is that while Castlevania has 34 music tracks, Street Fighter has 38. Each playable third party playable series can have up to 38 music tracks.

And that about covers it. Since all third-party Mii Costumes were cut, I won't be factoring them into this thread.

RULES

Here's the maximum amount of content a third party could have, and therefore here are the limitations we have to work with:

• THREE playable series with a character, stage (with up to 38 music tracks), an item, and Assist Trophy each. They can have 57 spirits each but you don't have to include / care about that if you don't want to
  • Only ONE of these playable series gets an Echo Fighter
  • Only ONE of these playable series gets a second stage
  • Only ONE of these playable series gets a second Assist Trophy
  • Only ONE of these playable series gets a second item
  • They don't ALL have to be the same series. You can make Mega Man the series with two Assist Trophies AND two stages, or you can let Mega Man keep two Assist Trophies but give Street Fighter two stages.
• ONE Assist Trophy that isn't from one of the playable series
• ONE boss, either one unique or one that doubles as an Assist Trophy. If this boss is from the non playable series, it also gets TWO music tracks
• Out of these FOUR total series each third party has, only TWO of them get World of Light sub maps. You can mix and match if you want to take the Capcom route of having one sub map from a playable series (Street Fighter) and one from the non playable series (Monster Hunter), or both from playable series
• Last rule: This thread only applies to third parties currently represented in Smash with playable series, so unless Falcom gets a character or something in the DLC, don't talk about it.

(Rules are subject to change as the Smash team decides to break any of my current rules with the DLC. For example, Capcom getting another Echo Fighter for a theoretical third playable series or something when Street Fighter already uses the Echo Fighter "slot", or Sega getting a 4th playable series somehow)

---

With that, let's kick off this thread! Bring each currently represented third party up to the gold standard defined here!

Here is all the data except for Spirits amounts for each third party, for reference, to make it easier for you all to fill in the blanks:

Konami
*One of the playable series needs 2 stages
*One of the playable series needs 2 Assist Trophies
*One of the playable series needs 2 items

Series 1: Metal Gear

• Character: Snake
• Stage: Shadow Moses Island
• Tracklist: 11 (27 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Gray Fox
• Item: ???

Series 2: Castlevania
*Echo Fighter slot taken

• Character: Simon, Richter as Echo Fighter
• Stage: Dracula's Castle
• Tracklist: 34 (4 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Alucard
• Item: Death's Scythe

Series 3: ???

• Character: ???
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Assist Trophy Series: Bomberman (Bomberman)
Boss: Dracula (Castlevania)
WoL sub map 1: Castlevania
WoL sub map 2: ???

Sega
*One of the playable series needs an Echo Fighter
*One of the playable series needs 2 items

Series 1: Sonic the Hedgehog
*2nd stage slot taken
*2nd Assist Trophy slot taken

• Character: Sonic
• Stage: Green Hill Zone / Windy Hill Zone
• Tracklist: 19 (19 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Shadow / Knuckles
• Item: ???

Series 2: Bayonetta

• Character: Bayonetta
• Stage: Umbra Clock Tower
• Tracklist: 11 (27 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Rodin
• Item: ???

Series 3: Shin Megami Tensei
[virtually unknown at this point in time, will fill out once we have all the info. However, for the time being, you can treat Joker as if only he and nothing else from SMT is included]

• Character: Joker
• Stage:
• Tracklist:
• Assist Trophy:
• Item:

Assist Trophy Series: Virtua Fighter
Boss: ???
WoL sub map 1: ???
WoL sub map 2: ???

Capcom
*One of the playable series needs 2 stages
*One of the playable series needs 2 items

Series 1: Mega Man
*2nd Assist Trophy slot taken

• Character: Mega Man
• Stage: Wily Castle
• Tracklist: 31 (7 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Wily Capsule / Zero
• Item: ???

Series 2: Street Fighter
*Echo Fighter slot taken

• Character: Ryu, Ken as Echo Fighter
• Stage: Suzaku Castle
• Tracklist: 38 (max)
• Assist Trophy: Guile
• Item: ???

Series 3: ???

