What has Nintendo done to upset you?

[FallenHero]

When Nintendo made the Wii that was the point where they stopped caring about Nintendo fans. The Wii was made for a demographic of casual gamers and people who are just looking for games to play at a party, and they were successful at doing that. Even though the Wii was very successful, it obviously had a lot of casual games on it, which a lot of the more hardcore gamers were not into. The Wii U was obviously intended for the same demographic as the Wii, but they royally screwed up the marketing for the Wii U (most problems with marketing came from the console's name alone) so a lot of people from that demographic did not buy the Wii U, leaving most of the people who bought the system being the few hardcore Nintendo fans. After the first year or two of the Wii U being out; Nintendo finally got back to making games for Nintendo fans, though they don't seem to know what fans want.

Nintendo's evil Youtube copyright policies also further show how out of touch they are with not only their own fans, but the age of the internet as a whole.

 

[TK8305]

Not enough new Kirby games! xD

Seriously Rainbow Curse for the Wii U? How about Return to Dreamland 2? Planet Robobot on the 3ds though I'm looking forward to! :3

 

[LancerStaff]

Oh, you mean it wasn't already? Playing through the game already, I find that hard to believe.

It has a similar art style and the overall story's mostly the same, but the gameplay is vastly different because you're not forced to fly where you aim and what you do on the planets is completely different.

See, this is what Miamoto's talking about with the control thing with F-Zero. People didn't buy GX the first time around, and GX with different tracks isn't going to sell any better regardless of how you change out the graphics and story. Even if they did just make GX for the Wii U it'd be a step backwards because the normal Wii U controllers lacks analogue triggers.

People want more of the same, but different with basically every game series. Most notable example of Nintendo doing this is the 3D Marios. 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2, and the 3DX games all feel different on the fundamental level even though they're the same series.

When Nintendo made the Wii that was the point where they stopped caring about Nintendo fans. The Wii was made for a demographic of casual gamers and people who are just looking for games to play at a party, and they were successful at doing that. Even though the Wii was very successful, it obviously had a lot of casual games on it, which a lot of the more hardcore gamers were not into. The Wii U was obviously intended for the same demographic as the Wii, but they royally screwed up the marketing for the Wii U (most problems with marketing came from the console's name alone) so a lot of people from that demographic did not buy the Wii U, leaving most of the people who bought the system being the few hardcore Nintendo fans. After the first year or two of the Wii U being out; Nintendo finally got back to making games for Nintendo fans, though they don't seem to know what fans want.

Nintendo's evil Youtube copyright policies also further show how out of touch they are with not only their own fans, but the age of the internet as a whole.

This is the "what has Nintendo done to upset you" topic, not "blind Nintendo hate" topic. You could argue Nintendo abandoned it's true fans with the release of any system... Nintendo's been going for the casual market since day one with Duck Hunt and ROB. The Duck Hunt/SMB cart is to the NES as what Wii Sports was to the Wii; Casual fodder. Nintendo's been dumbing down the difficultly since SMB3, and SMW is by far the easiest Mario game to date. Nintendo's been pushing silly gimmicks since the beginning with the Zapper and later the Virtual Boy. Nintendo's third-party support and relations was ruined by the N64 and Nintendo's moronic policies at the time. Nintendo gave up on giving Mario games a proper story starting with the second game, Lost Levels, and was screamed at for trying to be "modern" with SMS's voice acting and cutscenes.

Nintendo's been "betraying" it's fans since before most of them were born. Hell, they've been doing it since before the NES when they changed markets any number of times. They're a business- they're in it to make money. Why didn't you expect them to "sell out?"

It seems there may be justification to the dumb Youtube policies, even... I was told they were abating Japanese copyright laws.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

It has a similar art style and the overall story's mostly the same, but the gameplay is vastly different because you're not forced to fly where you aim and what you do on the planets is completely different.

I've played the game already, it does not feel vastly different in terms of gameplay even with the motion controls. What you're talking about is just a different type of control, not necessarily a gameplay change. The Arwing still controls like an Arwing, the Landmaster feels very much like its classic form and in a sense the Arwing's walker form controls much like the Landmaster. The only arguable gameplay change I've known so far is the stealth/hacking missions with the Gyrowing. That aside, the game plays very much like SF64, just with added motion controls. And as for doing different things on the various planets as opposed to 64, that isn't really a gameplay change. A reboot doesn't have to be a 1:1 copy of the original, so certain scenarios and objectives may change in the various locations as opposed to the original, but that's to be expected. You're still progressing through the Lylat System in a very similar fashion to 64.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've played the game already, it does not feel vastly different in terms of gameplay even with the motion controls. What you're talking about is just a different type of control, not a gameplay change. The Arwing still controls like an Arwing, the Landmaster feels very much like its classic form and in a sense the Arwing's walker form controls much like the Landmaster. The only arguable gameplay change I've known so far is the stealth/hacking missions with the Gyrowing. That aside, the game plays very much like SF64, just with added motion controls. And as for doing different things on the various planets as opposed to 64, that isn't really a gameplay change. A reboot doesn't have to be a 1:1 copy of the original, so certain scenarios and objectives may change in the various locations as opposed to the original, but that's to be expected. You're still progressing through the Lylat System in a very similar fashion to 64.

I've beaten the game 100% already plus tons of arcade mode and it just isn't the same. Starfox with and without the motion controls is comparable to Mario with and without a run button. Nearly everything changes and can be handled differently. Yeah, you can do stuff without the new thing, but why bother doing it the old way when the new way is better? Imagine how easy the Andross fight in 64 would be with motion controls... And try beating any boss in Zero without motion controls, especially Aquarosa.

