Well, there is a new thread that will be CONSISTENTLY UPDATED(I hope), so go there.

[smashmaniac2008]

ohh...... that's depressing....... **** YOU SAKURAI!!!!

 

[illinialex24]

But you could do codes to edit him and the like.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

But you could do codes to edit him and the like.

Welll sure, but none of Lucario's moves are really similar to Mewtwo's. So, it will just be a revamped Lucario :/

 

[smashmaniac2008]

^ i guess you're right...oh well i guess i can wait 2 years for SSB4

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Or you could just play Melee

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I've read through this thread, and I don't entirely understand something. I'd like to ask a question, as honest inquiry (I'm open to the idea of Pichu being in Brawl+):

What does, or should, Pichu bring to the game that makes it interesting? What is the primary mechanic/motif Pichu represents? For example, Roy's mechanic can be explained as "Like Marth, but he gives up killing range with the lethal tippers in return for space-controlling tippers, and uses the mid-section of his blade to kill instead."

Can you give me a quick summary of what the proposed Pichu would do, what its flavor would be? Not specific Melee-to-Brawl changes, but "Why Pichu matters in Brawl+." I have to stress this is honest inquiry, I truly do want to hear an answer to this; I'm not against Pichu's inclusion out of hand.

 

[5ive]

Second post.

 

[Rudra]

^ Well, for the most part, I think that Pichu is like Pikachu except that she loses KO potential (aside from FSmash) for increased combo potential and damage output.

Spoiler

If my idea for ATJ stun is taken into account, she'd also have an addition of stunning her opponents for more setups over Pikachu.

Now, I have another question: If Thunder's bolt is supposed to be a weak spike, what would it's base do? Will it keep Pika's trajectory too? (Because I could also imagine this part of Thunder stunning the opponent, but I wont mind it staying the same or perhaps taking Melee Pichu's vertical trajectory. I would also wonder if the bolt would drag the opponent into the base which leads to a possible edgeguard at mid percentage)

Nevermind. lol

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Ahh. My apologies. I missed the second to last paragraph there it seems; you envision Pichu as a combo-builder/damage-builder, compared to Pikachu being a 'hit/kill' type?

 

[Deleted member]

How about making Pichu able to fire thunder jolts (hate that name) in quick succession? It'd be balanced out by the fact that it hurts itself every time it fires one.

 

[Shell]

Thunder jolt is already a more than spammable projectile. The self damage would have to be pretty significant to balance out making it any more spammable, which could easily take it right over into not being worth it. It just seems tricky to balance to me. Also annoying as **** to play against.

 

[Deleted member]

Thunder jolt is already a more than spammable projectile. The self damage would have to be pretty significant to balance out making it any more spammable, which could easily take it right over into not being worth it. It just seems tricky to balance to me. Also annoying as **** to play against.

How about 2% self damage? That seems fair to me, or maybe instead of making them more spammable, they could damage more than Pikachu's, and maybe have some knockback growth.

 

[jalued]

tbh pikachu is already based around killing anyway. pikachu has serious probs killing, i mean all he has is thunder, dsmash (which can be DI'ed out out), upsmash and nair (which needs higher %). i dont think pichu should be more combo based, i think that is the wrong way to go. havng said that, i dont really know which way u could go, as pikachu is a pretty mid placed in terms of speed and power, so pichu might just be far too much of a clone unless someone can think of something new. ill keep thinking


thought:

think about pichu, hes rediculously small, smaller than olimar (im thinking so small he can run under falcos lasers ). now a character like that should focus on weaving in and out of people , so why not give him a reverse weaker version of lucarios aura?

say that he still hurts himself, maybe 1-2% every electrical attack, and at 0% pichu can kill anyone at 50% with a fsmash,upsmash at centre of FD. however once pichu is at 50%, the same attacsk would say only kill people at 100%, and at 100% damage would only kill those at 150% etc etc (my scale isnt meant to be accurate, just an example)

would definatly make him very unique character, and very strategic

 

[5ive]

Wrong. Pikachu actually has A LOT of killing options. Even more so than many of the characters you deem to be top tier. BTW, Pikachu is ALSO combo oriented. :/
Sorry to pick on you jalued, but ignorance grinds my gears v_v.
Edit: Not to mention you can combo into an usmash or usmash>thunder or fsmash.

Weaving? Pichu's playstyle was pretty similar to Pikachu's anyways. Why change the dynamics of Pichu's style by making him primarily a weaving character (loljigz). Have you even read the second post? <_< With all due respect, the ideas me and Storm have, seem to make a lot of sense, while retaining the aspect that Pichu had in Melee. Taking away the killing options (which Pikachu had) balances out the optimized combo options Pichu gained. May I also add that Pikachu's combo game already *****, and an optimized version of that is... ****.

