What counts as evidence for God?

[TUMM11]

I ask you this Budget Player Cadet_

What do do you think created the universe?

 

[TUMM11]

Plus, if there is no god, then what is the purpose of the human race?

 

[Murlough]

Once again I say, READ THE BIBLE.

Read the definition of proof. The Bible does not PROVE anything.

 

[TUMM11]

Read the definition of proof. The Bible does not PROVE anything.

Have you read the Bible?

 

[Murlough]

Have you read the Bible?

No. My whole family other than me has and I know most of what it says anyway. Regardless a book is not solid evidence of the Christian god.

 

[TUMM11]

No. My whole family other than me has and I know most of what it says anyway. Regardless a book is not solid evidence of the Christian god.

How can try to disprove that it doesn't have truth unless you read it?

It is like me saying that a chemistry book is wrong about chemistry without looking at it first.

 

[TUMM11]

I will pray that all of you see the glory of God and that he will forgive you of your sins.

 

[Murlough]

How can try to disprove that it doesn't have truth unless you read it?

It is like me saying that a chemistry book is wrong about chemistry without looking at it first.

Even if I did read a chemistry book that doesn't mean everything in the book is true. New facts are discovered all the time.

The same with the bible. I COULD waste my time and read it but when I finally got through it there is no way to prove any of it is truth. The book is not factual evidence of god. If scrypture could be absolute evidence then I guess dog people exist too because the Egyptians drew them so they must have seen them right?! No.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Have you read the Bible?

The Bible is just one of many religious texts, not even the first. Have you read all of those too? If reading is enough, then I guess upon doing so those become true as well somehow?

Plus, if there is no god, then what is the purpose of the human race?

What is the purpose of this question?

 

[TUMM11]

The Bible is just one of many religious texts, not even the first. Have you read all of those too? If reading is enough, then I guess upon doing so those become true as well somehow?



What is the purpose of this question?

To make you think.

 

[TUMM11]

The Bible is just one of many religious texts, not even the first. Have you read all of those too? If reading is enough, then I guess upon doing so those become true as well somehow?



What is the purpose of this question?[/quote
I Have not but I know they are false because in the book of Exodus, chapter20, verses3-6(witch is in the Bible)
3“You shall have no other gods beforeme.
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lordyour God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

For those of you who don't believe in God, then I ask you this.
If God doesn't exist, then what is the point of the humanity race?

 

[Murlough]

To make you think.

I'm thinking you didn't look up the definition of proof. I'm also thinking you didn't read the forum rules since you keep double posting.


EDIT: This IS NOT an argument over God's existence. This is a debate over undeniable PROOF of his existence.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

To make you think.

Tell me, what is the purpose of thinking?

Also, to what end does purpose relate to the topic?

I Have not but I know they are false because in the book of Exodus, chapter20, verses3-6(witch is in the Bible)
3“You shall have no other gods beforeme.
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lordyour God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

The book denying opposing texts only makes it true if you're already assuming whatever it says it is true to begin with (the text is true because the text is true), it is circular reasoning. And you are incredibly wrong if you think YWHW is the only, let alone the first, jealous deity written about (in fact it's a pretty unoriginal theme within them). The same insufficient logic, even if granted, would still be contradictory because it'd have to be granted to them all.

 

[TUMM11]

Who here believes in the Big Bang theory?

 

[Deleted member]

There is no solid evidence of God and it depends on faith of perspective.

It is a very large coincidence that the world works the way it does. That the first single cell organisms appeared and later evolved into other creatures.

There is not much evidence that the Big Bang Theory exists, though it is generally accepted by scientists.

But could God cause the Big Bang to happen? The Big Bang wasn't a discord explosion after all. The Big Bang theory doesn't automatically debunk the existence of God.

Humans don't have hard evidence for the existence of God that would make even atheists believe in God. However, the reason physics exist would be the work of God.

 

[Murlough]

Who here believes in the Big Bang theory?

