What can Marth do against a Shiek?

[REDRAGON]

uptilt, bair, fair...

continue from there! XD

your sig is scandalous my friend
*closes eyes and runs away*

Anyway, Marth can take on a Sheik if they know what they are doing. Granted, its not an easy fight, but one that CAN be one!

 

[Randizzle]

counter is really dangerous when you're fighting sheik. Missed counter = grab, smash, tilt, whatever the sheik feels like doing to you.

Shield grabbing doesn't interrupt combos. When you're getting comboed, you can't shield.

 

[Kel]

Sheik aim for grabs. This means that a sheik will wait for you to shffl a fair and then go from there. This is where stuff gets tricky because Sheik's spot dodge AND roll are super quick and have lots of invincibility. So, when you shffl that fair, bait the sheik to grab or want a grab. Since the sheik wants a grab, she HAS to come from the ground. Marth's Dtilt is great against sheik when she's on the ground. From there, it's experience.

The same goes when sheik is approaching with her fair like marth would. The sheik will have almost no lag, so don't just sheild grab because they'll spotdode and then you get grabbed. You really want grabs, but not at the expense of being grabbed.

Marth has no 'automatic' combos, or 'for sure' things to do to a sheik once she's grabbed. If a sheik gets around 3-4 grabs, your life will be done. You, however, can keep grabbing and won't get anywhere. The reason you want grabs is to catch her without a jump. If you can get her without a jump you can continue comboing her. Even if she goes for a ledge, KEEP IN MIND SHE HAS NO JUMP. Often times you can dtilt or just fsmash a sheik that has no jumps who is going to the ledge. Remember, the VERY BEGINNING of her upb you can hit her. So if she has no jumps Fair her, neutral B her, Dtilt, fsmash.... anything to keep her away from the stage. If she has no jump, she'll die.

But what if she has a jump and you're edge-guarding? Grab the edge. Sheik wants that ledge. If she's far away and she re-poofs after her up-b, she's vulnerable there too. HIT HER! If she's angling down with the up-b, you can't hit her with a move so don't leave yourself open over that.

So you have the edge and she repoofs....get back on and smash her off or grab her and throw her off. If the sheik trys to recover vertically just remember that she can't travel horizontally after that so regrab the edge or stay there. This rule applies to vertically up-Bing Zeldas too. Also, if the sheik is coming from a lower angle and trying to poof onto the stage, sometimes they'll accidently DI into the ledge and she will fall to her doom. Even your get up off ledge will edgehog this. Sheik is pretty easily edgehogged at points. She can reappear and you can grab the edge right after that, so try to trick her like that.

I'm sorry if I had lots of run-on sentences. Just ask if you need clarification. Mostly, just play as many sheiks as possible so you can get used to her. She's hard to beat, but not impossible....it's just no fun because she gets away with murder and you die in about 4 grabs.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya the last was pretty good advice...what i'm wondering is whether it's worth full jump approaching sheik..it occurs to me i rarely try it..is that because it doesn't work? i don't remember...in general marth has a nice air game vs sheik ..but i guess it's just too dangerous for sheik to get directly below you and upair since your dair probably won't compete.

anyways, only thing i really wanted to post
is that if anything dash attack has become even better at upper level play..it's no longer spammed as much..but watch kdj...the trick is to use the dash attack as a player attempts to leave the ground in a jump (it's fast enough you can react) or use it before they can touch down...just don't use it as much on grounded opponents..and even then..sometimes if you go through them you can get away with it..

 

[Aether_Lord]

I just hate it when she chain grabs me tilts i play air games pretty well against a sheik but i can't stand those grabs and tilts

 

[offtheheezay10]

I've been fighting against problems against Shiek players ever since I entered the tournament scene about a year and a half ago. The needles are a pain, but you'll learn to break them. My biggest problem however was breaking that accursed chain grab and beating tech chasing. The mind games part posted by Emblem Lord earlier can really help u break a tech chaser, as far as the chain grab. U can get out of it. Push up in an angle opposite of the direction the chain-grabbing Sheik is facing and then release back to middle and then try to time a jump out of it. It can get u out of the chain grsb, and while u may get hit, it saves a lot of frustration and damage. Also spacing is key to defeating sheiks, with an emphasis on uptilts and f smashes with a tipper.

 

[knightpraetor]

so my question is how do you respond to fair then? do you tend to shield it? do you just not grab and wait for the spot dodge? or do you roll away...just curious whether you decide to play the game of grab/spot dodge..since sheik's grab game is better it's probably not worth playing..but if you always roll away you'll start to get predictable as well..not sure what all sheik can follow up with..but even so.

do you try to just avoid getting trapped in the shield at all? ie dash away from where she's landing the fair if you have time?

 

[mog87]

what a coincidence http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108183

 

[TierWhore]

i don't have time to read the whole thread, so sorry if this is has already been said, but in terms of edgegaurding the sheik, if the sheik still has a jump and tries to jump onto the stage while you are still hanging on the edge, you can ledgehop nair to knock them off again, i've done this and seen m2k do this a thousand times vs KDJ, so i no it works.

 

[LeifusYourGod]

ok, i play shiek and a buddy of mine plays marth so heres somethings that he does to get me sometimes. first off, up-tilt, up-tilt makes the areal approach of any shiek a ***** and a half. second off dont be afraid to throw in some counters (down b for those who for some reason dont know). this is a really good strategy because when a shiek gets you into a combo they try to keep the pressure on, and if u throw that in it can turn the tides. along with that its a great move to throw in every now and then when shieks below you. dont use it too much or the shiek will know when ur gonna do it, but i think that goes without saying. third off grabs/shield grabs, i think these ones go without saying. well i hoped this helped

-Leif

 

[Corax]

After playing with some professional sheiks on accident >.> (aka at cons and stuff) I can safely say that Emblem Lord's tip (XD ah **** pun!) on Sheiks worth.
It being, when the sheik is off stage edge hog. If she tries to sweet spot, well she's dead. If she tries to go over you (which you pretty much forced her to do), roll back on and forward smash.
The lag of you rolling back on the stage is by far shorter than her recovery landing lag.

A thing that I've seen all marth players do in vids is to keep the Sheik above you. I forget why, but keeping the sheik above you has been a great help in fighting her for me.

 

[LeifusYourGod]

keep her above marth is good because all of marths priority is above him. just look how he swings his sword, and where the hit boxes are.

 

[knightpraetor]

The problem isn't that I'm addicted to Smash Brothers;
the problem is that you are not addicted to Smash Brothers

lol, love your sig...today i was thinking how bad it is that i'm so addicted to this game..but i've been looking at all wrong..it's their fault for being "normal" and not addicted

 

[Corax]

XD off topic but very true. I don't see how you can't be addicted to this game anyway. Its sooo great.

Back on topic though, against sheik and alot of people who have anti-marth grab combos (like fox), practicing and thinking up good shield guessing games is a must.
I have no idea how many times I've done an empty short hop to waveland grab, but everytime I use it, the reward far out weighs the risk you take.

 

[lexxil]

After playing with some professional sheiks on accident >.> (aka at cons and stuff) I can safely say that Emblem Lord's tip (XD ah **** pun!) on Sheiks worth.
It being, when the sheik is off stage edge hog. If she tries to sweet spot, well she's dead. If she tries to go over you (which you pretty much forced her to do), roll back on and forward smash.
The lag of you rolling back on the stage is by far shorter than her recovery landing lag.

A thing that I've seen all marth players do in vids is to keep the Sheik above you. I forget why, but keeping the sheik above you has been a great help in fighting her for me.

Where can I find those tips ? ^^

 

[okami473]

You can die