What has Nintendo done to upset you?

[ThatsBullocks]

Here's my take on the issue: Of all games that could've been remade, why not choose games that could truly benefit from a revision? I don't believe that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are games that fall in this category, and to a lesser extent, the two 3DS games. As far as I'm concerned, all four of those games were just fine in their original forms. The time and resources spent on those games could've gone to something that really needed the upgrade. I would be ecstatic if, say, the Oracle games were brought into the modern era.

I'm fine with remakes, it's just that they should be done for games that DO need it.

That I can agree with. I definitely want some Zelda 1 and 2 love.

 

[Minato]

Here's my take on the issue: Of all games that could've been remade, why not choose games that could truly benefit from a revision? I don't believe that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are games that fall in this category, and to a lesser extent, the two 3DS games. As far as I'm concerned, all four of those games were just fine in their original forms. The time and resources spent on those games could've gone to something that really needed the upgrade. I would be ecstatic if, say, the Oracle games were brought into the modern era.

I'm fine with remakes, it's just that they should be done for games that DO need it.

Because the time and resources put in to get WW HD and TP HD do not equal the amount that would be needed for full blown remakes of old Zeldas with new engines. The goal of WW HD and TP HD were to get familiarized with tools for the new Zelda game while delivering something for the Wii U. Things like TP HD, OoT3DS, and MM3DS were all outsourced.

Nintendo has stated they're pretty satisfied with Zelda games as they are, they'll mostly go as far as slightly upgraded ports rather than full on remakes. They said they'd rather make new games to begin with, especially when given the time and resources. This led to the Zelda team making ALBW as a new game and Grezzo just moving onto Triforce Heroes after Grezzo was done with upgraded ports.

 

[Deleted member]

it seems they only hire japanese music composers :/ so there is no hope for me.

 

[Bassoonist]

Here's my take on the issue: Of all games that could've been remade, why not choose games that could truly benefit from a revision? I don't believe that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are games that fall in this category, and to a lesser extent, the two 3DS games. As far as I'm concerned, all four of those games were just fine in their original forms. The time and resources spent on those games could've gone to something that really needed the upgrade. I would be ecstatic if, say, the Oracle games were brought into the modern era.

I'm fine with remakes, it's just that they should be done for games that DO need it.

Actually, I'm going to go back on a part of my original post and state that I actually don't think that remasters like Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD are without value. Wind Waker obviously can't be played on the Wii U, being only a GCN game. Twilight Princess, though, I'm actually quite a bit fan of. Trying to play it or any other Wii game on the Wii U makes it look terrible.

So, I actually am glad to own a version of TP that looks nice on the Wii U/in HD. I just... think that it most definitely should not have cost full-price. As I said before, if WWHD and TPHD had been bundled, then I think it would have made for a nice, acceptable product. Charging full-price for single remastered games, though? That's just cheap, and quite a rip-off.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Actually, I'm going to go back on a part of my original post and state that I actually don't think that remasters like Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD are without value. Wind Waker obviously can't be played on the Wii U, being only a GCN game. Twilight Princess, though, I'm actually quite a bit fan of. Trying to play it or any other Wii game on the Wii U makes it look terrible.

So, I actually am glad to own a version of TP that looks nice on the Wii U/in HD. I just... think that it most definitely should not have cost full-price. As I said before, if WWHD and TPHD had been bundled, then I think it would have made for a nice, acceptable product. Charging full-price for single remastered games, though? That's just cheap, and quite a rip-off.

From what I've seen of Twilight Princess HD, it really doesn't look significantly different as compared to the original. What did they do other than clean up the graphics a bit and add amiibo support? I don't think any of that justifies me choosing that over the original.

 

[finalark]

From what I've seen of Twilight Princess HD, it really doesn't look significantly different as compared to the original. What did they do other than clean up the graphics a bit and add amiibo support? I don't think any of that justifies me choosing that over the original.

They reduced the amount of bugs you gotta hunt for, added cheats, hard mode and a bonus Wolf Link dungeon if you've got amiibos.

IMO neither WWHD nor TPHD are worth picking up if you still have your original GCN copies.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

They reduced the amount of bugs you gotta hunt for, added cheats, hard mode and a bonus Wolf Link dungeon if you've got amiibos.

IMO neither WWHD nor TPHD are worth picking up if you still have your original GCN copies.

Doesn't seem like anything significant, really.

I still have my originals and I still enjoy playing them every now and then.

 

[Minato]

Sometimes you have to realize that not everyone has their originals. Not everyone falls under the demographic that remasters are targeted towards. When you have a console devoid of third parties flocking, options like these look pretty good to help beef up the library when resources are an issue.