Get to the point already. The Big Bang Theory doesn't prove nor disprove the existence of god.

There is no solid evidence of God and it depends on faith of perspective.

It is a very large coincidence that the world works the way it does. That the first single cell organisms appeared and later evolved into other creatures.

There is not much evidence that the Big Bang Theory exists, though it is generally accepted by scientists.

But could God cause the Big Bang to happen? The Big Bang wasn't a discord explosion after all. The Big Bang theory doesn't automatically debunk the existence of God.

Humans don't have hard evidence for the existence of God that would make even atheists believe in God. However, the reason physics exist would be the work of God.

I kinda get what you are saying but that isn't necessarily true. For all we know physics could work simply because that is how the world around us works. It isn't proof really.

 

[Deleted member]

I kinda get what you are saying but that isn't necessarily true. For all we know physics could work simply because that is how the world around us works. It isn't proof really.

But how and why does it work that way? How is it that it all these physics interact with each other in such an orderly way that allows balance in this world?

 

[Murlough]

But how and why does it work that way? How is it that it all these physics interact with each other in such an orderly way that allows balance in this world?

I don't know. The answer is not necessarily god though. I don't believe in this many insane coincidences. The fact that everything in the universe works so well does seem by design to me. I believe in a world beyond ours and a higher power but not necessarily "God The Heavenly Father of Jesus." I'm not saying gods don't exist.

Anyway, your point raises alot of questions but it still is not "undeniable proof." You get what I mean, right?

 

[Whia]

I ask you this Budget Player Cadet_

What do do you think created the universe?

Argument from ignorance fallacy.

And the big bang is not necessarily purported to have created the universe.

Plus, if there is no god, then what is the purpose of the human race?

There isn't one. Begging the question fallacy.

It is a very large coincidence that the world works the way it does. That the first single cell organisms appeared and later evolved into other creatures.

What's coincidental about it?

There is not much evidence that the Big Bang Theory exists, though it is generally accepted by scientists.

There's enormous evidence for the big bang.

Humans don't have hard evidence for the existence of God that would make even atheists believe in God. However, the reason physics exist would be the work of God.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[TUMM11]

If you believe in the Big Bang theory and there is no existence of God, then how what was before the Big Bang theory, and what happens before that?
The existence of God disproves tis by stating that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Now if you take that begining point and you think from a timeline perspective then we can prove that the begging created the future and started what was before the begining.

Say the begining is 0.
Then the preasant is 1.
Then before the begining would be -1.
The theory of the begining.

And in the begining there was nothing except God. God is the infinite what is and was and what is to come. And the only reason I am still posting on this thread is because my God( the Father,Son, and Holly Spirit) is because I am trying to show you his magnificent creation and I am trying to tell you that the anti-crossy is comming and when this Earth dies I want to know that you all have been saved from the pit of HELL.

 

[Murlough]

If you believe in the Big Bang theory and there is no existence of God, then how what was before the Big Bang theory, and what happens before that?
The existence of God disproves tis by stating that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Now if you take that begining point and you think from a timeline perspective then we can prove that the begging created the future and started what was before the begining.

Say the begining is 0.
Then the preasant is 1.
Then before the begining would be -1.
The theory of the begining.

And in the begining there was nothing except God. God is the infinite what is and was and what is to come. And the only reason I am still posting on this thread is because my God( the Father,Son, and Holly Spirit) is because I am trying to show you his magnificent creation and I am trying to tell you that the anti-crossy is comming and when this Earth dies I want to know that you all have been saved from the pit of HELL.

Your logic is if nothing could have came before then how could it have occured?

Well then by using your same logic something MUST have come before god.

EDIT: You STILL are arguing over the existence of god and not proof of his existence.....nor providing any kind of proof in the first place.

 

[Sucumbio]

I ask you this Budget Player Cadet_

What do do you think created the universe?

What makes you think the Universe was "created?" perhaps it was always there and just took on the form we now experience.

