What can Marth do against a Shiek?

[Aether_Lord]

Hi, i looked around before i posted this thread so it saves a lot of people to tell me, "Use the Search Function". I was wondering what are Marths suppose to do against a Shiek. I dont really have much moves to do against a Shiek so i use Falco against a Shiek..... Would someone explain to me what to do against a Shiek making the match go on to a 50% chance for both players?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Would someone explain to me what to do against a Shiek

Switch to Falco.

Juss playin, personally I think that there is a lot of useful things marth can do. Utilts work very well against sheik, and you can chain them together and finish with an fsmash.

Ken combos work well against sheik too. Against fox and falco Ken combos are definitely possible, but imo sheik's are just easier to ken combo.

Another thing Marth has on Sheik is edgeguarding. Hold on to the ledge, roll back on after sheik just initiated her Up B, and then Fsmash her off. Granted due to certain factors this won't work every time, but it works a lot.

Also, i've never played a high level sheik, but what I've noticed is that a lot of sheik players dash attack. A lot. Just shieldgrab it. I don't know if you play with higher level players, but this is just from my experience. Another thing that works well on sheiks that like to shieldgrab is pivot forward smash. Just dash out of range of the dash attack, then pivot fsmash the other way.

IMO, what makes this match hard for Marth is a combination of a lot of things, but it's due largely in part to the fact that Marth can't gay sheik like he can fox, falco or Marth, but Sheik CAN gay Marth. Just be careful, and be patient, but when i say patient, i don't mean camp. Sheik's needle camping is gay, and chances are it will outcamp your fair/grab camping.

 

[hellsoldierx15]

if you can juggle shiek in the air with your aerial attacks, thats definatly a way to approach a nasty shiek. advance shieks will try to slow you down with needles, so just counter those. the ken combo works very well...if you can pull it off.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Nothing will ever make this match up 50/50 for both. At best its 60/40 in Sheik's favor.

 

[Giggidax]

u can own shieks recovery very bad lol!!!!

edgehog, force them to UP-B onto the stage, wavedash from the ledge > fsmash (tippered preferrably).
EDIT: i saw this one video where this marth just owned a shiek. everytime the shiek got knocked off, she couldnt return because of this very method i explained


but marth is a floaty and shiek can combo the heck out of u. so space carefully, u outrange her by a longrun!!

 

[Zankoku]

Only noob Sheiks repeatedly approach with dash attacks. And when they do use a dash attack, they better know how to cross-up.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Upthrow to up-tilts at low to mid percents...thats basicly all I do..I catch them with up-tilts then combo from there.

 

[Reese]

You have to be very carefull with spacing because sheik does horrid things to marth if you are grabbed.
You have stay close enough to her to avoid her needles, but not so close as to get grabbed.

 

[gongbomb]

You should generally try to stay under the shiek. She has a horrible dair which means easy up tilts, uairs and juggling in general.

 

[Aether_Lord]

So basically I just try to avoid shieks needles,grab,and combo starters. use my sword to my advantage at close quarter combat but not close enough to get grabs but not far enough for a good "getting needled distance"?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

F-throw, F-throw, up-throw, up-tilt then **** her...

thats what I do for each stock really..unless they are good sheiks that actually have some consideration about their playing style.

 

[Aether_Lord]

When you mean "their" style you mean shiek or Marth player?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

The sheik, most shieks are mostly offensive and rarely if ever go defensive...at least the ones I play. they see marth and go "OHHHH!" and immediately think hes combo city and don't show any consideration for his ability to own her.

 

[Aether_Lord]

Ah i gotcha. yeah they have good considerations about their fighting style. Shiek users i play around here i mean. they band my Falco cuz i read things on forums and know how to use him ._. thnx

 

[thebluedeath1000]

lol...you mean ban?

No offensive but if they banned falco, they really don't considering they wouldn't change up in a way to do better against him.

Just stay under them like someone else said and spam up-tilts if they try to attack from above.

Try to put them in the air without their second jump and just follow them offstage with f-airs, keeping your jump to make it back and edgehog.

 

[Aether_Lord]

hey i have spelling issues ok >.> so be quiet! and thnx for the tip ill try that tomorrow against ppl at my school^^ now signing off

 

[Randizzle]

The basic idea against sheik is that you just have to play a lot smarter and take advantage of every comboing opportunity that you can get. It's a very tough matchup, but at least sheik falls to combos fairly easily. Avoid getting grabbed, space yourself well, and really punish the sheik for any mistakes. Whiffing any attack can prove very costly for marth. If the sheik is close to skill level as the marth, the sheik should expect to win well over 50%. Hopefully in a tourney, you'll only have to deal with this once if you lose, assuming you can counterpick.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Randizzle is right..I just counterpick sheik as the matchup is entirely too simple, it involves chaingrabbing...and...more grabbing...and...a few needles.

 

[REDRAGON]

Only noob Sheiks repeatedly approach with dash attacks. And when they do use a dash attack, they better know how to cross-up.

This is sooooooo true.
Its seems the better the sheik the less dash attacks they use and the more grabs insted.....

But the more advanced you get the less Sheik has advantages on you...

 

[Silver Sytos]

Is battlefield a good stage to fight against shiek?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I wouldn't go to battlefield for the reason of sheik getting under me and using platforms to vertical kill...only platforms I like are on yoshi's story.

or you can like battlefield for the fact your sword takes up alot of the stage...

 

[Randizzle]

battlefield isn't a bad stage against sheik, but both characters can do pretty well on it. You just have to play smart and don't get above the sheik. Remember to use the fact that your sword easily goes through the platforms. Interestingly, bf is one of my favorite stages to play when i'm playing as sheik... (although not necessarily against marth)
I personally favor yoshi's story or sometimes even FoD over battlefield in this.