As for WWHD, it originally was a 3D Zelda title I liked to one of my top Zeldas now. They were small tweaks without any large additions, but they eased the pacing problems for me. TP I just don't care for as much that I haven't even bought a Wii U copy despite not owning the Wii version anymore. 2 reasons I would get it is because the original doesn't look good on an HDTV and I don't have to hunt down a high priced GC version to play a copy without motion controls.

 

[Bassoonist]

From what I've seen of Twilight Princess HD, it really doesn't look significantly different as compared to the original. What did they do other than clean up the graphics a bit and add amiibo support? I don't think any of that justifies me choosing that over the original.

What I mean is that running Wii games on the Wii U really messes them up - far more jagged edges, etc. So a remaster that makes the game run like it should on the Wii U is actually something I don't mind for a game I like as much as TP.

...But I can not defend it as a full-price release, of course.

 

[Iceweasel]

Here's my take on the issue: Of all games that could've been remade, why not choose games that could truly benefit from a revision? I don't believe that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are games that fall in this category, and to a lesser extent, the two 3DS games. As far as I'm concerned, all four of those games were just fine in their original forms. The time and resources spent on those games could've gone to something that really needed the upgrade. I would be ecstatic if, say, the Oracle games were brought into the modern era.

I'm fine with remakes, it's just that they should be done for games that DO need it.

Well, IMO both could use a bit of reworking in some areas (mostly the overworld), but the changes we got aren't things that could improve the core game. It's an upres.

I could see rereleasing the games in another 10 years, but it's too soon IMO.

They reduced the amount of bugs you gotta hunt for, added cheats, hard mode and a bonus Wolf Link dungeon if you've got amiibos.

IMO neither WWHD nor TPHD are worth picking up if you still have your original GCN copies.

Especially not if you have a Wii to run Cleanrip on and a computer than can run them uprezzed through Dolphin. Heck, I think WW looks better that way. I haven't played WWHD, but I've seen screenshots. IT'S. WAY. TOO BRIGHT. There's this blinding white bloom effect everywhere.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

What I mean is that running Wii games on the Wii U really messes them up - far more jagged edges, etc. So a remaster that makes the game run like it should on the Wii U is actually something I don't mind for a game I like as much as TP.

...But I can not defend it as a full-price release, of course.

Well, I've ran Wii games on my Wii U, like Metroid Prime 3, Return to Dreamland, and yes, even Twilight Princess. I never noticed any issues in doing so. If you're talking about graphics(which I think you are), all I can say is I'm not worried about how the games look on Wii U. As long as they function as they did on the original console, I've got no complaints.

 

[mistercupter]

Nintendo upset me with how they treated Chibi-Robo. The original is my absolute favorite game of all time and the sequels weren't like it at all. That doesn't bother me as much as that they marketed in such a confusing way that they lost plenty of customers and after Ziplash... It's probably over Also, I just found the other games in the series kinda crappy.

 

[Frizz]

Has anyone mentioned the Paper Mario franchise yet?

 

[C3CC]

Has anyone mentioned the Paper Mario franchise yet?

Yes. In one of the previous pages I had a lengthy rant about how I hate how they killed that series that I used to love so much.

 

[NekoTony]

Effected me from going outside

 

[Senor Mexicano]

For one thing, I felt like Nintendo didn't polish TPHD enough. During the cutscenes, the character models shake like crazy, making it seem less cinematic and overall unappealing. The frame rate is awful in some parts of the game. Try going into that Chu cave near the Bridge of Hylia during a lightning storm in-game. It drops down significantly to around 20 fps. Even just running across water in Kakariko Gorge makes the game drop 10 - 20 frames. Additionally, the textures seem to have stayed the same, except for a few textures that were improved only a bit.

Overall the game got worse from it's GCN/Wii counterpart. I was really disappointed with how Nintendo treated the remaster and I hope they release an update fixing some of the stuff I mentioned, perhaps after Zelda U is finished.

 

[Iceweasel]

For one thing, I felt like Nintendo didn't polish TPHD enough. During the cutscenes, the character models shake like crazy, making it seem less cinematic and overall unappealing. The frame rate is awful in some parts of the game. Try going into that Chu cave near the Bridge of Hylia during a lightning storm in-game. It drops down significantly to around 20 fps. Even just running across water in Kakariko Gorge makes the game drop 10 - 20 frames. Additionally, the textures seem to have stayed the same, except for a few textures that were improved only a bit.

