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What Are Your Unpopular Gaming Opinions? (Ver. 2)

FallenHero

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If the Megaman series ever makes a comeback, I think it would be best to move away focus from the classic Megaman series and make more games focusing on the Megaman X, Zero, and ZX type of gameplay. I've never really played much of the classic series, but in my opinion, the Megaman Zero and ZX games are the most fun to play. That most likely comes from my love of playing as characters with good movement and just running through a level destroying everything in my path.
 
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  • Sonic Adventure is a better game then Sonic Adventure 2, in terms of the character playstyles they share (those being Sonic, Knuckles and Gamma's playstyles) and the level design. The radar alone utterly kills the Knuckles and Rouge stages for me and makes stages like Pumpkin Hill and Mad Space just unbearable at times. Tails and Eggman just lack the flow of Gamma, especially in midair, and they just feel clunkier overall. The speed stages are the best part of the game, yeah, but they still have such an emphasis on going forwards that I kinda feel a bit disinterested with them at times. I just find SA2 lacking in comparison to the original game.

  • Speaking of those two games, I stick to the opinion that Sonic 06 is the real Sonic Adventure 3, no matter what people say otherwise. Just looking at the games, you can just tell that they're the same cloth; multiple stories with different playable characters, gaining collectibles after beating a stage with certain conditions, the very gameplay style is right out of the original Sonic Adventure, the emphasis on story and introduction of new characters into the Sonic canon...the only way they could have made the connection more apparent is by actually calling it SA3.

    It's not like the other two Sonic Adventure games were gems of programming bliss, either; 06 just happens to be the worst of the three in regards to shoddy programming.
 

Opossum

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Unpopular opinions? Okay. Here are some of mine, off the top of my head.

- I really couldn't get into Xenoblade Chronicles. Granted, maybe it just had a slow start, but it could also be that I much prefer turn-based RPGs to action RPGs.

- Animal Crossing is incredibly boring. It's charming, yeah, and it has neat quirky characters, but as a game I can't stand it. Life Sims in general aren't my forte, but having my villagers leave and weeds ransack my town because heaven forbid I didn't play the game in a while is awful. That and I can't really get behind a game that's literally about doing simple chores...I play games to get away from that. :p The only part in New Leaf that appealed to me was collecting things for the museum. I loved that. If the games were just that I'd love it a lot more.

- I don't mind the New Super Mario Bros. games. It's obvious to me that Nintendo wants one available per system since obviously not every consumer has every system ever. That, and they're solid platformers.

- Team Rocket is second only to Team Flare as the worst Pokémon villainous team, though this is likely a product of their time. That doesn't mean I can't criticize it though.

- Going off of that, as far as region appearance and geography, Kanto and Johto are easily the worst. Straight, linear paths and virtually no topographic variety. Bleh. In this regard, Sinnoh is my favorite.

- Unova is easily my favorite region over all and Black and Black 2 are my favorite Pokémon games (though Moon is coming scarily close to joining them).

- I'm happy AM2R got taken down. Making a free version of a game Nintendo sells on their eShop is dumb, regardless of the final product's quality.

- I could never get into F-Zero and vastly prefer Mario Kart when it comes to racing games.

- I'm glad the "face petting" was removed/toned down in the international versions of Fire Emblem Fates. "Artistic integrity" be damned, that ****'s creepy as hell. Fire Emblem isn't Pokémon Amie/Refresh.

- Obligatory "Chrom would have been awesome in Smash wtf Sakurai"

- As someone who really enjoys the character and wants to see him in Smash, people really overstate how "popular" King K. Rool is.

- I find nothing appealing about Yokai Watch, either from a character design or gameplay perspective. People give Pokémon a hard time for guys like Trubbish or Klefki, but tons of the Yokai are recolors and one literally has an ass for a face.

- I legitimately and non-ironically enjoy Minesweeper.
 

FamilyTeam

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Well, the previous post kinda reminded me of something else I wanted to talk about...
Mario Kart. Can someone actually remind me what is the enjoyment you're supposed to get out of this series? Like, no joke. I used to be a really big fan of Mario Kart, but MKWii made me abandon the series and left an extremely sour taste in my mouth.
I was messing around with a few Wii U games in my friends' house once, and I saw MK8. I tried it out thinking that maybe this could bring me back to the games, but I basically just kinda had the dullest 20 minutes of that week while I was playing it. I decided to check MKWii out to see if it was as bad as I remembered it (and trust me, I remember it being pretty bad) and somehow it felt even worse than what I recalled it being, somehow?
After the events of that day, I played SMK and MK64 a tiny bit since those are games I clearly remember enjoying, and I also felt like they were as stimulating to me as watching paint dry. Is this series exciting and MKWii's legacy with me will forever cloud my views on it, or did it only help me realise that maybe they are actually dull as hell?
 

Opossum

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Well, the previous post kinda reminded me of something else I wanted to talk about...
Mario Kart. Can someone actually remind me what is the enjoyment you're supposed to get out of this series? Like, no joke. I used to be a really big fan of Mario Kart, but MKWii made me abandon the series and left an extremely sour taste in my mouth.
I was messing around with a few Wii U games in my friends' house once, and I saw MK8. I tried it out thinking that maybe this could bring me back to the games, but I basically just kinda had the dullest 20 minutes of that week while I was playing it. I decided to check MKWii out to see if it was as bad as I remembered it (and trust me, I remember it being pretty bad) and somehow it felt even worse than what I recalled it being, somehow?
After the events of that day, I played SMK and MK64 a tiny bit since those are games I clearly remember enjoying, and I also felt like they were as stimulating to me as watching paint dry. Is this series exciting and MKWii's legacy with me will forever cloud my views on it, or did it only help me realise that maybe they are actually dull as hell?
For me, personally, it's great for the pick-up-and-play-with-friends aspect mixed with dose of competition and fun. I will say, though, that I like it best in smaller doses and can easily get burnt out by it if I play for too long. To each their own, of course, but those are just my thoughts.
 