• Character: ???
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Assist Trophy Series: Monster Hunter
Boss: Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
WoL sub map 1: Street Fighter
WoL sub map 2: Monster Hunter

Bandai Namco
*One of the playable series needs an Echo Fighter
*One of the playable series needs 2 Assist Trophies

Series 1: Pac-Man / misc. Namco games
*2nd stage slot taken
*2nd item slot taken

• Character: Pac-Man
• Stage: Pac-Land / Pac-Maze
• Tracklist: 11 (27 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Ghosts
• Item: Boss Galaga / Special Flag

Series 2: ???

• Character: ???
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Series 3: ???

• Character: ???
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Assist Trophy Series: ???
Boss: ???
WoL sub map 1: ???
WoL sub map 2: ???

Square Enix
*One of the playable series needs an Echo Fighter
*One of the playable series needs 2 stages
*One of the playable series needs 2 Assist Trophies
*One of the playable series needs 2 items

Series 1: Final Fantasy

• Character: Cloud
• Stage: Midgar
• Tracklist: 2 (36 missing)
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Series 2: ???

• Character: ???
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Series 3: ???

• Character: ???
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Assist Trophy Series: ???
Boss: ???
WoL sub map 1: ???
WoL sub map 2: ???

 

[DarthEnderX]

Personally, I would love it if Mega Man, Sonic, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy received:

Bass, Shadow, Liquid Snake and Zack echo fighters.
Wily Machine, Death Egg Robot, Metal Gear REX, and Safer Sephiroth boss fights.

And obviously for FF to get it's **** together in terms of music and spirits. If I had to pick an Assist Trophy I'd probably go with a Chocobo.


Personally, I don't think Pac-Man, Street Fighter or Bayonetta need anything else atm.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Sounds like the worst Smash installment ever if you ask me, but I'd go with some decent Halo representation if I could.

 

[VexTheHex]

I'd rather some Nintendo franchises get that love instead of the 3rd parties. I mean Pikmin, Punch Out, Warioware, Yoshi, and F-Zero could get a 2nd character before every third party gets flooded with love. Pikmin got practically nothing new? (even with a 4th mainline game in the pipeline)

And even LoZ, Kid icarus, and Kirby could use some love as well. Splatoon debuted for Smash just now, but even they could use love with how big it got. And ARMS. Poor ARMS.

 

[Sabertooth]

I love posts like this. So much research, work, and thought put into something that really doesn't matter at all. I love it, and you have my respect.

 

[TheYungLink]

I love posts like this. So much research, work, and thought put into something that really doesn't matter at all. I love it, and you have my respect.

Yeah I just wanted this to be a fun thought exercise.

To make it clear to anyone else, this topic is not assuming Nintendo doesn't get any further content or anything, I was just wondering the other day now that Sega has 3 characters from 3 separate series in the game, wondering how that'd look for the other third parties, and I worked from there.

I'll make a post later as a response to my own topic to get the ball rolling, I've been pretty busy today.

 

[Arthur97]

Some already seem to have it better than first party franchises.

 

[Sabertooth]

Street Fighter and Castlevania definitely got the red carpet treatment. I wish we had another Mega Man character.

 

[Arthur97]

Why did those two get treated better than others? Snake and Mega Man even have the same owners. Sega, granted, is getting a third fighter since they own Atlas, but Sonic itself didn't get as much as those two.

Perhaps Sakurai's Street Fighter days had something to do with it.

 

[Deleted member]

This sounds fun. I would really love more FF related content. Aside from Bartz being my most wanted character in the game, there's way more they could have done.
Characters I would choose are Cloud, Zack (as an echo), and Bartz.
Stages would be Midgar, Big Bridge, and for the last one... I'm not sure actually.
I won't list *every single song*, but there's a lot they could do from every FF game. Aside from just the regular battle themes and boss themes, there's also Battle with the Four Fiends from FFIV, Clash on the Big Bridge from FFV, The Fierce Battle from FFVI, and of course One Winged Angel from FFVII.
For an assist trophy I would choose a Cactuar, dashing around the stage and shooting needles in everyone's face.
Spirits could just be the more major/popular party members from FFI-FFVII. But only if Sabin is a legend class.
World of Light submap would probably be Midgar.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Yeah I'm sorry but giving third parties the royal treatment when so many third parties have been left in the dust just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

>Bandai Namco
>not taking the obvious route of adding Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo

 

[Sabertooth]

I've noticed every single third-party character has a very obvious potential echo fighter. In addition to the ones we have there's Shadow, Big Boss, Proto Man, Zack, and Jeanne all as pretty easy options. I really want Proto Man especially as he could salvage Mega Man's old custom moves. Plus I just like him...