 

[jalued]

Wrong. Pikachu actually has A LOT of killing options. Even more so than many of the characters you deem to be top tier. BTW, Pikachu is ALSO combo oriented. :/
Sorry to pick on you jalued, but ignorance grinds my gears v_v.
Edit: Not to mention you can combo into an usmash or usmash>thunder or fsmash.

Weaving? Pichu's playstyle was pretty similar to Pikachu's anyways. Why change the dynamics of Pichu's style by making him primarily a weaving character (loljigz). Have you even read the second post? <_< With all due respect, the ideas me and Storm have, seem to make a lot of sense, while retaining the aspect that Pichu had in Melee. Taking away the killing options (which Pikachu had) balances out the optimized combo options Pichu gained. May I also add that Pikachu's combo game already *****, and an optimized version of that is... ****.

yeah i know that pikachu has alot of setup kill moves, and that he is also a very good combo character. i just feel that pichu is in real danger of being too similer to pika (apart from the self harm). just think we need to think more outside the box, cause melee pichu was bottom 2 for both PAL and NTSC melee. just think pichu needs some originality, thats all

and its not ignorance, i just feel that against a good opponenet, the pika will generally have a harder time killing than most of the cast

 

[Slashy]

Let's make her crawling speed faster.

 

[5ive]

Weaving? Pichu's playstyle was pretty similar to Pikachu's anyways. Why change the dynamics of Pichu's style by making him primarily a weaving character (loljigz). Have you even read the second post? <_< With all due respect, the ideas me and Storm have, seem to make a lot of sense, while retaining the aspect that Pichu had in Melee. Taking away the killing options (which Pikachu had) balances out the optimized combo options Pichu gained. May I also add that Pikachu's combo game already *****, and an optimized version of that is... ****.

lol

pikachu has serious probs killing

i just feel that against a good opponenet, the pika will generally have a harder time killing than most of the cast

These statements are not only dramatically different, but they are pretty much contradicting. If you really meant the latter, you would of said that in the first place. Not to mention that the latter can be said for pretty much every character. It's circumstantial if you ask me.

 

[jalued]

lol




These statements are not only dramatically different, but they are pretty much contradicting. If you really meant the latter, you would of said that in the first place. Not to mention that the latter can be said for pretty much every character. It's circumstantial if you ask me.

haha i meant the latter. basically, im a **** pika, so am rubbish at setting up, hence mypikais **** at killing but a pro pika will still have a harder time than most characters to set up for a kill against a good DIing opponent.

so no to reverse lucario effect?

 

[5ive]

haha i meant the latter. basically, im a **** pika, so am rubbish at setting up, hence mypikais **** at killing but a pro pika will still have a harder time than most characters to set up for a kill against a good DIing opponent.

so no to reverse lucario effect?

Everything you say can be said for every character. Obviously a better opponent means a harder time setting up things. For Pikachu, that is probably the least of his worries. And if you're a "****" Pikachu, who are you to speak for the pro Pikas?

By the way, I didn't ask you if you meant the latter. I was just implying how it was funny that you changed your statement dramatically. And I don't think you even read the second post yet.

We're getting a little off topic, so I guess I'll stop responding to you unless I feel I have to.

 

[Deleted member]

so no to reverse lucario effect?

Doesn't really sound too good to me. Hell, it sounds something like a nerf.

 

[jalued]

ok then i have a new thought. what about when ever pichu uses thunder (downB) and get hit with it, that he gets a electric boost on all electric attacks for the next say 4 electric attacks, maybe like first attack after charge is at 200% damage and knockback (as well as self harm), then 180%,160%... for example

could have an electric animation around him when hes charged. would also add an element of planning and skill, as the opponent would be warey of electric attacks being used, but could be made so that this is the only way pichu can kill below say 120%. then she would be different to pika, and could really focus on combos

maybe make thunder have alot less knockback and damage, just to even it out

and yah i have read the second post lol, i just think pichu should be special, not just a melee remake.

hope this is possible...

 

[smashmaniac2008]

that would be rather hard to do

 

[jalued]

that would be rather hard to do

yeah i know, but would be really unique, and really make pichu a seperate character. its not like theres a time limit on this

 

[Deleted member]

ok then i have a new thought. what about when ever pichu uses thunder (downB) and get hit with it, that he gets a electric boost on all electric attacks for the next say 4 electric attacks, maybe like first attack after charge is at 200% damage and knockback (as well as self harm), then 180%,160%... for example

could have an electric animation around him when hes charged. would also add an element of planning and skill, as the opponent would be warey of electric attacks being used, but could be made so that this is the only way pichu can kill below say 120%. then she would be different to pika, and could really focus on combos

maybe make thunder have alot less knockback and damage, just to even it out

and yah i have read the second post lol, i just think pichu should be special, not just a melee remake.

hope this is possible...