FamilyTeam

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For me, personally, it's great for the pick-up-and-play-with-friends aspect mixed with dose of competition and fun. I will say, though, that I like it best in smaller doses and can easily get burnt out by it if I play for too long. To each their own, of course, but those are just my thoughts.
Yeah, nowadays, to think I actually probably sunk some good 100 hours into MKWii, it's just...
how.
I could've spent that time playing Brawl, I had that game, but no, I was playing a game I hated. I think MKWii burning me out alongside me having a distaste for the game in general is what permanently soured me on this series.
It's definitely something you shouldn't play in such long binges.
 

FallenHero

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- Going off of that, as far as region appearance and geography, Kanto and Johto are easily the worst. Straight, linear paths and virtually no topographic variety. Bleh. In this regard, Sinnoh is my favorite.

- Unova is easily my favorite region over all and Black and Black 2 are my favorite Pokémon games (though Moon is coming scarily close to joining them).
THANK YOU. Sinnoh IMO was probably best designed region, but I disagree with what you said about Johto. I enjoy the Sinnoh region for the overall appearance and geography, and even though Johto might not be the best when it comes to geography (people complain about Hoenn having too much water, but at least it didn't have currents all over the place making going through the surfing sections much more annoying to get through), but I think it has the best appearance out of all regions (I have not played Gen 7 yet so I don't know anything about the region). Unova in B&W was easily my least favorite region when it came to exploring it, but B2&W2 made me like the region a lot more with the new areas and changes to older areas.

- I'm glad the "face petting" was removed/toned down in the international versions of Fire Emblem Fates. "Artistic integrity" be damned, that ****'s creepy as hell. Fire Emblem isn't Pokémon Amie/Refresh.
I honestly never really saw it as censorship and just saw it as excluding a dumb feature from the game that I can only imagine really strange people legitimately enjoying unironically. I once got called a censorship apologist by someone on this site on a different thread once just for saying that I didn't care that they removed that.

- Obligatory "Chrom would have been awesome in Smash wtf Sakurai"
The only FE characters I think should have been in the game are Marth, Ike, Robin, and Chrom. Corrin is the only character in Smash 4 that I feel does not belong in the game. He was added into the game before FE:Fates even came out worldwide, and most people never cared about Corrin anyways. The second most voted ballot character should have been added instead of Corrin.

Well, the previous post kinda reminded me of something else I wanted to talk about...
Mario Kart. Can someone actually remind me what is the enjoyment you're supposed to get out of this series? Like, no joke. I used to be a really big fan of Mario Kart, but MKWii made me abandon the series and left an extremely sour taste in my mouth.
I was messing around with a few Wii U games in my friends' house once, and I saw MK8. I tried it out thinking that maybe this could bring me back to the games, but I basically just kinda had the dullest 20 minutes of that week while I was playing it. I decided to check MKWii out to see if it was as bad as I remembered it (and trust me, I remember it being pretty bad) and somehow it felt even worse than what I recalled it being, somehow?
After the events of that day, I played SMK and MK64 a tiny bit since those are games I clearly remember enjoying, and I also felt like they were as stimulating to me as watching paint dry. Is this series exciting and MKWii's legacy with me will forever cloud my views on it, or did it only help me realise that maybe they are actually dull as hell?
Every Mario Kart game I played after MKDS was really only enjoyable when playing with my friends. Playing alone or even online against randoms is just boring and something about the controls in MKWii and MK8 just feels really clunky and weird to me, even without motion controls. The tracks in the newer MK games also just seem uninspired to me for the most part.

Did someone say unpopular gaming opinions?

(OC)
**** you I hate you. (I just joking mods please don't kill me)
 

finalark

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  • Speaking of those two games, I stick to the opinion that Sonic 06 is the real Sonic Adventure 3, no matter what people say otherwise. Just looking at the games, you can just tell that they're the same cloth; multiple stories with different playable characters, gaining collectibles after beating a stage with certain conditions, the very gameplay style is right out of the original Sonic Adventure, the emphasis on story and introduction of new characters into the Sonic canon...the only way they could have made the connection more apparent is by actually calling it SA3.
People don't think that Sonic '06 is Adventure 3? Like, I know that some folks like to hold the Adventure series to a higher standard but '06 is so clearly a Sonic Adventure game gone wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if early in development the game's title actually was Sonic Adventure 3.

- I really couldn't get into Xenoblade Chronicles. Granted, maybe it just had a slow start, but it could also be that I much prefer turn-based RPGs to action RPGs.
I never really got the hype with Xenoblade. Its like MMO game play was introduced to non-MMO players and that entire crowd lost their minds because it was new to them. That style of game has existed since at least 2004, and as a long time MMO addict I found the game stale only a few hours in.

Although the time powers were really neat.

- I could never get into F-Zero and vastly prefer Mario Kart when it comes to racing games.
Honestly I think its apples to oranges. Yes, they're both fruits but their similarities end there. F-Zero is about mastery and challenge where as Mario Kart is designed to be more universally appealing.

- I'm glad the "face petting" was removed/toned down in the international versions of Fire Emblem Fates. "Artistic integrity" be damned, that ****'s creepy as hell. Fire Emblem isn't Pokémon Amie/Refresh.
I could honestly write an entire book on how I hate the artistic direction the Fire Emblem series is going. Less swords and sorcery strategy, more anime archetypes and features to appeal to the general otaku community.

Although on that note, I could probably also write an entire book on why I don't like the direction the entire anime scene took as a whole in the 2010s.
 
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Opossum

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People don't think that Sonic '06 is Adventure 3? Like, I know that some folks like to hold the Adventure series to a higher standard but '06 is so clearly a Sonic Adventure game gone wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if early in development the game's title actually was Sonic Adventure 3.



I never really got the hype with Xenoblade. Its like MMO game play was introduced to non-MMO players and that entire crowd lost their minds because it was new to them. That style of game has existed since at least 2004, and as a long time MMO addict I found the game stale only a few hours in.

Although the time powers were really neat.