Yeah, it's a reboot. Wasn't saying otherwise. But it's not 99% the same game when even something as basic as chasing down enemy swarms is handled differently.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Starfox with and without the motion controls is comparable to Mario with and without a run button.

More like Metroid Prime with and without motion control(Corruption did this).

Yeah, you can do stuff without the new thing, but why bother doing it the old way when the new way is better?

Maybe because the old way felt much more comfortable instead of waving around a big, clunky controller like a dumb***?

Imagine how easy the Andross fight in 64 would be with motion controls...

It was already easy....WITHOUT motion control.

And try beating any boss in Zero without motion controls, especially Aquarosa.

I'd like to think I'm skilled enough to do it. But not that it matters, I can't play the game precisely the way I want to anyway, not with the way they've got it set up.

 

[1amayzingman]

delayed Zelda Wii U, ARE YOU'LL KIDDING ME, GOT DAMN IT

 

[LancerStaff]

More like Metroid Prime with and without motion control(Corruption did this).


Maybe because the old way felt much more comfortable instead of waving around a big, clunky controller like a dumb***?


It was already easy....WITHOUT motion control.


I'd like to think I'm skilled enough to do it. But not that it matters, I can't play the game precisely the way I want to anyway, not with the way they've got it set up.

Motion controls were only a major improvement to Prime because the GC controls were god-awful. Still would be better then anything a GC controller could do either way, but MP3 wouldn't be impossible to adapt to a GC controller.

You're already a dweeb for playing the flying space furry game. Holding a controller up has little to do with what people think of you at that point... Not once have I felt uncomfortable or overly tired playing a game with motion controls. Or any game for that matter. The only downside to motion controls is that people whine about them for little to no reason... All the good Splatoon players play with motion controls because they're superior, same with Kid Icarus and Metroid Prime Hunters with their stylus controls. Dual stick aiming is trash.

Every boss was easy in 64, even on expert. Andross goes from easy to literally free with motion controls.

No game lets you play precisely how you want. Can't play 64 at a high level without holding the dumb 64 controller with a clawgrip... Even if you could rebind all your inputs in a game you can't just say screw it and fly through every obstacle whenever you want.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Motion controls were only a major improvement to Prime because the GC controls were god-awful. Still would be better then anything a GC controller could do either way, but MP3 wouldn't be impossible to adapt to a GC controller.

Coming from years of playing the first 2 games, I can confidently say the GCN controls were fine as they were. There wasn't really anything bad about them. Not to say there was anything bad about MP3's control scheme, I had no problem using a pointer for a Prime game.

You're already a dweeb for playing the flying space furry game. Holding a controller up has little to do with what people think of you at that point... Not once have I felt uncomfortable or overly tired playing a game with motion controls. Or any game for that matter. The only downside to motion controls is that people whine about them for little to no reason... All the good Splatoon players play with motion controls because they're superior, same with Kid Icarus and Metroid Prime Hunters with their stylus controls. Dual stick aiming is trash.

And what does this have to do with me not liking the control scheme that Nintendo chose? When I first played the game, it felt almost as if I had to relearn how to play a Starfox game because Nintendo was so feverishly focused on making motion controls mandatory, when I already knew how to play Starfox with previous control schemes that felt much more natural than what we have now. I mean, where are the options? Why lock players into one control scheme? The controls are functional, yes, but it's not the type of control that I'm comfortable with.

I don't have Splatoon, so I don't know how people play the game.

I can admit that dual sticks is generally the worst method when you want to shoot stuff, but I seem to recall my Assault days, in which I used the dual stick control, specifically for ground/Landmaster combat. Ironically, I had almost no issue playing the game with that setup. A little less precise, maybe, but it worked fine for what I needed.

Every boss was easy in 64, even on expert. Andross goes from easy to literally free with motion controls.

Ok, so we don't need the motion control then. All it does is take the challenge away. Starfox is supposed to test your skill as a dogfighter, not become a point-and-shoot game.

No game lets you play precisely how you want. Can't play 64 at a high level without holding the dumb 64 controller with a clawgrip... Even if you could rebind all your inputs in a game you can't just say screw it and fly through every obstacle whenever you want.

Dude, I was playing SF64 back in the day with that weird as hell controller and was able to breeze through the game with relative ease, and as a 9-year old, but I suppose that wasn't the true challenge of the game. The 64 controller gets a lot of flak for being weird, but it's not a bad controller. It's just that it had a glaring weakness: the control stick. And I think you missed the point of my earlier post. I want to play SFZ with a control scheme that feels natural to me, something that I KNOW has worked for Starfox.

 

[FallenHero]

This is the "what has Nintendo done to upset you" topic, not "blind Nintendo hate" topic.

lol okay. I don't see how I am blindly hating on Nintendo, I really want Nintendo to be successful again, but they fail to understand that what made them successful back in the day is not going to work now.

Nintendo's been going for the casual market since day one with Duck Hunt and ROB. The Duck Hunt/SMB cart is to the NES as what Wii Sports was to the Wii; Casual fodder.

The thing is that they were going for the casual market in the NES days before they even really had a fan base. They made games for a casual audience and eventually built up a fan base who loved the games that they made. Wii Sports was fine because it comes free with the Wii, but the way that the console was designed in general would be a turn off for someone who would just like to play the new Mario or Zelda game without motion controls. The Wii was successful, but it tried to hard to build up a new fan base and ended up abandoning the fans they already had. The Wii U then failed to keep the new fan base that they built up with the Wii, leading to how Nintendo is now.

Nintendo's been pushing silly gimmicks since the beginning with the Zapper and later the Virtual Boy.