Overall the game got worse from it's GCN/Wii counterpart. I was really disappointed with how Nintendo treated the remaster and I hope they release an update fixing some of the stuff I mentioned, perhaps after Zelda U is finished.

Is TPHD still 30FPS like the original, or was it increased to 60?

Dropping 10-20FPS in a 60FPS game during normal play is absolutely unacceptable, but in a 30FPS game it's cause for mass firings IMO.

 

[Senor Mexicano]

Is TPHD still 30FPS like the original, or was it increased to 60?

Dropping 10-20FPS in a 60FPS game during normal play is absolutely unacceptable, but in a 30FPS game it's cause for mass firings IMO.

Unbelievably, Aonuma and his team ultimately decided against 60 fps and decided to stay faithful to the original by keeping it 30 fps.

Source: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/zelda-...-kept-at-30fps-to-stay-faithful-to-the-origin

 

[Iceweasel]

Unbelievably, Aonuma and his team ultimately decided against 60 fps and decided to stay faithful to the original by keeping it 30 fps.

Source: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/zelda-...-kept-at-30fps-to-stay-faithful-to-the-origin

Translation: The Wii U has **** hardware and we know it, so we'll try 30fps and hope better textures and models won't turn this into a slideshow.

 

[finalark]

Man, all you new gen kids and your future eyes.

I can't even tell the difference between 30FPS and 60 unless they're literally side-by-side. I believe that playing World of Warcraft at 8-15 frames really made me not care about tech.

 

[LancerStaff]

Translation: The Wii U has **** hardware and we know it, so we'll try 30fps and hope better textures and models won't turn this into a slideshow.

I explained it on the previous page... The engine is tied to the FPS. Double the FPS, double the speed of everything. Either you bug test everything and make the port not worth the trouble, leave it as a buggy mess and have everybody complain, or leave it at 30fps and have next to nobody complain.

Most people don't care about 60fps, devs included.

 

[Iceweasel]

Man, all you new gen kids and your future eyes.

I can't even tell the difference between 30FPS and 60 unless they're literally side-by-side. I believe that playing World of Warcraft at 8-15 frames really made me not care about tech.

I can't just look at a game and tell anymore, but 60FPS games definitely feel smoother when you play them. I could look and tell when I was younger, but not anymore. I'm generally okay with single-player console games being 30FPS, but when you do a "next-gen" remake of a game that came out last gen and it's still on 30, it makes you wonder why they remade/ported it so soon. I could see if it was a rare game that achieved recognition after it became hard to find (Xenoblade), but without even having the charts in front of me I'm willing to say that TP was one of the top-selling (top 10/15 GC, top 5 Wii) Wii and Gamecube games. (did I guess right?)

There are tricks that game devs can use to make it seem like they have a higher frame rate than they do - Until recently, I thought that WW was 60FPS, until I used it to benchmark my new computer and Dolphin informed me that it's native 30FPS. I'm not sure how it's done, but it's rare to see and rarer that it works. TP definitely feels 30.

I explained it on the previous page... The engine is tied to the FPS. Double the FPS, double the speed of everything. Either you bug test everything and make the port not worth the trouble, leave it as a buggy mess and have everybody complain, or leave it at 30fps and have next to nobody complain.

Then maybe don't remake/port it so soon? Or rewrite the part of the engine that causes the problem? Or wait until new hardware can give TP a massive upgrade, instead of a little one? Not doing something (or waiting) is always an option.

Most people don't care about 60fps, devs included.

Well, it's obvious that somebody at Nintendo doesn't care, but gee would you look at these <30,000 people who don't care about 30fps. And those are just the people that are in the group, I have no way of knowing how many follow the curator but aren't in the associated group (count +1 for me).

 

[SuperPiposaru]

Wii U and 3DS being region locked upsets me a bit. I guess.

 

[LancerStaff]

IThen maybe don't remake/port it so soon? Or rewrite the part of the engine that causes the problem? Or wait until new hardware can give TP a massive upgrade, instead of a little one? Not doing something (or waiting) is always an option.


Well, it's obvious that somebody at Nintendo doesn't care, but gee would you look at these <30,000 people who don't care about 30fps. And those are just the people that are in the group, I have no way of knowing how many follow the curator but aren't in the associated group (count +1 for me).

There's not one little thing you could change and fix it... The game would need to be rebuilt from the ground up. As I explained. More power doesn't fix anything here.

Most games since polygons were a thing have been 30 FPS or worse. There's no magic trick that makes games look faster or slower, it just is what it is. Honestly if you cared that much you would of been able to tell with WW... It just comes off as whiney.

How many people there would not buy a game over FPS? Mm, not many.