Honestly I think its apples to oranges. Yes, they're both fruits but their similarities end there. F-Zero is about mastery and challenge where as Mario Kart is designed to be more universally appealing.



I could honestly write an entire book on how I hate the artistic direction the Fire Emblem series is going. Less swords and sorcery strategy, more anime archetypes and features to appeal to the general otaku community.

Although on that note, I could probably also write an entire book on why I don't like the direction the entire anime scene took as a whole in the 2010s.
Yeah, I get what you mean with the Mario Kart/F-Zero thing. It was just my go-to racing game example in spite of the differences. :p
 

FallenHero

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I feel like if F-Zero ever comes back, it will actually have a fair amount of popularity and not just be an obscure hardcore racing game.
 

Spurdo

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sonic adventure 2 is a legitimately bad game, sonic adventure 1 killed the franchise , super mario sunshine is a bad game, the wind waker exists as nothing but an inferior version of ocarina of time and has nothing going for it beyond the art style, every single zelda game since majora's mask has been a less innovative clone of ocarina of time or a link to the past

and of course, most of the love of all of the games listed above are from nostalgia alone

pokemania died after gen 2, and then pokemon died after gen 4 as they've done basically nothing with the franchise since aside from get more bland and ridiculous. The series' refusal to evolve and appeal to it's large older fanbase has led to a massive, disappointing ball of stagnation.

the art style of Pokemon just keeps getting worse and I miss the old design principles of the original Pokemon

portal 1 is one of the best games ever made and portal 2 is not very good compared to it, in spite of le epik lemons and other xd outrageous may mays that people love so much about the sequel.

overwatch, while a very good game, is literally babby's first multiplayer shooter. in most cases, basic team coordination trumps individual skill in Overwatch and techniques that are advanced in other games are boiled down to the push of a button.

kirby is in desperate need of innovation and I don't know why they still keep making games for him

Bioshock should have never gotten sequels

they need to kill off 2D Mario again so I can quit seeing my darling suffer

and they also need to start doing something good with 3D Mario again because oh lord is he not in a good spot right now. They can't do something as innovative as 64 or mindblowingly awesome as Galaxy anymore, they need something that isn't a bland copy of 2D Marios but in a 3D plane. I also think Mario would benefit from more story and atmospheric elements to keep the player engaged. We are beyond the point where passable gameplay alone can make something good.
 

finalark

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sonic adventure 2 is a legitimately bad game, sonic adventure 1 killed the franchise ,
Hold on there, buddy. This is the unpopular opinions thread. I'm pretty sure these go into the popular opinions thread.

super mario sunshine is a bad game,
Elaborate? I think its a monstrous improvement over Mario 64. Most of Mario 64's later levels are horribly designed, trying to be traditional, execution based levels when for 2/3s of the game you're being taught that the game is more about exploration and less about your ability to pull off tricky jumps and navigate obstacles. Mario Sunshine at least stays true to the exploration focus to the end.

Not to mention that showing you where the Shine Sprite is a godsend. With how obtuse some of Mario 64's stars were it was impossible to get most of them without either a guide or a dickton of time and trial and error.

every single zelda game since majora's mask has been a less innovative clone of ocarina of time or a link to the past
I actually kind of agree to an extent, although I honestly find myself not really enjoying LoZ period these days though.

Especially MM, which I swear to god is only praised because OMG SO DEEP SO DARK SO ART.

the art style of Pokemon just keeps getting worse and I miss the old design principles of the original Pokemon
and of course, most of the love of all of the games listed above are from nostalgia alone
lol

The series' refusal to evolve and appeal to it's large older fanbase has led to a massive, disappointing ball of stagnation.
You get gen 1 starters in XY. They gave Charizard two mega evolutions. Alolan Professor Oak, Red and Blue are all in SM. The TCG just released a set based on the original Base Set. Origins and Generations are specifically designed to appeal to older fans. I'm pretty sure Pokemon has done a ton to pander to its older fans.

overwatch, while a very good game, is literally babby's first multiplayer shooter. in most cases, basic team coordination trumps individual skill in Overwatch and techniques that are advanced in other games are boiled down to the push of a button.
I feel this way about Hearthstone, its baby's first TCG.

I also think Mario would benefit from more story and atmospheric elements to keep the player engaged. We are beyond the point where passable gameplay alone can make something good.
I disagree.

Not every game needs to have a ton of effort put into the narrative. Not every game needs to be dripping with atmosphere. Mario isn't meant to be a big, AAA cinematic game. Mario is just supposed to play well and be simple fun. I honestly think too much stake is put into story these days, to the point where I feel like good game play gets ignored for dumb reasons.

Honestly this is probably because most of the gaming community doesn't know a whole lot about game design so they jump to other factors to explain why the games they like are good.
 
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FamilyTeam

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sonic adventure 2 is a legitimately bad game, sonic adventure 1 killed the franchise
Well yeah, like I actually said before in this thread, having this opinion is actually the norm nowadays, not the exception. I'll just ask what I asked then: What is actually supposed to be so bad about these games? They're far from perfect but I have never actually seen anything reasonable been criticized about either games ever since hating on them became the norm.
the art style of Pokemon just keeps getting worse and I miss the old design principles of the original Pokemon
I don't even like Pokemon anymore and I find that questionable. What design principles? Every generation has cool Pokemon and bad Pokemon. I still like the Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon the best arguably (most my favourites are from those two) but it's not like I don't like anyone from the remaining gens. They've got some pretty neat lil' creatures I ended up liking just as much as anything from the original GB games. We had a Pokeball and an inverted Pokeball for Pokemon in Gen 1, it's not like bad designs weren't always there.
overwatch, while a very good game, is literally babby's first multiplayer shooter. in most cases, basic team coordination trumps individual skill in Overwatch and techniques that are advanced in other games are boiled down to the push of a button.
I have extremely strong opinions about OW myself but I was never able to settle my mind on whether or not I think the game is just really beginner friendly or severely dumbed down. I'd need to actually play the game to work that out, but I'm not willling to shell out a fortune for a game I have no idea I'll like.