Yes, but the problem is that Nintendo doesn't realize that these gimmicks don't really work anymore. It worked with the Wii because it was properly marketed, but the PS3 and Xbox 360 just ended being better consoles by pretty much topping the Wii on pretty much everything other than sales. Smartphones also came along, pretty much causing the majority of the Wii's market to just move on to mobile games. Many people liked the idea of motion controls, but ended up not liking them in comparison to just using buttons.

It seems there may be justification to the dumb Youtube policies, even... I was told they were abating Japanese copyright laws.

I never heard anything about this. You mind telling me just what Japanese copyright laws were being violated if they told you which ones? Other Japanese game companies seem to understand that people making videos playing their games is pretty much free advertising.

 

[Iceweasel]

The Wii U was obviously intended for the same demographic as the Wii, but they royally screwed up the marketing for the Wii U (most problems with marketing came from the console's name alone) so a lot of people from that demographic did not buy the Wii U, leaving most of the people who bought the system being the few hardcore Nintendo fans. After the first year or two of the Wii U being out; Nintendo finally got back to making games for Nintendo fans, though they don't seem to know what fans want.

I'm not sure if I've posted this yet, but maybe it needs posting again. It's unconfirmed and has a lot of "my dad works at Nintendo", but it does explain a lot of things. Take it for what it is, with a massive grain of salt.

Here we go again.


>people thinking it's SJWs at it again


There's more to it than that. Let's go back in time, to shortly after the Wii launch. Nintendo is at the top again thanks to their new strategy of targeting the casual market. Of course we all know that this wouldn't last, and eventually the Wii would begin to crash in it's final years. The audience it brought in began to move over to smartphone games.


Nintendo of Japan realized this, and made the bold choice to go back to the enthusiast market. Trying to jump into the mobile market would require too much restructuring and money, and would weaken the Nintendo brand. This is also why NoJ went all out on hiring platinium and other third party developers to make games on the system.


Nintendo of America, on the other hand, is running a completely different playbook. They think there's still a chance to reclaim the Wii audience. They want that family friendly casual image to be maintained. That means nothing but casual games, party games, and the Nintendo icons of Mario, Link, Kirby, etc.


This split is casing a huge internal war between the executives and investors between the 2 branches. It's also why it's been such a huge struggle to get certain games to release outside of Japan. NoA doesn't want these games to taint their image, nor do they want them since it's not the audience they want. And when NoJ does pressure them into localizing them, they cut them down drastically to make them as uncontroversial as possible. The audience they want is full of soccor moms who get offended at the slightest thing after that. The SJW localization teams think they're revolutionary heroes saving the masses from problematic content, but really they're just doing what the NoA team wants in the first place.


This is also extremely frustrating for NoA, since they can't hire out any developers to create games they want. They aren't allowed to hire out developers to make their own projects, and NoJ controls all second and third parties. Even Retro, Nintendo's biggest non-jp second party, answers to NoJ.


Nobody talks about this, since if anyone goes public it would be a disaster for the company. But the damage has already started. It's fairly well known among the other publishers that there is an internal conflict going on at Nintendo. For that reason alone, they're staying far away from the NX, since Nintendo could enter a crisis any minute now.


Some of you might remember that Sega went through this near the end of their console days. One could hope Nintendo learned from their mistakes, and gets their **** in order fast.

 

[FallenHero]

I'm not sure if I've posted this yet, but maybe it needs posting again. It's unconfirmed and has a lot of "my dad works at Nintendo", but it does explain a lot of things. Take it for what it is, with a massive grain of salt.

Here we go again.


>people thinking it's SJWs at it again


There's more to it than that. Let's go back in time, to shortly after the Wii launch. Nintendo is at the top again thanks to their new strategy of targeting the casual market. Of course we all know that this wouldn't last, and eventually the Wii would begin to crash in it's final years. The audience it brought in began to move over to smartphone games.


Nintendo of Japan realized this, and made the bold choice to go back to the enthusiast market. Trying to jump into the mobile market would require too much restructuring and money, and would weaken the Nintendo brand. This is also why NoJ went all out on hiring platinium and other third party developers to make games on the system.


Nintendo of America, on the other hand, is running a completely different playbook. They think there's still a chance to reclaim the Wii audience. They want that family friendly casual image to be maintained. That means nothing but casual games, party games, and the Nintendo icons of Mario, Link, Kirby, etc.


This split is casing a huge internal war between the executives and investors between the 2 branches. It's also why it's been such a huge struggle to get certain games to release outside of Japan. NoA doesn't want these games to taint their image, nor do they want them since it's not the audience they want. And when NoJ does pressure them into localizing them, they cut them down drastically to make them as uncontroversial as possible. The audience they want is full of soccor moms who get offended at the slightest thing after that. The SJW localization teams think they're revolutionary heroes saving the masses from problematic content, but really they're just doing what the NoA team wants in the first place.


This is also extremely frustrating for NoA, since they can't hire out any developers to create games they want. They aren't allowed to hire out developers to make their own projects, and NoJ controls all second and third parties. Even Retro, Nintendo's biggest non-jp second party, answers to NoJ.


Nobody talks about this, since if anyone goes public it would be a disaster for the company. But the damage has already started. It's fairly well known among the other publishers that there is an internal conflict going on at Nintendo. For that reason alone, they're staying far away from the NX, since Nintendo could enter a crisis any minute now.


Some of you might remember that Sega went through this near the end of their console days. One could hope Nintendo learned from their mistakes, and gets their **** in order fast.

This is very interesting considering that I always thought a lot of the problems that Nintendo has are caused by NoJ, but this seems to suggest it is NoA. Where did you get this information from though? Even if it is unconfirmed I can definitely see this being true.

