What CG to use on what char? Master List

[r3d d09]

Bare with me on this. I think this would be a good addition to our master url/thread... thread. ha

It will take some time. but what I'd like to do is basically make a list of every character. and what CG is preferred for that char.

this should take only a day or so if we get the good IC mains to post.
I don't want this to be a big topic. just hard facts basically.

This will cut back on a lot of questions in the Q & A about weight classes. what CG's to use on what char. etc.


So i'm asking Lain, Meep, Hylian, and even you Bunny to help out. Lets get this thing done quickly so it's not a big discussion.

We can have a few suggestions on what grabs to use.i'm sure we would all like to be on the same page and save some other random threads and goo.

Sorry if this has already been done, but i've wanted to get this thread going and done for awhile.

I will edit everything, just post what you use on what char and so on.

Thanks in advance

Suggestions!!!!

This is a list of chaingrabbing methods that work best on each character. Each character usually uses the same grab methods as other characters in their weight class but there are some oddities like Ganondorf, Zelda, and Jigglypuff.

Notes:
*b.*Throw* = Buffered throw

For b.FThrow to DThrow, allow Popo to FThrow to Nana. If done vice-versa, the Throws are very hard to space.

Finishers:

Lightweights- UpSmash from Popo (leader) kills at ~100% most of the time from the top.
Middleweights- UpSmash from Popo (leader) kills at ~110-120% most of the time from the top.
Heavyweights- Reverse FSmash to kill from the sides seems to work best. Killing them from the top seems to take as long as ~140% with good DI.




Buffered Forward Throw. Back Throw Hobbling doesn't work on Bowser because of his strange fall animation. The Ice Block actually gives him options like rolling and using a get-up attack. BThrow to FThrow is fine as well, but it has awkward timing.
b.Forward Throw or BThrow to FThrow. Just like most heavyweights, FThrow to BThrow has strange timing. Back Throw Hobbling also works, but will take much longer.
b.DThrow to FThrow/FThrow to BThrow/FThrow to DThrow all work well on Diddy Kong. Choose whatever is preferred by you.
Same properties as Bowser except for the fact that he can be BThrow Hobbled.
The spacies have pretty awkward timing on BThrow. DThrow to BThrow or b.DThrow to FThrow works.
Same as Falco, but he has more fall speed on his DThrow. You can chain him to high percents with DThrow with a solo Ice Climber.
BThrow to DThrow works.
Very awkward BThrow timing. DThrow has awkward fall speed. Just BThrow hobble or b.FThrow.
BThrow to FThrow or BThrow Hobble. Very slow DThrow timing just like most heavyweigts.
BThrow is very strange for her. FThrow and DThrow are the same as other characters. b.FThrow to DThrow works.
Same as Donkey Kong.
Easiest character to chaingrab. All forms of chaingrabs work. b.BThrows/FThrow to BThrow/DThrow to BThrow/b.FThrow to DThrow all work and are extremely easy to perform.
Strangely enough, his chaingrab timing is similar to characters like DK and Dedede. The same chaingrabs are preferred on him.
Almost dead Middleweight. FThrow to BThrow are preferred.
Fairly difficult. b.FThrow to DThrow or BThrow hobbling work the best.
Almost the same as Lucario. DThrow works slightly faster, however. FThrow to BThrow is still the best.
Same as Luigi.
Same as Mario/Luigi.
Seems to have his own weight class. Pretty similar to Kirby, but BThrow timing on him is noticeably stricter. BThrow to DThrow is the preferred throw.
Same as Lucas.
Same as Kirby.
Same as Mario/Luigi/Marth.
Almost the same as Kirby. Timing is slightly stricter on BThrow. BThrow to DThrow works extremely well.
Same as Mario/Luigi/Marth/Peach.

Almost the same as Kirby. BThrow timing is slightly stricter. BThrow to DThrow is preferred.
Same as Mario/Luigi/Peach/Marth
Same as Bowser/DK.
Has timing very similar to Snake. FThrow is hard to space, BThrow timing is hard, and DThrow is hard to do because of the awkward fall speed. BThrow Hobbling is easiest and works the best.
Has very strange timing. FThrow is the same as heavyweights like Bowser, but BThrow and DThrow have strange timing. BThrow to FThrow works best. Or BThrow Hobbling.
:shiek: Same similar timing to the spacies.
Similar to R.O.B. BThrow Hobbling works well. Watch for Grenades when doing a BThrow Hobble. If you pivot grab him away from Grenades, that threat is gone.
Has similar timing as Mario/Luigi/Peach/Marth.
Same timing as Diddy Kong.
Strange Timing. Is held at the same height as lightweights like Kirby, but has the timing as heavyweights. BThrow Hobbling works, and can be grab released into things. (UpSmash, regrabs, etc.)
See: Fox/Falco. If you try to BThrow hobble him, he can reflector if you don't react fast enough to wakeup.
Same timing as heavyweights, oddly enough.
Seems to work the same as Jigglypuff...for whatever reason. DThrow to FThrow is the most reliable.
*Needs more testing* Seems simliar to Zelda.