Well since I'm speaking of this sort of FPS already, here's an opinion I'm noticing is starting to become rare: TF2 BEING A HARD GAME IS NOT NECESSARILY BAD, PEOPLE.
I know this is the age of inclusion, but not every single FPS game out there needs to be Overwatch. Not every FPS game needs to hold your hand throughout the entire thing and patronize you without you even realising. I find TF2's high learning curve to be one of its defining traits - finding out new stuff about it every time I played was the beauty of it. New strategies, new people, new weapons, new ways to play maps, new techniques, new challenges. That is what kept me coming back to TF2 in the first year I played it (2011-2012), knowing that I knew so little about the game made me want to know more.
Then OW came, it's so simple you can actually give it to children play, and since people love comparing OW to TF2 and people hate high learning curves, and now you see a bunch of people criticizing TF2 for doing what made so many people want to come back and find out more about the game for so long.
And for the record, no: Although I really hate how often OW gets compared to TF2 and how the latter is treated like it's completely obsolete because of the former... it's not at all why my opinions on Overwatch are a bit negative. I tried being impartial but I know Blizzard themselves don't want me to be impartial. I'd rather not explain what I'm talking about.
 

Spurdo

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You get gen 1 starters in XY. They gave Charizard two mega evolutions. Alolan Professor Oak, Red and Blue are all in SM. The TCG just released a set based on the original Base Set. Origins and Generations are specifically designed to appeal to older fans. I'm pretty sure Pokemon has done a ton to pander to its older fans.
I don't mean dangling nostalgia in front of your face, I mean content actually intended for an older audience. Smarter dialogue and storytelling, more complicated stories, characters and themes. The games hold your hand all the way through and the storytelling is so lazy, and the anime is made for literal babies. At this point we pretty much only have the manga for anything resembling something intelligent and even then, that's stretching it. I think a more mature Pokemon story could be really, really good

Especially MM, which I swear to god is only praised because OMG SO DEEP SO DARK SO ART.
You are wrong. Majora has incredible atmosphere and a unique central mechanic that it uses to it's fullest extent to create engaging gameplay and completely flesh out the world and characters. It also shakes everything in Zelda up, by not having Ganon, Zelda, the Triforce, Hyrule and sporting a more nihilistic story that doesn't revolve around your character being a special snowflake and more him being a mere observer. The amount of characters and emotion it conveys, even though it's simplicity, is a sight to behold. I consider it a masterpiece and a fine piece of gaming art.

Not every game needs to have a ton of effort put into the narrative. Not every game needs to be dripping with atmosphere. Mario isn't meant to be a big, AAA cinematic game. Mario is just supposed to play well and be simple fun. I honestly think too much stake is put into story these days, to the point where I feel like good game play gets ignored for dumb reasons.
I will acknowledge good gameplay is most necessary for Mario to succeed, but nowadays there is more to games. Mario has been in a rut of stale mediocrity, and it is a shame to see the most famous video game franchise attempt to do absolutely nothing exceptional. Mario can benefit from being more ambitious in terms of atmosphere. it's not like Mario is a stranger to having a bit more artistic integrity either, just look at Galaxy. Galaxy has incredible scale and atmosphere, nothing like we've ever seen in Mario before or since. The first three Paper Marios are endlessly praised for their storytelling and characters, and you even have to give credit to Sunshine for trying to create a fleshed out game world

Elaborate? I think its a monstrous improvement over Mario 64. Most of Mario 64's later levels are horribly designed, trying to be traditional, execution based levels when for 2/3s of the game you're being taught that the game is more about exploration and less about your ability to pull off tricky jumps and navigate obstacles. Mario Sunshine at least stays true to the exploration focus to the end.

Not to mention that showing you where the Shine Sprite is a godsend. With how obtuse some of Mario 64's stars were it was impossible to get most of them without either a guide or a dickton of time and trial and error.
the missions. they're terrible. all of them. they're all terrible. not to mention the sheer amount of padding and lazy design that went in to the game. you fight Shadow Mario like, 10 times. also, Fludd completely breaks platforming so they had to make each world unnecessarily HUGE with every single gap and ledge being HUGE so Fludd wouldn't make all the platforming in the game a cakewalk.

agree or disagree but at this point we're at the stage where most people who grew up with the Gamecube are everywhere online and praising the Sonics and the two Zelda's. I do not see where the appeal in playing any of those games nowadays is.

also, there is a very clear difference in the art styles and Pokemon designs from Gen 1 to now. I think the earlier gens had a better sense of structure, texturing and subtle detailing for the Pokemon designs. This issue is especially bad when it comes to Pokemon which are supposed to have hair. I didn't know Gardevoir was supposed to have hair until it's 3D rendering for Pokken Tournament, and I remember Bewear confusing the hell out of everybody when it was officially revealed until it's previous evolution, Stufful was revealed making it more obvious that it was supposed to be a stuffed bear. And the infamous route 1 birds? Look at Pidgey compared to the rest, it's got a lot more visible feathers that it looks like they put more effort in to designing.

recent gens also suffer from the issue of having Pokemon comprised of tons of basic shapes yet also have lots of different things going on at once. patterns, random crap sticking out of them, I hate it.
 