 

[Whia]

If you believe in the Big Bang theory and there is no existence of God, then how what was before the Big Bang theory, and what happens before that?.

We don't know, but that lone fact doesn't mean you're allowed to posit your god as an explanation without positively indicative evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

 

[Sehnsucht]

Concerning the two current talking points:

A) The Big Bang Theory doesn't explain where things came from, or how everything actually began (if at all). It describes how the universe inflated and evolved over time, from what was a state of apparent singularity to its present form.

What grounded that singularity? Did anything come before then? All that can be said so far is that our space and time hits a sort of boundary about ~13.7 billion years in the past. God is one hypothesis for That Which Grounds, but it's not one we have much good reason to consider the most probable.

B) There's a difference between purpose and function.

The function of life is to survive and reproduce. But survival and reproduction is not the purpose of life. Not necessarily.

Because function is a description of what a thing does, while purpose entails intention, aboutness. Only self-aware entities can imbue things with meaning and intention and aboutness.

So, purpose and meaning exist only for those things which are capable of conceiving of purpose and meaning (like humans, for instance).

In the absence of a God, therefore, the purpose of human existence is... well, whatever you want it to be.

 

[TUMM11]

If you believe in nothing, then is that your belief?

And my God created the universe that is why I said look out the window in a previous post, and the reason I said the Bible is because it explains the enormous evidence about the existence of God, so if you want answers then read the Bible.

 

[TUMM11]

Hey Nicholas1024, what do you think?

 

[Murlough]

If you believe in nothing, then is that your belief?

And my God created the universe that is why I said look out the window in a previous post, and the reason I said the Bible is because it explains the enormous evidence about the existence of God, so if you want answers then read the Bible.

PROOF. OF. EXISTENCE. Dude seriously I get it. You love god and we are all pathetic sinners in your eyes. You love him so much that he must be real right?

What you aren't getting is that love, the bible, or the outdoors ARE NOT concrete evidence of god. They aren't. They DO NOT prove anything. If that is what works for you then fine but for us it is not solid evidence.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

If you believe in nothing, then is that your belief?

And my God created the universe that is why I said look out the window in a previous post, and the reason I said the Bible is because it explains the enormous evidence about the existence of God, so if you want answers then read the Bible.

Actually, if you look out the window, you'll know for sure that the Greek primordials formed the Universe and not YWHW. However the Titans they made usurped the rule of Uranus, and then the Gods that came after usurped them, and now we are under the rule of Zeus, son of the Titan Cronus (son of the primordial Uranus). The Giants did try to usurp the Gods, followed by the greatest monster in history of creation, Typhon, but the all power Zeus fortunately prevailed in the end. If you want answers, read the various legends documented by the Greeks.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

If you believe in nothing, then is that your belief?

I'm going to stray off the topic for a moment here, but I really feel like I need to clear something out.
Everyone needs to get rid of the idea that Atheists are God-hating, Cross-trampling hipsters who need their daily dose of sins and bigotry to stay happy and/or are skeptic about absolutely everything. It's just that we don't particularly need a reason to join any religion, though we don't all disrespect them all. Telling us to "look in the Bible for answers" is practically meaningless: We'd literally find the same amount of answers in the Greek and Roman myths.

For example: I have no reason to join the Catholic Church. My parents were both essentially Atheist, so I was never told "You have to love God son, he created everything! He's a pretty chill dude!" when growing up. Regarding God, they just told me that he was a Deity that some people believed created everything. Of course, I knew some of the stories in the Bible, but that was because they were 'classics" of some sorts, and I saw them more as apocryphal stories.
I also happen to live in an age were science is actually taken seriously, so if I wanted answers to how things worked, I would look up various, more reliable scientific facts, and, due to me not being raised as a religious kid, "it's God's work" was never really a proper or interesting answer. Plus, a few of the things the Bible says are outright wrong and outdated (no offense) so why would I look up facts inside the Bible instead of more fact-based works?
Also, all schools in France are secular, and unlike the Middle Ages being Catholic gives you no special privileges, so I hardly felt a need to convert. And due to established laws and the general encourage code of conduct, I consider my ethics to be, well, ethical, so once again I never needed a church to tell me what's right and what's wrong, I can tell what's right and wrong using my own senses, thank you very much.