 

[LancerStaff]

Coming from years of playing the first 2 games, I can confidently say the GCN controls were fine as they were. There wasn't really anything bad about them. Not to say there was anything bad about MP3's control scheme, I had no problem using a pointer for a Prime game.


And what does this have to do with me not liking the control scheme that Nintendo chose? When I first played the game, it felt almost as if I had to relearn how to play a Starfox game because Nintendo was so feverishly focused on making motion controls mandatory, when I already knew how to play Starfox with previous control schemes that felt much more natural than what we have now. I mean, where are the options? Why lock players into one control scheme? The controls are functional, yes, but it's not the type of control that I'm comfortable with.

I don't have Splatoon, so I don't know how people play the game.

I can admit that dual sticks is generally the worst method when you want to shoot stuff, but I seem to recall my Assault days, in which I used the dual stick control, specifically for ground/Landmaster combat. Ironically, I had almost no issue playing the game with that setup. A little less precise, maybe, but it worked fine for what I needed.


Ok, so we don't need the motion control then. All it does is take the challenge away. Starfox is supposed to test your skill as a dogfighter, not become a point-and-shoot game.


Dude, I was playing SF64 back in the day with that weird as hell controller and was able to breeze through the game with relative ease, and as a 9-year old, but I suppose that wasn't the true challenge of the game. The 64 controller gets a lot of flak for being weird, but it's not a bad controller. It's just that it had a glaring weakness: the control stick. And I think you missed the point of my earlier post. I want to play SFZ with a control scheme that feels natural to me, something that I KNOW has worked for Starfox.

Really? I remember renting Prime and returning it before it was even due. The controls were dumb and clunky. Worst controls in a 3D game I've ever played, though I turned down the opportunity to play Bubsy 3D...

The motion controls are forced because the gameplay in SF0 relies on them. It's comparable to people complaining about the Flashfield being used in every situation with Gunvolt... What happens when you take away the Flashfield? You can't even beat the first level because you can't power the elevator. They don't let you disable the ability to aim freely because many bosses, such as Andross, basically require them. Unless you want fly around awkwardly in a tight space and have him rip your wings off.

People play Splatoon almost exclusively with the motion controls even though they can be freely disabled or ignored. Casuals, S+ rankers, speedrunners... They'll all tell you that the gyro is as close as you can get to a mouse. The joke is that if voice chat were a thing then everybody would be complaining about the guy who's trying to play with twin sticks.

Assault's controls were only tolerable because you've got this giant auto-aim box thing in the middle of the screen.

Who are you fooling? I've already said that SF0 accommodates for the improved control over the game. The game is harder because it's built around the fact that you can freely aim.

Like, really, the bosses are that much better in Zero. In 64 either they'd just sit there and be shot at while you occasionally dodge an attack. How fast you beat a boss had more to do with what lasers/# of bombs you had then some type of skill with actually dealing with the boss... Meanwhile in Zero, not only have they tightened the windows for obtaining the most points you can from a boss, they've made time a legitimate goal for medals and in the arcade mode. Just about anybody can kill 64's assault carrier while it only opens three times, meanwhile just beating Aquarosa and beating Aquarosa fast is quite the big skill difference. The bosses are in the same spot in both games; An alternate route from the first stage.

I was so good at the game that I reached a point where due to some byte thing my higher scores went below the lower ones. Just beating the game was literal child's play. To get numbers that high you have to brake everywhere and CUS nearly everything... Imagine having to hold the shoulder buttons the entire game while constantly hitting the brakes and shooting charge shots. Not fun with the 64 button layout... Legit I'd buy 64HD even after 643D if it ment having Zero's controls sans free aiming.

lol okay. I don't see how I am blindly hating on Nintendo, I really want Nintendo to be successful again, but they fail to understand that what made them successful back in the day is not going to work now.



The thing is that they were going for the casual market in the NES days before they even really had a fan base. They made games for a casual audience and eventually built up a fan base who loved the games that they made. Wii Sports was fine because it comes free with the Wii, but the way that the console was designed in general would be a turn off for someone who would just like to play the new Mario or Zelda game without motion controls. The Wii was successful, but it tried to hard to build up a new fan base and ended up abandoning the fans they already had. The Wii U then failed to keep the new fan base that they built up with the Wii, leading to how Nintendo is now.



Yes, but the problem is that Nintendo doesn't realize that these gimmicks don't really work anymore. It worked with the Wii because it was properly marketed, but the PS3 and Xbox 360 just ended being better consoles by pretty much topping the Wii on pretty much everything other than sales. Smartphones also came along, pretty much causing the majority of the Wii's market to just move on to mobile games. Many people liked the idea of motion controls, but ended up not liking them in comparison to just using buttons.



I never heard anything about this. You mind telling me just what Japanese copyright laws were being violated if they told you which ones? Other Japanese game companies seem to understand that people making videos playing their games is pretty much free advertising.

Motion controls aren't inherently bad and you've failed to explain how Nintendo's abandoned anybody but yourself with them.

And gimmick consoles have always sold the best. Ask the DVD playe- I mean PS2. The PS4 and XBONE are also targeting casuals with a gimmick, and that gimmick is being a multimedia box. Not as casual as Wii buyers but casuals nonetheless. The Wii U didn't fail because it's gimmick wasn't focused on enough, it's just that people didn't care about this particular gimmick. Casuals win the console wars, not hardcores. Didn't take as much to lure in casuals back then, yaknow... Back when the graphical jumps were significant they made for a good selling point.

I was told other Japanese companies were making similar strikes... I should find that article again.

 

[Iceweasel]

This is very interesting considering that I always thought a lot of the problems that Nintendo has are caused by NoJ, but this seems to suggest it is NoA. Where did you get this information from though? Even if it is unconfirmed I can definitely see this being true.