Redragon, that just isn't completely true. Good sheiks use dash attack all the time, the main difference is that they are a lot less predictable and punishable about it and yes, they do grab a **** ton.

In tourneys I usually just pull out my own sheik if I'm having difficulty against a sheik with marth, but sheik dittos are really boring (grab grab grab grab...) so I also sometimes play fox.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Randizzle, sheik dittos are fun! lol

and yeah, he went into detail basicly about the stages abit..I'd go for story or fod over battlefield.

 

[Aether_Lord]

In battlefield wouldnt it be easier for shiek to Fair you when youre wide open at a platform?

 

[Zankoku]

Randizzle would never be caught counterpicking Battlefield with Marth, lol. But that's for a reason entirely unrelated to the matchup.

The platforms on Battlefield, FoD, and Yoshi's Story help Sheik's aerials and combos, and help Marth in swinging his tipper hitbox from the level below Sheik. It's really down to who can use/abuse them more, and better.

Dash attack is still useful at the high levels of Sheik play, it's just not the only auto-combo starter that's used. I mean, look at Drephen. He loves the move.

I agree with what some of the others said, Sheik is generally vulnerable if you can keep her above you in a combo.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I could have sworn my f-smash doesn't reach the platforms on battlefield for tippers...then again, I don't play that stage lol..

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I could have sworn my f-smash doesn't reach the platforms on battlefield for tippers...then again, I don't play that stage lol..

Fsmash tippers on all the neutral stages but DL64 - yes, even battlefield. I do think that less of the fsmash sticks through the platform to tip on battlefield than on, say, yoshi's story. Also, I am unsure if the platform section in the changed form of Poke Stadium can be tippered. I think it can, though.

 

[FrostByte]

Platforms don't help sheik's combo potential that much anyway since she doesn't have any priority underneath her. They also help you to not get kickslapped after her dthrow. I think sheik may have trouble sweetspotting the ledge too so that's a + to your edgeguarding game, Marth's major weakness against Sheik.

 

[Giggidax]

Also, I am unsure if the platform section in the changed form of Poke Stadium can be tippered. I think it can, though.

they can, very so

 

[Aether_Lord]

I forgot that marth was a guy who mains aerial play^^;, but anyways. I tried what you guys said about being underneath and stuff and utilt him. I would be lieing if i said "It Worked the shieks never stood a chance!" but unfortunatly It just "Help me A whole Lot!" but thats because ill need to practice

 

[Hydde]

Even when fox and falco are practically the punish masters of melee, the battle against sheik is maybe the toughest for marth.

You need to play very carefully, and have an approaching plan. Offensive sheiks are dangeorus, but camping sheiks are worse IMO, specially the ones who can switch to an offensive stance and kill you fast. Needles suscks.

If ucan, get a grab on sheik at low %, up thorw her and up tilt until u think is enough. I usually try con fair her after the uptilt combos, and sometimes u can even shfll the fairs into a Fsmash.

If u manage to get her offguard(not CCing) , sometimes the dancing blade thrid hit (up B) can lead to a tipper smash.

The most important thing against sheik is to not get grabbed, yet this si the most difficult task. Sheik can do anything to marth from a grab, ending in lots of % with a single grab combo.

Sheik is gay

 

[JesiahTEG]

I personally like Battlefield against sheik. But, the worst stage for marth against sheik...is final destination. ugh

 

[Randizzle]

platforms are nice against sheik when they give you something to tech on after she dthrows you.

 

[spoonyd]

I personally like Battlefield against sheik. But, the worst stage for marth against sheik...is final destination. ugh

Glad you posted on this man cause I need some help in this area. My buddy has basically no tech skill and can handle my Marth 60/40 pretty easily. FD is terrible for Marth in this matchup. He needle camps and rolls a TON and I just can't break through it often enough. Sure he doesn't have tech skill but knows how to be REALLY gay with Sheik including a LOT of needles against my recovery too.

He doesn't even shield grab but just rolls away and continues the needles or grabs me. It's like the most boring and frustrating thing in the world to lose to. There isn't anything I can't do with Marth now but not sure on the right course of action against this. So frustrating to not be able to punish this sorta garbage and continuous rolling.

Emblem Lord, I also know you know what you're talking about so shoot some suggestions my way as well. Not that I'm shooting other people away or something but I guess I just see your posts a lot. Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[Brightside6382]

Lies, Marth cant do ANYTHING. If you play a Shiek just lay down your controller and wait for your counter-pick. Pick Fox... THE END

 

[Randizzle]

there's plenty that marth can do. surely you've seen Ken or M2K fight good sheiks with marth. It's a very tough battle, but it's definitely possible.

 

[shminkledorf]

Sheik wins on ground, marth wins in air. Keep sheik in air, abuse the fair, basically.

 

[Retroking2000]

Sheik wins on ground, marth wins in air. Keep sheik in air, abuse the fair, basically.

the odds of winning dramatically change when marth is airbone (^.^)

 

[Joe_Sumo]

shield grabbing is awsome for interupting sheiks combos. learning to tech is a must for escaping combos too. i used to get owned by a somewhat newby sheik, then i learned to tech and he doesnt stand a chance.

use your range and if they get overly aggressive, counter its really funny. muhaha!!
Also know the distance of your fair very well becaise sheiks fair is very nasty but you have more range.

Ive never had a huge amount of trouble with the knives. just run in and shffl nair.

 

[BigRick]

uptilt, bair, fair...

continue from there! XD