Also, I wish that people would stop constantly using Science as the "anti-religion". Atheists don't worship it! You can still follow your principle beliefs yet agree on scientific facts and come to the conclusion that not EVERYTHING in the Bible/Koran/etc should be taken word for word and that some of it is outdated. For goodness sake, we don't live on a flat planet which happens to be the center of the Universe anymore. I mean, there are even a few Catholic Scientists (though I have yet to see what their "evidence" is for their theory that cavemen and Dinosaurs lived at the same time). Science is just the study of everything and the search for knowledge based on PURE facts, with NO SUPERSTITIONS to get in the way of things, and not some form of profusely swearing at religious people.

 

[Sehnsucht]

believe in nothing

I appreciate your taste in music. Let's share more neat things, then, such as this key distinction:

Atheism =/= Believing in Nothing. Atheism = The absence of theistic belief (literally a-theism).

That a person is an atheist tells you only one thing about them -- they have no belief in deity. It cannot tell you what an atheist might believe or not believe about any other topic.

Actually, if you look out the window, you'll know for sure that the Greek primordials formed the Universe and not YWHW. However the Titans they made usurped the rule of Uranus, and then the Gods that came after usurped them, and now we are under the rule of Zeus, son of the Titan Cronus (son of the primordial Uranus). The Giants did try to usurp the Gods, followed by the greatest monster in history of creation, Typhon, but the all power Zeus fortunately prevailed in the end. If you want answers, read the various legends documented by the Greeks.

In times of doubt, I ask myself:

WWKD (What Would Kratos Do)?

 

[Whia]

If you believe in nothing, then is that your belief?

And my God created the universe that is why I said look out the window in a previous post, and the reason I said the Bible is because it explains the enormous evidence about the existence of God, so if you want answers then read the Bible.

The bible contains claims, not evidence, which then need to be externally and independently verified.

 

[TUMM11]

I appreciate your taste in music. Let's share more neat things, then, such as this key distinction:

Atheism =/= Believing in Nothing. Atheism = The absence of theistic belief (literally a-theism).

That a person is an atheist tells you only one thing about them -- they have no belief in deity. It cannot tell you what an atheist might believe or not believe about any other topic.



In times of doubt, I ask myself:

WWKD (What Would Kratos Do)?

I have absolutely no taste in music, also you took what I said out of context by keeping only half of a scentence that I wrote.

 

[Murlough]

I have absolutely no taste in music, also you took what I said out of context by keeping only half of a scentence that I wrote.

That doesn't change the fact that your points prove nothing.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

I have absolutely no taste in music, also you took what I said out of context by keeping only half of a scentence that I wrote.

Well, to be perfectly frank, the rest of your "scentence" carries the exact same point as the rest of your previous claims: "The Bible is evidence". I regret to inform you that it is not, the rest of us have already pointed that out to you beforehand.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I have absolutely no taste in music, also you took what I said out of context by keeping only half of a scentence that I wrote.

I addressed your full point following the embedded video.

"If you believe in nothing, then is that your belief?"

You seemed to have the notion that atheism is an active belief in "nothing" -- tantamount to nihilism (the view that there is no meaning, that meaning cannot be created, etc.). Nihilism usually entails atheism, but atheism doesn't entail nihilism.

If you wanted the second part of your post addressed, well, you need only read through the past several responses to your argument of "God exists; read the Bible for more info".

 

[Deleted member]

What's coincidental about it?

These devices exist and correspond in a way that allows the universe to function.