It was on 8chan's /v/ (it's written like pasta, but it may be OC) around the time of the Xenoblade X localization ****storm. Or maybe it was the Fatal Frame localization ****storm? I don't think it was during the Fire Emblem localization ****storm.

Screw you and your "localizations", NoA.

 

[FallenHero]

Motion controls aren't inherently bad and you've failed to explain how Nintendo's abandoned anybody but yourself with them.

I never claimed they are inherently bad, I just said that people ended up not liking it after they tried it. I thought this was supposed to be an opinion thread, not a discussion thread. They abandoned Nintendo fans because during the Wii's entire life span, most of the games put out on it were made for casuals. Sure they released Mario games and Zelda games that Nintendo fans would like, but let's not forget games like Wii Music or Wii Sports resort. There even more casual games on the Wii like Just Dance and all of those video games of game shows put out by third party developers. The Wii's library of games was like 95% casual games and 5% other.

And gimmick consoles have always sold the best.

Did I not mention previously that this doesn't really work anymore? Most casuals could not care less what new gimmick they come up with for consoles anymore because that whole crowd moved on to smartphones.

The PS4 and XBONE are also targeting casuals with a gimmick, and that gimmick is being a multimedia box.

lol who actually buys the PS4 and XBox One for really anything other than games. When the XBox One was first revealed, the internet just nodded it's head in shame because all they really talked about was DRM and how you could watch TV on it. The only people buying these consoles because they are a multimedia box were probably buying it for someone who just wanted it for the games anyways.

Casuals win the console wars, not hardcores.

It was definitely true before smartphones, but now I am not so sure this is still true.

Didn't take as much to lure in casuals back then, yaknow... Back when the graphical jumps were significant they made for a good selling point.

lol graphical jumps were a good selling point for everyone, not just casuals. A lot of the hardcores would also use graphical jumps to try to argue that their console is better than the other ones.

It was on 8chan's /v/ (it's written like pasta, but it may be OC) around the time of the Xenoblade X localization ****storm. Or maybe it was the Fatal Frame localization ****storm? I don't think it was during the Fire Emblem localization ****storm.

Screw you and your "localizations", NoA.

I don't remember what the Fatal Frame localization was, but to be fair what they censored in the other two games kind of deserved to be. I get that it is Japan, but having a 13 year old girl dressed in really skimpy clothing just seems really ****ed up and just weird, even for Japan. The waifu petting simulator feature in FE:Fates just seems like a really pointless, dumb, and downright creepy feature that should not have even been in the game in the first place.

 

[LancerStaff]

I never claimed they are inherently bad, I just said that people ended up not liking it after they tried it. I thought this was supposed to be an opinion thread, not a discussion thread. They abandoned Nintendo fans because during the Wii's entire life span, most of the games put out on it were made for casuals. Sure they released Mario games and Zelda games that Nintendo fans would like, but let's not forget games like Wii Music or Wii Sports resort. There even more casual games on the Wii like Just Dance and all of those video games of game shows put out by third party developers. The Wii's library of games was like 95% casual games and 5% other.



Did I not mention previously that this doesn't really work anymore? Most casuals could not care less what new gimmick they come up with for consoles anymore because that whole crowd moved on to smartphones.



lol who actually buys the PS4 and XBox One for really anything other than games. When the XBox One was first revealed, the internet just nodded it's head in shame because all they really talked about was DRM and how you could watch TV on it. The only people buying these consoles because they are a multimedia box were probably buying it for someone who just wanted it for the games anyways.



It was definitely true before smartphones, but now I am not so sure this is still true.



lol graphical jumps were a good selling point for everyone, not just casuals. A lot of the hardcores would also use graphical jumps to try to argue that their console is better than the other ones.

Nintendo's always made casual games. Mario Party is one of the most blatantly casual Nintendo games to exist and it got it's start on the 64. Same with Animal Crossing. Super Mario World is so easy I've seen six-year-olds beat it... Kirby pioneered the whole "anybody can beat it but only a few can 100% it" thing back on the NES that's been Nintendo's MO since the 64. Casual games have always been there. They've betrayed nobody but those who had unrealistic expectations.

It does because people are buying XBONE and PS4 because they play Netflix and Blue-rays, with gaming being a side thing for the kids/husband to enjoy. People are getting far more use out of their video game systems for watching TV then actually gaming.

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't remember what the Fatal Frame localization was, but to be fair what they censored in the other two games kind of deserved to be. I get that it is Japan, but having a 13 year old girl dressed in really skimpy clothing just seems really ****ed up and just weird, even for Japan. The waifu petting simulator feature in FE:Fates just seems like a really pointless, dumb, and downright creepy feature that should not have even been in the game in the first place.

I don't follow Fatal Frame, but I've heard from people who do that the attire is character/plot relevant. Except the bonus costumes, but the player has to choose to put those on.

The petting thing in FE:if is one of the many things that were changed for no reason. Hell, there are tweets from people working in the Treeouse on FE:if where they say how they don't know any Japanese (ummm... what?) and how glad they are that their position allows them to remove "problematic" elements from games. "Waifu petting simulator" is censorship apologist for "take everything out of my games that has the potential to offend someone, somewhere. Hooray for cultural authoritarians!"

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Really? I remember renting Prime and returning it before it was even due. The controls were dumb and clunky. Worst controls in a 3D game I've ever played, though I turned down the opportunity to play Bubsy 3D...

Different people respond to the controls in different ways. The Prime games are among my favorites from the GCN era. And just to be clear, the GCN controller is my all time favorite controller in the history of gaming, and it's not likely to change anytime soon.