 

[TheYungLink]

Alright, here's my contribution. All new stuff is in blue, replacing the ???s from where stuff was missing. I'm not familiar with every series so for those ones, like Metal Gear, I won't change much. Same with the music for pretty much every series.

---

Konami

Series 1: Metal Gear

• Character: Snake
• Stage: Shadow Moses Island
• Tracklist: 11 (27 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Gray Fox
• Item: ???

Series 2: Castlevania

• Character: Simon, Richter as Echo Fighter
• Stage: Dracula's Castle
• Tracklist: 34 (4 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Alucard
• Item: Death's Scythe

Series 3: Contra

• Character: Bill Rizer
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: Spread Shot

Assist Trophy Series: Bomberman (Bomberman)
Boss: Dracula (Castlevania)
WoL sub map 1: Castlevania
WoL sub map 2: Bomberman

Sega

Series 1: Sonic the Hedgehog
*2nd stage slot taken
*2nd Assist Trophy slot taken

• Character: Sonic
• Stage: Green Hill Zone / Windy Hill Zone
• Tracklist: 19 (19 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Shadow / Knuckles
• Item: That TV monitor thing that gives one of the 3 shields Sonic gets in Sonic 3

Series 2: Bayonetta

• Character: Bayonetta
• Stage: Umbra Clock Tower
• Tracklist: 11 (27 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Rodin
• Item: ???

Series 3: Shin Megami Tensei
[virtually unknown at this point in time, will fill out once we have all the info. However, for the time being, you can treat Joker as if only he and nothing else from SMT is included]
*Echo Fighter slot taken

• Character: Joker, Demi-fiend from SMT Nocturne as Echo Fighter (No idea if this is even feasible I'd just love if this happened LOL)
• Stage: Nijima's Palace
• Tracklist: 18 tracks based on Persona games (10 on Persona 5, the rest on Persona 1-4), 10 tracks on mainline SMT, 10 tracks from other SMT spin-offs like Raidou Kuzonoha and stuff
• Assist Trophy: Futaba Sakura (uses her Persona to guard against an attack that would have KO'd you)
• Item: Homonculus (equipped like a badge, guards against one attack that would have KO'd you)

Assist Trophy Series: Virtua Fighter (Akira Yuki)
Boss: YHVH (the Shin Megami Tensei version, it'll never but happen but it'd be hype LOL) or Yaldabaoth
WoL sub map 1: ???
WoL sub map 2: Shin Megami Tensei (loosely based on post apocalyptic Tokyo from SMT 1)

Capcom

Series 1: Mega Man
*2nd Assist Trophy slot taken

• Character: Mega Man
• Stage: Wily Castle
• Tracklist: 31 (7 missing)
• Assist Trophy: Wily Capsule / Zero
• Item: Beat (after holding down the jump button, Beat will fly you up for about as high as Mega Man's custom Beat special from Smash 4)

Series 2: Street Fighter
*Echo Fighter slot taken
*2nd stage slot taken

• Character: Ryu, Ken as Echo Fighter
• Stage: Suzaku Castle / Battle Harbor
• Tracklist: 38 (max)
• Assist Trophy: Guile
• Item: Ryu's Headband (an original item that lets players shoot out a Hadouken if they do the input for it)

Series 3: Resident Evil

• Character: Leon S. Kennedy
• Stage: Spencer Mansion
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: Albert Wesker
• Item: ???

Assist Trophy Series: Monster Hunter (Rathalos)
Boss: Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
WoL sub map 1: Street Fighter
WoL sub map 2: Monster Hunter

Bandai Namco

Series 1: Pac-Man / misc. Namco games
*2nd stage slot taken
*2nd item slot taken
*Echo Fighter slot taken

• Character: Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man as Echo Fighter
• Stage: Pac-Land / Pac-Maze
• Tracklist: 11 (27 missing) (a few more songs based on other Pac-Man games, then remixes / medleys of more old-school Namco games)
• Assist Trophy: Ghosts
• Item: Boss Galaga / Special Flag

Series 2: Dark Souls

• Character: Solaire
• Stage: Anor Lando
• Tracklist: Focus on Dark Souls 1, with some extra songs from Dark Souls 2 and 3
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Series 3: Xenosaga

• Character: KOS-MOS
• Stage: ???
• Tracklist: ???
• Assist Trophy: ???
• Item: ???