 

[finalark]

I could see if it was a rare game that achieved recognition after it became hard to find (Xenoblade), but without even having the charts in front of me I'm willing to say that TP was one of the top-selling (top 10/15 GC, top 5 Wii) Wii and Gamecube games. (did I guess right?)

Actually, TP isn't even close to being in the top five best selling Wii games. It comes in at 13 if my fried-from-work brain counted that right. As for GCN, it isn't even in the top fifteen.

Not to mention that TP came out TEN YEARS AGO. Let me give you some perspective on that: I am a 22 year old working man who is about to wrap up college and move on to a stable accounting job.

I had just entered middle school when Twilight Princess came out.

Yes, remaking a decade old game is perfectly justifiable.

 

[Senor Mexicano]

The problem for me about TPHD isn't that it stayed 30FPS, but rather the fact that it drops large amounts of frames in some areas. I don't really mind if games are released at a low FPS, just as long as it's actually consistent. Inconsistent frame rates make my eyes hurt sometimes.

 

[LancerStaff]

The problem for me about TPHD isn't that it stayed 30FPS, but rather the fact that it drops large amounts of frames in some areas. I don't really mind if games are released at a low FPS, just as long as it's actually consistent. Inconsistent frame rates make my eyes hurt sometimes.

Isn't it only during very specific situations? Like during a thunderstorm under the Chu Chu tree.

Unless you're taking about how the game freezes for a moment whenever you hit an enemy, though that's actually a feature.

 

[TheDarkMysteryMan]

They let treehouse ruin alot of good games.

 

[LancerStaff]

They let treehouse ruin alot of good games.

Like what, Fates? Because, well... Japanese version wasn't much better.

 

[finalark]

Anyone who thinks the Treehouse's localizations are bad have never seen an actually bad localization.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yeah. Treehouse was founded because of all the god-awful localizations of the 8-bit and early 16-bit era. First project was making DKC less British I believe... That's where they got the name and the modern logo.

What most people don't realize is that they've been "censoring" games since the beginning. Vivian from TTYD anyone? Chances are that your favorite GC game had a more significant change then the boob slider's removal and you never knew it was different to begin with. See, that's their job. They want their games dialogue to feel native and for people to get the jokes. Treehouse usually communicates with the devs directly while the games are being made so everything is okay'd before they change something. Actually they often get suggestions from devs about what to change, famous example being how Sakurai told them it'd be fine to cut Marth and Roy.

 

[Senor Mexicano]

Isn't it only during very specific situations? Like during a thunderstorm under the Chu Chu tree.

Unless you're taking about how the game freezes for a moment whenever you hit an enemy, though that's actually a feature.

While it does lose frames only in certain situations. I've also noticed it lose frames during some boss fights. Also, the specific areas that lag quite a lot are points visited in the game.

(I'm gonna mention a minor spoiler)

Spoiler

For example, you have to escort Telma and her carriage to Kakariko Village, and considering the controls of Epona, and the lag from the cave, it's a rough mission Yes, the cave lags even without the storm, but not as severely as during the storm.

With all this discussion and truth about the frame rate, I feel that I'm over-exaggerating a bit, and I apologize for that.

 

[FallenHero]

After watching a video today about Starfox Zero and Nintendo in general, it just reminded me again once more how Nintendo seems to be completely deaf to what fans want when it comes to anything that isn't Smash 4 (not even Smash Bros. in general, since if they really were listening they would realize how much profit they can make off of re-releasing Melee on the eShop with an online mode). People ask for a new Star Fox? They give us a game with forced ****ty motion controls. People want a new Paper Mario game that is like the first two games? They give us a game that looks extremely similar to Sticker Star, which almost nobody liked. People want a new F-Zero game? Miyamoto doesn't want to make a new game because they need a new controller for it (I doubt most of us want to play a racing game as difficult as F-Zero with whatever the hell kind of horrible motion controls Miyamoto has in mind). People want a new Metriod game on the Wii U? **** you have Metriod Federation Force instead (though they might be working on a Metriod for the Wii U that we don't know about yet). No one wants another console with a forced gimmick, and it doesn't matter if the gimmick is good, just give us a normal controller and good games. As much money as Nintendo has right now, if they screw up the NX; I cannot see Nintendo surviving as a first party game company. Oh and don't even get started on Nintendo and online play in general.....

 

[ThatsBullocks]

(not even Smash Bros. in general, since if they really were listening they would realize how much profit they can make off of re-releasing Melee on the eShop with an online mode).