The motion controls are forced because the gameplay in SF0 relies on them. It's comparable to people complaining about the Flashfield being used in every situation with Gunvolt... What happens when you take away the Flashfield? You can't even beat the first level because you can't power the elevator. They don't let you disable the ability to aim freely because many bosses, such as Andross, basically require them. Unless you want fly around awkwardly in a tight space and have him rip your wings off.

Give me Assault's ground controls and I'm sure I'd be able take Andross on with relative ease. Well, as a boss, Andross isn't even really difficult to begin with. Aquarosa might be a different story though. This is just wishful thinking though, it's not like I'll ever know for sure. But I really would like to know one thing: If Nintendo was so adamant about making motion controls integral to the game, why choose only the Gamepad? The Wii Remote/Nunchuk exists as well, and I'm pretty sure it's already well-equipped for SFZ's controls, minus the two screen thing that is. Unless there are controls I'm forgetting about.

People play Splatoon almost exclusively with the motion controls even though they can be freely disabled or ignored. Casuals, S+ rankers, speedrunners... They'll all tell you that the gyro is as close as you can get to a mouse. The joke is that if voice chat were a thing then everybody would be complaining about the guy who's trying to play with twin sticks.

I'll just have to take your word for it.

Assault's controls were only tolerable because you've got this giant auto-aim box thing in the middle of the screen.

Whatever the case, I just liked the controls of the game.

Who are you fooling? I've already said that SF0 accommodates for the improved control over the game. The game is harder because it's built around the fact that you can freely aim.

Maybe so, but who said anything about utilizing a gimmick just to balance out the difficulty? I mean, they didn't HAVE to design the game that way. I don't think there was anything wrong with what we had previously.

I was so good at the game that I reached a point where due to some byte thing my higher scores went below the lower ones. Just beating the game was literal child's play. To get numbers that high you have to brake everywhere and CUS nearly everything... Imagine having to hold the shoulder buttons the entire game while constantly hitting the brakes and shooting charge shots. Not fun with the 64 button layout... Legit I'd buy 64HD even after 643D if it ment having Zero's controls sans free aiming.

Ok, so you think the 64 controller is uncomfortable. Fair enough.

 

[FallenHero]

I don't follow Fatal Frame, but I've heard from people who do that the attire is character/plot relevant. Except the bonus costumes, but the player has to choose to put those on.

The petting thing in FE:if is one of the many things that were changed for no reason. Hell, there are tweets from people working in the Treeouse on FE:if where they say how they don't know any Japanese (ummm... what?) and how glad they are that their position allows them to remove "problematic" elements from games. "Waifu petting simulator" is censorship apologist for "take everything out of my games that has the potential to offend someone, somewhere. Hooray for cultural authoritarians!"

Are you really going to call me a censorship apologist after we were having a civil discussion? I don't really think that the feature should have been censored, I just think it is pointless and creepy. I don't actually care that much about the feature being in the game or not other than just finding it pointless and creepy. I don't know why you just immediately have a knee-jerk reaction to me calling it a "waifu petting simulator".

Nintendo's always made casual games. Mario Party is one of the most blatantly casual Nintendo games to exist and it got it's start on the 64. Same with Animal Crossing. Super Mario World is so easy I've seen six-year-olds beat it... Kirby pioneered the whole "anybody can beat it but only a few can 100% it" thing back on the NES that's been Nintendo's MO since the 64. Casual games have always been there. They've betrayed nobody but those who had unrealistic expectations.

Fair enough, but the only expectations I really have from Nintendo is that they will make a good game and that they will listen to the fans. They are not really doing that well of a job at doing the latter.

It does because people are buying XBONE and PS4 because they play Netflix and Blue-rays, with gaming being a side thing for the kids/husband to enjoy. People are getting far more use out of their video game systems for watching TV then actually gaming.

A majority of the people I know have it the other way around. They buy the console for the games and the rest is just a side thing. Most of the time they even just watch Netflix on a laptop when they are not watching with multiple people. It is definitely true, but even if the PS4 and XBONE just played games they would probably sell about the same.

 

[Stick Dude]

It pissed me off that Yoshi's Woolly World came out late in the US for no good reason.

 

[LancerStaff]

Give me Assault's ground controls and I'm sure I'd be able take Andross on with relative ease. Well, as a boss, Andross isn't even really difficult to begin with. Aquarosa might be a different story though. This is just wishful thinking though, it's not like I'll ever know for sure. But I really would like to know one thing: If Nintendo was so adamant about making motion controls integral to the game, why choose only the Gamepad? The Wii Remote/Nunchuk exists as well, and I'm pretty sure it's already well-equipped for SFZ's controls, minus the two screen thing that is. Unless there are controls I'm forgetting about.


I'll just have to take your word for it.


Whatever the case, I just liked the controls of the game.


Maybe so, but who said anything about utilizing a gimmick just to balance out the difficulty? I mean, they didn't HAVE to design the game that way. I don't think there was anything wrong with what we had previously.


Ok, so you think the 64 controller is uncomfortable. Fair enough.

Well for one SF0 was supposed to be the full game that required gamepad for a better reason then just cuz. You could emulate the gameplay of Splatoon and the interface of Mario Maker with "normal" controls though not as well as the gamepad could... Technically you could with SF0 too but the end result would be much more complex then what we have now.

Even if the Wiimote + Nunchuck could emulate everything else perfectly you'd still be missing out. As soon as you aim so far you'd either lose track of where you're aiming or where you're shooting without a second screen, unless you severely limited the angle you could aim at.