Assist Trophy Series: Soulcalibur (Nightmare)
Boss: Nightmare (Soulcalibur)
WoL sub map 1: Pac-Man / misc. Namco games
WoL sub map 2: Dark Souls

Square Enix
*Both Geno and Mallow are added from Super Mario RPG, as well as a stage, music, and even Smithy as a boss added. This is because they're all Mario characters so TECHNICALLY they wouldn't count as the two new series that aren't Final Fantasy
*Sora from Kingdom Hearts is added. He's technically owned by Disney and not Square Enix so he doesn't factor into the following.

Series 1: Final Fantasy
*2nd Assist Trophy slot taken

• Character: Cloud
• Stage: Midgar
• Tracklist: 2 (36 missing) (12 Final Fantasy 7 songs added, 6 Compilation of Final Fantasy 7 songs added, 18 songs from the rest of the Final Fantasy series added)
• Assist Trophy: Chocobo / Knights of the Round
• Item: Magicite (equipped like a badge, hold onto it long enough and keep landing attacks to eventually cast Ultima)

Series 2: Dragon Quest
*Echo Fighter slot taken
*2nd item slot taken
*2nd stage slot taken

• Character: Erdrick (with male and female alternate skins), Luminary (one of his alternate costumes has him wear the Dragon Quest 8 hero's clothes, as a nod to the pre-order bonus of the Western release of Dragon Quest 11) as Echo Fighter
• Stage: Tantegel Castle / a stage from Dragon Quest 11
• Tracklist: From all throughout the Dragon Quest games. If possible, all are remixes so Koichi Sugiyama doesn't get paid anything.
• Assist Trophy: Dragonlord
• Item: Cursed Weapon (very strong, but if you pick it up it slowly raises your percentage) / Ball of Light (hold it up long enough to vastly reduce the defense of nearby fighters)

Series 3: Drakengard / NieR

• Character: 2B
• Stage: City Ruins
• Tracklist: Emphasis on NieR: Automata, but songs from NieR and the Drakengard series play as well
• Assist Trophy: 9S
• Item: Iron Will

Assist Trophy Series: Mischief Makers (Marina Lightyears)
Boss: Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
WoL sub map 1: Final Fantasy (Gaia in Final Fantasy 7)
WoL sub map 2: Dragon Quest (based on Alefgard from the original trilogy)

 

[Idon]

Demi-fiend from SMT Nocturne as Echo Fighter (No idea if this is even feasible I'd just love if this happened LOL)

Okay, now, FIRST OF ALL-

 

[TheYungLink]

Kazuya from SMT 1 would probably work better tbh. Joker most likely summons Personas from his face (that mask of his), which Kazuya could do with the COMP he wears on his head and arm, and both Joker and Kazuya wield both blades and guns. Demi-fiend wields no weapons and doesn't "store" his demons anywhere.

I just put Demi-fiend cuz I knew you'd respond with a "wut" reaction, but also partly cuz I do like Nocturne the best and would love him in Smash.

 

[Idon]

Kazuya from SMT 1 would probably work better tbh. Joker most likely summons Personas from his face (that mask of his), which Kazuya could do with the COMP he wears on his head and arm, and both Joker and Kazuya wield both blades and guns. Demi-fiend wields no weapons and doesn't "store" his demons anywhere.

I just put Demi-fiend cuz I knew you'd respond with a "wut" reaction, but also partly cuz I do like Nocturne the best and would love him in Smash.

Nah fam.
You need a
Suave rogue
Clad in black and stylish as hell
A gun
A blade
And and a cool red stand
You got Raidou

Only big change he would need is a wakizashi instead of a katana and lightning instead pf dark.

 

[Marmotbro]

the only thing that would make me incredibly happy was if snake got Plisskin, Naked Snake, Old Snake as skins, and maybe Venom Snake as an echo or a skin. That's really all I want. And more metal gear music.