Gamecube rereleases could be in the works soon, and it would make sense since this year would be the 15th anniversary of the GCN. Otherwise, I agree (although I'd settle for a VC rerelease of Melee); there's a huge market for Melee (not just those oh-so scary mean competitive types) and it baffles me how Nintendo hasn't embraced it. The fact that it still has a massive following that still attracts new players, to the point of it being by far the oldest game present at many FGC tournaments (including big-name events like EVO) should be an immediately obvious sign of Melee's profitability.

People ask for a new Star Fox? They give us a game with forced ****ty motion controls.

It really seemed like Nintendo were gradually getting past the Wii's misgivings, only for SF0 to c*ck that all up. A pity, since it was the first original entry in a series people have been desperate to see return for many years.

People want a new Paper Mario game that is like the first two games? They give us a game that looks extremely similar to Sticker Star, which almost nobody liked.

I'm thinking that it's an incredibly misguided way of them trying to say "are you totally sure you don't like this kind of thing?", because it'd be pretty bull-headed even for Nintendo to outright ignore the near-universal criticism of this formula and carry on a "screw the players, they're just haters" mentality. Some people have brought up how Nintendo might not want two sets of similar Mario RPGs, but if they're still comfortable with doing the whole 2-Pokemon-game thing in 2016, they sure as crap wouldn't have an issue with significantly differing Mario RPGs.

People want a new F-Zero game? Miyamoto doesn't want to make a new game because they need a new controller for it (I doubt most of us want to play a racing game as difficult as F-Zero with whatever the hell kind of horrible motion controls Miyamoto has in mind).

Maybe the backlash from Star Fox Zero will make Nintendo reconsider forcing motion garbage for F-Zero. (Notice how Miyamoto's been a common thread for many of these issues so far, interesting...) They wouldn't even make Captain Falcon a proper character in Mario Kart 8 when it got two F-Zero tracks.

People want a new Metriod game on the Wii U? **** you have Metriod Federation Force instead (though they might be working on a Metriod for the Wii U that we don't know about yet).

To be fair, Federation Force isn't a problem itself IMO; it's how Nintendo's treating it as if it's a big-ticket Metroid entry that's making it an issue, especially with the whole "this is what you're getting and you'll like it now go f*ck yourself" manifesto during the most recent Direct.

 

[MajinBuu272]

They made King K. Rool a mii costume and added another fire emblem character to the game...
thats one...

 

[FallenHero]

Oh and there is a few more things that really pisses me off about Nintendo. Nintendo KNOWS how much people outside of Japan want Mother 3, but they STILL have not given us that game for no real reason! Also, WHY THE **** DO THEY REGION-LOCK THEIR SYSTEMS. I remember having Jump Ultimate Stars that I borrowed from a friend, and I would love playing that game on the DS, but on the 3DS they said "**** you buy another 3DS if you want to play that game." I really do not understand the point of region-locking systems, like I get that you don't want to go out of your way to localize it and release it where I live, but at least let me go out of MY way to import the game and play it without having to buy another console.

 

[WaddleKing]

Oh and there is a few more things that really pisses me off about Nintendo. Nintendo KNOWS how much people outside of Japan want Mother 3, but they STILL have not given us that game for no real reason! Also, WHY THE **** DO THEY REGION-LOCK THEIR SYSTEMS. I remember having Jump Ultimate Stars that I borrowed from a friend, and I would love playing that game on the DS, but on the 3DS they said "**** you buy another 3DS if you want to play that game." I really do not understand the point of region-locking systems, like I get that you don't want to go out of your way to localize it and release it where I live, but at least let me go out of MY way to import the game and play it without having to buy another console.

There are many other games such as the Starfy ones and early FE games that haven't gotten released internationally that deserve it as well. But i do agree that Region Locking needs to die, it's just pure toxic trash and holds no benefit whatsoever.

 

[LancerStaff]

Don't see how the motion controls are a problem in SF0... There's not enough buttons on the controller to give up what's currently on the right stick anyway.

Left stick is steering, obviously. Right is boost, brake, banking and barrel rolls. ZR is shoot, R is bombs, ZL is lock-on, and L unlocks charge shots. (Which in of itself is an incredibly important advanced technique from 64, if you're wondering. That'll bring a score of 2500 in 64 to 3000.) A transforms, Y recenters the camera, X is a summersault, and B is a U turn.

The added control the gyro gives you is the single most defining feature of Zero. If it weren't a thing then it'd just be a 64 rehash.

 

[Ocarina Stealer]

Splitting FE Fates into two games really annoys me.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

If it weren't a thing then it'd just be a 64 rehash.

Oh, you mean it wasn't already? Playing through the game already, I find that hard to believe.