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Spurdo

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I don't even like Pokemon anymore and I find that questionable. What design principles? Every generation has cool Pokemon and bad Pokemon. I still like the Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon the best arguably (most my favourites are from those two) but it's not like I don't like anyone from the remaining gens. They've got some pretty neat lil' creatures I ended up liking just as much as anything from the original GB games. We had a Pokeball and an inverted Pokeball for Pokemon in Gen 1, it's not like bad designs weren't always there.
I don't mean the actual idea behind the designs themselves, I mean how they're drawn and depicted. I don't care what they base a Pokemon on, I care about the art style. Pokemon has undeniably gotten a much simpler, rounded art style now.

i will argue muk is a better designed pokemon than goodra by virtue of them actually texturing the thing to look gooey
 
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I like Majora's Mask. It's a solid game, as well as one of my favorite entries in the Zelda series. It has some neat concepts that are executed well. But I wouldn't call it a masterpiece.
 

finalark

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I don't mean dangling nostalgia in front of your face, I mean content actually intended for an older audience. Smarter dialogue and storytelling, more complicated stories, characters and themes. The games hold your hand all the way through and the storytelling is so lazy, and the anime is made for literal babies. At this point we pretty much only have the manga for anything resembling something intelligent and even then, that's stretching it. I think a more mature Pokemon story could be really, really good
I agree, but not to such an extreme extent. I do wish Pokemon would go all the way as an RPG, instead of constantly feeling tugged by its roots to stick to familiarity, but Pokemon exists in an unfortunate space where it has to appeal to both adults and children. Not to mention that most people don't even seem to acknowledge its an RPG.

I'll give Pokemon this, they have been getting better at story telling. DPPt massively expanded the series' lore and mythology, BW focused on characters and examining many themes and elements common to the first four games, SM actually has child abuse as a humongous obstacle two characters have to over come. Granted, as I said before the series is still tied to its roots. In any other JRPG defeating a squid monster in another dimension and seeing some major character arcs resolve would be the pinnacle of the journey. Here I'm told that its just another step before the true finale, because becoming region champ is a thing I gotta do.

Although if you haven't seen it I highly recommend checking out Pokemon Origins and Generations. Effectively, they're a Pokemon anime targeted at a much older audience. I'm really hope Nintendo takes the success of both series as enough reason to turn them into full-length anime.

You are wrong. Majora has incredible atmosphere and a unique central mechanic that it uses to it's fullest extent to create engaging gameplay and completely flesh out the world and characters. It also shakes everything in Zelda up, by not having Ganon, Zelda, the Triforce, Hyrule and sporting a more nihilistic story that doesn't revolve around your character being a special snowflake and more him being a mere observer. The amount of characters and emotion it conveys, even though it's simplicity, is a sight to behold. I consider it a masterpiece and a fine piece of gaming art.
Did I stutter?

So deep, so dark, so art.

Are the levels well designed? Are all of Links various forms fun to play as? Is exploring fun? Is combat fun? Are the puzzles interesting and take effort to solve? Does the clock mechanic add anything to the game or is it more of a hindrance?

I really doubt the clock was added to the game because the Big N wanted to convey atmosphere and doom. I'm pretty sure its there because if the player wasn't forced to restart and replay segments of the game MM would only be like four hours long.

Whenever I see MM talked about its almost exclusively about the same thing. Nihilism, atmosphere, "living" world, emotion. Not once do I ever see anyone talk about the game part of the game. And honestly, if you like the game for the things I just listed more power to you. I still stand by what I say, the game isn't really liked as a game.

agree or disagree but at this point we're at the stage where most people who grew up with the Gamecube are everywhere online and praising the Sonics and the two Zelda's. I do not see where the appeal in playing any of those games nowadays is.
I mean, I played WW, OoT and MM all at the same time when I was a kid. To this day I still think WW is the best of the three, followed by OoT and with MM at the bottom.

That being said, I really just don't see the appeal of playing Zelda period anymore. I think they're fantastic entry points in gaming as a whole, but when you've been around the block a few times and you've seen games do what LoZ does only better there's just not a whole lot of fun to be had with them. I've played games with better exploration, better puzzles, better combat. I just feel like I'm at a point where I've outgrown Zelda.

Although on the other hand I'll boot up my Dreamcast and play through Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 any day of the week because I honestly feel like they're just a ton of fun to play despite their falws.

also, there is a very clear difference in the art styles and Pokemon designs from Gen 1 to now. I think the earlier gens had a better sense of structure, texturing and subtle detailing for the Pokemon designs.
 

Spurdo

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Are the levels well designed? Are all of Links various forms fun to play as? Is exploring fun? Is combat fun? Are the puzzles interesting and take effort to solve? Does the clock mechanic add anything to the game
yes

I told you why the game is good, especially compared to other Zelda titles and you selectively chose bits so you could repeat deep, dark, and arty. it's not even like those things are inherently bad or invalidate MM as a good game, you just keep repeating them.

majora's mask is not only a good game because it uses the gaming medium to it's fullest extent, it's what it does exceptionally. That's why it's so praised.

I really doubt the clock was added to the game because the Big N wanted to convey atmosphere and doom. I'm pretty sure its there because if the player wasn't forced to restart and replay segments of the game MM would only be like four hours long.
they use the three day cycle to create a fully fleshed out world while keeping it totally streamlined.

it's also not really much of a hinderence unless you're really bad at the game. You can get the reverse song of time right after getting the ocarina to make things easier for you too. You also have to keep in mind a large part of Majora's Mask are the side quests, which is where the meat of the story, atmosphere and characterization come from.

if there was a straw man pokemon I'd post a picture of it in response

also, you can still see Golbat's details in that sprite. the way it's wings are designed gives the impression of depth and structure to them. Compare that to Woobat, which just looks plain lazy
 
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FamilyTeam

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Personally I like Hydreigon. I used to hate it and think it was overdesigned but after I used it, I really grew a liking to this Pokemon. I really don't think the series went down in quality of art style that much.
 
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Really, Gen 1 is the worst Gen in terms of style you can get in Pokemon, because everything is so vanilla. They're animals or objects, nothing more; Pikachu's just a mouse with an electricity theme, Blastoise is a tortoise with water cannons, Voltorb and Electrode are sentient balls. None of the Gen 1 'mons are ever really exceptionally non-animal based with the rare exception of the Gastly, Voltorb and Magnemite lines. Everything else can be boiled down to "animal with X".