What's wrong with the old way, eh? What's wrong with the new way? New games are supposed to improve on the old, not just copy/paste everything over. For example, besides the glaring omission of the ability to crouch and shoot, nothing was inherently wrong with how the original Metroid controlled. But with the addition of the shoulder buttons you had more control over the direction Samus aimed at in Super. In both Metroid and in Starfox you're sacrificing simplicity for control, and there's no inherent right answer to this problem. In the eyes of most, the improved control is more valuable then the simplicity.

Fair enough, but the only expectations I really have from Nintendo is that they will make a good game and that they will listen to the fans. They are not really doing that well of a job at doing the latter.

A majority of the people I know have it the other way around. They buy the console for the games and the rest is just a side thing. Most of the time they even just watch Netflix on a laptop when they are not watching with multiple people. It is definitely true, but even if the PS4 and XBONE just played games they would probably sell about the same.

I don't think they were listening to the fans when they went with carts over disks on the N64 and told Square to **** off. They didn't even have a good way to listen until practically the GC era, and again they never really listened when it came to major business decisions. When it comes to fixing up gameplay stuff they've been doing really well more recently. Biggest problem with TTYD for example was the backtracking, and SPM did everything it could to prevent that from being a problem again with the return pipe and the level select.

Data says otherwise... The minor incentive is the gaming nowadays, and the sales wouldn't be comparable. The gimmick wins.

 

[Zzuxon]

Probably beating a dead horse here, but Color Splash isn't just bad, it's a spit in the face.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

What's wrong with the old way, eh? What's wrong with the new way? New games are supposed to improve on the old, not just copy/paste everything over. For example, besides the glaring omission of the ability to crouch and shoot, nothing was inherently wrong with how the original Metroid controlled. But with the addition of the shoulder buttons you had more control over the direction Samus aimed at in Super. In both Metroid and in Starfox you're sacrificing simplicity for control, and there's no inherent right answer to this problem. In the eyes of most, the improved control is more valuable then the simplicity.

The new way (talking strictly about SFZ)just feels overly gimmicky for my tastes. As they are the controls work as intended, I can admit that, but to me it feels as if the "improved" control is exerting too much influence on the design of the game rather than the controls being designed around the game. To me, part of the fun in Starfox was the dogfighting aspect in the truest sense, not flying past your target just blasting them from the side. What's next? An R2 unit with a 1911 strapped to your cockpit pulling a drive-by? Where's the fun in that (as hilarious as that might be)?

Jokes aside, the controls work and I can play the game just fine, they just aren't my style. I'm pretty rigid when it comes to my control preferences.

And I'm not sure it's entirely fair to compare SFZ to the evolution of Metroid games, there's a clear difference between the two. SFZ is a game that has an ever-present gimmick attached to it, making the game revolve around the controls. Super Metroid on the other hand is as classic as classic gets, no gimmicks whatsoever. While they both have improved control over their predecessors, they both have their specific logic.

 

[LeifEriksson]

I really liked Star Fox Zero and it's controls...

Recently though, the only thing that's pissing me off is how star fox 64 isn't on the eShop channel, it's only on the Wii Shop channel. WHY

 

[SimonBarSinister]

I really liked Star Fox Zero and it's controls...

Recently though, the only thing that's pissing me off is how star fox 64 isn't on the eShop channel, it's only on the Wii Shop channel. WHY

I just wish they'd start getting 64 games in at a faster rate.

EDIT: And what happened to all those other platforms the Wii Shop Channel had?

 

[C3CC]

I was aware of Miyamoto's involvement in many of Nintendo's latest messes, but I hadn't seen them all piled up and listed in the same place.

Holy ****. The man needs to be fired ASAP. His retirement time has come; new, young people with fresh ideas need to take over if they really want to save their franchises.

It's just so damn easy, God!! We want a new F-Zero? GIVE US A NEW F-ZERO. We want a new Paper Mario with the old formula? THEN GIVE US A GODDAMN NEW PAPER MARIO WITH THE OLD FORMULA. We want a new Metroid game? THEN GIVE US A NEW PROPER METROID GAME. Is it really that hard to listen to the fans? They should stop trying so hard in "being different and bringing new things to the table", instead they should realize that what they already have works. I'm all in for new ideas like Splatoon (which I loved), but the classics should stay the way they've always been.

 

[LancerStaff]

I was aware of Miyamoto's involvement in many of Nintendo's latest messes, but I hadn't seen them all piled up and listed in the same place.

Holy ****. The man needs to be fired ASAP. His retirement time has come; new, young people with fresh ideas need to take over if they really want to save their franchises.

It's just so damn easy, God!! We want a new F-Zero? GIVE US A NEW F-ZERO. We want a new Paper Mario with the old formula? THEN GIVE US A GODDAMN NEW PAPER MARIO WITH THE OLD FORMULA. We want a new Metroid game? THEN GIVE US A NEW PROPER METROID GAME. Is it really that hard to listen to the fans? They should stop trying so hard in "being different and bringing new things to the table", instead they should realize that what they already have works. I'm all in for new ideas like Splatoon (which I loved), but the classics should stay the way they've always been.

...You realize Miamoto didn't axe a potential new F-Zero, right? Nobody wants to make one, and they don't want to trust some random indie either. F-Zero's also the perfect example of why classics shouldn't always stay the way they were, because the last couple F-Zero games sold poorly. That's why the comment about the controller came up.

Federation Force has been in the oven on and off since like 2006. Nintendo's Next Level Games wanted to make FF.

Yeah, he was responsible for PMSS. But PMCS is all on Intelligent Systems.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Surely someone had to know what was going on when SS was met with less than desirable results. Anyone with some semblance of common sense wouldn't want to make the same mistake again, would they? Sure, Color Splash could be a fine game, I'm not doubting the possibility of it turning out like that. But when players are clamoring for a Paper Mario game akin to the 64/GCN games, someone has to be paying attention.