What would we do without our lovely female IC main, we love you nana. oh... and you too Bunny haha

Just compiled a list quickly for the whole cast:

Mario, Marth, Luigi, Diddy Kong, Zelda, Sheik, Pit, Ivysaur, Peach, Lucario

1. Fthrow -> Fthrow
2. Bthrow -> Fthrow

Donkey Kong, Link, Charizard, Snake, Yoshi, Ganondorf, King Dedede, Wario, ROB

1. Dthrow -> Fthrow(Footstool Bthrow Iceblock at end of stage)

Samus, Ike, Wolf, Bowser, Captain Falcon

1. Fthrow -> Fthrow
2. Footstool Bthrow Iceblock

Kirby, Pikachu, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Lucas, Ness, Olimar, Jigglypuff

1. Bthrow->Dthrow
2. Fthrow->Fthrow
3. Bthrow->Bthrow

Fox, Falco

1. Bthrow -> Fthrow(or just solo popo dthrow chain )

,Travv <3

 

[momochuu]

I can probably complete this by the time I go to bed. Give me an hour or so.

 

[r3d d09]

I can probably complete this by the time I go to bed. Give me an hour or so.

That'd be nice. and what i might also do is do a separate list in this thread for weight classes so we can have a "general CG" for each class with names. Cut back on more Q & A.

 

[momochuu]

Don't worry, I got this. ;]

 

[r3d d09]

with my contributions and dedication... i feel like i need a promotion

and good job. I feel like i get the little things rolling around here. like all of our activity. well... what we had of it during the summer. but it is definitely better than it was no doubt haha


EDIT: also include hobbles/wobbles. and stuff if it's easier. etc. snake.
and also on diddy/snake. post the retreating grab. I can see this being asked in the future as well.

 

[momochuu]

This is a list of chaingrabbing methods that work best on each character. Each character usually uses the same grab methods as other characters in their weight class but there are some oddities like Ganondorf, Zelda, and Jigglypuff.

Notes:
*b.*Throw* = Buffered throw

For b.FThrow to DThrow, allow Popo to FThrow to Nana. If done vice-versa, the Throws are very hard to space.

Finishers:

Lightweights- UpSmash from Popo (leader) kills at ~100% most of the time from the top.
Middleweights- UpSmash from Popo (leader) kills at ~110-120% most of the time from the top.
Heavyweights- Reverse FSmash to kill from the sides seems to work best. Killing them from the top seems to take as long as ~140% with good DI.




Buffered Forward Throw. Back Throw Hobbling doesn't work on Bowser because of his strange fall animation. The Ice Block actually gives him options like rolling and using a get-up attack. BThrow to FThrow is fine as well, but it has awkward timing.
b.Forward Throw or BThrow to FThrow. Just like most heavyweights, FThrow to BThrow has strange timing. Back Throw Hobbling also works, but will take much longer.
b.DThrow to FThrow/FThrow to BThrow/FThrow to DThrow all work well on Diddy Kong. Choose whatever is preferred by you.
Same properties as Bowser except for the fact that he can be BThrow Hobbled.
The spacies have pretty awkward timing on BThrow. DThrow to BThrow or b.DThrow to FThrow works.
Same as Falco, but he has more fall speed on his DThrow. You can chain him to high percents with DThrow with a solo Ice Climber.
BThrow to DThrow works.
Very awkward BThrow timing. DThrow has awkward fall speed. Just BThrow hobble or b.FThrow.
BThrow to FThrow or BThrow Hobble. Very slow DThrow timing just like most heavyweigts.
BThrow is very strange for her. FThrow and DThrow are the same as other characters. b.FThrow to DThrow works.
Same as Donkey Kong.
Easiest character to chaingrab. All forms of chaingrabs work. b.BThrows/FThrow to BThrow/DThrow to BThrow/b.FThrow to DThrow all work and are extremely easy to perform.
Strangely enough, his chaingrab timing is similar to characters like DK and Dedede. The same chaingrabs are preferred on him.
Almost dead Middleweight. FThrow to BThrow are preferred.
Fairly difficult. b.FThrow to DThrow or BThrow hobbling work the best.
Almost the same as Lucario. DThrow works slightly faster, however. FThrow to BThrow is still the best.
Same as Luigi.
Same as Mario/Luigi.
Seems to have his own weight class. Pretty similar to Kirby, but BThrow timing on him is noticeably stricter. BThrow to DThrow is the preferred throw.
Same as Lucas.
Same as Kirby.
Same as Mario/Luigi/Marth.
Almost the same as Kirby. Timing is slightly stricter on BThrow. BThrow to DThrow works extremely well.
Same as Mario/Luigi/Marth/Peach.