They're all so bland that I personally think it's the worst Gen in terms of Pokemon designs for being so bland. They only got so much love because they were our first experience with Pokemon. Place Pikachu as a new 'mon in Gen 7 and I assure you people would call it bad because of how bland it is. :p
 

finalark

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if there was a straw man pokemon I'd post a picture of it in response

also, you can still see Golbat's details in that sprite. the way it's wings are designed gives the impression of depth and structure to them. Compare that to Woobat, which just looks plain lazy
Look, geodude is a circle with two rectangles sticking out of it with two more circles on the end of the second rectangle.

Execute is a bunch of circles.

Most of the gen 1 sprites are ugly. The art you're praising likely comes from the FRLG remake art.
 

Spurdo

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Look, geodude is a circle with two rectangles sticking out of it with two more circles on the end of the second rectangle.

Execute is a bunch of circles.

Most of the gen 1 sprites are ugly. The art you're praising likely comes from the FRLG remake art.
You are missing the point. You have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about here

I'm not talking about the theme of the Pokemon. I don't care if it's a Pokeball, a dragon or a keychain. I'm trying to point out a stylistic difference between the original gens and now. It feels like you are deliberately ignoring what I'm saying

And you do realize gens 1 and 2 had official artwork for all their Pokemon too, right?
 
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Spurdo

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Alright, I'm going to illustrate my point using an example from early Pokemon and now

spoilered because it contains lots of images
This is Raichu's original artwork

and this is Raichu from Gen 3, which retains pretty much everything from original Raichu


Now this is the brand new version of Raichu



Alola Raichu is comprised of much more simplier forms than the original Raichu. Notice it's legs. On original Raichu, it's legs greatly resemble the hind legs of any quadruped creature we'd see IRL. This is a sense of anatomy. Yet on alola Raichu it's legs and feet seem to just be blobs that come out from it's body, the arc between it's legs isn't a much more realistic one anymore either, it's just another blob! there's no structure here. Frankly, it looks totally flat. It's new arms are also much more simplistic in shape, and it's new ears lack the impression of dimension the original ones gave off. The edges on alola's tail are also much softer. This might be due to it's intention as a surfboard, but it's still something to note.

Now, granted, the two characters do look more similar in-game. Alola Raichu's legs are fixed in-game, but this is the official artwork. A radical change in art style and design principles for Pokemon has come along.
 
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Rashyboy05

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On the topic of Pokemon, I really dislike Gen 3 for the fact that it forces me to sacrifices team slots just to use HMs.
Gen 5 is my favorite generation in the series
ORAS is better than Ruby and Sapphire
The Pokemon designs in recent generations are better than the older ones.

Non Pokemon related opinion:
The Tactics series are the only fun Final Fantasy games
The non-linearity of A link between Worlds makes me enjoy the game more than most other Zelda games in the series.
 

FallenHero

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On the topic of Pokemon, I really dislike Gen 3 for the fact that it forces me to sacrifices team slots just to use HMs.
Pretty much every generation did this until Gen 5 only had like 6 HM moves if I'm correct and most of them were decent moves to use in battle just for the story, but Gen 3 definitely was the worst offender for that. I remember in Ruby I had to have two HM slaves, which is just ridiculous.

ORAS is better than Ruby and Sapphire
I still don't understand why people hate ORAS so much, I personally thought it was one of the best in the series.

The non-linearity of A link between Worlds makes me enjoy the game more than most other Zelda games in the series.
Before I played that game for the first time I was starting to get burned out on the Zelda series, but that game brought back my interest and made me hope they just never make a linear Zelda game again. Not that the past Zelda games are bad or anything, but I feel Zelda is at its best when the player is given the freedom to explore wherever they want and go through any dungeon they want in any order. Thankfully Breath of the WIld looks like it is going to take the non-linearity of ALBW to another level. I think I remember once hearing that future Zelda games are going to take the direction of non-linearity, so I wouldn't be surprised if we get more games like BoTW and ALBW.
 

Sari

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After many years, I've been able to play Wind Waker again via the HD remake. I think it's probably my favorite Zelda due to the great feel of exploration.

With that being said, I never found sailing the Great Ocean boring. In fact, I honestly think its better than running around Hyrule field in OoT or Termina in MM. There's a special feeling when I'm sailing to an unknown island or fearing of a possible giant octo that no other Zelda game has ever captured.

----------

I still don't understand why people hate ORAS so much, I personally thought it was one of the best in the series.
I love both the original gen III games as well as ORAS, but for me (and most likely everyone else) the biggest problem with ORAS was its lack of post-game content. Emerald had the Battle Frontier while ORAS just had a copy-and-pasted Battle Resort from X/Y. Sure the original R/S didn't have the BF, but neither did Gold/Silver yet they got their own BF in their remakes (sure it was copied from Platinum but it was still great to have). The Delta episode was ok, but I'd gladly trade it for the Battle Frontier any day.

The only post-game I can remember in ORAS was catching the crap ton of legendaries. Everything else (bases, battle tower-like battles, etc.) was done better in Emerald, unless I'm forgetting something important. Do not get me wrong, I absolutely loved ORAS as well, but there definitely should have been more post-game content (something that X/Y suffered with as well).

----------

On the topic of Pokemon, I just want to say that I can't stand when games hold your hand all the way until the end. While playing Sun, it feels like every time I take a step I'm forced to listen to characters talk for five minutes. I'm not that far into the game (I'm about to leave the first island) so I don't know if it gets any better, but from what I've played the hand-holding in this game is just ridiculous.
 

FamilyTeam

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On the topic of Pokemon, I just want to say that I can't stand when games hold your hand all the way until the end. While playing Sun, it feels like every time I take a step I'm forced to listen to characters talk for five minutes. I'm not that far into the game (I'm about to leave the first island) so I don't know if it gets any better, but from what I've played the hand-holding in this game is just ridiculous.
I've noticed that they tried to market the Gen 5 games to older audiences, but for whatever reason with Gen 6 they started trying to market the entire series towards really young children. Just looking at Gen 7's anime and all the complaints about hand-holding this gen is making me think Game Freak is trying to market Pokemon towards literal babies by this point and giving actual zero ****s if this is insulting anyone's inteligence.
Kids are easy to entertain and maybe not all that smart but they're not stupid. When I was a child myself I had to figure out how to play every single game I had on my own if I wanted to play them, and they were all on a language I didn't understand (English or even Japanese), so if I could figure out how to play stuff on my own, why can't other children? Or do people really just give up on a game if they don't immediatly understand it? Is this what not being poor does to you?
 

finalark

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I've noticed that they tried to market the Gen 5 games to older audiences, but for whatever reason with Gen 6 they started trying to market the entire series towards really young children.