Yeah, I said the same thing on IRC, and to even it out, it should give 10% or something really big like that to Pichu. Of, course, if the user doesn't want the extra damage and knockback, he can just dodge the thunder.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Wait... what?

Shouldn't they work on getting Pichu INTO Brawl+ first? (Or has this been done already somehow?)

 

[jalued]

Yeah, I said the same thing on IRC, and to even it out, it should give 10% or something really big like that to Pichu. Of, course, if the user doesn't want the extra damage and knockback, he can just dodge the thunder.

IRC? and yeah they can do a running downB, which wont let them get hit with it, so no powerup. and this has already been done??? YAY

and its more a process of making pichu, then balancing him enough that people are happy to accept him into brawl+

 

[5ive]

ok then i have a new thought. what about when ever pichu uses thunder (downB) and get hit with it, that he gets a electric boost on all electric attacks for the next say 4 electric attacks, maybe like first attack after charge is at 200% damage and knockback (as well as self harm), then 180%,160%... for example

could have an electric animation around him when hes charged. would also add an element of planning and skill, as the opponent would be warey of electric attacks being used, but could be made so that this is the only way pichu can kill below say 120%. then she would be different to pika, and could really focus on combos

maybe make thunder have alot less knockback and damage, just to even it out

and yah i have read the second post lol, i just think pichu should be special, not just a melee remake.

hope this is possible...

Wow jalued, that idea is nothing near sensible or well thought out. It's not worth to go through all that trouble just to make some gimmicky attribute.

And no, you didn't read the second post because if you did, you would see that it's not a Melee remake at all.

/gettingonmynerves

 

[jalued]

Wow jalued, that idea is nothing near sensible or well thought out. It's not worth to go through all that trouble just to make some gimmicky attribute.

And no, you didn't read the second post because if you did, you would see that it's not a Melee remake at all.

/gettingonmynerves

i saw that u had replied and u knwo waht first went through my head: hes going to making some moany unproductive twatty comment, and lo and behold, look a twatty comment. u know what, **** pichu, i dont care anymore. ur just being stubborn about this, pichu shouldnt be like pika at all, but ur just so god dam ****ing conservative that u just brush off any idea rather than at least considering it or alering it slightly so that it would work

****..

 

[5ive]

I don't brush off just any idea, just idea's that don't make a lot of sense. Your idea is kind of far fetched, and pretty much promotes spamming thunder? I know, I know, there's always that "self damage" part of it, but to be honest, that won't stop this from being overused. Not to mention that this is really pretty much gimmicky. As gimmicky as a smash ball, and you know how that will turn out.

There's no need to take this personally, so... calm down? Calling me a **** surely does not solve anything.

There's nothing wrong with making Pichu like Pikachu. That's why they're called clone characters. I mean, look at Roy or Doc; they aren't dramatically different, but they have attributes that separate him from their respective characters.

 

[jalued]

I don't brush off just any idea, just idea's that don't make a lot of sense. Your idea is kind of far fetched, and pretty much promotes spamming thunder? I know, I know, there's always that "self damage" part of it, but to be honest, that won't stop this from being overused. Not to mention that this is really pretty much gimmicky. As gimmicky as a smash ball, and you know how that will turn out.

There's no need to take this personally, so... calm down? Calling me a **** surely does not solve anything.

There's nothing wrong with making Pichu like Pikachu. That's why they're called clone characters. I mean, look at Roy or Doc; they aren't dramatically different, but they have attributes that separate him from their respective characters.

i had already thought of that. if u made the thunder increase to say 200%, but made everything else combo oriented, then pichu would need thunder to kill, but with it would not be able to combo. so spamming thunder would not help, as it would result in a huge lack of combo potential (for electric moves). also so as to reduce spamming you could drastically reduce the knockback of thunder, even make it 0, so that pichu would be helpless while he charges.

would make pichu a seriously combo character that eitehr needs to gimp, or knock opponenet offstage so she has time to charge for a kill. maybe make it next 10 moves if she is really that weak at killing without, maybe going 200%,190%,180% etc etc

and yeah ur right, sorry bout that

 

[Roxas215]

ok then i have a new thought. what about when ever pichu uses thunder (downB) and get hit with it, that he gets a electric boost on all electric attacks for the next say 4 electric attacks, maybe like first attack after charge is at 200% damage and knockback (as well as self harm), then 180%,160%... for example

could have an electric animation around him when hes charged. would also add an element of planning and skill, as the opponent would be warey of electric attacks being used, but could be made so that this is the only way pichu can kill below say 120%. then she would be different to pika, and could really focus on combos

maybe make thunder have alot less knockback and damage, just to even it out

and yah i have read the second post lol, i just think pichu should be special, not just a melee remake.

hope this is possible...