 

[LancerStaff]

Surely someone had to know what was going on when SS was met with less than desirable results. Anyone with some semblance of common sense wouldn't want to make the same mistake again, would they? Sure, Color Splash could be a fine game, I'm not doubting the possibility of it turning out like that. But when players are clamoring for a Paper Mario game akin to the 64/GCN games, someone has to be paying attention.

I'm not really sure who made the decision to make a Sticker Star sequel, but I kinda doubt Shiggs is so invested in it that he made it happen.

It sold well and most people don't hate it like active video game forum goers do. Probably got decent reviews on Club Nintendo too, considering most forum goers viewed it as the weird handheld spin-off spin-off instead of being the death of Paper Mario. I really could of lived with SS being the experimental offshoot... But being the new direction the series is going in? Uh, no.

 

[Stu R]

REMOVED WOLF IN WIIU VERSION

 

[C3CC]

...You realize Miamoto didn't axe a potential new F-Zero, right? Nobody wants to make one, and they don't want to trust some random indie either. F-Zero's also the perfect example of why classics shouldn't always stay the way they were, because the last couple F-Zero games sold poorly. That's why the comment about the controller came up.

Federation Force has been in the oven on and off since like 2006. Nintendo's Next Level Games wanted to make FF.

Yeah, he was responsible for PMSS. But PMCS is all on Intelligent Systems.

Publicity, my friend. Publicity is the key. Splatoon was a huge success not only because it is a great game, but because they worked their asses off promoting it. They managed to call people's attention to the point where people were willing to try the new thing. They could always do the same with F-Zero. In fact, F-Zero has a great advantage, and it's that it's a beloved franchise. They could appeal to older crowds using the nostalgia factor, as well as a new public. Of course, the game has to be good to compensate.

F-Zero doesn't really need anything new. It's just fine as is. People love it for what it is.

 

[LancerStaff]

Publicity, my friend. Publicity is the key. Splatoon was a huge success not only because it is a great game, but because they worked their ***** off promoting it. They managed to call people's attention to the point where people were willing to try the new thing. They could always do the same with F-Zero. In fact, F-Zero has a great advantage, and it's that it's a beloved franchise. They could appeal to older crowds using the nostalgia factor, as well as a new public. Of course, the game has to be good to compensate.

F-Zero doesn't really need anything new. It's just fine as is. People love it for what it is.

They advertised F-Zero... It had a whole anime and still did terribly.

People aren't interested in ultrahardcore racers. It absolutely needs to reinvent itself in order to succeed, but at the same time nobody wants to do it. And thus, it doesn't get made.

 

[LeifEriksson]

Publicity, my friend. Publicity is the key. Splatoon was a huge success not only because it is a great game, but because they worked their ***** off promoting it. They managed to call people's attention to the point where people were willing to try the new thing. They could always do the same with F-Zero. In fact, F-Zero has a great advantage, and it's that it's a beloved franchise. They could appeal to older crowds using the nostalgia factor, as well as a new public. Of course, the game has to be good to compensate.

F-Zero doesn't really need anything new. It's just fine as is. People love it for what it is.

Almost every F Zero game has had mediocre to poor sales. I don't know what you mean by saying it's fine as it is.

 

[WaddleKing]

REMOVED WOLF IN WIIU VERSION

But he's not on the 3DS version either nor would there be any real reason to make him an exclusive.
Though it is quite unfortunate to see Wolf gone, he was my favorite out of all the playable Starfox characters.

They advertised F-Zero... It had a whole anime and still did terribly.

People aren't interested in ultrahardcore racers. It absolutely needs to reinvent itself in order to succeed, but at the same time nobody wants to do it. And thus, it doesn't get made.

I could see it do better if was the focus of another game more and used in advertising to get the people into the series some more. He's super popular already, Nintendo, you can use him as an advertisement easily.

 

[LancerStaff]

I could see it do better if was the focus of another game more and used in advertising to get the people into the series some more. He's super popular already, Nintendo, you can use him as an advertisement easily.

People don't associate him with the series, though. Most people think he's a Smash Bros. character with a cameo in MK8 rather then the star of his own series.

I don't think most fans of Captain Falcon in Smash are interested in a brutally hard racer.

 

[WaddleKing]

People don't associate him with the series, though. Most people think he's a Smash Bros. character with a cameo in MK8 rather then the star of his own series.

I don't think most fans of Captain Falcon in Smash are interested in a brutally hard racer.

That's why i suggested a game focusing more on him, i know some peoople such as Etika already brought up that idea long ago but i could see a new F-Zero game do better if it focused more on .

That said it would end up becoming more of a Captain Falcon game than an F-Zero one really.

 

[C3CC]

I always thought that a hybrid between a beat-'em-up and a racing game would be cool. You know, a story mode where you have to go through Mute City beating bad guys using Falcon Punches and having your occasional races.

One can dream, I guess.

 

[LancerStaff]

I always thought that a hybrid between a beat-'em-up and a racing game would be cool. You know, a story mode where you have to go through Mute City beating bad guys using Falcon Punches and having your occasional races.

One can dream, I guess.

And yet Federation Force is a sign Nintendo's gone to the dogs...

Especially after FF I don't think such a game would be well received.

 

[Meatsmasher1337]

Delaying the new zelda game >:{

 

[LeifEriksson]

This was a LOOOOONG time ago, but the whole "melee won't be at EVO" fiasco still rubs me the wrong way. I hope nothing happens at EVO this year, because Melee singles are my favorite game to watch at EVO.