Kids are easy to entertain and maybe not all that smart but they're not stupid. When I was a child myself I had to figure out how to play every single game I had on my own if I wanted to play them, and they were all on a language I didn't understand (English or even Japanese), so if I could figure out how to play stuff on my own, why can't other children? Or do people really just give up on a game if they don't immediatly understand it? Is this what not being poor does to you?
I think Game Freak trying to market Pokemon to very young children has a lot to do with Youkai Watch. As far as I know, that series is primarily targeted at young kids and is currently kicking Pokemon's ass in Japan (although this might have changed with SM). I think Game Freak felt like they went too far in the other direction with B/W and are trying to get the younger audiences back on board.

I'm not going to shake my cane and say that my generation is better or smarter than kids are these days, because by god did I like stupid ****. That being said, I think a lot of kid's games these days have a lot more hand holding than before to try and keep kids interested and engaged. Its not like the old days where you probably had one console, three games and whatever you could borrow from your friends. These days everyone has so much access to so many different forms of entertainment that kids can't be expected to sit down with one game for months on end without jumping to something new.

On an unrelated note, if you were poor how did you even get your hands on imported games in what I assume was the late 90s/early 2000s?
 

FamilyTeam

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On an unrelated note, if you were poor how did you even get your hands on imported games in what I assume was the late 90s/early 2000s?
Poor is an exaggeration, it was more like very low end of middle class.
When I was 3-4 ('02, '03) I just had my Sega Saturn (my dad had a Dreamcast he bought on release date, same one I use today, with just Shenmue and SA1 and 2, but he wouldn't let me touch it) a lightgun for it and a region converter cartridge, all bought way back in '95 and I probably only had less than a dozen games, 3/4 were barely functioning counterfeits and half of the games were in Japanese. We didn't exactly have money to buy more games, and even with we had, it was 20-bloody-03, no stores were selling Saturn games by that point, even counterfeits.
So it was take it or leave it with those games. It was either "understand how you play this stuff even though you don't even know how to read your mother language or tough ****, you have no games".
We didn't really start having more than a couple of games per console until my dad switched to night shift and got a big raise. Then he was able to start buying a ton of Dreamcast games, he got a PS2, an Xbox...
and I was still stuck with just my Sega Saturn so even though we were middle class now the situation didn't change for me at all, we never get any more Saturn games :p Atleast not until muuuuuuch later.
 

FallenHero

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I feel like Pokemon could REALLY benefit from having a lot more side quests/quest lines with their own side stories within them. Now I don't mean anything like having a whole list of side quests like in FF15 or something, but more along the lines of Majora's Mask, but the side quests don't take up the majority of the game. They could link catching legendary pokemon that are not a part of the main quest this way instead of just putting a legendary pokemon sitting at the end of some cave for seemingly no reason.

I love both the original gen III games as well as ORAS, but for me (and most likely everyone else) the biggest problem with ORAS was its lack of post-game content. Emerald had the Battle Frontier while ORAS just had a copy-and-pasted Battle Resort from X/Y. Sure the original R/S didn't have the BF, but neither did Gold/Silver yet they got their own BF in their remakes (sure it was copied from Platinum but it was still great to have). The Delta episode was ok, but I'd gladly trade it for the Battle Frontier any day.

The only post-game I can remember in ORAS was catching the crap ton of legendaries. Everything else (bases, battle tower-like battles, etc.) was done better in Emerald, unless I'm forgetting something important. Do not get me wrong, I absolutely loved ORAS as well, but there definitely should have been more post-game content (something that X/Y suffered with as well).
The Delta Episode and having all of those legendary pokemon to catch in the post game left me satisfied most likely, because it was just more than what X and Y had and I pretty much forgot most of what the post game was like in the Gen 5 games other than a few key things like not fighting Alder until the post game and doing the stuff having to do with Colress or whatever his name was (the guy in Team Plasma that was some kind of scientist who turned out to be a good guy).

Also, if they ever bring back the Battle Frontier, they should definitely add in new areas. I really want the pokemon world tournament from B2/W2 to return as well, but they should add in multiplayer features to it so that players can host online and local tournaments with other players.

I think Game Freak felt like they went too far in the other direction with B/W and are trying to get the younger audiences back on board.
Which is strange, because I remember a lot of people praising Gen 5 for appealing to older audiences, even the people who hated everything else about Gen 5.

Or do people really just give up on a game if they don't immediatly understand it?
My little brother is exactly like this and he is only 3 years younger than me :/ I remember trying to get him to play Dark Souls 3 and he gave up after he died to the first boss once. Unfortunately a lot of gamers within the ages of about 14 and below can't stay interested in games if the game isn't really simple to understand. A lot of kids don't care about how to figure out a strategy to beat challenging parts of a game, or learning how to time attacks. I remember back when I was in middle school when I would battle against other kids and I would notice the people in my grade would use more strategy in the battles, but the people in the grade just below us mostly were the types to use a full team of legendary pokemon with nothing but the highest damage moves, so we never played against them since there was no challenge when we played against them.
 
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Rashyboy05

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I still don't understand why people hate ORAS so much, I personally thought it was one of the best in the series.
I don't think ORAS is the among the best in the series (Although, my hate for Hoenn probably didn't help). I think its rather underwhelming as a remake. Not remaking the Battle Frontier and use the Battle Chateau instead is one of the reasons why ORAS get so much hate.

I do think Zinnia and the Delta Episode was one of the best parts of ORAS imo.