Almost the same as Kirby. BThrow timing is slightly stricter. BThrow to DThrow is preferred.
Same as Mario/Luigi/Peach/Marth
Same as Bowser/DK.
Has timing very similar to Snake. FThrow is hard to space, BThrow timing is hard, and DThrow is hard to do because of the awkward fall speed. BThrow Hobbling is easiest and works the best.
Has very strange timing. FThrow is the same as heavyweights like Bowser, but BThrow and DThrow have strange timing. BThrow to FThrow works best. Or BThrow Hobbling.
:shiek: Same similar timing to the spacies.
Similar to R.O.B. BThrow Hobbling works well. Watch for Grenades when doing a BThrow Hobble. If you pivot grab him away from Grenades, that threat is gone.
Has similar timing as Mario/Luigi/Peach/Marth.
Same timing as Diddy Kong.
Strange Timing. Is held at the same height as lightweights like Kirby, but has the timing as heavyweights. BThrow Hobbling works, and can be grab released into things. (UpSmash, regrabs, etc.)
See: Fox/Falco. If you try to BThrow hobble him, he can reflector if you don't react fast enough to wakeup.
Same timing as heavyweights, oddly enough.
Seems to work the same as Jigglypuff...for whatever reason. DThrow to FThrow is the most reliable.
*Needs more testing* Seems simliar to Zelda.

Edit: Man, did I seriously just ****ing write this? x.x; *Dies*

 

[r3d d09]

yes, you just seriously did that. xD want a snack? i can bake you something delicious and nutritious :D\

Thanks for the works. . . now what should i have you do

EDIT: get this stickied or added in the CG master thread or what ever we call it >.>

Go get some sleep bunny, you did a satisfying job for the time given.

 

[Snipa4800]

Its all personal preference....I don't see the point to this thread.

 

[momochuu]

There are actually some chaingrabs that are better to use. This thread is basically just suggesting which ones work best.

 

[EverAlert]

We have way too many stickies. :/

I agree with Snipa, it's mainly personal preference. 99% of the character-specific quirks are things that don't work, not things that work better. Including hobbling is iffy imo, on FD it is easily escapable taking <50%, less on others stages and even less with FThrow hobble.

tbh I disagree with most of Bunny's list. In most cases not for the throw but the reasoning behind them. lol my list would be like 50% FThrow. btw I suggest BThrow DThrow for ZSS, or some combination of those.

Link/Yoshi/Wario having the timing of heavyweights is not strange; they are heavyweights.

That said, this still has merits. It's definitely a good starting point for Climbers mains. I just don't think it should be used as a definitive guide.

Just my 2c.

 

[swordgard]

Ahah, well this is kinda good. However there are a couple of problems with this. To know whats the timing for every char, there are 2 things which are used. The timing for the throw is purely weight dependent, which is why i always carry a weight list with me at tourneys. Also, for fthrow, the timing never really changes, it simply gets stricter depending on the size of the opponents char. Ideally, i also try to have different cgs from low to high %, for example vs MK its very hard to dthrow to dthrow at very low %, and dthrow to back throw has some lag when nana has to shield. Therefore i would use fthrow to fthrow. Not only that, but backthrows on most stuff wil give you a chance to trip, which is never good. Hobbling is also bad when used non stop as at low % you will get mashed out, and at high % after a couple of try your out with SDI.


Finally killing %, use an approximation, but you cannot in any way say light weight is this, mid weight is this, heavy is this. This is because weight is only launch resistance, while falling speed is decelartion, so it must be done on a case by case basis.

 

[l!nk_aut]

the best cg for every character is the cg you´re most comfortable with. anything else is just pointless

i don´t think such a list is needed. there are so many different ways to cg. and there are exactly as many opinions about "what is the best cg for xy character" as ic mains are out there.

 

[swordgard]

the best cg for every character is the cg you´re most comfortable with. anything else is just pointless

i don´t think such a list is needed. there are so many different ways to cg. and there are exactly as many opinions about "what is the best cg for xy character" as ic mains are out there.

I agree with this except on a few exceptions: Avoid running cgs, avoid hobbling(low%=slow, high=SDI-able over time), do not use too many backthrows unless you use the ones where you do a slow turn around(not the running one where you can trip). Also, back throw to dthrow is kinda slow vs some chars due to delay where nana shields, so avoid it unless you time it so that it doesnt shield.