It's a neat thought but not thought out well(if that makes sense lol) Concept is cool but look exactly at what your asking of the coders. Plus even with her self damage this idea is basically promoting spamming thunder. Just wouldn't work well imo.


I do agree on making her crawling speed faster. Pika is the only char where i actually use crawling.

 

[jalued]

It's a neat thought but not thought out well(if that makes sense lol) Concept is cool but look exactly at what your asking of the coders. Plus even with her self damage this idea is basically promoting spamming thunder. Just wouldn't work well imo.


I do agree on making her crawling speed faster. Pika is the only char where i actually use crawling.

is it possible to make the thunder hitbox on pika (when it hits him) = 0? as in, instead of it hitting out it is absorbed by pichu, then u can make the rest of his thunder do damage. hence it wouldnt act as a defense for pichu when hes "charging" and would have to be used carefully. would also not mean it can be used as a kill move.

just really like this idea and am sure we can make it work

 

[5ive]

You still aren't making things clear.

thunder increase to say 200%

Huh?

This is what I'm getting:
If the thunder hits Pikachu (what I call a base hit thunder), this charges Pikachu's electric attacks and makes them stronger, but un-combo able. You will need these super charged electric attacks to kill, but after the thunder charge, you will only have 4 chances to use these attacks.

When you aren't charged, the attacks are normal, and you will be able to combo again.

Sounds pretty unique, but far fetched to me. Again, you're probably putting coders to hell with this. This is a little TOO unique. As I've said so many times, we're making clone characters. We aren't making dramatically different movesets, but alterations from the original. Roy and Doc were both clones, and in Brawl+, they still are. They just vary a bit more from their Melee counterparts. With your changes, we might as well call him Electrobuzz and make his fsmash a smashball.

Of course, this idea does make some sense. But do you think people would actually go through this? In vBrawl, Shiek has trouble killing, no doubt. From my experience, people uncommonly (Take this with a grain of salt. I'm unfamiliar with this stuff) switch to Zelda to kill. This is kind what is going on with Pichu; I don't think people will take well to this concept.

Of course, this is all up to Storm. He'll pick the ideas he wants, as this is his project. Who am I to say people will like this concept. It's just my opinion.

Again, you have to explain this stuff more clearly. Maybe with some enhanced grammar or with periods or something (inb4 grammar Nazi) Maybe I missed something, just hit me up if you have something else to say.

 

[Rudra]

In vBrawl, Shiek has trouble killing, no doubt. From my experience, people uncommonly (Take this with a grain of salt. I'm unfamiliar with this stuff) switch to Zelda to kill.

Or Sheik could just attempt to edgeguard you to death (or go for an outright gimp) , which Pichu will probably have to do since she'll lack Pika's killing power.

 

[jalued]

yeah ur right my english isnt great

maybe if u made it the next say 9 times that you use an electric attack, so there is a bit more leway for mistakes from pichu. so as to balance it you "could" make pichu have one non electrical attack (maybe upsmash) that can kill at reasonable percentage.

yeah i do understand that it would be alot of work, but i dont really think that we should be set on the mindset that pichu,doc,roy,dark samus etc are clones and the limits that makes for the clone character.

would just like the clones to be something unique about them, or a mixture of a few characters (like doc having weegees downB, roy having ikes B etc etc).

my main reasoning for this idea though: it fits perfectly with the pokemon, its something that could have been made by nintendo for pikachu

basically, i just feel that clone characters should be thought of as the original, but with different properties, let it be angle of projectile, properties of attacks (ice,fire), gravity,shorthop values etc. but for properties of attacks why does it have to be limited to such basic changes? pichu will still look the same as pika, but will have a completely different play style

 

[superyoshi888]

Give Pichu a lazor and we'll call it a day.

 

[Wander]

Give Pichu a lazor and we'll call it a day.

I proposed we change all of Samus' button presses to her Final Smash, but no one listened ;_;.

 

[smashmaniac2008]

Is it possible to like just make pichu faster than pikachu?

 

[Wander]

Is it possible to like just make pichu faster than pikachu?

I know it's possible to remove lag and speed up frames on attacks, and I think it's possible to make running speed and aerial movement faster, but I think that's the extent of it.

 

[superyoshi888]

What's the aerial movement mod? I can't seem to find it anywhere. :l