I feel like Pokemon could REALLY benefit from having a lot more side quests/quest lines with their own side stories within them.
Technically, Sun and Moon does have some side quests but they're only "catch x pokemon and I'll reward you money".

The only thing that actually counts as a side quest with a plot in the Pokemon games are the "Looker missions" in the postgames of most current Pokemon games.
 

FallenHero

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Not remaking the Battle Frontier and use the Battle Chateau instead is one of the reasons why ORAS get so much hate.
I personally don't care enough about the post game for it to effect my opinion on a Pokemon game that much. The post game is an important thing to me, but I felt like ORAS had enough to it to make it a good remake. I could never beat Ruby after playing the games past Gen 4, I can't really pinpoint why, but I wouldn't be surprised if I would have the same problems trying to playthrough Gen 1 or 2. The best thing about ORAS for me was the main story and the multiplayer (the return of move tutors opened up a lot of pokemon added in X/Y that I loved using in singleplayer to being useful in multiplayer, such as Pangoro hwo is my favorite Gen 6 pokemon).
 

FamilyTeam

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If Smash 4 was never patched and it didn't have Nintendo characters in it/brand recognition, it would've panned and forgotten for sure.
I still refuse to believe how a game that is still 70% Brawl took 3-4 years to develop only to have it come out like it did.
"Nintendo never releases incomplete games", Nintendo fanboys say. Yes, Smash 4 1.0.0 felt like such a complete game.
 

Schnee117

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"Nintendo never releases incomplete games", Nintendo fanboys say. Yes, Smash 4 1.0.0 felt like such a complete game.
Splatoon is an even better argument for that.
It was absolutely barebones at launch with a rubbish single player and hardly any maps.
Weekly updates filled in the content that was missing.

Same thing happened with Halo 5 except it had the standard amount of maps at launch and the SP at least had some actual flow to it with proper level design. Yes whilst the post launch support was great (aside from most of the maps added being remixes/forge maps), most of it was stuff that should have been in at launch like Forge, BTB, Infection and Grifball among other things. If you take those out there's really only the firefight update (ie the one thing that wasn't promised until enough people asked for it).

 

FallenHero

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If Smash 4 was never patched and it didn't have Nintendo characters in it/brand recognition, it would've panned and forgotten for sure.
I still refuse to believe how a game that is still 70% Brawl took 3-4 years to develop only to have it come out like it did.
"Nintendo never releases incomplete games", Nintendo fanboys say. Yes, Smash 4 1.0.0 felt like such a complete game.
I never felt that Smash 4 was a incomplete game, but it did feel like it was just one step forward for the core gameplay and three steps backward for single player. Not to say that the single player modes are bad (except smash tour is just bad), but not including any kind of mode like the subspace emissary was really disappointing for me. Smash Run is great, but you can't play it in the Wii U version and there is no online multiplayer for it or ANY of the single player modes.

Another thing that felt really disappointing about Smash 4 is how unrewarding and uninteresting it is to unlock every character. One of my favorite things about Brawl and the subspace emissary was how every character had their own cool introduction where you get to play as them for the first time and then you unlock them to play in the other modes as well, or finding characters like Wolf and Toon Link in hidden areas before you get to fight and unlock them. It was a huge step up from Melee where you would have to do something like play 900 matches to unlock G&W. It probably took me about a month to unlock all of the characters in Brawl back when I was like 10 or 11 years old, but with Smash 4 3DS I had unlocked every character by the second day of just having the game. Smash 4 also gave us way too many playable characters we didn't need to unlock at all, I remember Shulk and Megaman were two of the characters almost everyone was excited to play as, but it kind of took away from the feeling of finally being able to play the new character you've been waiting to use since they were announced and you can just pick them as soon as you play the game for the first time. Finally unlocking Mewtwo in Melee felt so satisfying when beforehand I could only play as him when I would go to friend's house where they had him unlocked.

Another major issue I have with Smash 4 is that there is absolutely no reason Lucas and Wolf should not have been in the game from release. I can understand why Snake wouldn't come back, but all they did with Lucas was just make a new character model and change up the properties of his moves while everything else was copy and pasted from Brawl, just like how most of the game is just kind of copy and pasted from Brawl with slight changes here and there, so I can't imagine the reason Wolf was never in the game from release.

I have an issue with every single DLC character except for Ryu. Three out of the seven DLC characters were not new characters and two of those characters (Lucas and Mewtwo) are pretty much just copy and pasted from the games they were in previously, so Roy is the only one out of the three who got some things changed just so that we can't say there are two clones of Marth, instead we got 1.5 Marth clones. The very least they could have done was make the old characters returning as DLC cost less then the DLC characters that were newcomers. Corrin was a character nobody wanted, and I still don't believe for a second Bayonetta was the most voted ballot character worldwide out of all the "realizable" characters. There should have been AT LEAST two ballot characters who ended up as DLC. It is ridiculous that Cloud was literally designed to be brain dead easy to use on purpose. Also 7 DLC characters is just a weird number, they should have had one more to make the number even.

The last thing that really bothers me about Smash 4 in comparison to previous games is that trophy descriptions in the older games are a lot better than the ones in Smash 4. I really enjoyed reading trophy descriptions in Brawl, but in Smash 4 they are nowhere near as descriptive and something about the way they are written seems to be missing.
 
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FamilyTeam

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The last thing that really bothers me about Smash 4 in comparison to previous games is that trophy descriptions in the older games are a lot better than the ones in Smash 4. I really enjoyed reading trophy descriptions in Brawl, but in Smash 4 they are nowhere near as descriptive and something about the way they are written seems to be missing.
Instead of being some 2-3 paragraphs talking about the character/object and what they do and where they are from, now they're just a single barely informative paragraph that feels like it was written with the mentality of "kids these days probably thin this is cool".
 

lady_sky skipper

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While Luigi is in the shadow of his older brother Mario and deserved the Year of Luigi he's not a neglected Nintendo characters unlike Sky Skipper, all four instructors from the SNES Pilotwings, Sheriff, Lip, and the pilots from Pilotwings 64.
 
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