 

[momochuu]

Guys. The list isn't saying "Do this chaingrab or you're not doing it right.". It's a simple suggestion on what to do. You don't have to follow this list at all if you don't want. Every other day someone asks in the Q and A thread "What chaingrab do I use on *character*?". This makes everything a lot easier.


Again, you don't have to follow this if you don't want. It's for newer Ice Climbers mains trying to see what chaingrabs work best against who until they find out a better way for themself.

 

[EverAlert]

Hey, that's cool with me as long as it's clear in the OP that they're just suggestions. :3

Last thing I want is some newbie telling me I'm wrong and to use X chaingrab CUZ ITS BETRER. xD

 

[r3d d09]

*sigh* I think bunny and i only understand the purpose of this thread >.>

And add E_A because, well. he's bomb xD

My intent of this was to minimize the amount of crap we get in the Q&A.
and this doesn't have to be stickied. but definitely linked in the CG thread or what ever we have. a master thread of links for IC's.

and I was asking for the best players/most knowledgable opinions(Texas, bunny*thanks for your help*, meep and lain). No offense to up and coming pros

I didn't want this to be a flame thing. so if you begin to flame. get out. please. I'm such a nice person, but when people put forth time to do stuff and you bash it. it's uncalled for.

 

[Firestormzero0]

I Understand this thread and i think its a great idea! :D much <3 for all you guys! haha

 

[r3d d09]

Glad another person appreciates it >.>

 

[swordgard]

*sigh* I think bunny and i only understand the purpose of this thread >.>

And add E_A because, well. he's bomb xD

My intent of this was to minimize the amount of crap we get in the Q&A.
and this doesn't have to be stickied. but definitely linked in the CG thread or what ever we have. a master thread of links for IC's.

and I was asking for the best players/most knowledgable opinions(Texas, bunny*thanks for your help*, meep and lain). No offense to up and coming pros

I didn't want this to be a flame thing. so if you begin to flame. get out. please. I'm such a nice person, but when people put forth time to do stuff and you bash it. it's uncalled for.

Did you just call hylian texas XD Hes the only one whos name was replaced by region XD XD.

 

[r3d d09]

Did you just call hylian texas XD Hes the only one whos name was replaced by region XD XD.

I certainly did :D
I have friends that call him that.

Example. Woah, you watched texas play via webcam. lucky

funny i know

 

[Hylian]

People call me Texas o.o.


Whoa.

 

[r3d d09]

Shocker isn't it

 

[Steel]

Does anyone use bthrow to bthrow for anyone?

 

[r3d d09]

I'm try and apply B throw to b throw on light-midweight.

 

[MarthFanatique]

So, well done on the suggestions; I don't main IC's or really have any interest in doing so; nevertheless, this thread is an interesting tidbit of information on IC CG's. Kudos to you for making it.

 

[r3d d09]

Thanks, I will tell Bunny you like it as well.

 

[momochuu]

Yayyy somebody that doesn't **** on my work.

 

[TheOgbot]

I think it's great Bunny, it's a great resource for newbies to learn one of the deadliest ATs and apply it effectively.

I'd high five you but I can't do that on the internet :/

 

[r3d d09]

She wants her High Five... just mail it xD

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Posting so i can get the info later.

 

[r3d d09]

i gave it to you in chat and just print it. that's what i did.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But i'm gonna be practicing them in my room right next to a laptop, so i can just have it open lol

 

[Snipa4800]

But i'm gonna be practicing them in my room right next to a laptop, so i can just have it open lol

ESAM practicing the IC? Welcome to the dark side , youll have to show me what you can do this saturday at zp.

 

[Zero Hour]

If this thread had video links to each suggested CG, then it would be truely helpfull... however i havn't heard to buffered Fthrow to Dthrow... so i don't know if thats actualy a good option.

 

[EverAlert]

Well Bunny suggested it, so it's probably wrong.

... jk Bunny it was a joke, calm down! xP

But yeah if you don't want to follow the list then don't, the best one is whatever you feel most comfortable with. They're just suggestions. No combination is (significantly) better than another except in rare circumstances.

 

[r3d d09]

wario, snake, and a few others i started to use specific grabs on. haha. none of the others would work for me haha

 

[EverAlert]

I find BThrow on Wario really hard for some reason. So I hobble when I need to reverse an FThrow chain instead. xD

 

[r3d d09]

hylian said to use Fthrow to Dthrow i believe. and that works for me. that Bthrow is a doozy

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Why would you f-throw D-throw, its more distance than F-throw f-throw?

 

[momochuu]

Using the same throw over and over stales it very quickly.