Actually, if you look out the window, you'll know for sure that the Greek primordials formed the Universe and not YWHW. However the Titans they made usurped the rule of Uranus, and then the Gods that came after usurped them, and now we are under the rule of Zeus, son of the Titan Cronus (son of the primordial Uranus). The Giants did try to usurp the Gods, followed by the greatest monster in history of creation, Typhon, but the all power Zeus fortunately prevailed in the end. If you want answers, read the various legends documented by the Greeks.

If everything at one point did not exist, then that means there was a point in which nothing existed yet they exist now. This means that there must be a necessary being that has always existed and will never cease to exist that created life, showing that there is only one God. If multiple gods are creations of other gods, or one God, then they can truly not be gods as they are creations of a higher entity.

And my God created the universe that is why I said look out the window in a previous post, and the reason I said the Bible is because it explains the enormous evidence about the existence of God, so if you want answers then read the Bible.

I believe in God but I do not believe in the Bible, let alone believe Jesus was God. To my religion, God is formless, shapeless, and colorless and was never born, always existing and eternal. Jesus was born, and in human form. Jesus never said he was God and he explicitly said that God is greater than him and to pray to the Creator not him. Misinterpretations and mistranslations can often lead to a large demographic not knowing their religion accurately. Jesus was a prophet not God.

 

[Whia]

These devices exist and correspond in a way that allows the universe to function.

Well, for starters, that's not a coincidence. That term presupposes the universe is the way it is due to chance as opposed to, say, necessity - just like you claim your god is necessary.

This means that there must be a necessary being that has always existed and will never cease to exist that created life

No. Nothing requires the hypothetical necessary entity that precedes existence to be a being. That is of course assuming that the universe in some form or another isn't eternal - just like you claim your god is.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, for starters, that's not a coincidence. That term presupposes the universe is the way it is due to chance as opposed to, say, necessity - just like you claim your god is necessary.

Whether or not the universe is the way it is by chance, it is in this form because of these devices.

No. Nothing requires the hypothetical necessary entity that precedes existence to be a being. That is of course assuming that the universe in some form or another isn't eternal - just like you claim your god is.

You exist because your mother gave birth to you, and that's the reason I and every other person exist. The very first single celled organisms weren't born into. They were formed because the conditions of chemicals allowed life to appear. An entity to cause such conditions essentially would be the cause of other life to exist. We do not know for sure whether life existed eons before the original single celled organisms in another dimension or are they the first living creations.

 

[Whia]

Whether or not the universe is the way it is by chance, it is in this form because of these devices.

Indeed, but whether or not the universe is the way it is by chance or necessity is integral to the claim of whether or not it's coincidental. Running into an old friend you were just thinking about is a coincidence because there are an enormous amount of other things that could've happened in its stead (at least unbeknownst to you, before anyone mentions determinism). The most fortuitous outcome isn't just automatically coincidental if there were no other potential outcomes.

You exist because your mother gave birth to you, and that's the reason I and every other person exist. The very first single celled organisms weren't born into. They were formed because the conditions of chemicals allowed life to appear. An entity to cause such conditions essentially would be the cause of other life to exist. We do not know for sure whether life existed eons before the original single celled organisms in another dimension or are they the first living creations.

I fail to see the relevance of this paragraph.

 

[Deleted member]

Indeed, but whether or not the universe is the way it is by chance or necessity is integral to the claim of whether or not it's coincidental. Running into an old friend you were just thinking about is a coincidence because there are an enormous amount of other things that could've happened in its stead (at least unbeknownst to you, before anyone mentions determinism). The most fortuitous outcome isn't just automatically coincidental if there were no other potential outcomes.

If God exists he is a necessary being because it is logically impossible to be by chance. Because the universe would be a creation of God, the universe is by chance. It is a coincidence as it exists the way it is now because the conditions and devices existed. These devices existed by chance therefore making it a coincidence that the universe is the way it is now.

I fail to see the relevance of this paragraph.

The existence of one being is necessary to the existence of another, but one being must always exist and cause the existence of other entities. That paragraph was explaining why the necessary entity exists, since without the necessary entity nothing would exist because nothing can come from nothing.